collapse

Author Topic: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)  (Read 13820 times)

Offline Valamyr

  • Kindred
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 1317
Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
« Reply #45 on: May 01, 2014, 01:45:39 PM »
Blood...crafting...?
snip

All makes sense to me, to be honest. Things like a blood economy and the choice of skipping being a mortal, these are things I'd have put in. I see they were planning on letting you use your ghoul to run timer based 'missions' for you like crafting in Neverwinter, which is rapidly becoming a hallmark of F2P games (you can pay to make it go faster...). Cool city and atmosphere. Game engine looks dated as suspected, but they had a good art direction. Seems to have put time in building extensive tutorials. Controls look solid.

I liked that they took freedom to make new stats and disciplines, not sticking too closely to PnP materials that wouldnt translate too well directly to the computer. Redemption tried 'by the book', Bloodlines cut some corners, the MMO would have finally broken out of the mold.

Still getting a strong 'pure sandbox hidden under a sprawling tutorial' vibe, though. No clear evidence of alot of the two other spheres of play. Would have been possible to play the game casually running missions, gathering vitae to power up and messing around with your ghouls and playing dress up, with the real action focusing around PvP for prestige and influence and hopefully titles.  Seems they wizened up on alot of design points, but just did not have the resources to go on, which is a shame.

No huge surprises. This is still something I'd have played alot.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 03:40:44 PM by Valamyr »

Offline Valamyr

  • Kindred
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 1317
Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
« Reply #46 on: May 01, 2014, 03:39:13 PM »
http://wodmmo.ru/world-of-darkness-posleslovie/ 

Translate the page from Russian and enjoy. Thanks to Leogrium for showing me this. The biggest "bombshell" is these documents linked in the article:

https://docviewer.yandex.com/?url=ya-disk-public%3A%2F%2FjBtVWEj6jI1LSCSyKH%2FrkotjmHYrHtsl%2BdOXr8sZT3o%3D&name=marchwalkthrough.pdf&page=0&c=535ee9cdd05f

Oh okay, I missed this. Well fuck screenshots then, this is the whole package. After reading this I can conclude that yes, they were building a realistic MMO. Most of the common sense MMO concepts and logic I argued for over the years find Redemption as you read through this. Its really most of what I wanted and that some of you argued against, but at the same time, it makes the fact its dead more painful. I'm summarizing the good stuff with some cuts and pastes. Forgive the exclamation points, its from pasting from that doc.

Can move haven locations. It sounds like at this point they had not yet managed to make Havens truly customizable, instead they had a few 'Haven options' you could pick from in various parts of the city, that were pre-customized. 

Humanity IS as I guessed the 'play nice policy and obey vampire law' package; "Masquerade violations, attacking other players, and looting other players trigger Humanity loss. At 0 Humanity, you can be perma-killed." Permadeath only at humanity zero, but you can buy back humanity or even avoid losing it altogeter. Looks fine, though "looting other players" is worrysome, it sounds like they were going for character growth through character improvement rather than loot, which made this okay.

Vitae
Money. Traded between vampires as “blood money” and treated as currency to buy XP. << Yup. Sorry Rick. Loved that concept.

Merits that you earn by playing the game, giving you prestige, which in turn impacts how much 'ghoul missions' will reward you.

Tribute
Players pay respect to their Brood Sire, and half of their Tribute turns into free Vitae (in-game money). The other half is given to your sire as Tribute that she can give to her sire. > Cool little pyramid scheme ;) Asherons Call flashback.

Brood = Name for guilds.

Aspects
Equipment and power-ups. These Blood Aspects enhance your character and act similar to g!ear/equipment/fittings in other games. << There we go, this is why you can loot people. Its because the true power cant be looted, its part of who you are.

Public feeding is a Masq violation unless you seduce first, like in Bloodlines.

"Hunting" mini game to track a "prey" to gain vitae.

No decay of Vitae over time. You use it for everything, its money, its XP, its by some abilities. Perfect. You have to be at your haven to turn vitae into xp through "torpor". Okay.

You 'equip" disciplines to a restricted amount of slots, and you 'equip' aspects (gear equivalent) to the equivalent of an inventory window with pre-defined slots. Aspects can be traded (makes sense since its like gear), not disciplines. You can trade Aspects, Essences for Bloodcrafting, unused ghouls, and Vitae.

Oh, theres actually clans were in, not 3. The 3 avatars are just that, skins, which suggest that they were not very far into allowing in-game character customization. They were still putting in the 7 base clans. Each Clan has 3 disciplines with 3 sub-powers.

Brujah!
Anarchs and rebels, the Brujah used to try and change the world through politics and
philosophy, now they do it with their fists. This Clan is considered for the advanced player as
their magic use requires more thought, strategy and game understanding to be effective. The
supported builds in the playtest are Melee DPS/Tank.
 
Base Discipline Powers: !
• Potence
• Leap – Supernaturally jump a great distance!
• Earthshock – Slam the ground in front of you, knocking back and damaging all enemies
caught in the blast!
• Unholy Blood – Attacks cause bonus physical damage, with extra damage caused to
enemies with low Willpower.!
• Celerity!
• Blur - Move quickly to a target (with bad animations)!
• Flurry - Throw triple punch!
• Raging Blood - Increase blood trickle and movement speed for a short time!
• Majesty!
• Awe - Single-target soft taunt/detaunt!
• Kindred Aura - Allows you to pick between a suite of aura buffs for your allies!
! • Rally - Point-blank Area of Effect Willpower heal over time for your allies!

Toreador!
Lovers of the arts, they are quick, lithe, and seductive. The supported builds in the playtest are
M! elee DPS and Support/Melee DPS.!
Base Discipline Powers:!
• Auspex!
• Aura Perception - Allows you to tag and debuff defenses of a target from long range!
• Mirror Reflex - Passively gives you a damage bonus for one attack after using a discipline
on your target; gives a defensive buff when activated!
• Sixth Sense - Reveals entities within a range regardless of line of sight, and allows you to
see them and use abilities on them for a short while (currently not working in client)!
• Celerity!
• Blur - Move quickly to a target (with bad animations)!
• Flurry - Throw triple punch!
• Raging Blood - Increase blood trickle and movement speed for a short time!
• Majesty!
• Awe - Single-target soft taunt/detaunt!
• Kindred Aura - Allows you to pick between a suite of aura buffs for your allies!
! • Rally - Point-blank Area of Effect Willpower heal over time for your allies!

Tremere
Wildly intelligent blood witches. This Clan is considered for the advanced player, as their magic
use requires more thought, strategy, and game understanding to be effective. The supported
b!uilds in the playtest are Ranged DPS and CC/Ranged DPS.!
Base Discipline Powers:!
• Auspex!
• Aura Perception - Allows you to tag and debuff defenses of a target from long range!
• Mirror Reflex - Passively gives you a damage bonus for one attack after using a discipline
on your target; gives a defensive buff when activated!
• Sixth Sense - Reveals entities within a range regardless of line of sight, and allows you to
see them and use abilities on them for a short while (currently not working in client)!
• Dominate!
• Command - Roots your target!
• Obedience - Slows enemies around you!
• Tyrant's Gaze - Drains Willpower over time to your target!
• Thaumaturgy!
• Cauldron of Blood - Deal damage and slow your target while channeling!
• Nexus - Place a mystical nexus that buffs your mental abilities and allows you to teleport
back to it!
• Ward of Destruction - Place a ward on the ground with a short delay before it activates that
deals damage when someone enters it!

Ventrue!
Regal and tough leaders who can take large amounts of damage. The supported builds in the
p!laytest are CC/Tank and Support/Tank.!
Base Discipline Powers:!
• Dominate!
• Command - Roots your target!
• Obedience - Slows enemies around you!
• Tyrant's Gaze - Drains Willpower over time to your target!
• Fortitude!
• Iron Will - Gain a temporary Willpower shield!
• Safeguard - Take some of the damage that an ally would receive!
• Stoicism - Passively reduces physical damage taken!
• Majesty!
• Awe - Single-target soft taunt/detaunt!
• Kindred Aura - Allows you to pick between a suite of aura buffs for your allies!
• Rally - Point-blank Area of Effect Willpower heal over time for your allies!!

I love it. The MMO terminology used will probably make some of you cringe ;) But a MMO is what I wanted. The 7 Clans would really have felt like fairly different classes.

Everyone has a "warp to haven" Ability (shroud). Everyone can toggle at will between melee and ranged basic attacks (claws and pistols). Sprint that drains willpower.

Elysiums totally blue/safe zones with no combat possible :) Hubs for chat and trade.

Standard MMO communication ; /whisper, /Brood, /group, /say, and /local.

Colors on the map and minimap indicates where content is of appropriate difficulty for you. You can really see that character progression was in as much as in any other MMO. Further down we see Blood Potency is a level-equivalent mechanic.

Establishments can be owned by players.

Feeding is similar to bloodlines. Killing mortals when feeding (their life bar empties) also lowers Humanity, so if you play it too close and overfeed you may end up having to pay XP to buy back humanity.

Vitae represents the the power, experience, and mystical energy that flows through a vampire’s blood. Vampires value Vitae over money, and they will often exchange it by feeding from each
o!ther for things they value within the world
. Looks like the Blood Bond only works on ghouls. Vampires feed from each other to open a trading window. Hahaha I love it.

V!itae is generated by sending ghouls on missions in Establishments (and Hunting I believe?) Because Vitae represents experience, players can also use it to increase stats and learn new
s!kills or Disciplines.

Vitae can't be turned into XP "At will". You can only buy up to 10 XP worth per real day, limiting the progression, and "only the most influential and dedicated will be able to earn the full amount". But "Unpurchased XP points do not expire. They just roll over, and you can buy them at that same c!ost any time." The costs per XP in terms of Vitae keep going up.

They had an online/web platform, Conclave, which would have likely become simultaneously forums, ways to check each others characters, rankings, read news on the game, etc.

"Paths of Enlightenment" are basically a color-code for Aspects that add stat bonuses and help players choose Aspects that fit their desired playstyle. For example, "Path of the Damned, yellow, (Crowd Control, Vision, Magic) (+1 Intelligence per Aspect) Good for Tremere!" So any Yellow Aspect would be "Mage gear". Increasingly obvious that though they were really creative with names, they were trying to have a core MMORPG design in place.

Aspects must be infused in order, you can only have a Lv4 Aspect if you already have 1,2,3 in that path.

T!he total number of Aspects that a player can infuse is based on her Blood Potency. Spending XP increases Blood Potency. You gain Blood Potency 2 after spending 8 XP, and this
allows you to fit and use Aspects. Blood Potency increases your base Health, the size of your B!lood Reserve, and the number of Aspects you can equip.
>> Well there ARE levels after all. Quite obvious that Blood Potency is a level-equivalent mechanic.

You hunt for specific exceptional humans that can sometimes drop Aspects you desire ("as they had the right life experiences"). Gotta track them through a mini game that seems fun. As your hunting skill in a path increases, you can find 'better' human targets that can drop better aspects of that color. These humans can also be ghouled, and ghouling a target of your chosen 'color' is important because when you later send that ghoul on missions they will bring back rewards aligned with that path. You then send your ghoul to an Establishment where you can assign it missions, based on your merits/prestige/influence (seems like that terminology could be streamlined into a single concept). As a ghoul run missions they gain XP/levels.

Bloodcrafting is all about improving your gear (aspects). You can turn it back into 'essence' that crafts other stuff, alter its properties or enhance it. It takes vitae.

Ooh this is good. Heres the system for control of properties/establishments. Need the support of enough 'prestigious' players to make your ghouls control an Establishment, at which point your ghoul there becomes its Dominus and it becomes your hunting ground, meaning it pays you Vitae over time. Thats the blood economy I wanted. Higher level Establishments are harder to control, but pay more. Other players may try to sabotage your control over an Establishment or support it. Sabotaging is a mini game that simulates an attack on the Establishment. Lose too many times and the Dominus ghoul may be killed, opening the Establishment for takeover.

Combat in World of Darkness is fast, beautiful, and deadly. There are a number of things to k!now about combat to be effective.

Taking damage reduces your Willpower first. Willpower starts regenerating on its own after not b!eing hit for a while. If your Willpower is reduced to zero, you begin taking Health damage, the ring inside of the willpower glow. Health doesn’t recover on its own. You must feed to heal. Beautiful design.

Blood and Vitae are two different things. Blood is essentially your classic mana, used to power disciplines, refueled by feeding on mortals or enemies. Vitae is the currency. However if you have no Vitae left, you cannot regenerate Willpower, meaning you're taking Health damage all the time and can't sprint.

Quote
If you become incapacitated by a player or NPCs, you can be revived by another player. You revive another through the action rose ("E"). If that is not an option, you can Shroud back to
your Haven in torpor, but any items in your personal inventory will remain behind in a pile of ashes with your name on it. Other people can steal your Essences until you return to gather
them.

Diablerie
You can diablerize an incapacitated player by activating the action rose. If you are diablerized by another player, you are forced back to your Haven. The diablerizing
Player steals some Aspects from you and some Aspects are destroyed. They also get any inventory items and any unequipped Aspects. Performing diablerie costs Humanity. T!he lower your Humanity, the more Aspects you will lose through diablerie.In order to secure your Essences and Aspects, you can store them in your Haven Inventory tab
w!hile in your Haven.


Well damn. Partial Aspect destruction and aspect theft were in. Thats real "player looting" in this system, albeit partial and at humanity cost, but this is something you guys would have liked that I argued against. Your stuff in your haven is always safe, and griefers (with low humanity, logically), make their own stuff more at risk until they buy back their humanity with XP. A bit like in UO where if you were Red your death penalties would be greater. Perhaps they'd have made it so that at Humanity 10 aspect loss was very unlikely.

Broods/Guilds have a nice twist. They are hierarchical. You automatically join your sire's brood, though you can leave. Broods are hierarchical because you don’t join the Brood as a whole. Rather, you are blood bound to a specific player in the Brood. Each player can only bond to one other player in the Brood at a time, but a player can have many other players bound to him. This means that every member of the Brood automatically has the ability to get new players into a Brood. Members of t!he same Brood as you count as “allies” for certain gameplay mechanics. If you choose to 'Defect' from a brood, you can take all the people under you with you, though they are still free to leave your new brood and rebind to their old one. A bit different and novel.

Players earn Tribute equal to any Vitae they earn during gameplay. When Brood members meet with their Brood sire in person, they can pay her respect selecting "Pay Respect" .... Half of the Tribute you have earned in game is then g!iven to them as Vitae, and you receive the other half as Vitae. In essence, paying respect to your Brood sire generates free Vitae. In order to maximize your game experience, it is vital that you meet with your sire and pay respect on a regular basis. << pretty cool.

Fighting, feeding, and using Disciplines near mortals is a violation of the Tradition of the Masquerade. If a mortal observes you perform a vampiric action, you can silence her by beating
her unconscious or using a Dominate or Majesty power on her before the timer runs out. If you do not silence them in time, you will lose some Humanity. As such, staying near Mortals is
s!lightly safer than other areas, but you can still be attacked by other players near them. << great mechanic. Havens and Elysiums are totally safe, being near mortals make you 'safer' but not safe.

Players are 'protected' (Ankh near their names) after spending time in Elysium or Haven, and stay so as long as they dont initiate PVP -any attack against a protected player causes some humanity loss. Thats a pretty solid price tag that would likely have allowed people uninterested in PVP to rarely get attacked. I like. However it seems a bit easy to go on a spree and then regain 'protected' by hanging out in Elysium.

Permadeath; The only way to permadie is to get diablerized while you are at zero humanity. As I hoped.

Purchasing Past Lives is the concept of spending resources (Im sure this would have been replaced by RMT currency), to buy back "XP potential" dating back all the way to launch. So if you start late, you can buy the right to have as much "potential" XP to unlock with Vitae as older players. "resources" can also allow you to respec your XP character. No cap on XP besides the fact you can only earn up to 10 per day, meaning the most active Kindred would keep rising in power, albeit with solid dimnishing returns.

That's it. Now I want this game again :D
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 03:47:48 PM by Valamyr »

Offline Nigama

  • Dead
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 1883
Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
« Reply #47 on: May 01, 2014, 05:29:23 PM »
While I certainly would have liked them to create something a bit more outside of the mainstream box, I'd be kidding if I said I wouldn't be playing it right now.

Nigama
"You may not remember us, but we may be responsible for your lack of memory."

Offline Rick Gentle

  • Gangrel Playboy
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 3057
Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
« Reply #48 on: May 01, 2014, 06:08:20 PM »
The supported builds in the playtest are Melee DPS/Tank.
If that's the way the developers were thinking of Clans and the game, that tells me everything I need to know. I wouldn't have played more than a month or two of the WODMMO as designed this way.
Remember: It's not the size of your fangs that matters; it's what you stick them in.

Offline Valamyr

  • Kindred
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 1317
Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
« Reply #49 on: May 01, 2014, 06:59:17 PM »
The supported builds in the playtest are Melee DPS/Tank.
If that's the way the developers were thinking of Clans and the game, that tells me everything I need to know. I wouldn't have played more than a month or two of the WODMMO as designed this way.

I'm not sure how to respond to that. Like me you had genuine hopes and passion for the project, and we talked about it alot. And like me, you won't be able to enjoy it because it's not happening and that's just sad. I'm certainly not getting any schadenfreude out of this, it's a sad realization that it'll never come to pass.

But the positions you defended were often hopeless and clashed with the realistic possibilities that the genre allows. The game you wanted could hardly be a commercial success, so I knew you'd be disappointed to some extent - or that the game would be an abject commercial failure. This was meant to be a MMORPG, with everything that entails, and as sandboxy and out-of-the-box as you try to make one...

*best Lacroix impersonation*

Let tonight's proceedings serve as a reminder to our community that we must.. adhere to the code that binds our society, lest we endanger all of our MMOs. Forgive me.  :vampwink:

There'll be new Vampire MMOs and there will be new sandbox MMOs. But the very basics are always going to be there. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but while designers will sometimes try to think outside the box, the box itself is there to stay. We'll have novelties and variants, now and then. But if you take issue with something as basic as class roles, it's possible that you may never come to love the genre like I do.

This being said, we're all mourning a dream; a dream we all saw differently, but that we all wanted to see regardless. In this we're probably all more united than we've been in any of our discussions about the mechanics we hoped to see. Let's hope that someday, this IP will be done justice.

Offline VampireBill

  • Neonate
  • **
  • Posts: 87
Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
« Reply #50 on: May 02, 2014, 11:55:04 PM »
And now CCP announced they're working on a "reimagining" of DUST 514, for PC...  :facepalm:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-05-02-ccp-re-imagines-ps3-shooter-dust-514-for-pc-as-project-legion

Offline Nigama

  • Dead
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 1883
Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
« Reply #51 on: May 03, 2014, 04:35:40 AM »
Hilmar also said some stuff that to us would sound like betrayal but ultimately came across as "the WoD is dead, Eve is our sole focus going forward." 

It also looks like they have repurposed the atmospheric effects and lingo (emergent game play, player run economy) from the WoD in the new Project Legion push (although I saw none of the latter in their demo video, it just looks like Dust with better graphics and Eve compatibility).

Oh well. 

I think at this point we just run a tabletop game with 7-9 very different players with different playstyles and let them create the new founding bloodlines and then build a new game from there.  I swear, we could do it, all we need is our own lore.  Imagine what would happen if we just did the basic opening scenario of a potential MMO... there is no vampire society at all, then 7-9 people are randomly embraced... what society do they form?  what do they call themselves?  do they align politically or by blood?  Set in a modern/realistic world but darker and grittier.  White Wolf/CCP owns none of this.


Nigama
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 04:39:05 AM by Nigama »
"You may not remember us, but we may be responsible for your lack of memory."

Offline Radical21

  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 3023
Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
« Reply #52 on: May 03, 2014, 04:46:15 AM »
Our own lore? does this mean we are going to develop a new "Vampire RPG" from creation with our own ruleset?(or do you still want to use the V20 ruleset)

I think it would be fun to develop this starting with a game set in early civilization with 7-9 players each creating their character with unique powers they favor ( see  https://forums.planetvampire.com/?topic=6430.0 for ideas) and starting as progenitors of a new vampire mythos?

Of course we can't use anything directly from WoD then and forum games tend to go somewhat slow so we might have to use some other medium.

Offline Rick Gentle

  • Gangrel Playboy
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 3057
Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
« Reply #53 on: May 03, 2014, 05:44:34 AM »
OR...

Wait for it...

Vampire Pirates In Space!!

Which is the RPG I've been working on. I need to seriously play-test the rules, too. Conflict resolution is weak, but I've got the basic premises for all actions down.
Remember: It's not the size of your fangs that matters; it's what you stick them in.

Offline Radical21

  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 3023
Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
« Reply #54 on: May 03, 2014, 06:03:48 AM »
OR...

Wait for it...

Vampire Pirates In Space!!

Which is the RPG I've been working on. I need to seriously play-test the rules, too. Conflict resolution is weak, but I've got the basic premises for all actions down.

?

Offline Nigama

  • Dead
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 1883
Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
« Reply #55 on: May 04, 2014, 02:42:53 AM »
Our own lore? does this mean we are going to develop a new "Vampire RPG" from creation with our own ruleset?(or do you still want to use the V20 ruleset)

Rule set doesn't matter at all... what we're creating is an IP, not a tabletop RPG.  That said there are plenty of generic RPG rule sets like GURPS.  Or we could use the V20 rules that we need since we're familiar with them.  Or we could use V20's rules and change all the dice to D12's.  As White Wolf (Richard Thomas) said many times, they don't own the dice pool system.  They stole it from Shadowrun and changed the D6 to a D10.

Quote
I think it would be fun to develop this starting with a game set in early civilization with 7-9 players each creating their character with unique powers they favor ( see  https://forums.planetvampire.com/?topic=6430.0 for ideas) and starting as progenitors of a new vampire mythos?

Pretty much exactly what I'm thinking, but I'd prefer all of it unfold more organically, during play instead of "pick which cool power you want!"  I'm more interested to see what people really do, how they classify or group themselves, how they build power, etc.  I'm okay with a starting set of powers that fall in line with things typically associated with the vampire mythos (shapeshifting, strength, speed or toughness, etc) than say illusion crafting a la the Ravnos or ice generation a la Iceman.  That said, I think all vampires should have access to all the powers.  If one particular vampire uses one particular power very frequently, that could be a power that is bought at less XP price by that vampire's progeny (in the modern days, when the regular game would be set).

Was actually looking at the various vampire stories and into some of Bram Stoker's sources.  Interesting stuff.  Was reading about the Scholomance or the Devil's School.  Lot of good stuff from Romania.

Also was thinking about origin stories... Dracula cursed God and drank blood upon learning his love had killed herself thinking he was dead.  Anne Rice's vampires were created from some vengeful witches and a powerful spirit they summoned.  Lost Boys never delves into the question of vampire origins; vampires just are.  Oddly enough, the Romanian myths I was looking at don't seem to address vampire origins either.  Traditionally, vampires made other people into vampires by killing them (we're left to assume by exsanguination, but it could be more broadly defined... having your throat slit by a vampire, for example, might count in some traditions).  The draining and then giving back of the blood seems to have been taken directly from Anne Rice.  The original superstitions (that I've read) don't go into how the first one became a vampire.  Maybe a restless human spirit or one not properly buried.  The superstitions over there run deep and there's all kinds of ways one could run afoul of the supernatural world.

I mention those three sources especially because those are the main pillars that V:tM was made from.  In thinking things over, I think I like the "unknown" origins best.  This allows us to free ourselves from the Christianity influence in Vampirism, which is very strong given the dark parallels with Jesus' rising after death and that the origin of the vampire myths comes from such a heavily Christian location.

Quote
Of course we can't use anything directly from WoD then and forum games tend to go somewhat slow so we might have to use some other medium.

I think you might be surprised what we CAN use directly from WoD because THEY ripped it from elsewhere.  In court, that will be a GREAT counterargument to any claims we are copying their IP.  The blood bond is in Dracula between Lucy and Dracula.  The powers of vampirism are well known from myth and superstition.  Wrestling with the loss humanity is inherent to vampires.  We can have vampire werewolves (or is it werewolf vampires?), we just can't call them Abominations.  Draining a vampire dry and gaining their power/memories/insights is in Anne Rice's Queen of the Damned, but we probably couldn't call it Diablerie.  We could have Ghouls but again, we'd have to call them something else (Servitors, Vassals); Dracula had the gypsies and clearly ghouled Lucy.

Clans are definitely their thing, but I find clans nearly useless once  you're into the game setting.  It's just a nice handle for new players to be able to grab ahold of the game and not be frightened away by seeming complexity.  No need for Generation (doesn't really work with out a master creator vampire anyway), we could easily come up with blood empowerment scale, like age.

So really... besides Clans, the only things we'd really have to change is the setting itself (which is the point) and the terminology of any concepts that White Wolf created the names for.

Nigama
also yeah... different medium than the forum... it's good for it's own slow pace but we'd need to get this done faster
« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 02:49:36 AM by Nigama »
"You may not remember us, but we may be responsible for your lack of memory."

Offline Radical21

  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 3023
Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
« Reply #56 on: May 04, 2014, 04:42:00 AM »
Rule set doesn't matter at all... what we're creating is an IP, not a tabletop RPG.  That said there are plenty of generic RPG rule sets like GURPS.  Or we could use the V20 rules that we need since we're familiar with them.  Or we could use V20's rules and change all the dice to D12's.  As White Wolf (Richard Thomas) said many times, they don't own the dice pool system.  They stole it from Shadowrun and changed the D6 to a D10.


I agree

Honestly I have kind of a love-hate relationship with White-wolf's rule style even after they fixed it,  so while it might be decent to start with V20 for the sake of developing lore.
I hope we can come up with something better in the future ,
 maybe even a near - dice-less system that is easier to balance but for now I think building the lore is more important.



Quote

Pretty much exactly what I'm thinking, but I'd prefer all of it unfold more organically, during play instead of "pick which cool power you want!"  I'm more interested to see what people really do, how they classify or group themselves, how they build power, etc.  I'm okay with a starting set of powers that fall in line with things typically associated with the vampire mythos (shapeshifting, strength, speed or toughness, etc) than say illusion crafting a la the Ravnos or ice generation a la Iceman.  That said, I think all vampires should have access to all the powers.  If one particular vampire uses one particular power very frequently, that could be a power that is bought at less XP price by that vampire's progeny (in the modern days, when the regular game would be set).

Was actually looking at the various vampire stories and into some of Bram Stoker's sources.  Interesting stuff.  Was reading about the Scholomance or the Devil's School.  Lot of good stuff from Romania.

Also was thinking about origin stories... Dracula cursed God and drank blood upon learning his love had killed herself thinking he was dead.  Anne Rice's vampires were created from some vengeful witches and a powerful spirit they summoned.  Lost Boys never delves into the question of vampire origins; vampires just are.  Oddly enough, the Romanian myths I was looking at don't seem to address vampire origins either.  Traditionally, vampires made other people into vampires by killing them (we're left to assume by exsanguination, but it could be more broadly defined... having your throat slit by a vampire, for example, might count in some traditions).  The draining and then giving back of the blood seems to have been taken directly from Anne Rice.  The original superstitions (that I've read) don't go into how the first one became a vampire.  Maybe a restless human spirit or one not properly buried.  The superstitions over there run deep and there's all kinds of ways one could run afoul of the supernatural world.

I mention those three sources especially because those are the main pillars that V:tM was made from.  In thinking things over, I think I like the "unknown" origins best.  This allows us to free ourselves from the Christianity influence in Vampirism, which is very strong given the dark parallels with Jesus' rising after death and that the origin of the vampire myths comes from such a heavily Christian location.

There are a myriad of other sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire#Description_and_common_attributes
and we could also take norse and greek mythology stories as inspirations

I think it depends on how we start and how are the monsters we create related to one another:
  • -they could be each written with their own unique creation myth at different places
  • or a single progenitor as it tends to be in VTM, Dracula,Legacy of Kain etc
  • They could all start out as members of the same cavemen tribe or neighboring tribes
  • Stranded Rick's Vampires Space pirates  in 10000BC (lol) who meet the indigenous population
And yeah it could be some family cursed by a witch to live out their drama for the rest of eternity but I find that concept kind of boring (sorry Vampire diaries fans)

Quote
I think you might be surprised what we CAN use directly from WoD because THEY ripped it from elsewhere.  In court, that will be a GREAT counterargument to any claims we are copying their IP.  The blood bond is in Dracula between Lucy and Dracula.  The powers of vampirism are well known from myth and superstition.  Wrestling with the loss humanity is inherent to vampires.  We can have vampire werewolves (or is it werewolf vampires?), we just can't call them Abominations.  Draining a vampire dry and gaining their power/memories/insights is in Anne Rice's Queen of the Damned, but we probably couldn't call it Diablerie.  We could have Ghouls but again, we'd have to call them something else (Servitors, Vassals); Dracula had the gypsies and clearly ghouled Lucy.

Clans are definitely their thing, but I find clans nearly useless once  you're into the game setting.  It's just a nice handle for new players to be able to grab ahold of the game and not be frightened away by seeming complexity.  No need for Generation (doesn't really work with out a master creator vampire anyway), we could easily come up with blood empowerment scale, like age.

So really... besides Clans, the only things we'd really have to change is the setting itself (which is the point) and the terminology of any concepts that White Wolf created the names for.

Nigama
also yeah... different medium than the forum... it's good for it's own slow pace but we'd need to get this done faster

I agree, though the concept of clans is derived from the Lineage Vampires typically inherit ('kill the head vampire to cure everyone') so I think we should have our own lineage aspect to give vampires characters another avenue they can use to interact.

Realtime mediums:
  • OpenRPG.com :free
  • RPtools.net : free
  • Skype, Googletalk, MSN : free, no map interface
  • VTM:Redemption: Although it has a major disadvantage of very small chat window
  • Fantasy Grounds: expensive

Offline Rick Gentle

  • Gangrel Playboy
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 3057
Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
« Reply #57 on: May 04, 2014, 05:44:43 AM »
Stranded Rick's Vampires Space pirates  in 10000BC (lol) who meet the indigenous population
That's actually fairly plausible, given the setting I'm envisioning. There's lots of technology that the average person (or vampire) doesn't understand, and there are lots of stellar phenomena that wreak havoc with our conception of time and physics... Vampire Pirates in Space!! is supposed to be a mix of Vampire: The Masquerade, Warhammer 40K, and Gamma World, and I think the wackiness of the third game could easily encompass time travel.

As to dice-rolling... I have two general methods of conflict resolution right now, and only one of them calls for rolling a dice. (I'm planning on incorporating both, as some situations call for the randomness of a die roll, while others don't.) I'm still not decided between making it a d6 (the most common form of dice) or a d10 system. I don't want to get into a d20-based-system for fear that it'll just keep scaling out of hand like stats in D&D do.
Remember: It's not the size of your fangs that matters; it's what you stick them in.

Offline Radical21

  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 3023
Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
« Reply #58 on: May 04, 2014, 06:10:11 AM »
Oh I meant it more in the sense of Alien intervention as a background to pre-metalage vampires or so which is more speculative fiction and far less 'high fantasy' than it sounds.

Offline Nigama

  • Dead
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 1883
Re: Former CCP dev claims WoD might have been cancelled (NOW Confirmed)
« Reply #59 on: May 04, 2014, 07:02:29 AM »
1 is prolly best and the people researching should also be the people writing.

It's not always possible.

"You may not remember us, but we may be responsible for your lack of memory."