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Author Topic: Who awoke Christof?  (Read 5741 times)

Offline henridelbosque

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Who awoke Christof?
« on: November 25, 2013, 05:00:56 PM »
Hello to everybody,

Recently i've grown an interest in VTM and I am reading all I can about the lore. I have a question about the lore of VTMR: in the modern nights, who was the one who awoke christof of his topor?

When i played that part of the game o thought it was ecaterina, but now I really doubt it.

Any light about this topic?

btw, excuse my bad english :/

Offline Signothorn

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Re: Who awoke Christof?
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2013, 05:52:50 PM »
Wilhelm insists Ecaterina gave up on him being alive years ago. I thought it was Lebusa, the  Tzimisce goul.

Offline Aloysius

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Re: Who awoke Christof?
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2013, 07:04:12 PM »
Last redemption playthrough is far for me, but wasn't it Anezka who awoke Christof? I vaguely remember one of her head's copy popping out of a flesh wall and said: "I pray for the return of the only man that Vudovlak is fearing, Christof." Or something like that.

Offline Rick Gentle

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Re: Who awoke Christof?
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2013, 09:30:05 PM »
When Christof awakens in the cinematic of Part III: London, I'm 86% certain it's Anezka's voice saying (paraphrased): "Christof, awaken! You are in great danger!". Ecaterina's voice is huskier, and Libussa's is moanier.
Auspex is a Tzimisce Discipline, and when you get into the advanced powers you get to be able to call out to people around the world. (I think that's a Presence advanced power, too.) If it was Anezka using this power, then it would be in her own mental voice; I don't think these kinds of powers can be used through a proxy.

Christof, perhaps in the fugue brought about by awakening from torpor, thought it was Ecaterina, as he mentions to Wilhelm in the Giovanni warehouse. If Ecaterina had the power to awaken him from torpor, there's no good reason why she should wait that long to do so. Anezka, on the other hand, is aware of how close Vukodlak is to awakening, and might be able to contact Christof now that he's in closer proximity to her (London being closer to New York than Prague is close to New York). If Christof was sent into torpor because of damage, it may have taken him this long to start recovering from torpor "naturally" (depending on his Humanity), so he could've been in the process of awakening anyway, and Anezka could sense this.
Anezka certainly doesn't seem very surprised as either Count Orsi or Vukodlak do at seeing Christof again. She doesn't have a "WTF?!" moment, or a moment where she has to recall Christof. When Christof confronts Vukodlak and Anezka (the first time), he then seems to think it was Anezka who awakened him from torpor. I don't remember exactly what Christof says, but Vukodlak goes:
Vukodlak: "Is this true, Anezka?" (with reference to Anezka awakwning Christof from torpor)
Anezka: "Ohh, master, let me fleshcraft his bones into a throne for you!"
Vukodlak: "MUAHAHAHAHA!"
Remember: It's not the size of your fangs that matters; it's what you stick them in.

Offline henridelbosque

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Re: Who awoke Christof?
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2013, 11:54:40 PM »
and how could a mere ghoul awake a non-master vampire being so far away?

Offline Javokis

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Re: Who awoke Christof?
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2013, 04:22:12 PM »
She prayed to God to raise him.
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Offline Rick Gentle

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Re: Who awoke Christof?
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2013, 10:56:51 PM »
And she had a deep and personal relationship with Christof, which I think helps with the Auspex and/or Presence rolls. Though I'm not sure if ghouls can develop level 6+ powers... but Anezka is old enough to develop some strong (Tzimisce in-Clan) Disciplines on her own.
Remember: It's not the size of your fangs that matters; it's what you stick them in.

Offline MoetheMonk

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Re: Who awoke Christof?
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2013, 06:38:26 AM »
I thought that God awoke him. Since no one ever actually takes credit for waking him, and Christof wakes up after Anezka prays to God to wake him.

Offline Nanaloma

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Re: Who awoke Christof?
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2014, 03:55:06 AM »
I thought that God awoke him. Since no one ever actually takes credit for waking him, and Christof wakes up after Anezka prays to God to wake him.

Maybe Cain did it.   :chinscratch:

Offline Javokis

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Re: Who awoke Christof?
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2014, 06:04:25 PM »
I'm actually starting to wonder if Vukodlak summoned him. Think about it; Vukodlak already had an agent in London who knew of Christof's extraction by the Society of Leopold. Had him planted in London to both lead Christof, but delay him. Vukodlak wanted Christof to think Anezka summoned him so that would fuel his will to come to Vukodlak. And finally, Vukodlak asked if Christof would join him, which was his whole intent.

Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer...
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 06:06:27 PM by Javokis »
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Offline Mort

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Re: Who awoke Christof?
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2014, 12:04:33 AM »
I always thought it was either Anezka or Libussa.  Anezka based on what was said at the end of the wall of memory in Cathedral of Flesh.  But also Libussa, based on her last line.

"Now my dark love.  I give you thanks for allowing me to serve you all these years, watching over your sweetly cruel visage in torpor.  My Defilement is complete."

Perhaps it was Libussa giving Vukodlak the big middle finger since  Libussa turned out to be a piece of crap after Anezka took over her duties.
"Ordog, when I said "Give me some gold," I meant to do some cool moves; not drop a bag of gold.."

Offline Javokis

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Re: Who awoke Christof?
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2014, 07:18:25 AM »
I always thought it was either Anezka or Libussa.  Anezka based on what was said at the end of the wall of memory in Cathedral of Flesh.  But also Libussa, based on her last line.

"Now my dark love.  I give you thanks for allowing me to serve you all these years, watching over your sweetly cruel visage in torpor.  My Defilement is complete."

Perhaps it was Libussa giving Vukodlak the big middle finger since  Libussa turned out to be a piece of crap after Anezka took over her duties.

Still doesn't explain how Vukodlak knew and how an agent serving Vukodlak was already waiting for Christof not so far away from the point of his awaken. Vukodlak seems to be the most logically powerful enough vampire to do it and send an agent to "guide" Christof on his "quest." Christof may have been an intended new subject to defile.
"There's nothing wrong with horses dicks, there's nothing wrong with sucking horses dicks." Signo

Offline Mort

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Re: Who awoke Christof?
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2014, 08:06:16 AM »
Could be, though Vukodlak seemed oblivious to it all since he questioned Anezka when Chissy mentioned that Anezka sent summons.
"Ordog, when I said "Give me some gold," I meant to do some cool moves; not drop a bag of gold.."

Offline Javokis

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Re: Who awoke Christof?
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2014, 05:31:34 PM »
I suspect the question was a ploy because Vukodlak was quick to laugh at her witty retort, which only angered Christof more. Everything else seems to support that Vukodlak had some loose ends to tie up... Lucretia and Allesandro - who were finished off with the help of his agent. Vukodlak knew that Christof can tie the loose ends like that knowing how he cleaned house at so many havens in both Prague and Vienna including his Ahzra.
"There's nothing wrong with horses dicks, there's nothing wrong with sucking horses dicks." Signo

Offline Rick Gentle

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Re: Who awoke Christof?
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2014, 01:50:07 AM »
I've always thought of Pink as more of a plot device than an actual integral part of Vukodlak's plan. If Vukodlak could predict events that accurately and that far into the future (with Auspex or just plain good ol' inductive thinking), there's no way he would've been put into torpor in the first place, much less be stopped by two elders and two neonates on the even of 2000.
Vukodlak's repertoire of minions, starting with Libussa and ending with Pink, hasn't been the best selection of dastardly effective mini-bosses I've seen.

Libussa has been completely under Vukodlak's thumb for at least a thousand years; the only reason she speaks out at the very very end is, to my thinking, because Anezka possessed her using Dominate. She was Vukodlak's thrall at least since the Dark Ages (remember her laments outside the convent in Prague).

Ahzra may have been intelligent and effective... at least against mortal miners and superstitious townsfolk, but obviously she had trouble with anybody with an actual sword in their hand. (Admittedly, Christof fights her during the day, when any vampire is weakened, but still. All she would've had to do is fleshcraft his nose and mouth shut and then wait five minutes for him to die.)

Count Orsi is too full of himself and, frankly, idiotic to make an effective servant. I really get the feeling that he would've been considered dead weight after Vukodlak awoke from torpor. (Personally, I consider Orsi's teaming up with Vukodlak to be another plot device, a chance to beat the boss that betrayed you in the earlier half of the game. The only reason we get for the alliance is that Something Happened in the intervening 800 years. Orsi is awfully New Age Ventrue [i.e., money-grubbing and squishy] to be a Sabbat Ventrue antitribu, if you ask me.) If Christof hadn't shown up, Orsi probably would've made a nice midnight snack.

Pink/Abdul al-Hassim was probably the most effective servant, but even then he didn't have the level of skill that I would expect of any Assamite that they let leave Alamut (or that his master would let leave his side, since he was probably Assamite antitribu). He slips at least twice ("Nobody pulls my beard and lives!", and he swears unusually at Dev/Null) and is too ready to reveal himself when Wilhelm shows up (he offers token resistance then launches into his Evil Monologue. Muahaha). He had plenty of chances to off Christof before they reached Allesandro Giovanni; if his primary objective was to actually prevent Christof from interrupting Vukodlak's ritual, there are few better ways than to decapitate the crusader.

These are the reasons I don't believe any of these characters woke up Christof; not only do they lack the inclination, they also lack either the ability and/or the initiative to accomplish the task.

The voice that wakes up Christof is definitely female; the mental signature of the voice is close enough to Ecaterina's that Christof mistakes the summons for her. Wilhelm assures us that she didn't summon him because she, like any sensible vampire who wasn't a raging plot device, assumed he had been destroyed when a castle fell down on top of him. (Orsi, bless his greedy little heart, barely remembers Christof.) Personally, I've always thought the voice was Anezka's (and more to the point, her actual voice actress' voice). The gender is right, the pitch is right, and the accent is right.

Could it have been Vukodlak either playing around with his Auspex or Dominating Anezka into doing it for him? Possibly. But why go through that trouble? (Vukodlak is millennia old; surely he's heard of Occam's Razor by now.) Even if he has the power to awaken a vampire he knows only as an antagonistic acquaintance from a continent away, there'd be no reason to leave a message saying "*beep* Hi, Christof, how ya been? This totally isn't Vukodlak waking you up from torpor, by the way. 'Kay, thanks, bye!" There is a nonsensical contrast between Vukodlak's waking Christof up from torpor, and then sending Pink to stall him just long enough to let Vukodlak wake himself up. If Vukodlak really wanted Christof to join him, and he was as intelligent and thoughtful as some like to think he is, then he would've waited until after he had woken up, solidified his power, and shown Christof all the benefits of joining his team - one of which would be "Not Getting Squashed Because Now I Am At Full Power! Muahaha!" Simpler, more effective, and more secure to simply leave Christof napping, or let him get dissected by the Soceity of Leopold.



I don't know if this screwball has been thrown out yet, but what if it was SERENA'S voice?   :haw:
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 02:13:07 AM by Rick Gentle »
Remember: It's not the size of your fangs that matters; it's what you stick them in.