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Author Topic: Good news regarding WoD Online!  (Read 12773 times)


Offline Signothorn

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Re: Good news regarding WoD Online!
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2014, 05:39:32 PM »
Thanks for posting this. It must be a news release day for WOD, because this article also came out. Not trying to hijack the thread, they are basically the same article, only the RPS article has more detail, so I'm posting it in the same thread.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/02/14/ccp-taking-cues-from-dayz-rust-for-world-of-darkness/

Also, CCP CEO Hilmar P├ętursson responded to a tweet while he was in visiting the Atlanta office:

https://twitter.com/Sorrosyss/statuses/433875143480582144
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 05:45:27 PM by Signothorn »

Offline Lev Ivanov

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Re: Good news regarding WoD Online!
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2014, 07:44:15 PM »
"Hilmar Veigar:@Sorrosyss it looks stunning"
That's very... vague..

@ rockpapershotgun article:

Hilmar said that they laid off those people because a smaller team works better..
Usually a bigger team means progress will be faster, no?
"P├ętursson suggested that we can probably expect to see something at EVE Fanfest in May."
Let's hope that they DO show us something, we may be vampires but we don't like being kept in the dark for so long..

@ massively article:

These guys say that CCP "assured" that there will be a WoD presence at the fanfest in may.. this is getting very confusing.. who should we believe?
Sometimes it may be necessary listening to the silence.. it may tell much more..

Offline N30V3N0M

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Re: Good news regarding WoD Online!
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2014, 08:45:30 PM »
Interesting article.  In my opinion, CCP should look at Bloodlines for a source of inspiration as well.   :D  I've never played DayZ or Rust though.

Offline dbs

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Re: Good news regarding WoD Online!
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2014, 10:26:58 PM »
These guys say that CCP "assured" that there will be a WoD presence at the fanfest in may.. this is getting very confusing.. who should we believe?

It's just CCP being coy. I think it's pretty much confirmed we are getting a presentation of some sort again this year, but the question should rather be what we can expect to see instead. They seem to still be up in the air regarding a lot of the gameplay mechanics - Here's hoping they've made progress on the technology itself.

Offline Lev Ivanov

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Re: Good news regarding WoD Online!
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2014, 02:57:47 AM »
It's just CCP being coy. I think it's pretty much confirmed we are getting a presentation of some sort again this year, but the question should rather be what we can expect to see instead. They seem to still be up in the air regarding a lot of the gameplay mechanics - Here's hoping they've made progress on the technology itself.

If they do the same thing as last time(remember that video they only played for the people that were physically there?), everyone who is not there will have to relay on whatever somebody remembers of what was being shown on screen.
Sometimes it may be necessary listening to the silence.. it may tell much more..

Offline Rick Gentle

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Re: Good news regarding WoD Online!
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2014, 06:08:44 AM »
I'm okay with sandbox survival as long as it DOES NOT mean that everybody will be perma-death-enabled from the start and lose all their gear on death.
Some gear/money loss, sure. (Drop your currently-wielded weapon? Makes sense. "Pry it from their cold, dead fingers" and whatnot. But all my weapons, armor, gear, and ammunition? No thanks.) And it's always fun to punish those people who carry about $1,000,000 in cash on their person. (Drop 50% of your cash on death? Sure! THAT'S the real reason vampires cultivate bank accounts, friend.) Dropping gear and money on death would make it so that you have to hire an effective courier to haul your stuff around, instead of just any old schmoe transferring items between main and alt in your normal You Have To Declare For PvP MMO.
I don't think CCP is exactly worried about a tough learning/progress curve in their MMOs, but still... an open sandbox survival game is tough on the newbs. If they want a game that's going to see consistent growth down the years, then newbs need to have some advantage going for them, because the "First Generation" of vampires will quickly out-class any new character.

But games like DayZ are hard enough on players when you have more-or-less equal footing. I.e., all the players are human and all are subject to getting shot in the head. If they had a game exactly** like DayZ with mixed vampires and humans... Well, you better be a masochist to play a human. A patient and unambitious masochist.

**before you say it, no, I don't expect the World of Darknes to turn out anything EXACTLY like games like DayZ. That was a hypothetical situation, and should scale based on how similar the World of Darkness actually turns out to be.
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Offline Radical21

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Re: Good news regarding WoD Online!
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2014, 04:13:31 PM »
Rick sounds like you are too mild to play survival games.
I'm all for perma-death or at the very least losing all on death. The last thing I want is all sorts of people running in game feeling like they have nothing to lose...

To illustrate this lets take DayZ vanilla(bestselling game on steam btw) as an example vs DayZ Epoch variant :

In DayZ you lose all equipment and items when you die: If you are lucky and knowledable you can hide stashes and tents to stash your valuable gear so it won't be lost if you die (of course other players can steal from these so concealing them well enough and preventing other players from finding the tents/stash is the tricky part and even if you craft traps it doesn't always help)
Since the tools to build a tent or stashes are not that easy to come by and they are not 100% reliable most players are very careful not to die and in many cases prefer to avoid initiating risky combat unless they have a distinct advantage (and even then its not always a good idea because a newb with a crowbar can still be dangerous when cornered)

In DayZ Epoch the rules are slightly different: players can have an indestructable safe to stash stuff in, as well as lockable vehicles they can park in safezones, they can even build bases and protect them with keycode so the options to perserve and stockpile possessions are abundant, especially for "endgame" players so even if they die and lose all their possession they can simply walk into their arsenal and get more stuff.
The result is that Epoch eliminates most if not all of the survival element from the game: many endgame players do not hesitate to act recklessly or to KOS anyone they see because even though there is perma-death there is still relatively very little to lose if you have a safe full of goodies no one could possibly steal.

I agree that losing a character you like sucks at first glance, on the other hand if its that easy to accumulate power , people are far more likely to squander it or to start conflicts and most of the element of politics and tension is lost.

50% of your cash on death? there is no rational there and players would stop caring about what they choose to carry on their person( most of us rarely ever carry over 100$ in cash for that reason, because we know we can get mugged and even losing our credit card like that can be dangerous if we do  not cancel it in time)   Since WoD strive to mirror the real world that way I really don't why they should change it for an MMO.

the success of DayZ proves that people are more afraid of the idea of Perma-death while in reality it makes the game more immersive and exciting and progression is not the primary reason people enjoy roleplaying games(especially Vampire where progression is typically intentionally limited for the sake of immersion).

If you are still that fearful of losing your stuff you can always buy insurance probably.

Offline ush

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Re: Good news regarding WoD Online!
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2014, 07:41:02 PM »
I've been thinking recently about how gaming tends to have this retarded binary attitude towards violence, there's only two choices, kill or dont. It's pretty limiting and doesn't really reflect how socieities work, even theoretical vampiric societies.  It would be much more interesting to have a mechanic where you can resort to violence without killing if thats what the situation calls for


As for the good news, that ccp are having their heads turned by new developments/fads in MMOland, it speaks volumes about where they are in the development cycle after 9 years. Not good at all

Offline Signothorn

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Re: Good news regarding WoD Online!
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2014, 09:04:31 PM »
I've been thinking recently about how gaming tends to have this retarded binary attitude towards violence, there's only two choices, kill or dont. It's pretty limiting and doesn't really reflect how socieities work, even theoretical vampiric societies.  It would be much more interesting to have a mechanic where you can resort to violence without killing if thats what the situation calls for


As for the good news, that ccp are having their heads turned by new developments/fads in MMOland, it speaks volumes about where they are in the development cycle after 9 years. Not good at all

I agree to an extent, but I think it would be better if you had the ability to destroy a target politically, not just hack and slash with a side of disciplines. MMO's need to evolve drastically. Looking at the Elder Scrolls Online, it's not too much different than what you'd expect from any MMO, a poor attempt to port an immersive single player experience into a MMO format. I worry about this with regard to the WoD MMO. We've had great storytelling in the SP versions of Redemption and Bloodlines, along with ST controls in Redemption. However, I don't see CCP really communicating their vision of how they intend to carry it out with any consistency, or really coming out and saying they know what they intend to do. They are looking for inspiration in other games, it's not inherently bad, but I'm not sure if they know what to do with the MMO after years of dithering. I hope I'm wrong. Glad they are starting to talk about it again however, hope it continues semi-regularly now that the dust514 has settled.

Offline Rick Gentle

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Re: Good news regarding WoD Online!
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2014, 09:10:41 PM »
Radical21's assessment is accurate; I am your average mild-mannered alter-ego. That would be the reason I don't play survival games. If they made the WODMMO like DayZ with fangs**, I would not be willing to play it. But I am willing to bet that the reason games like DayZ are popular is that it's still pretty easy to "recycle" a character and get a fresh start. Survival sandbox games strike me as being in the same vein as your average deathmatch game taken to an extreme scale. It sounds like you can die just about as easily, too.

**but I still don't think they're going to

But when we're talking about vampires, we're not talking about easily-recyclable bots or a world where you can run around killing people for their gear. Unlike DayZ, there ARE rules in the World of Darkness, like your average laws (don't kill people in the streets, don't steal stuff off the street). If you want to talk about realism of setting and how it works with survival sandbox, you can't have both to the same extent as DayZ because the World of Darknes is a tough, unforgiving system - but it's not anarchistic or quite as dog-eat-zombie-dog as DayZ.

When we're talking about vampires, we're talking about entities with a lot more to lose than money and gear. If they want to make the World of Darkness more survival-esque, then losing these things makes sense (see above) and still punishes people for being reckless without losing EVERYTHING. Permanently. Because somebody had a loose trigger finger or didn't want to play by the "rules".

EVE Online strikes a nice balance between your classic PvP set-up and survival sandbox - if you choose to risk your ship and character, then you still die and lose quite a bit - some skills, some assets, and a whole lot of ISK to replace what you lost. People still don't want to die, and there's a lot of dancing around the issue of going to war, and ensuring your allies have your back, and generally the things we want to see in the WODMMO. If they wanted to translate those PvP mechanics directly over to the WODMMO, that I would be okay with, because it would be a choice of how hardcore you wanted to play.
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Offline Radical21

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Re: Good news regarding WoD Online!
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2014, 11:16:23 PM »
I've been thinking recently about how gaming tends to have this retarded binary attitude towards violence, there's only two choices, kill or dont. It's pretty limiting and doesn't really reflect how socieities work, even theoretical vampiric societies.  It would be much more interesting to have a mechanic where you can resort to violence without killing if thats what the situation calls for


As for the good news, that ccp are having their heads turned by new developments/fads in MMOland, it speaks volumes about where they are in the development cycle after 9 years. Not good at all

There is a mechanic like that in the new Dayz Standalone where you can take another player prisoner and do what you want to them without killing them.
 This is encouraged by the developer by giving the standalone the unrealistic feature: when you kill someone outright all the equipment that was on them is destroyed.

Sometimes with players trade also seems more worthwhile to get what they want in a safe way despite the fact that they could kill each-other.

The binary of life is what introduces the concept of risk, without it there would be chaos because everyone would be untouchable, this goes much further than killing really because killing becomes a risky activity: the last resort.

Radical21's assessment is accurate; I am your average mild-mannered alter-ego. That would be the reason I don't play survival games. If they made the WODMMO like DayZ with fangs**, I would not be willing to play it. But I am willing to bet that the reason games like DayZ are popular is that it's still pretty easy to "recycle" a character and get a fresh start. Survival sandbox games strike me as being in the same vein as your average deathmatch game taken to an extreme scale. It sounds like you can die just about as easily, too.

its only easy in the sense that there is no RPG progression but otherwise its really not in vanilla because finding weapons and good gear is not that easy.

I wouldn't call it a deathmatch game because the gameworld is vast and you do not have to kill each-other to gain score. And yeah if you are reckless you can die fast, most often the zombies or disease get you before the other players do in that case.

For the rest in WoD you can kill someone as much as in DayZ, there is no need to have hard-coding change that. its all about what you have to lose if you try to go there which is why WoD have so much intrigue and less direct way to go about it: there is really no need to code hard restrictions into WoD for that to remain true.

What WoD has that DayZ doesn't is the mafia element: Vampires typically relay on eachother because of the Sire-Childe bond and the Masquerade so there are plenty of incentives not to try and mess with other Vampires so overtly , because if you do, someone somewhere would probably come after you
« Last Edit: February 15, 2014, 11:28:03 PM by Radical21 »

Offline Acleacius

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Re: Good news regarding WoD Online!
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2014, 06:56:25 PM »
Oh great, now they are making a pvp gank fest.  :facepalm:
Trust me, most of the names I have been called you can't translate in any language...they're not even real words as much as a succession of violent images.

Offline Alexander Drayson

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Re: Good news regarding WoD Online!
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2014, 04:00:16 AM »
While I applaud them for looking at things like Rust and DayZ, I do encourage them to do what those types of games aren't doing at the moment: give players a means of creation to complement their powers of destruction.

These Survival type games are both in pay-to-access Alpha, and as such lack a significant amount of intended features that will be added at a later date.  As of this moment, there are no meaningful in-game incentives to band together unless you're playing with an RL friend(s).  You cannot currently create anything in the long term in these games, whether it's the case of DayZ in that there are no features to mold the sandbox or in the case of Rust where hacking and other troublesome behaviors have led to a general laissez faire dog-eat-dog community.  A growing number of people I've found that enjoy these games in their present state are those that play on Private Servers that can be more accurately moderated and have a stable community.  I play on servers like this quite frequently and the banditing and PVP are still there, but the moderation gives them purpose.  They rob and kill with reason, not just for the lulz of it all.

WOD can have this same dog-eat-dog attitude towards PVP; in fact, I encourage it.  However, unless a vast amount of meaningful ways to impact and alter the sandbox to our whim are included, people will simply go back to killing each other for fun: it's the only option they have in those Survival-type games at the moment, and it should not be the case for a living, breathing world.  In a perfect game, we'd be able to buy out another player's apartment complex and charge them more for the room.  Perhaps you could renovate an area in the barrens and take away all that easily-accessible food.  Maybe you can funnel money into the police department for increased presence in areas of the city.  Admittedly, such intricate levels of interaction are unlikely to be accessible to us anytime soon - but the principles of what such things allow are what the WOD and all these Survival Games need to strive for: Combat should be one of many ways to access, mold, and shape the game world.  If you cannot build,   if players are not given the powers to create, they will use their power of destruction by default: enter dull Kill-on-Site behavior-reinforcing game.

Offline Acleacius

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Re: Good news regarding WoD Online!
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2014, 07:01:17 PM »
Maybe that's the problem with CCP, they have no clue about PvE, the most popular form of game play. So they are just automatically alienating the majority of gamers.
Trust me, most of the names I have been called you can't translate in any language...they're not even real words as much as a succession of violent images.