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Author Topic: Good news regarding WoD Online!  (Read 12772 times)

Offline Radical21

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Re: Good news regarding WoD Online!
« Reply #60 on: April 20, 2014, 01:15:29 AM »
There is a problem with progression design: its not only caps , its also diversity and trying to make different progressions significantly effective while remaining different.
Otherwise you end up with everyone being godlike but cosmetic aside packing the same stuff.

Its why they tried the whole racial potency in Elder scrolls that is meant to bring interest to race selection and progression but like you mention it can backfire if overdone

 In WoD you don't have absolute best clan for something(except maybe Brujah)  because direct combat is not the center of the game, hence there are multiple avenues of progression that do not necessarily have to do with raw ability power: if that would have translated to game , who knows but I think that approach is more fun because it means there is diversity/personality.

Progession cannot become infinite however, if you do that you end up with a game in which either progession is not that significant or a broken game of some players being god-like and the rest of the players at their mercy.
Even if you say that PVP doesn't matter, finding excitement in such a game is rough

Offline Valamyr

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Re: Good news regarding WoD Online!
« Reply #61 on: April 20, 2014, 03:23:56 PM »
Quote
Progession cannot become infinite however, if you do that you end up with a game in which either progession is not that significant or a broken game of some players being god-like and the rest of the players at their mercy. Even if you say that PVP doesn't matter, finding excitement in such a game is rough

It depends. The example I gave is Diablo 3, probably not your cup of tea, but it does technically have infinite progression in both 'paragon levels' and the chance to improve your gear; even if its really good you could roll a slightly better item. There's still a plateau of power though. The exponential rise in the XP curve makes it difficult to progress past a certain point, and eventually the odds of getting upgrades are very slim. Once you reach that peak, your power level will be very similar to someone who played twice as much, because gains become rare and small and far in-between. You hit a wall of sorts at the peak of the curve, but the progression is still technically possible and infinite. A few PVP MMOs toyed with infinite levels, like Shadowbane back in the day.

Now Diablo's pvp is laughable (just a small area where you can fight each other without consequences nor rewards), but I've messed around in it with clanmates who played far more than I and held my own fine despite the fact they played far more because we've all reached the 'wall'. Any of us could still swat a dozen average players who haven't like flies though who simply haven't put in the effort yet. And that's a component that's increasingly missing in MMOs. I like games that force players to put in some effort if they want to play in the big leagues. That doesn't mean a lowbie shouldn't be given a chance to participate in PvP, but committed players should play on a whole other level. If equal/high end power is basically served on a platter after a very short leveling game (ex. Guild Wars 1/2), you end up with identical characters, level capped and geared identically, brawling it out much like in a FPS.

ESO suffers from superfast leveling syndrome, we're all 50 already. But at least there's still progression going on in various ways mostly related to itemization. And there is one thing to really aspire to, the equivalent of being crowned Prince in our hypothetical WOD; Emperor status. While Emperor you are immensely powerful, and even after losing the crown, you retain permanent bonuses that only other former Emperors can aspire to, and since there'll be only a handful of people to ever commit enough to reach and hold such status, that's the kind of mechanic that I like. Sets the dedicated apart from the peasants.  :vampwink:

Offline Radical21

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Re: Good news regarding WoD Online!
« Reply #62 on: April 20, 2014, 08:06:29 PM »
The reason you play games like Diablo III(AKA Diablo: Casino edition) instead of games like Path of Exile for example, is still beyond me.
Shadowbane had the most unbalanced system I've seen in an MMO so infinite levels didn't help at all.
I'm not a grind-loving player so as someone interested in game design I ask myself if the idea of inifinite levels or levels is really such a good thing..

The concept of effort is somewhat vague since being bored while your character repeats the same action over and over is not exactly effort in my eyes even though it is painfully tedious and boring(and thus a part of the game I would skip without feeling guilty about).

Lets take DayZ on Zero Survival.net server : there are no levels but there is a big difference between a veteran and a newb : A veteran knows most of the places where the different types of loot spawns, he probably managed to build a base where he can secure vehicles,equipment and guns that are otherwise rare to find.
A newb starts with nothing and since in death characters drop all their stuff, the only way to really save gear is in either Vehicles or Tents or Stash(all storage  devices are destructable and lootable if found). Base building materials are rare so build a base is actually hard:Searching and find the rare materials , making a hidden storage in a place where other players won't find and loot and transporting the stuff to that hidden place where they could be saved is not easy either in most cases so i'd call that effort.
Securing a begginer's base is also difficult since its easier to break into.
At the  "Endgame" you have clan wars with sieges, raids on bases and trying to secure the four aircrafts.

Its true that a newb can find higher tier weapons or even the helicopter and use them but chances are he won't keep them for long due to the knowledge required to operate them and the space required to store them. 

The game has very limited content but I think it does a good job of keeping balance and being interesting without a leveling system.
The only problem is that after the "endgame" stage a player may end up at a point where there is not much to do aside from helping allies,  or trying to improve his record and infamy(to be the best on the server at something), I don't think levels would be a solution to that.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 08:54:05 PM by Radical21 »

Offline Leorgrium

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Re: Good news regarding WoD Online!
« Reply #63 on: May 02, 2014, 08:07:47 PM »
http://www.polygon.com/2014/5/2/5674352/World-of-darkness-cancellation-CCP-Fanfest

"We began with huge aspirations, wholly optimistic ones, which is often the case when you come from any success and you want to expand on that. And we’ve made many scoping [changes], changed direction and all that through the year, and the core experience has suffered for it, in a way. And it still had a relatively long way to go," CCP CEO Hilmar Veigar Pétursson told Polygon in an interview in Iceland during Fanfest 2014.

"And even though it is extremely difficult because the idea and the concept are terribly inspirational and powerful, we really had to be honest with ourselves. This is not trending towards what we were hoping or planning for in the beginning, and it’s better to stop now than to continue at this rate, at this pace, or making yet another change to the premise," he continued. "So, even though it was extremely difficult, this was the time where it’s OK, we have given it all we’ve got for now. Better to stop it, and company to go focus on the EVE universe."

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Offline Rick Gentle

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Re: Good news regarding WoD Online!
« Reply #64 on: May 02, 2014, 08:12:21 PM »
The WODMMO failed because they couldn't STOP focusing on the EVE Online universe... Starting up Valkyrie right in the middle of the WODMMO's development? Really?

CCP can make all the PR-acceptable excuses it wants: the fact remains that EVE Online players still have a game, and we don't.
Remember: It's not the size of your fangs that matters; it's what you stick them in.

Offline Valamyr

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Re: Good news regarding WoD Online!
« Reply #65 on: May 02, 2014, 10:38:57 PM »
I remember that morning when they announced DUST and many of us were expecting the announced to be WoD. If it had been, or if they'd just licensed an engine for ours too, we'd probably be playing it right now. Developing three games was too much for them. Trying to homebrew an engine too, forget it.

Offline Radical21

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Re: Good news regarding WoD Online!
« Reply #66 on: May 03, 2014, 04:56:06 AM »
The WODMMO failed because they couldn't STOP focusing on the EVE Online universe... Starting up Valkyrie right in the middle of the WODMMO's development? Really?

CCP can make all the PR-acceptable excuses it wants: the fact remains that EVE Online players still have a game, and we don't.

Get over it Rick, it has become obvious that if the WoD community wants a game we are going to have to make it ourselves. and its not going to be WoD exactly because CCP sits on the license but that's ok, there are plenty of similar supernatural IPs they don't own, so it lets us know how far we are allowed to go on similarity to WoD. (because Vampire Diaries, Tru:Blood and Supernatural would have gotten a CCP lawsuit by now if it was forbidden)