Paradox buys White Wolf from CCP! Should we get our WoDMMO hopes up?

[Radical21]

Just seen this
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads%2Fparadox-interactive-acquires-white-wolf-publishing-from-ccp-games.888941%2F

"New Paradox Subsidiary will Operate Independently and Manage All White Wolf Properties, Including World of Darkness and Vampire: The Masquerade"

Hard to tell how they will approach this but Paradox helped publish some indie titles like Mount&Blade and many others. also looking at their portfolio most of the games developed at Paradox are the kind of historic setting that can work with some settings of WoD so this gives hope.

[Valamyr]

I heard about this and I was excited for sure, even though obviously it'll take several years to lead to anything. But Paradox wouldn't have bought the rights just to sit on it. And anything is better news than it being shelved indefinitely.

I have a certain amount of access at Paradox as a long-time beta tester for several of their grand strategy titles but they've not said a word and will likely not say a word about it until much, much later in the development process. I wouldn't even expect an official confirmation that they're working on it for a couple years. But by my estimation, they will be.

Now, Paradox excels at grand strategy. If you ever played EU4 or CK2 or the upcoming HOI4, that's their strengths. That's what I beta for them. RPGs, not so much - they had to can a project for a Norse-themed RPG earlier this year because despite two years of development, it wasn't good enough. My best guess is that they'll be sub-liscensing the IP to Obsidian like people were guessing in the other thread - but either way, I'm happy something will happen with it even if its a decade late on CCP's original schedule.

[Nigama]

Welcome back, Val! Great to see you again! 

[Valamyr]

Thanks :) I've never been truly gone, after all we all sat through nearly a decade of high expectations and crushing disappointment on CCP's attempt and failure. To make matters worse, the leaked docs when they finally gave up was exactly the kind of game I was hoping for all along (though some here clearly disagreed). It was pretty sad to see it die, and I could do with a revival for sure.

One thing that's very important to note is that this acquisition included *all assets and code* that has been developed for WODMMO according to mmorpg.com - meaning that they likely bought it to continue work towards the MMO rather than a single player project. AND the project will be headed by Martin Ericsson, senior content designer on CCP's failed attempt. He probably knows what went wrong and must have a vision as to how to do better. Given Paradox owns the work done so far, no matter whether they choose to build a team in-house or sublicense Obsidian - we could actually be playing WODMMO by 2020 IMO.

 

[Radical21]

One thing that's very important to note is that this acquisition included *all assets and code* that has been developed for WODMMO according to mmorpg.com - meaning that they likely bought it to continue work towards the MMO rather than a single player project. AND the project will be headed by Martin Ericsson, senior content designer on CCP's failed attempt. He probably knows what went wrong and must have a vision as to how to do better. Given Paradox owns the work done so far, no matter whether they choose to build a team in-house or sublicense Obsidian - we could actually be playing WODMMO by 2020 IMO.

Oh good to know, I was curious about that part.  2020, that is more than 4 years now , i'd be an old geezer by then but admittedly I'd be happy with anything they release by now as long as its not utterly bad.

 Technology is improving at a remarkable rate though , Have you seen MMO projects like Landmark or Everquest Next for example? you know, stuff people said could never work in an MMO a couple of years back: so who knows where we will be in 4 years, I just tested UE4's demos on my new 64bit PC (980GTX + i7 6700k) and it looks  kind of photo real amazing. I wonder if that is what being an old geezer feels like, that feeling that things are changing so fast people could land on mars a short time after tomorrow..

[Wesp5]

Given Paradox owns the work done so far, no matter whether they choose to build a team in-house or sublicense Obsidian - we could actually be playing WODMMO by 2020 IMO.

But it looks to me as if Paradox and Obsidian never were into MMOs and after even the SW MMO is free to play now I would wonder if they would take this risk instead of creating a single player RPG for which Obsidian is known. The maps and other assets from the MMO prototype could surely be used for that too. Also I wonder how this whole thing would collide with Project Dogmat, especially as they claimed they are using assets from the cancelled MMO as well.

P.S.: As for Unreal 4, I don't know about the demos, but the actual games I have seen using this new engine (Haunted House and The Park) were not very impressive at all, so there is no gurantee just because of an engine.

[Nigama]

But it looks to me as if Paradox and Obsidian never were into MMOs and after even the SW MMO is free to play now I would wonder if they would take this risk instead of creating a single player RPG for which Obsidian is known. The maps and other assets from the MMO prototype could surely be used for that too. Also I wonder how this whole thing would collide with Project Dogmat, especially as they claimed they are using assets from the cancelled MMO as well.

In the Dogmat thread, Signo just posted a video from the Dogmat peoples' Youtube channel. In it, they flash to the character sheet which looks like an exact copy of the WoD sheet with some group rep stuff attached and a few additions like Essence.

So I'm sure we'll see other areas where they have blatantly copied. Not sure how much it will matter.

[Signothorn]

In the Dogmat thread, Signo just posted a video from the Dogmat peoples' Youtube channel. In it, they flash to the character sheet which looks like an exact copy of the WoD sheet with some group rep stuff attached and a few additions like Essence.

So I'm sure we'll see other areas where they have blatantly copied. Not sure how much it will matter.

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how the new White Wolf handles this. I can understand and accept multiple paths they could take, but what I hope is they get feedback like Kalypso got with "Dark", and let them continue. If WW doesn't intend to pursue a MMO, they might not see it as competition so much, idk.

Let's face it though, since the WoD MMO failed and CCP didn't ever really reach out to communities, time has passed and there have been attempts by others to fill the void that created. WW no longer has the corner on the market on vampire RPG's. There have been encouraging statements from WW over the last few days, and it seems to me, they understand the loyal following they have left and perhaps how to build on that. The efforts of other projects essentially have to create audiences from WW's, and in the case of Dogma and Vaulderie, were pretty much born from CCP's inability to deliver what people wanted. The next year or so will be interesting.

[Valamyr]

Though it's best to avoid blatant violations of copyrights, obviously, I don't mind at all a little competition. If there's two potentially good Vampire-themed MMORPGs being developed, we halve our chances of being ultimately disappointed and reduce the risk of seeing another CCP-like cashcow plan. You all remember that even if the original WOD MMO had come to fruition, they were still planning to milk us in triplicate with monthly fees, AND RMT (Plex-like) AND game-breaking microtransactions ("Items of power") and plain silly ones (monocles). Hopefully Paradox will be much less greedy; a little healthy competition can't hurt there.

Finally, we're not all looking for the same things in a MMO. When the WOD full doc leaked, I was crushed by how good that game I'd never play looked on paper while some others here hated it. Two potential Vampire MMOs means much greater odds that one will cater to your specific playstyle and tastes. Oh god, we're going to have the permadeath and day-night cycle fights all over again, won't we?   

[Wesp5]

Finally, we're not all looking for the same things in a MMO. When the WOD full doc leaked, I was crushed by how good that game I'd never play looked on paper while some others here hated it.

I'm not into MMOs at all, but the best thing would probably be if Paradox licenced the MMO to the Project Dogmat people and would have Obsidian make a single player RPG for the rest of us :)!

[Radical21]

But it looks to me as if Paradox and Obsidian never were into MMOs and after even the SW MMO is free to play now I would wonder if they would take this risk instead of creating a single player RPG for which Obsidian is known.

Historically some of the best MMOs come from companies who didn't know how to make them. I say this because nowadays making an MMORPG is not the rocket-science it used to be (still hard but there are plenty of things to make it easier). From game engines that give strong multiplayer support out of the box to cloud servers specifically for hosting MMORPGs.

And the fact that companies that did indeed made MMOs in the past tend to shoot for either some mainstream cashout with shitty f2p-P2W microtransactions or are not as passionate about that specific MMO project (hi CCPgames) or both.

On the other hand : Companies that are new to the MMO Arena tend to come with some original platforms and gameplay while still shooting for something that is technologically very feasible and well planned.

I'm not saying that MMO veterans are all bad either , like I said before I was very impressed with what I've seen of Project Landmark or Star Citizen but then I look at companies like Perfect World and their many MMO games , not so inspiring..

Also like I said many times before , I'd happily buy a new refurbished VTMR 2.0 multiplayer game with better UI/UX , better modding support, better graphics engine and better multiplayer support.