Player run economy/Items/Tinkers/Weaponsmiths

[Radical21]

Seriously Rick, you are wasting your breath, even if your words were super logical he wouldn't agree,  he said it himself: Perception (or rather Deception in regards to f2p model)

[Rick Gentle]

You say that like I don't have enough breath to spare... 

[Frothy]

Here mouser, I'll make your post for you:

NO YOU'RE WRONG AND IF THE GAME DOESN'T DO EXACTLY WHAT I WANT IT TO DO IT WILL FAIL

[Rick Gentle]

I'll be honest with myself: I have that attitude about NOT including cash-shops, Frothy. I would have an extremely dark and doubtful attitude about the WODMMO's longevity if they put in a cash-shop with things like XP buffs or shortcuts. I haven't played any game that has such a cash-shop that either became extremely popular or has lasted for more than a few years with such a system. World of WarCraft doesn't have one; EVE Online doesn't have one; Star Wars Galaxies didn't have one (but they had a whole slew of other issues with the "Combat Enhancements"... *sigh*).
On the other hand, Dungeons and Dragons Online has one, but that game wasn't the most popular MMO to begin with; now the only people who play it are the buff-buyers and additional-content-unlockers, because the game and its players are... unwelcoming to anybody who isn't buying those things. Even I gave in and bought a bunch of upgrades for one of my characters...  but it turned out to be less than worthless because the game cheated me due to an erroneous ability description. Not only that, but I would've had to keep paying the subscription to unlock one more kind of class (and it's acknowledged as one of the most over-powered classes in D&D - the Monk). If they have a similar system for the WODMMO ("Unlock the "Blood Brothers" Bloodline, a fourth Discipline slot, and +50% Blood Points gain for only $15 a month!")... I'm sorry, but I'd have to drop that game like it was a rabid face-eating badger, and I would absolutely HATE to have to do that to a White Wolf product/World of Darkness product. It's one of my all-time favorite settings, but I think that such a system would completely ruin the game [for me]. I would also have serious doubts about any company that put such a practice into their game, making me less likely to buy any of their products in future.

[Radical21]

These games survive by the fact that nothing in their power mechanics hold any significance in that game world, any PvP content is reduced to Arena play and kicked to the curve so that less people care if some players are better than others because the game is too simple for that so they focus on easy to write crappy PvE story modules.

Star Trek Online is a prime example of that, I think its only as popular because fans are literally starved for new star trek content which the reboot movies do not provide. (Thanks to Jar Jar Abrams)

[Frothy]

I've been playing Neverwinter, a F2P game with a cash shop.
There are three forms of currency.

Gold
Astral Diamonds
Zen

Zen is the currency you pay money for.
You can buy Zen off of other players with Astral Diamonds.

Theoretically, you can get anything that anyone who buys Zen can get.
So far the items in the cash shop are non-game influencing things.
Mounts, different weapon/armour models, and that sort of thing.
Mounts are $40 USD currently.

There are some game influencing things you can get as well, but they're not directly related to the item shop.
Respeccing your talents costs $6
More bank space is $6
More backpack space is $6

I don't really have a problem with this.
These are just things that provide convenience(Barring talent respecs, but if you do some research you can find out what talents are good or bad).

If the WoD had a cash shop like this, I wouldn't be bothered by it.

[Nosferatu Numbers Station]

As where I've been playing Everquest 2.  It's adopted Turbine's methods, LOTRO specifically, with tier membership and A LOT less restricted than it once was.  Indeed, less restricted than LOTRO in that you don't need to buy the expansions up until Chains of Eternity and the Age of discovery packs (the latter is convenience and not mandatory).

[Rick Gentle]

Mounts are $40 USD currently.

That's the OTHER thing about cash-shops... they never know how to properly, realistically PRICE the damn things! I was looking at the special pre-order pack on Perfect World's site, and I just shoot my head at the ridiculous prices they were asking. I think it went up to $100 for a mount, a pet, and some Astral Diamonds. Basically, you turn your character into Drizzt Do'Urden for two or three times what the game box costs.

EDIT
SHOOK my head... Though now that I think of it, maybe it was just a Freudian slip... 

The ONE good thing about ZEN and Perfect World's system for it is that you can actually earn ZEN "for free" by going to their site and filling out some sponsored surveys. That's how I've gotten all my ZEN for Blacklight: Retribution. If there were free ways to earn the company currency like this... It wouldn't turn out as badly as other cash-shops. It's still a cheap move, but in this case you're only trading time for a chance at a tiny amount of company currency.

[Frothy]

It's $40 for a "unique" mount, you can get a standard one for 5 gold.
I don't mind them charging idiots $40 for to be a special snowflake.

[Nosferatu Numbers Station]

EQ2's mounts are like 10-20 bucks, ground and air. 

Aion's wing skins are like 5 bucks but the actual wings you can get in-game (good luck finding a group for those though) for like 50 bucks.  Swear one was higher than that.

Speaking of which, get this:  4000 ncoin for a character transfer to another server.  4000 ncoin = 50 bucks.  50 FUCKING BUCKS.  God damn NCsoft.

[Rick Gentle]

Off-topic: How's the rest of Neverwinter? I was hoping for another massively single-player game, but the trend seems to be to turn EVERYTHING into an MMO nowadays...
The Elder Scrolls Online? Really? Really? I hear they're working on Fallout Online, too! Ye gods, people!

[Radical21]

Off-topic: How's the rest of Neverwinter? I was hoping for another massively single-player game, but the trend seems to be to turn EVERYTHING into an MMO nowadays...
The Elder Scrolls Online? Really? Really? I hear they're working on Fallout Online, too! Ye gods, people!

Just cause its an MMO doesn't mean you play it with other players, 90% of the content is content that players engage in by themselves and its nothing fancy compared to a real single-player game.

[Nosferatu Numbers Station]

I thought fallout online hit the bucket after interplay got said bucket slammed into their faces...and the bucket was full of horse shit.  Pretty sure Bethesda merely wanted the rights just so they can cover their bases.

As for ESO, I heard you start the game killing rats.  Cliche anyone?  Hopefully they make a more suitable introduction than killing rats in some old woman's basement, unless it's a twist to it like oblivion since it wasn't killing rats but killing the predators killing said rats.  I can see it working, but the sad thing is I'm betting it's going to be another 'WoW killer'.  I'm getting tired of those 2 words put together, and the former of them even more.

[Rick Gentle]

That's why I don't like the trend to turn everything into an MMO. Why not just make more massively single-player games like the normal Elder Scrolls or a sequel to Bloodlines?? Ship out some DLC packs like Saints Row III does, or expansion content like for Skyrim and Fallout: New Vegas and you can still make plenty of money!  A lot of the time I've spent in MMOs has been alone; the times I've grouped up with people is usually only because I HAVE to, not because I want to. The player doesn't lose much in a massively single-player game.
It's all cheap hax, man. Cheap hax.

[Nosferatu Numbers Station]

Likely because devs want to get in with the times, unaware that if there are too many MMOs out there your not likely to get a return investment.  Sure you can steal away players from other MMOs if you do a good job at attracting them, but an MMO is like a trend as where a single player game is more of an essential part of video gaming.  MMOs practically feel like single player games ever since they started resorting to group finders.  You skip the social aspect when you do that, and that means the game isn't as social and your friends list is that much emptier (meanwhile your ignore list has probably increased depending on whether the group finder is cross server or not).

So yeah, a bloodlines sequel or another elder scrolls single player with a mulitplayer function that is more akin to inviting another player over instead of being in a world full of them would be a better choice.

Though that last idea would be too conflicting now that I think about it, think of all those errors that would pop up because one person has a mod the other does not.  All those exclamation points, god damn.