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Cancelled or Suspended Projects => WOD MMO General Discussion => Topic started by: Cahalith on April 12, 2014, 12:39:55 pm

Title: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Cahalith on April 12, 2014, 12:39:55 pm
"Fresh" out of Reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/22td7a/storm_on_the_horizon_wod_appears_to_be_cancelled/), guys!
Quote
Former CCP staff here (edit: Someone rightfully pointed out some proof would help, so see this comment[1] here). I'm seeing a lot of unconfirmed talk on Facebook from current and former members of CCP about the closure of the majority of the ATL office. It appears that WoD may have been shuttered.

What details I've picked up from informal conversations:

  • ATL EVE Online GMs will remain.
  • A handful of other administrative staff will remain: likely to be HR, Office Managers, Legal, and so on.
  • The rest of the staff, which constitutes the overwhelming majority of people in CCP working on WoD, is seemingly on the verge of being let go.

To be explicitly clear: None of this is confirmed and its all second-hand knowledge at best, but I'm seeing former CCP members link to their new company's recruitment pages and reach out to current staff to help them with job relocation already, and lots of vague worries expressed by current staff.

If this is true, it's incredibly sad news for a lot of very hardworking people. The majority of people working on WoD are a standup bunch and it's terribly sad to imagine that their years of work may not result in a title. This can be even worse for those for whom this was their first major job in the industry, as they've now spent years working on a title, but its failure to release would mean they cannot easily include it as part of their resume when moving forward to new opportunities (this is where the reach out elsewhere helps, and its a testament to the people who in the past worked at CCP that they're doing what they can to help now - it really is a family-like community in times like these).

And of course, it's sad news for the many fans of the IP who hoped to play their beloved game in a brand new medium. A bad day all around, if this turns out to be really happening.

As for EVE Online, it will of course likely remain mostly unaffected if not entirely. It is obviously CCPs chief source of income and therefore at no great risk. If anything, this might help shore up support for it as CCP narrows its focus back towards fewer titles (EVE, DUST and development of Valkyrie, alongside whatever resources they may be continuing to put into mobile development). CCP has certainly spread itself dangerously thin and I've said as much in the past[2] the last time WoD-related layoffs happened.

There should be more official news after the weekend. Given that the rumor mill is in full action right now, at the very least if this is not happening, you can hopefully expect CCP to quell them officially by then, or alternatively confirm them.

My hunch, however, based on years working for them, is that this is real and was something of an inevitability. I could write a whole lot about problems within CCP and why I saw this coming, but given that people may possibly soon be losing their jobs and not sure how to feed their kids/pay mortgages/etc it doesn't seem appropriate. I will say only that the thought of WoD staff being let go makes me pretty damn angry, and would certainly vindicate many of the negative opinions I still have (and other former staff share) of CCP's upper management.

CCP Falcon immediately dropped by (http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/22td7a/storm_on_the_horizon_wod_appears_to_be_cancelled/cgq9los) to make an "official comment":
Quote
This is nothing more than a rumor with no basis of fact. Hope that's enough of a confirmation for you guys. :)


Oh, boy. It's yet to be seen whether this comment holds any water or not, but so far it seems there is something going on in Atlanta right now and we could be having an official statement by CCP next week. Honestly? Even if it ends up being nothing, this is going to crush whatever morale is left among the WoD community. We still don't know whether there'll be a WoD panel at Fanfest or not and all this silence is now deafening after that second round of layoffs.

I guess we should wait and see what happens.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled
Post by: Signothorn on April 12, 2014, 06:35:35 pm
I often see similar claims all over Facebook, all unnamed sources, or people speaking with anonymity. As pessimistic as I have been towards CCPGames' engagement with the community on the subject, I don't see any of these rumors as credible until CCPGames says it. They also just recently added WoDMMO artwork to their own site, so it's more the reason to discount the rumor. From time to time we also get trickles of info of it's continued existence, like this recent article:

http://www.decaturish.com/2014/03/game-decatur-companys-world/ (http://www.decaturish.com/2014/03/game-decatur-companys-world/)

Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled
Post by: Nigama on April 13, 2014, 01:56:29 am
Yeah.  What Signo said.

My eyes right now are on Eve's Fanfest coming up.  For better or worse, we'll probably get some basic pieces of info there, at least enough to reassure everyone they're still working on it.  I think if they have no panel for WoD that'd be a bad sign, but still not definitive.  Last year Chris actively didn't want to do a panel but was pushed to by CCP.  Chris has also said that Eve Fanfest is just that... a fanfest for *EVE* not the WoD.

Part of me still hopes for Fall.  Given that Eve Fanfest is in Spring, and the two major updates for Eve are in Summer and Winter, Fall is really the only time for the WoD to shine and make its own announcements.  You saw that reflected in the dates that were chosen for the Grand Masquerade, the event in Atlanta the following year (the name escapes me) and the Grey Ghost Masquerade in LA in 2013.  All happened in the Fall and all offered us tidbits about the WoD MMO.  I expect something similar to that to continue....


The sad part is that every year that rolls around, I keep pushing the possible date off by two years from where we currently are.  I wish CCP would shit or get off the pot, to quote Clerks.  Make the game or give it to someone who will, stop putzing around and wasting an excellent IP.  The work that I see fans do, that I'd like to stress that they don't get paid to do, far outpaces anything I've seen the corporate giant of CCP put out concerning the WoD.  It's a fucking sad state of affairs, my friends.


Nigama
I think Hope may have been the worst thing released by Pandora.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled
Post by: Radical21 on April 13, 2014, 03:20:28 am
Yeah.  What Signo said.

My eyes right now are on Eve's Fanfest coming up.  For better or worse, we'll probably get some basic pieces of info there, at least enough to reassure everyone they're still working on it.  I think if they have no panel for WoD that'd be a bad sign, but still not definitive.  Last year Chris actively didn't want to do a panel but was pushed to by CCP.  Chris has also said that Eve Fanfest is just that... a fanfest for *EVE* not the WoD.


Which is why I always thought we should build a new inspired mythos and a multiplayer mod for one of the sandbox game engines but sadly even that goal seems too ambitious with no return(even a text-based Nethack looking game)

A long while has passed since I've dealt with anything WOD, I don't even play it online at any capacity, its kind of sad in some ways.

Yeah I know we will always have VTMB but WOD is more interesting as grounds for social exploration in my eyes.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled
Post by: Claudia Vonigner on April 14, 2014, 04:41:01 pm
Truth.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-04-14-ccp-cancels-vampire-mmo-world-of-darkness (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-04-14-ccp-cancels-vampire-mmo-world-of-darkness)
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled
Post by: Seifer on April 14, 2014, 05:04:33 pm
A truly sad, sad day...
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled
Post by: Cahalith on April 14, 2014, 05:13:55 pm
Came here as soon as I heard the news. Oh, man.

Look.

Like many of you I've been following this game's development since the very beginning. There were years when the first thing I did every single morning was to google around new articles about WoD. I've been discussing for years with some of you fine gentlemen/ladies almost everything that's to be discussed about the WoD MMO, to the point that, years ago, we reached a place where there just was nothing else to discuss. Back in the day I'd watch with true glee how sometimes some of the things I posted around here found their way into major game news sites (remember that 2010 release date? Oh, man, how naïve all of us were then!), some CCP dev even mentioned my (and Valamyr's!) coverage of the WoD panel at Fanfest two years ago. Also, remember that time when Chris showed up and discussed stuff with us? This community was the first community worldwide to create a place for us WoD MMO enthusiasts to discuss about permanight and whether the MMO was going to be oWoD or nWoD.

What I'm trying to say is this: I don't regret this for a minute. This was a fun journey, guys, count me in for the next adventure!
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled
Post by: Cahalith on April 14, 2014, 05:26:05 pm
Apparently some WoD MMO screenshots might be surfacing! Check them out!

EDIT: More pics!


Nevermind, dbs has already posted the links over here (https://forums.planetvampire.com/?topic=6372.msg121200#msg121200)!

I should read the forum more often... sigh...
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled
Post by: ush on April 14, 2014, 06:45:24 pm
Can't say I'm suprised at this, its been on the cards for a while

One thing it does show is that CCP are one trick wonders, they havent the chops to repeat the sucess of eve

oh and that chris mcd is a bit of a bullshit merchant  :chinscratch:
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled
Post by: Cahalith on April 14, 2014, 06:58:06 pm
Jon Selin posted this on Twitter, I think it sums it all perfectly:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BlMPFmiIEAA0B1d.jpg)

To those 56 devs who were laid off today, and to those others who'd been laid off back in 2011 or during last Christmas: I might never get to see what you worked on so hard for so many years but thank you for all your hard work, guys. It was an awesome dream and you did what you could to make it a reality, I can't ask for more. Wish you guys the best because you deserve nothing less.

oh and that chris mcd is a bit of a bullshit merchant  :chinscratch:

Nah, even though he must surely have known that this was coming, he couldn't say it out loud without some previous announcement by CCP. Instead he went out of his way to curb the expectatives for a WoD panel this Fanfest. An almost classy move compared to what CCP Falcon did in that Reddit thread (outright deny the rumour a few days before the announcement).
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled
Post by: Nigama on April 14, 2014, 07:02:12 pm
The question now is.... does CCP sit on the IP or sell it back to Onyx Path Publishing or some other group that might actually *do* something with it.

Let's be honest.  Chris was a bullshit merchant, and the WoD was vaporware.  White Wolf tried to save itself by selling itself to CCP, and that failed horribly.  As OPP has shown, they had NO NEED to do that.  All they did in the end was kill their company and fire off all the original members of the White Wolf team.  In short, White Wolf has failed... both themselves and us, the fans. 

The *only* hope now is that CCP sells the IP to someone who will do something with it.  Whether that's a new single player game like Bloodlines or a company that would continue to work on an MMO.  However, I think it's just as likely CCP sits on the IP so that no one else can make money off of it.  I strongly dislike Hilmar (and Eve), after today.

I'll try to deal with my anger in a constructive way, but it would be an understatement to say that I'm very disappointed.

Nigama
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled
Post by: Ashtone on April 14, 2014, 07:04:22 pm
Well what a terrible shame...

This was one of the games I'd been looking forward to for a long, long time. Although over the past couple of years I kind of suspected this would happen, I'd clung to a tiny scrap of hope that the game would pull through. Ah well :(.

you have to wonder what kind of financial state ccp are in for this to have happened. they must of spent a fair bit of money developing the game to the state shown in those pictures. With dust 514 being something of a failure and eve valkryie, a dogfighting simulator, looks like its going to come out just in time to get demolished by star citizen. Looks a bit bleak for ccp at the moment.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled
Post by: Signothorn on April 14, 2014, 07:11:34 pm
I'm wanting to think about what's next for the WoD IP, but I'm thinking more about the White Wolf employees who lost their jobs over the last couple of years. It was really more than just a job to them, they loved working there and were really passionate about it. It likely felt like the death of a thousand paper cuts for those tho weren't laid off in 2011, trying to save the sinking ship.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: dbs on April 14, 2014, 08:05:08 pm
Here we are gents. I haven't been on PV as an active poster very long, but I've been following this game out the gate like most of you and the disappointment is pretty real. That being said, it's sort of a relief. It's officially over and we can just call it a day now.

I have to say though, some of the community responses are rather disgusting. I'm less concerned about the future of WoD as an mmo and more concerned about the people that lost their jobs or White Wolf as a whole. CCP pretty much ran a truck straight through WW as a company (although, they are partially to blame I guess) and it remains to be seen what happens now. I could honestly give less of a fuck about WoDMMO right now - If this opens the door to a new, fleshed out SP game I'll actually even be happy.

As for CCP, they handled the whole thing poorly - Falcon's approach in the Reddit thread was actually disgusting. I'm not even mad at them either though. Between EVE suffering from the same problems (a garbled mess of legacy and spaghetti code), DUST being a colossal failure and Valkyrie being a niche space shooter, derived from an even more niche space MMO requiring the use of a niche peripheral I'm sure they have their plates full. I wonder how long the joyous cries of some of the more degenerate EVE players will last when they realize axing WoDMMO doesn't address any of the above.

My thoughts go out to everyone that lost their job today. Here's hoping WoD eventually gets the singleplayer game it deserves.

Expect more images of the final alpha build to go up soon. I'm however respecting that people want to internalize and get over the whole ordeal first, but I will be badgering a certain someone and should hopefully at least share some more images of what could've been very soon.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Claudia Vonigner on April 14, 2014, 08:15:55 pm
"We basically just feel that we overreached with WoD in its initial concept and were trying to achieve too much in the first iteration of the project. We've worked hard and adjusted the plan a number of times along the way but felt the project just wan't true to the original concept that was laid out.

The decision was made to cancel the project because we don't feel we met our target of creating a fully immersive experience set in the WoD universe, and felt it was in our best interests to put an end to the project rather than retro-fitting it and re-hashing it further."

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=337022&find=unread

Interesting stuff.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled
Post by: Radical21 on April 14, 2014, 08:25:42 pm
The question now is.... does CCP sit on the IP or sell it back to Onyx Path Publishing or some other group that might actually *do* something with it.

Let's be honest.  Chris was a bullshit merchant, and the WoD was vaporware.  White Wolf tried to save itself by selling itself to CCP, and that failed horribly.  As OPP has shown, they had NO NEED to do that.  All they did in the end was kill their company and fire off all the original members of the White Wolf team.  In short, White Wolf has failed... both themselves and us, the fans. 

The *only* hope now is that CCP sells the IP to someone who will do something with it.  Whether that's a new single player game like Bloodlines or a company that would continue to work on an MMO.  However, I think it's just as likely CCP sits on the IP so that no one else can make money off of it.  I strongly dislike Hilmar (and Eve), after today.

I'll try to deal with my anger in a constructive way, but it would be an understatement to say that I'm very disappointed.

Nigama

In the end  its always business which is why I don't bother directing my anger at CCP, CCP are not owned by its developer but rather by corporations that see it as purely business. WOD Online was an ambitious project with setbacks so they cancelled it. Although it would have  been  nice if they release the source to the community to do some development with but I won't hold my breath... I prefered a WOD Online game done right or none and at all so if its none at all so be it.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Rick Gentle on April 14, 2014, 08:43:08 pm
I should like to say that my sympathies go to the murder victim. The WODMMO's death was prolonged and painful, but at least they finally put it out of its misery. But speaking as a fan of the IP, and as a person who was really looking forward to an MMO set in one of my favorite game worlds, it's still pretty much murder. Cancelling the MMO aspect of the game is one thing; they could have easily converted the material of the game into a massive sandbox single-player game. (Does the idea of Skyrim + the World of Darkness make anyone else salivate?)
CCP has proven several times over that they will always choose their firstborn idea over anything else. I find it cruel and unusual that they would leave White Wolf, their own employees, and we fans hanging on for such a long time - I suppose it's good that their employees still got paychecks up until they were all let go, but that also means those employees lacked the opportunity to move on to more stable, successful jobs. Speaking as an unemployed man myself, I'm looking for a stable job over one that's exciting and lets me have fun with my passions every day. It would be nice to have both, but I don't think that's feasible for most of us in this economy.

So what I'd really like to see now is all fans of the World of Darkness - both tabletop and its digital analogues - actively boycott CCP products, from EVE Online to the upcoming Valkyrie. All levels of CCP should know that their actions (an inactions) have consequences among their fans and would-have-been fans. Hit 'em in their pocketbook, because apparently they won't feel it any other way.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Alexander Drayson on April 14, 2014, 09:47:20 pm
I'd have rather they cancelled it than given us a watered down product that failed to live up to its ambitions; I can take some modicum of comfort in that at least.  I wish those out of work the best, they must feel the worst out of anyone.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Grizzly_UK on April 14, 2014, 09:56:18 pm
It's always sad to read of any game being cancelled but it's also somewhat more painfull when it happens to a game that you were looking forward to being able to play one day.

While this is truly sad news for all WoD fans (and even worse for the former CCP staff) I have to say that I'm not too surprised by this announcement. I think there are quite a few around here who had begun having doubts about the WODMMO ever seeing the light of day, for various reasons probably. For me it was the length of time it was in "development", in the time since CCP actually confirmed that they were working on a WODMMO there's been a number of other MMO's announced, completed and released! It's such a shame because I'm sure that a WODMMO could be fairly successfull.

Best wishes to all those who have lost their jobs with CCP, I hope all of them are able to find new employment without too much trouble! Hopefully either CCP's fortunes improve so that they can revisit this IP or they decide to sell the IP to a company who can start doing something positive with the IP!
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Rick Gentle on April 14, 2014, 10:56:13 pm
http://www.redbull.com/us/en/games/stories/1331621298651/the-developers-who-can-t-complete-their-own-games?wtk=13807406905246 (http://www.redbull.com/us/en/games/stories/1331621298651/the-developers-who-can-t-complete-their-own-games?wtk=13807406905246)

Okay, so it's not exactly what it sounds like, but if you just read the title, I think CCP should be on this list.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: snowbunny on April 15, 2014, 01:37:40 am
I wonder if cancellation of WoD isn't a beginning of a serious financial problems of CCP. In recent years every new CCP's project didn't met the expectations. Dust 514 was a failure, Valkyrie seems to stay in shadow of Elite: Dangerous and Star Citizen. Eve Online failed to expand (all those Walking in Station stuff) while many new space sims with strong multiplayer wibe aproach horizon. Consider this, CCP seems to have strong competitors and probably any serious development plans for future.

It's such a strange coincidence that info of layoffs in Atlanta studio was published 11th december, the day when playable alpha of Elite: Dangerous started.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Valamyr on April 15, 2014, 03:10:41 am
Their gravest mistake was trying to brew an homegrown engine. They never pulled it off right, huge performance problems, and at some point they gave up.

Some of the design decisions they made along the way would have also limited marketability, but the first thing you need is a viable 1st/3rd person engine.

I'm hope they're open to license the IP for other PC-based projects, like single player games or another MMO. Too good an IP to be used just for tabletop in this day and age.

RIP WODo.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: PearlJamR on April 15, 2014, 06:27:36 am
This whole mess from 2009 to now i am finally out of CCPs grasp. EVE is DEAD. Long Live Star Citizen.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Leorgrium on April 15, 2014, 06:16:15 pm
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-04-15-ccp-drops-into-red-losing-USD21m-in-fy-2013 (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-04-15-ccp-drops-into-red-losing-USD21m-in-fy-2013)

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Claudia Vonigner on April 15, 2014, 09:53:55 pm
Eve players blame the WoD for their lack of dev.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Rick Gentle on April 15, 2014, 10:07:25 pm
EVE Online has had trouble with consistent development and patching since before the WODMMO started development. More recently, it's not the WODMMO's fault Incarna failed. In fact, if they hadn't been testing the engine for the WODMMO development, CCP might not have tried Incarna to begin with, reasoning that it wouldn't have been worth the investment for one product that isn't even focused on walking around the stations.

They don't get the privilege of bitching about it when it's the WODMMO that's clearly suffered because of the EVE franchise.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Cahalith on April 15, 2014, 11:32:09 pm
Let's not go crazy, guys. Eve Online is still a great game and, while CCP might have proven themselves to be a little bit terrible when it comes to developing other games, I have no doubt that MMO is going to withstand Star Citizen, Elite: Dangerous or anything the next decade throws at it. The community is fabulous and many of them were as excited about WoD as us, so were many devs. The company has taken a huge hit in credibility, though, and I'm sure they'll hurt for a while. I wish them the best. Also wouldn't hurt to sell Onyx Path the WoD IP. Just saying.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-04-15-ccp-drops-into-red-losing-USD21m-in-fy-2013 (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-04-15-ccp-drops-into-red-losing-USD21m-in-fy-2013)

 :facepalm:
This comment (http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/04/15/ccp-reviewing-world-of-darkness-ip/?hubRefSrc=permalink#lf-content=76836541:155893915) explains quite well what's happening there. CCP is not going under... but then again, check that comment by Alan Wilson (Tripwire) in the gamesindustry.biz article.

Anyway, Harlequin posted this on Facebook the other day. I'm not sure how up-to-date he's exactly when it comes to this stuff or if it's even true, but might spark some cool discussion.
Quote
Ok I suppose I can go public with what I know since the MMO is canceled. While I wasn't expecting cancellation there was always that possibility. The reason I say this is I was informed a while ago this all traces back, sadly to, Incarna. The original goal as many of us know is the engine for walking in stations in EVE and WoD was to be shared. However as I reported about on wodnew.net as development went on the needs of the engine for WoD greatly out paced what EVE needed it for and the engine forked. What I didn't say was the Atlanta office was then, in effect, left to its own devices. The HQ in Iceland basically stopped sharing, supporting the code and let the Atlanta office sink or swim. I was told by a now former employee since Iceland didn't have a need for the additions to Incarna Atlanta needed HQ cut them off technically from their branch and most forms of technical support. The person implied to me Atlanta felt they were in a fight to deliver a product that HQ didn't seem that keen on helping with or supporting and they were on the outside looking in company wise. As HQ decided to put all its marbles in EVE. Sadly seems this lack of resource support caught up to the project. None the less I think this aspect of the story puts this situation into context to some degree.

The official line is that WoD didn't live up to its potential, but something tells me that's the easiest way of having an ex-WoD dev punch you in the face. I'd love to hear a "Behind the scenes" from one of them (not right now, mind you, this might be still a little bit too raw), alas I doubt we'll ever have the chance.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Radical21 on April 15, 2014, 11:52:15 pm
Speaking as an unemployed man myself, I'm looking for a stable job over one that's exciting and lets me have fun with my passions every day. It would be nice to have both, but I don't think that's feasible for most of us in this economy.

So what I'd really like to see now is all fans of the World of Darkness - both tabletop and its digital analogues - actively boycott CCP products, from EVE Online to the upcoming Valkyrie. All levels of CCP should know that their actions (an inactions) have consequences among their fans and would-have-been fans. Hit 'em in their pocketbook, because apparently they won't feel it any other way.

So let me get this straight: you are jealous of CCP Developers who have awesome jobs and you imply they don't deserve them because WoDMMO failed so you want to boycott them and drive them out of business so more of them will end up being fired?

Sorry but you are way out of line on this one, CCP may have promised something they did not deliver but they didn't take anything from you, this is especially true of the Developers and Artists working on EVE Online that have nothing to do with the corporate business decisions.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Grizzly_UK on April 16, 2014, 12:10:45 am
Probably nothing new here:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/459037/ccp-reviewing-world-of-darkness-ip-after-cancellation/ (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/459037/ccp-reviewing-world-of-darkness-ip-after-cancellation/)

But figured some might want to have a read of the article and comments.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Nigama on April 16, 2014, 02:05:42 am
Say what you will, Rad, I for one speak with my dollars.  Elite: Dangerous and Star Citizen are more than viable alternatives for future potential Eve players.  Whenever I enter into a discussion with someone about which game they play I will heavily favor the former over the latter.  I will not tell ANYONE about ANY interesting developments in Eve any longer.  While I do not have a sub to cancel, I can at least not send anyone else their way.  I feel like an idiot for having done so already.

Nigama
Hilmar only hears whining and dollar signs.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Radical21 on April 16, 2014, 04:07:30 am
At present Elite and Star Citizen are Pre-alpha, I wouldn't call them anymore viable, especially when you put them next to a long running MMO like EVE... I get what you are saying but I still don't think it will make WoDMMO happen... if it makes them release the project to the community that will actually do something with it great but that is very unlikely.

In the end nothing changed as far as WOD video games are concerned : if you want to step out of the cage you need to use WOD for inspiration in order to create a viable multiplayer game out of it otherwise you are always trapped with a restricted engine or IP licensing.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: snowbunny on April 16, 2014, 04:41:35 am
Elite is in playable alpha with beta starting next month. The fact that Eve is a long running game may not be helpful since it possibly boxed itself in with innability to resolve many issues and bad design decisions.

It's true that Eve Online has strong community but i wonder if it's enough to compete with games that propably will be more modern, more newbie-friendly and will contain some of the features CCP had promised years ago.

Anyway, whatever happen to Eve, WoD is lost and propably there won't be any game set in IP for at least few years. That's why I recommended Cyberpunk 2077 as this game  in my opinion is the closest in mood and mechanic to this what WoDo should be.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Nosferatu Numbers Station on April 16, 2014, 08:29:03 am
Jesus, not something I was expecting to read when I came on here.

My condolences to those who were laid off from this move.  It was a mercy killing, and yet it was a killing that, in retrospect, was easily avoidable had they not given in to CCP.

Sticking to their guns is a natural thing to do, but they tried to influence one game with another.  In theory that'd be innovation out the ass, but on paper it looks like someone drew an ass.  But you don't need to base your new games off the success of your current ones, as they have recently found out the hard way.  Though there was no guarantee it would of been good at the stage (and time) things were at before cancellation.

Maybe we'll get some horror stories in the coming months after things cool down.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Leorgrium on April 16, 2014, 10:24:28 am
(http://i.imgur.com/trl6E2d.jpg)
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Rick Gentle on April 16, 2014, 04:31:35 pm
Quote
"We believe that the World of Darkness IP is very valuable and will be reviewing the status of it in the coming weeks and months, but we have no specific plans under consideration at this time," a CCP spokesperson told us.
Sooooo... they killed it, and are now leaving it to rot. It really shouldn't take months to decide what to do with an IP, and if you lay off one project without having a plan to replace it, it's bad for everybody.

Hilmar only hears whining and dollar signs.
Which is why I was leery of them making a WODMMO in the first place. MMO companies always listen to the whiners and the $$ before anything else. CCP has demonstrated a surprising amount of consideration with their Council of Stellar Management, but I don't even know how that's been going lately.

We had a very strong community in Star Wars Galaxies. Great game (before it died), great people, fun atmosphere - but that didn't stop it from being put down. I got out of it many years ago, but recently I've seen videos of its literal ending - and the thousands of players who SAT THERE UNTIL THEY GOT KICKED OFF THE SERVERS FOREVER, because they wanted every last second they could grab.
A great community is going to mean jack shizzle of the rest of the game can't live up to it, or the producers decide to kill it. If you want a great community, come play tabletop or a single-player game. That's what this site was originally founded on, and look where we are today he said with no trace of sarcasm!

EDIT
I just saw a new Flash advertisement for EVE Online that said:
EVE ONLINE
BE THE VILLAIN

I chuckled. It was just too perfect.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Radical21 on April 16, 2014, 07:04:34 pm
Honestly I just prefer to play DayZ on the ZeroSurvival server... Sandbox, Basebuilding, balance ,No P2W, 100% FFA PvP and 0% tolerance towards hacking or combat logging, that stuff is sorely missing in the MMORPG environment and the only reason it happens on DayZ is cause its a private server.

Would be nice if there was something like that for WoD.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Leorgrium on April 28, 2014, 08:50:03 pm
http://imgur.com/gallery/tHBVw/new (http://imgur.com/gallery/tHBVw/new)

(http://i.imgur.com/7HkjSa8.jpg)
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Rick Gentle on April 28, 2014, 09:57:40 pm
Pig tails, heart trails, and... "Press E to Seduce"?

It LOOKS like the World of Darkness, and it TASTED like the World of Darkness... but it's not acting like the World of Darkness...
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Radical21 on April 28, 2014, 11:05:09 pm
Pig tails, heart trails, and... "Press E to Seduce"?

It LOOKS like the World of Darkness, and it TASTED like the World of Darkness... but it's not acting like the World of Darkness...

So Rick do you want to tell us what is not acting like WoD there? I admit it seems somewhat fishmalk to go around like a goth school girl seducing people to ghoul them but I assume its only one of the things you could do in that game.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Signothorn on April 29, 2014, 01:02:56 am
http://wodmmo.ru/world-of-darkness-posleslovie/ (http://wodmmo.ru/world-of-darkness-posleslovie/) 

Translate the page from Russian and enjoy. Thanks to Leogrium for showing me this. The biggest "bombshell" is these documents linked in the article:

https://docviewer.yandex.com/?url=ya-disk-public%3A%2F%2FjBtVWEj6jI1LSCSyKH%2FrkotjmHYrHtsl%2BdOXr8sZT3o%3D&name=marchwalkthrough.pdf&page=0&c=535ee9cdd05f (https://docviewer.yandex.com/?url=ya-disk-public%3A%2F%2FjBtVWEj6jI1LSCSyKH%2FrkotjmHYrHtsl%2BdOXr8sZT3o%3D&name=marchwalkthrough.pdf&page=0&c=535ee9cdd05f)
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Rick Gentle on April 29, 2014, 01:05:59 am
The Old World of Darkness was the first RPG I ever played that gave a fair and in-depth aspect to social play. And, luckless bachelor that I am, I'm pretty sure that seducing an attractive female takes more than holding down "E". If you can make and keep ghouls with just a snap of your magic fingers, then it really sounds like they wanted to put in something I wanted to avoid: having ghoul "pets" running around being your bodyguards or sex-slaves. (That is to say, running around being your bodyguards and sex-slaves without any EFFORT.)
Aside from that particular bit, one of the screenshots is showing that Tremere chick casting a spell straight out of World of WarCraft - big, flashy AoE complete with a hexagrammic targeting circle. I think the most explosive Thaumaturgy power is Cauldron of Blood, and it's not an AoE, and until the person explodes from boiling blood, it's really not that flashy a power.

Aside from the WoW-ness of it... it looks cool. I want to know if they have any screenshots of Gangrel doing Gangrely things. It might change my mind if Protean is as overpowered and flashy as Thaumaturgy seems to be.
Also, I would like to know how that Tremere chick got on top of that building. They don't have any Disciplines that would allow them to get up there from the outside (barring Movement of the Mind - which would be awesome if they included it, but it seems like a lot of effort); but if they would let us access a given building and climb the stairs to the roof... that's much more better.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Leorgrium on April 30, 2014, 01:47:17 am
http://imgur.com/a/P6Kd8#0 (http://imgur.com/a/P6Kd8#0)
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Rick Gentle on April 30, 2014, 06:05:08 am
Blood...crafting...?
Would we at least have gotten to design that bar-looking space? It looks sort of like a property we'd own, like a bank for our ghouls.

"Brood"? That's an actual power? I thought that was just something Toreador and Brujah did as a hunting tactic...

The city map looks pretty awesome.
"Vitae at Stake"... sounds like they were really dead serious about blood as a literal currency. Hax.

I hope we would've at least gotten to design the room with the bed. That's GOT to be a haven.

Bloodcrafting again... Eeeeeeehhhhhhhhh... Sounds an awful lot like a crafting system out of a game like Diablo III or Path of Exile, only instead of gear and lootz, you have properties on your Disciplines. Eeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhh.

The black skull UI thing looks cool. I'm guessing that's the result of a Masquerade breach and/or a Humanity loss. Maybe Rotschreck?

Create Character... Please tell me the one on the left is NOT a Nossie. Also, a choice between starting as a mortal or a vampire? What would the point be in that? If you could only choose to be Embraced voluntarily, you'd just be waiting around until someone from the right Clan showed up anyway.

The tracking looks kind of cool. They had that in Star War Galaxies, and it was one of the best parts of being a Ranger. At least it's a step up from the "Heartbeat Trail". I hope it requires a skill in Survival or a specialty in Tracking or something. If I had been designing the WODMMO, I would've made each skill have at least three Specialties, like the sub-categories of skills in EVE Online.

Though all-in-all, the comments below the pictures have a point...
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Radical21 on April 30, 2014, 10:33:27 pm
Don't act so shock Rick, Im not sure if its was you or Cahalith but you kept saying 'Blood economy ... blood economy' even though its a stupid idea that doesn't make sense and now you are surprised that they actually listened?.

Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Rick Gentle on April 30, 2014, 11:14:33 pm
I was always opposed to blood being a currency. Control of ghouls, blood dolls, and feeding domain? Sure. But a currency? Hax no. That's what it sounds like in those screenshots. There's no reason why you should be able to trade points of vitae for anything but Disciplines and healing. And maybe ghouling.
But definitely not XP or domain itself.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Valamyr on May 01, 2014, 01:45:39 pm
Blood...crafting...?
snip

All makes sense to me, to be honest. Things like a blood economy and the choice of skipping being a mortal, these are things I'd have put in. I see they were planning on letting you use your ghoul to run timer based 'missions' for you like crafting in Neverwinter, which is rapidly becoming a hallmark of F2P games (you can pay to make it go faster...). Cool city and atmosphere. Game engine looks dated as suspected, but they had a good art direction. Seems to have put time in building extensive tutorials. Controls look solid.

I liked that they took freedom to make new stats and disciplines, not sticking too closely to PnP materials that wouldnt translate too well directly to the computer. Redemption tried 'by the book', Bloodlines cut some corners, the MMO would have finally broken out of the mold.

Still getting a strong 'pure sandbox hidden under a sprawling tutorial' vibe, though. No clear evidence of alot of the two other spheres of play. Would have been possible to play the game casually running missions, gathering vitae to power up and messing around with your ghouls and playing dress up, with the real action focusing around PvP for prestige and influence and hopefully titles.  Seems they wizened up on alot of design points, but just did not have the resources to go on, which is a shame.

No huge surprises. This is still something I'd have played alot.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Valamyr on May 01, 2014, 03:39:13 pm
http://wodmmo.ru/world-of-darkness-posleslovie/ (http://wodmmo.ru/world-of-darkness-posleslovie/) 

Translate the page from Russian and enjoy. Thanks to Leogrium for showing me this. The biggest "bombshell" is these documents linked in the article:

https://docviewer.yandex.com/?url=ya-disk-public%3A%2F%2FjBtVWEj6jI1LSCSyKH%2FrkotjmHYrHtsl%2BdOXr8sZT3o%3D&name=marchwalkthrough.pdf&page=0&c=535ee9cdd05f (https://docviewer.yandex.com/?url=ya-disk-public%3A%2F%2FjBtVWEj6jI1LSCSyKH%2FrkotjmHYrHtsl%2BdOXr8sZT3o%3D&name=marchwalkthrough.pdf&page=0&c=535ee9cdd05f)

Oh okay, I missed this. Well fuck screenshots then, this is the whole package. After reading this I can conclude that yes, they were building a realistic MMO. Most of the common sense MMO concepts and logic I argued for over the years find Redemption as you read through this. Its really most of what I wanted and that some of you argued against, but at the same time, it makes the fact its dead more painful. I'm summarizing the good stuff with some cuts and pastes. Forgive the exclamation points, its from pasting from that doc.

Can move haven locations. It sounds like at this point they had not yet managed to make Havens truly customizable, instead they had a few 'Haven options' you could pick from in various parts of the city, that were pre-customized. 

Humanity IS as I guessed the 'play nice policy and obey vampire law' package; "Masquerade violations, attacking other players, and looting other players trigger Humanity loss. At 0 Humanity, you can be perma-killed." Permadeath only at humanity zero, but you can buy back humanity or even avoid losing it altogeter. Looks fine, though "looting other players" is worrysome, it sounds like they were going for character growth through character improvement rather than loot, which made this okay.

Vitae
Money. Traded between vampires as “blood money” and treated as currency to buy XP. << Yup. Sorry Rick. Loved that concept.

Merits that you earn by playing the game, giving you prestige, which in turn impacts how much 'ghoul missions' will reward you.

Tribute
Players pay respect to their Brood Sire, and half of their Tribute turns into free Vitae (in-game money). The other half is given to your sire as Tribute that she can give to her sire. > Cool little pyramid scheme ;) Asherons Call flashback.

Brood = Name for guilds.

Aspects
Equipment and power-ups. These Blood Aspects enhance your character and act similar to g!ear/equipment/fittings in other games. << There we go, this is why you can loot people. Its because the true power cant be looted, its part of who you are.

Public feeding is a Masq violation unless you seduce first, like in Bloodlines.

"Hunting" mini game to track a "prey" to gain vitae.

No decay of Vitae over time. You use it for everything, its money, its XP, its by some abilities. Perfect. You have to be at your haven to turn vitae into xp through "torpor". Okay.

You 'equip" disciplines to a restricted amount of slots, and you 'equip' aspects (gear equivalent) to the equivalent of an inventory window with pre-defined slots. Aspects can be traded (makes sense since its like gear), not disciplines. You can trade Aspects, Essences for Bloodcrafting, unused ghouls, and Vitae.

Oh, theres actually clans were in, not 3. The 3 avatars are just that, skins, which suggest that they were not very far into allowing in-game character customization. They were still putting in the 7 base clans. Each Clan has 3 disciplines with 3 sub-powers.

Brujah!
Anarchs and rebels, the Brujah used to try and change the world through politics and
philosophy, now they do it with their fists. This Clan is considered for the advanced player as
their magic use requires more thought, strategy and game understanding to be effective. The
supported builds in the playtest are Melee DPS/Tank.
 
Base Discipline Powers: !
• Potence
• Leap – Supernaturally jump a great distance!
• Earthshock – Slam the ground in front of you, knocking back and damaging all enemies
caught in the blast!
• Unholy Blood – Attacks cause bonus physical damage, with extra damage caused to
enemies with low Willpower.!
• Celerity!
• Blur - Move quickly to a target (with bad animations)!
• Flurry - Throw triple punch!
• Raging Blood - Increase blood trickle and movement speed for a short time!
• Majesty!
• Awe - Single-target soft taunt/detaunt!
• Kindred Aura - Allows you to pick between a suite of aura buffs for your allies!
! • Rally - Point-blank Area of Effect Willpower heal over time for your allies!

Toreador!
Lovers of the arts, they are quick, lithe, and seductive. The supported builds in the playtest are
M! elee DPS and Support/Melee DPS.!
Base Discipline Powers:!
• Auspex!
• Aura Perception - Allows you to tag and debuff defenses of a target from long range!
• Mirror Reflex - Passively gives you a damage bonus for one attack after using a discipline
on your target; gives a defensive buff when activated!
• Sixth Sense - Reveals entities within a range regardless of line of sight, and allows you to
see them and use abilities on them for a short while (currently not working in client)!
• Celerity!
• Blur - Move quickly to a target (with bad animations)!
• Flurry - Throw triple punch!
• Raging Blood - Increase blood trickle and movement speed for a short time!
• Majesty!
• Awe - Single-target soft taunt/detaunt!
• Kindred Aura - Allows you to pick between a suite of aura buffs for your allies!
! • Rally - Point-blank Area of Effect Willpower heal over time for your allies!

Tremere
Wildly intelligent blood witches. This Clan is considered for the advanced player, as their magic
use requires more thought, strategy, and game understanding to be effective. The supported
b!uilds in the playtest are Ranged DPS and CC/Ranged DPS.!
Base Discipline Powers:!
• Auspex!
• Aura Perception - Allows you to tag and debuff defenses of a target from long range!
• Mirror Reflex - Passively gives you a damage bonus for one attack after using a discipline
on your target; gives a defensive buff when activated!
• Sixth Sense - Reveals entities within a range regardless of line of sight, and allows you to
see them and use abilities on them for a short while (currently not working in client)!
• Dominate!
• Command - Roots your target!
• Obedience - Slows enemies around you!
• Tyrant's Gaze - Drains Willpower over time to your target!
• Thaumaturgy!
• Cauldron of Blood - Deal damage and slow your target while channeling!
• Nexus - Place a mystical nexus that buffs your mental abilities and allows you to teleport
back to it!
• Ward of Destruction - Place a ward on the ground with a short delay before it activates that
deals damage when someone enters it!

Ventrue!
Regal and tough leaders who can take large amounts of damage. The supported builds in the
p!laytest are CC/Tank and Support/Tank.!
Base Discipline Powers:!
• Dominate!
• Command - Roots your target!
• Obedience - Slows enemies around you!
• Tyrant's Gaze - Drains Willpower over time to your target!
• Fortitude!
• Iron Will - Gain a temporary Willpower shield!
• Safeguard - Take some of the damage that an ally would receive!
• Stoicism - Passively reduces physical damage taken!
• Majesty!
• Awe - Single-target soft taunt/detaunt!
• Kindred Aura - Allows you to pick between a suite of aura buffs for your allies!
• Rally - Point-blank Area of Effect Willpower heal over time for your allies!!

I love it. The MMO terminology used will probably make some of you cringe ;) But a MMO is what I wanted. The 7 Clans would really have felt like fairly different classes.

Everyone has a "warp to haven" Ability (shroud). Everyone can toggle at will between melee and ranged basic attacks (claws and pistols). Sprint that drains willpower.

Elysiums totally blue/safe zones with no combat possible :) Hubs for chat and trade.

Standard MMO communication ; /whisper, /Brood, /group, /say, and /local.

Colors on the map and minimap indicates where content is of appropriate difficulty for you. You can really see that character progression was in as much as in any other MMO. Further down we see Blood Potency is a level-equivalent mechanic.

Establishments can be owned by players.

Feeding is similar to bloodlines. Killing mortals when feeding (their life bar empties) also lowers Humanity, so if you play it too close and overfeed you may end up having to pay XP to buy back humanity.

Vitae represents the the power, experience, and mystical energy that flows through a vampire’s blood. Vampires value Vitae over money, and they will often exchange it by feeding from each
o!ther for things they value within the world
. Looks like the Blood Bond only works on ghouls. Vampires feed from each other to open a trading window. Hahaha I love it.

V!itae is generated by sending ghouls on missions in Establishments (and Hunting I believe?) Because Vitae represents experience, players can also use it to increase stats and learn new
s!kills or Disciplines.

Vitae can't be turned into XP "At will". You can only buy up to 10 XP worth per real day, limiting the progression, and "only the most influential and dedicated will be able to earn the full amount". But "Unpurchased XP points do not expire. They just roll over, and you can buy them at that same c!ost any time." The costs per XP in terms of Vitae keep going up.

They had an online/web platform, Conclave, which would have likely become simultaneously forums, ways to check each others characters, rankings, read news on the game, etc.

"Paths of Enlightenment" are basically a color-code for Aspects that add stat bonuses and help players choose Aspects that fit their desired playstyle. For example, "Path of the Damned, yellow, (Crowd Control, Vision, Magic) (+1 Intelligence per Aspect) Good for Tremere!" So any Yellow Aspect would be "Mage gear". Increasingly obvious that though they were really creative with names, they were trying to have a core MMORPG design in place.

Aspects must be infused in order, you can only have a Lv4 Aspect if you already have 1,2,3 in that path.

T!he total number of Aspects that a player can infuse is based on her Blood Potency. Spending XP increases Blood Potency. You gain Blood Potency 2 after spending 8 XP, and this
allows you to fit and use Aspects. Blood Potency increases your base Health, the size of your B!lood Reserve, and the number of Aspects you can equip.
>> Well there ARE levels after all. Quite obvious that Blood Potency is a level-equivalent mechanic.

You hunt for specific exceptional humans that can sometimes drop Aspects you desire ("as they had the right life experiences"). Gotta track them through a mini game that seems fun. As your hunting skill in a path increases, you can find 'better' human targets that can drop better aspects of that color. These humans can also be ghouled, and ghouling a target of your chosen 'color' is important because when you later send that ghoul on missions they will bring back rewards aligned with that path. You then send your ghoul to an Establishment where you can assign it missions, based on your merits/prestige/influence (seems like that terminology could be streamlined into a single concept). As a ghoul run missions they gain XP/levels.

Bloodcrafting is all about improving your gear (aspects). You can turn it back into 'essence' that crafts other stuff, alter its properties or enhance it. It takes vitae.

Ooh this is good. Heres the system for control of properties/establishments. Need the support of enough 'prestigious' players to make your ghouls control an Establishment, at which point your ghoul there becomes its Dominus and it becomes your hunting ground, meaning it pays you Vitae over time. Thats the blood economy I wanted. Higher level Establishments are harder to control, but pay more. Other players may try to sabotage your control over an Establishment or support it. Sabotaging is a mini game that simulates an attack on the Establishment. Lose too many times and the Dominus ghoul may be killed, opening the Establishment for takeover.

Combat in World of Darkness is fast, beautiful, and deadly. There are a number of things to k!now about combat to be effective.

Taking damage reduces your Willpower first. Willpower starts regenerating on its own after not b!eing hit for a while. If your Willpower is reduced to zero, you begin taking Health damage, the ring inside of the willpower glow. Health doesn’t recover on its own. You must feed to heal. Beautiful design.

Blood and Vitae are two different things. Blood is essentially your classic mana, used to power disciplines, refueled by feeding on mortals or enemies. Vitae is the currency. However if you have no Vitae left, you cannot regenerate Willpower, meaning you're taking Health damage all the time and can't sprint.

Quote
If you become incapacitated by a player or NPCs, you can be revived by another player. You revive another through the action rose ("E"). If that is not an option, you can Shroud back to
your Haven in torpor, but any items in your personal inventory will remain behind in a pile of ashes with your name on it. Other people can steal your Essences until you return to gather
them.

Diablerie
You can diablerize an incapacitated player by activating the action rose. If you are diablerized by another player, you are forced back to your Haven. The diablerizing
Player steals some Aspects from you and some Aspects are destroyed. They also get any inventory items and any unequipped Aspects. Performing diablerie costs Humanity. T!he lower your Humanity, the more Aspects you will lose through diablerie.In order to secure your Essences and Aspects, you can store them in your Haven Inventory tab
w!hile in your Haven.


Well damn. Partial Aspect destruction and aspect theft were in. Thats real "player looting" in this system, albeit partial and at humanity cost, but this is something you guys would have liked that I argued against. Your stuff in your haven is always safe, and griefers (with low humanity, logically), make their own stuff more at risk until they buy back their humanity with XP. A bit like in UO where if you were Red your death penalties would be greater. Perhaps they'd have made it so that at Humanity 10 aspect loss was very unlikely.

Broods/Guilds have a nice twist. They are hierarchical. You automatically join your sire's brood, though you can leave. Broods are hierarchical because you don’t join the Brood as a whole. Rather, you are blood bound to a specific player in the Brood. Each player can only bond to one other player in the Brood at a time, but a player can have many other players bound to him. This means that every member of the Brood automatically has the ability to get new players into a Brood. Members of t!he same Brood as you count as “allies” for certain gameplay mechanics. If you choose to 'Defect' from a brood, you can take all the people under you with you, though they are still free to leave your new brood and rebind to their old one. A bit different and novel.

Players earn Tribute equal to any Vitae they earn during gameplay. When Brood members meet with their Brood sire in person, they can pay her respect selecting "Pay Respect" .... Half of the Tribute you have earned in game is then g!iven to them as Vitae, and you receive the other half as Vitae. In essence, paying respect to your Brood sire generates free Vitae. In order to maximize your game experience, it is vital that you meet with your sire and pay respect on a regular basis. << pretty cool.

Fighting, feeding, and using Disciplines near mortals is a violation of the Tradition of the Masquerade. If a mortal observes you perform a vampiric action, you can silence her by beating
her unconscious or using a Dominate or Majesty power on her before the timer runs out. If you do not silence them in time, you will lose some Humanity. As such, staying near Mortals is
s!lightly safer than other areas, but you can still be attacked by other players near them. << great mechanic. Havens and Elysiums are totally safe, being near mortals make you 'safer' but not safe.

Players are 'protected' (Ankh near their names) after spending time in Elysium or Haven, and stay so as long as they dont initiate PVP -any attack against a protected player causes some humanity loss. Thats a pretty solid price tag that would likely have allowed people uninterested in PVP to rarely get attacked. I like. However it seems a bit easy to go on a spree and then regain 'protected' by hanging out in Elysium.

Permadeath; The only way to permadie is to get diablerized while you are at zero humanity. As I hoped.

Purchasing Past Lives is the concept of spending resources (Im sure this would have been replaced by RMT currency), to buy back "XP potential" dating back all the way to launch. So if you start late, you can buy the right to have as much "potential" XP to unlock with Vitae as older players. "resources" can also allow you to respec your XP character. No cap on XP besides the fact you can only earn up to 10 per day, meaning the most active Kindred would keep rising in power, albeit with solid dimnishing returns.

That's it. Now I want this game again :D
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Nigama on May 01, 2014, 05:29:23 pm
While I certainly would have liked them to create something a bit more outside of the mainstream box, I'd be kidding if I said I wouldn't be playing it right now.

Nigama
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Rick Gentle on May 01, 2014, 06:08:20 pm
The supported builds in the playtest are Melee DPS/Tank.
If that's the way the developers were thinking of Clans and the game, that tells me everything I need to know. I wouldn't have played more than a month or two of the WODMMO as designed this way.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Valamyr on May 01, 2014, 06:59:17 pm
The supported builds in the playtest are Melee DPS/Tank.
If that's the way the developers were thinking of Clans and the game, that tells me everything I need to know. I wouldn't have played more than a month or two of the WODMMO as designed this way.

I'm not sure how to respond to that. Like me you had genuine hopes and passion for the project, and we talked about it alot. And like me, you won't be able to enjoy it because it's not happening and that's just sad. I'm certainly not getting any schadenfreude out of this, it's a sad realization that it'll never come to pass.

But the positions you defended were often hopeless and clashed with the realistic possibilities that the genre allows. The game you wanted could hardly be a commercial success, so I knew you'd be disappointed to some extent - or that the game would be an abject commercial failure. This was meant to be a MMORPG, with everything that entails, and as sandboxy and out-of-the-box as you try to make one...

*best Lacroix impersonation*

Let tonight's proceedings serve as a reminder to our community that we must.. adhere to the code that binds our society, lest we endanger all of our MMOs. Forgive me.  :vampwink:

There'll be new Vampire MMOs and there will be new sandbox MMOs. But the very basics are always going to be there. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but while designers will sometimes try to think outside the box, the box itself is there to stay. We'll have novelties and variants, now and then. But if you take issue with something as basic as class roles, it's possible that you may never come to love the genre like I do.

This being said, we're all mourning a dream; a dream we all saw differently, but that we all wanted to see regardless. In this we're probably all more united than we've been in any of our discussions about the mechanics we hoped to see. Let's hope that someday, this IP will be done justice.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: VampireBill on May 02, 2014, 11:55:04 pm
And now CCP announced they're working on a "reimagining" of DUST 514, for PC...  :facepalm:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-05-02-ccp-re-imagines-ps3-shooter-dust-514-for-pc-as-project-legion (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-05-02-ccp-re-imagines-ps3-shooter-dust-514-for-pc-as-project-legion)
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Nigama on May 03, 2014, 04:35:40 am
Hilmar also said some stuff that to us would sound like betrayal but ultimately came across as "the WoD is dead, Eve is our sole focus going forward." 

It also looks like they have repurposed the atmospheric effects and lingo (emergent game play, player run economy) from the WoD in the new Project Legion push (although I saw none of the latter in their demo video, it just looks like Dust with better graphics and Eve compatibility).

Oh well. 

I think at this point we just run a tabletop game with 7-9 very different players with different playstyles and let them create the new founding bloodlines and then build a new game from there.  I swear, we could do it, all we need is our own lore.  Imagine what would happen if we just did the basic opening scenario of a potential MMO... there is no vampire society at all, then 7-9 people are randomly embraced... what society do they form?  what do they call themselves?  do they align politically or by blood?  Set in a modern/realistic world but darker and grittier.  White Wolf/CCP owns none of this.


Nigama
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Radical21 on May 03, 2014, 04:46:15 am
Our own lore? does this mean we are going to develop a new "Vampire RPG" from creation with our own ruleset?(or do you still want to use the V20 ruleset)

I think it would be fun to develop this starting with a game set in early civilization with 7-9 players each creating their character with unique powers they favor ( see  https://forums.planetvampire.com/?topic=6430.0 (https://forums.planetvampire.com/?topic=6430.0) for ideas) and starting as progenitors of a new vampire mythos?

Of course we can't use anything directly from WoD then and forum games tend to go somewhat slow so we might have to use some other medium.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Rick Gentle on May 03, 2014, 05:44:34 am
OR...

Wait for it...

Vampire Pirates In Space!!

Which is the RPG I've been working on. I need to seriously play-test the rules, too. Conflict resolution is weak, but I've got the basic premises for all actions down.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Radical21 on May 03, 2014, 06:03:48 am
OR...

Wait for it...

Vampire Pirates In Space!!

Which is the RPG I've been working on. I need to seriously play-test the rules, too. Conflict resolution is weak, but I've got the basic premises for all actions down.

?
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Nigama on May 04, 2014, 02:42:53 am
Our own lore? does this mean we are going to develop a new "Vampire RPG" from creation with our own ruleset?(or do you still want to use the V20 ruleset)

Rule set doesn't matter at all... what we're creating is an IP, not a tabletop RPG.  That said there are plenty of generic RPG rule sets like GURPS.  Or we could use the V20 rules that we need since we're familiar with them.  Or we could use V20's rules and change all the dice to D12's.  As White Wolf (Richard Thomas) said many times, they don't own the dice pool system.  They stole it from Shadowrun and changed the D6 to a D10.

Quote
I think it would be fun to develop this starting with a game set in early civilization with 7-9 players each creating their character with unique powers they favor ( see  https://forums.planetvampire.com/?topic=6430.0 (https://forums.planetvampire.com/?topic=6430.0) for ideas) and starting as progenitors of a new vampire mythos?

Pretty much exactly what I'm thinking, but I'd prefer all of it unfold more organically, during play instead of "pick which cool power you want!"  I'm more interested to see what people really do, how they classify or group themselves, how they build power, etc.  I'm okay with a starting set of powers that fall in line with things typically associated with the vampire mythos (shapeshifting, strength, speed or toughness, etc) than say illusion crafting a la the Ravnos or ice generation a la Iceman.  That said, I think all vampires should have access to all the powers.  If one particular vampire uses one particular power very frequently, that could be a power that is bought at less XP price by that vampire's progeny (in the modern days, when the regular game would be set).

Was actually looking at the various vampire stories and into some of Bram Stoker's sources.  Interesting stuff.  Was reading about the Scholomance or the Devil's School.  Lot of good stuff from Romania.

Also was thinking about origin stories... Dracula cursed God and drank blood upon learning his love had killed herself thinking he was dead.  Anne Rice's vampires were created from some vengeful witches and a powerful spirit they summoned.  Lost Boys never delves into the question of vampire origins; vampires just are.  Oddly enough, the Romanian myths I was looking at don't seem to address vampire origins either.  Traditionally, vampires made other people into vampires by killing them (we're left to assume by exsanguination, but it could be more broadly defined... having your throat slit by a vampire, for example, might count in some traditions).  The draining and then giving back of the blood seems to have been taken directly from Anne Rice.  The original superstitions (that I've read) don't go into how the first one became a vampire.  Maybe a restless human spirit or one not properly buried.  The superstitions over there run deep and there's all kinds of ways one could run afoul of the supernatural world.

I mention those three sources especially because those are the main pillars that V:tM was made from.  In thinking things over, I think I like the "unknown" origins best.  This allows us to free ourselves from the Christianity influence in Vampirism, which is very strong given the dark parallels with Jesus' rising after death and that the origin of the vampire myths comes from such a heavily Christian location.

Quote
Of course we can't use anything directly from WoD then and forum games tend to go somewhat slow so we might have to use some other medium.

I think you might be surprised what we CAN use directly from WoD because THEY ripped it from elsewhere.  In court, that will be a GREAT counterargument to any claims we are copying their IP.  The blood bond is in Dracula between Lucy and Dracula.  The powers of vampirism are well known from myth and superstition.  Wrestling with the loss humanity is inherent to vampires.  We can have vampire werewolves (or is it werewolf vampires?), we just can't call them Abominations.  Draining a vampire dry and gaining their power/memories/insights is in Anne Rice's Queen of the Damned, but we probably couldn't call it Diablerie.  We could have Ghouls but again, we'd have to call them something else (Servitors, Vassals); Dracula had the gypsies and clearly ghouled Lucy.

Clans are definitely their thing, but I find clans nearly useless once  you're into the game setting.  It's just a nice handle for new players to be able to grab ahold of the game and not be frightened away by seeming complexity.  No need for Generation (doesn't really work with out a master creator vampire anyway), we could easily come up with blood empowerment scale, like age.

So really... besides Clans, the only things we'd really have to change is the setting itself (which is the point) and the terminology of any concepts that White Wolf created the names for.

Nigama
also yeah... different medium than the forum... it's good for it's own slow pace but we'd need to get this done faster
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Radical21 on May 04, 2014, 04:42:00 am
Rule set doesn't matter at all... what we're creating is an IP, not a tabletop RPG.  That said there are plenty of generic RPG rule sets like GURPS.  Or we could use the V20 rules that we need since we're familiar with them.  Or we could use V20's rules and change all the dice to D12's.  As White Wolf (Richard Thomas) said many times, they don't own the dice pool system.  They stole it from Shadowrun and changed the D6 to a D10.


I agree

Honestly I have kind of a love-hate relationship with White-wolf's rule style even after they fixed it,  so while it might be decent to start with V20 for the sake of developing lore.
I hope we can come up with something better in the future ,
 maybe even a near - dice-less system that is easier to balance but for now I think building the lore is more important.



Quote

Pretty much exactly what I'm thinking, but I'd prefer all of it unfold more organically, during play instead of "pick which cool power you want!"  I'm more interested to see what people really do, how they classify or group themselves, how they build power, etc.  I'm okay with a starting set of powers that fall in line with things typically associated with the vampire mythos (shapeshifting, strength, speed or toughness, etc) than say illusion crafting a la the Ravnos or ice generation a la Iceman.  That said, I think all vampires should have access to all the powers.  If one particular vampire uses one particular power very frequently, that could be a power that is bought at less XP price by that vampire's progeny (in the modern days, when the regular game would be set).

Was actually looking at the various vampire stories and into some of Bram Stoker's sources.  Interesting stuff.  Was reading about the Scholomance or the Devil's School.  Lot of good stuff from Romania.

Also was thinking about origin stories... Dracula cursed God and drank blood upon learning his love had killed herself thinking he was dead.  Anne Rice's vampires were created from some vengeful witches and a powerful spirit they summoned.  Lost Boys never delves into the question of vampire origins; vampires just are.  Oddly enough, the Romanian myths I was looking at don't seem to address vampire origins either.  Traditionally, vampires made other people into vampires by killing them (we're left to assume by exsanguination, but it could be more broadly defined... having your throat slit by a vampire, for example, might count in some traditions).  The draining and then giving back of the blood seems to have been taken directly from Anne Rice.  The original superstitions (that I've read) don't go into how the first one became a vampire.  Maybe a restless human spirit or one not properly buried.  The superstitions over there run deep and there's all kinds of ways one could run afoul of the supernatural world.

I mention those three sources especially because those are the main pillars that V:tM was made from.  In thinking things over, I think I like the "unknown" origins best.  This allows us to free ourselves from the Christianity influence in Vampirism, which is very strong given the dark parallels with Jesus' rising after death and that the origin of the vampire myths comes from such a heavily Christian location.

There are a myriad of other sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire#Description_and_common_attributes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire#Description_and_common_attributes)
and we could also take norse and greek mythology stories as inspirations

I think it depends on how we start and how are the monsters we create related to one another:
And yeah it could be some family cursed by a witch to live out their drama for the rest of eternity but I find that concept kind of boring (sorry Vampire diaries fans)

Quote
I think you might be surprised what we CAN use directly from WoD because THEY ripped it from elsewhere.  In court, that will be a GREAT counterargument to any claims we are copying their IP.  The blood bond is in Dracula between Lucy and Dracula.  The powers of vampirism are well known from myth and superstition.  Wrestling with the loss humanity is inherent to vampires.  We can have vampire werewolves (or is it werewolf vampires?), we just can't call them Abominations.  Draining a vampire dry and gaining their power/memories/insights is in Anne Rice's Queen of the Damned, but we probably couldn't call it Diablerie.  We could have Ghouls but again, we'd have to call them something else (Servitors, Vassals); Dracula had the gypsies and clearly ghouled Lucy.

Clans are definitely their thing, but I find clans nearly useless once  you're into the game setting.  It's just a nice handle for new players to be able to grab ahold of the game and not be frightened away by seeming complexity.  No need for Generation (doesn't really work with out a master creator vampire anyway), we could easily come up with blood empowerment scale, like age.

So really... besides Clans, the only things we'd really have to change is the setting itself (which is the point) and the terminology of any concepts that White Wolf created the names for.

Nigama
also yeah... different medium than the forum... it's good for it's own slow pace but we'd need to get this done faster

I agree, though the concept of clans is derived from the Lineage Vampires typically inherit ('kill the head vampire to cure everyone') so I think we should have our own lineage aspect to give vampires characters another avenue they can use to interact.

Realtime mediums:
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Rick Gentle on May 04, 2014, 05:44:43 am
Stranded Rick's Vampires Space pirates  in 10000BC (lol) who meet the indigenous population
That's actually fairly plausible, given the setting I'm envisioning. There's lots of technology that the average person (or vampire) doesn't understand, and there are lots of stellar phenomena that wreak havoc with our conception of time and physics... Vampire Pirates in Space!! is supposed to be a mix of Vampire: The Masquerade, Warhammer 40K, and Gamma World, and I think the wackiness of the third game could easily encompass time travel.

As to dice-rolling... I have two general methods of conflict resolution right now, and only one of them calls for rolling a dice. (I'm planning on incorporating both, as some situations call for the randomness of a die roll, while others don't.) I'm still not decided between making it a d6 (the most common form of dice) or a d10 system. I don't want to get into a d20-based-system for fear that it'll just keep scaling out of hand like stats in D&D do.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Radical21 on May 04, 2014, 06:10:11 am
Oh I meant it more in the sense of Alien intervention as a background to pre-metalage vampires or so which is more speculative fiction and far less 'high fantasy' than it sounds.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Nigama on May 04, 2014, 07:02:29 am
1 is prolly best and the people researching should also be the people writing.

It's not always possible.

Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Radical21 on May 04, 2014, 10:51:18 am
1 is prolly best and the people researching should also be the people writing.

It's not always possible.

Someone would need to take the lead on this project and be the Editor so it would end up as something cohesive, I assume that is you.
 I'm in if possible, just let me know how and when I can contribute.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Leorgrium on May 10, 2014, 01:13:56 am
the russian communty made any wallpapers of world of darkness:

http://imgur.com/a/LaaOK? (http://imgur.com/a/LaaOK?)
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Rick Gentle on May 11, 2014, 03:35:37 pm
Those are pretty sweet. I'm gonna save a couple of them. I always liked the cityscape concept art rendition that was released a couple years ago. I had that was a wallpaper for a long time.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Leorgrium on July 01, 2014, 10:50:36 am
from wodgame.ru:
http://wodgame.ru/2014/06/29/kak-my-eto-delaem/ (http://wodgame.ru/2014/06/29/kak-my-eto-delaem/)

The wod russian community is working on their own world of darkness mmo...
a few screenshots:

(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g121/Leorgrium/Sketch1.jpg)

(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g121/Leorgrium/HowWeDo1.jpg)

(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g121/Leorgrium/HowWeDo2.jpg)
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: dbs on July 02, 2014, 09:10:44 am
Seems like a C&D waiting to happen to me.

Personally would think it better if they simply draw inspiration from WoD and build their own game around that rather.
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Radical21 on July 02, 2014, 08:24:37 pm
Seems like a C&D waiting to happen to me.

Personally would think it better if they simply draw inspiration from WoD and build their own game around that rather.

I think its more of a statement aimed at CCP
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: ADSixx on October 26, 2015, 11:20:02 pm
Don't know if it means anything (this is CCP we're talking about after all!) but in the recent 'apology and admission of partial guilt' video released from CCP with CCPSeagull, I noticed on her shirt sleeve the classic White Wolf Game Studios logo.

As a company there's been rumblings of financial and creative issues piling up.  (it's not normal for there to be this many Plex discount sales so close together, looks like a cash grab to cover sumthin')  Who knows?  They might re-boot the WoD MMO build just to try and get a larger subscription base for their quarterly financial reports.  Hope they do revive the idea, and it be something other than their usual over-promise/under-deliver.  For an example of that ongoing issue with promises, they still haven't opened the frikken door.

If CCP does give WoD MMO another attempt, really hoping it's Old and not New.  At least in my locale, Old is where it still is, New was a waste.  But I'd settle for either at this point.

>AD
Title: Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
Post by: Nigama on October 26, 2015, 11:36:24 pm
Amen, brutha. Lemme go check that ish out. EDIT: Punks. They don't deserve to wear that insignia on their company shirt. They should hide their heads in shame.
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