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Offline Apocalypse

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how active is this game?
« on: December 18, 2018, 04:30:43 PM »
How active is this game anymore? Do people still play? Is it worth modding for again?? Just curious if people actually play it much still? ITs a shame because i thought this game had such potential and they should have tried to kept it going least online

Offline samspin

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Re: how active is this game?
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2018, 06:52:53 AM »
There's still some groups lingering on (myself included, though sporadically as of late due to injuring myself). Getting this game to work online has been patchy since Tunngle closed back in May. What really sucks about that is that Tunngle provided an easy go-to channel for new and old players to meet. Nowadays people wanting to play have to know each other in advance and arrange to connect with each other using ZeroTier, on a network I have set up in advance and do my best to inform people about (see https://www.planetvampire.com/2018/10/news-about-vtmr-online-and-a-one-off-prop-update-for-dark-realm/ ) You will see in that above post that someone still does create content for this game for use in multiplayer. E-mods.net also continues to be the home of Age of Redemption mod.
I spotted your other post: it is possible someone might remember your clan member. If you email Lenora (at belladonnamortis@hotmail.com) it may be possible to get you joined up into a group Facebook chat with other players. I'll PM you with a little more information, please stand by.

Offline Nanaloma

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Re: how active is this game?
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2018, 05:48:18 AM »
What happened to the one prior to Tungle?  Isn't that still available? 

Offline samspin

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Re: how active is this game?
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2018, 06:21:01 AM »
Prior to Tunngle? Little history lesson follows:
Originally this game had an officially supported online service provided by WON.NET when it launched around 2000. One would get access to this by first registering an account online, and then choosing "multiplayer> internet" within the game. After many complicated mergers and de-mergers (involving Valve, Activision and Sierra, etc) the original service finally closed around 2006, probably due to the age of the original code that could not be updated to fix security bugs. Activision retained custody of the original "won.net" domain name but does not use it. Many other games lost official online connectivity at this time too. At this point, anybody still wishing to play had to go their separate ways. In other words, everything became decentralized with no official means to play online. This led to many great roleplayers and storytellers quitting for good, while only people with either technical know-how or patience (some with both!) would remain in contact to find solutions. It is only because the game developers had the forethought to add a LAN option with the intention to allow multiple people to roleplay in the same building... that it is possible to play online via VPNs. This of course requires people to already know each other in advance in order to play, since each player has to establish a connection to one another in advance. Several VPNs existed at the time. For example, at first people used "Hamachi" but it's performance was hit and miss at best. Some people found that they could join other people's hosted chronicles yet their own chronicles would be invisible to everyone else. Tunngle came along around four years later (interestingly around the same time Evolve began development) and this became the de-facto replacement for a central place to play. The reason for this is because it had a virtual lobby one could join to meet other potential players. This came to an end in May 2018 due to problems with GDPR laws. Although I circulated information on how to use Evolve as a suitable replacement, this also closed in October 2018 (technically Evolve's gaming stats merged with Player.me, which does not support VPN functionality). This has created quite a considerable vacuum, as no other VPN service is specifically designed with online LAN gaming in mind! Evolve's makers have since launched a Kickstarter campaign to create "Bowstring VPN"
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bowstring/bowstring-virtual-lan-for-gaming/description
I personally feel it is a very poor choice on their part to launch such a campaign at this time of year with a deadline for end of January. Nobody usually has money right after Christmas, but that's just my opinion. Hopefully they *might* be successful!
Anyway, ZeroTier is now the only practical option for this game, and is still hit and miss, but not nearly as bad as Hamachi.
There is a third party project to re-create the original WON.NET service, albeit using a different domain name and source code acquired by unknown means: https://neuwon.com/
This project requires that each game be patched to edit the domain it looks for from "won.net" to "neuwon.com" to find servers to connect to. Although Vampire has had a patch created by this NeuWon project for download, the login functionality does not appear to work even with a correctly created account. I am not sure the reason for this, and this situation has been the same for around two years. Nonetheless, I will keep an eye on it to see if anything changes. I hope that clears things up a little. I'm sorry it's a bit of a ramble! I also apologize in advance if you already know most of this information Nanaloma, with a quick glance I can see you have been registered on here since 2010. But I hope it helps to know that there's still people out there who still want to play this game.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 06:27:41 AM by samspin »

Offline Nanaloma

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Re: how active is this game?
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2019, 01:53:37 AM »
Hamatchi was the one I was thinking of.  Since my satellite I-net is not compatible with on-line gaming of any sort,  I'm at a disadvantage on the details.  My understanding was that, while not good, playing on Hamatchi was possible but Tungle was better.  I thought perhaps Hamatchi might be better then nothing.  Anyway, I'm not in the loop so my apologies if this wasn't such a good idea.  BTW, thanks for the history - cleared up a lot. 

Offline polvere

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Re: how active is this game?
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2020, 11:54:23 PM »
I'm dying to re-play VTMR in MP - can someone add me to the group if there's still one?

Offline Apocalypse

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Re: how active is this game?
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2020, 04:39:40 AM »
i miss playing online is there a way to play anymore most of the online lans are down i thought???
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 09:22:41 AM by Wesp5 »

Offline spectre47250

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Re: how active is this game?
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2020, 09:17:50 PM »
I found a pretty good VPN that'll work with any game with LAN. it'll globalize your LAN. I tried it out with my stepson using this VPN and over Minecraft Java Edition's LAN. He, at the time, was in Hamilton, Ohio and I, at the same time, was in Madison, Indiana. It worked beautifully. Because VtMR has LAN play, it should work just as beautifully. The VPN is called Radmin VPN. My network name is Vampire The Masquerade Redemption. The password for it is Malkavian5150. Try it out. You may come to thank me for this info. It has a game network option, but it doesn't include VtMR, but you can make your own network for it and I guarantee it'll work for you.

Offline samspin

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Re: how active is this game?
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2020, 03:14:34 AM »
The biggest issue we have is that as the Internet and modern operating systems continue to evolve, this game can never be updated to modern networking standards- unlike Minecraft.
In the glorious old days, all you needed was an Internet connection. You would automatically be given a public IPV4 address by your ISP whether over dial-up or broadband, as most people only had one PC at home and it was directly connected to the Internet with no wireless router in the way giving out private IP addresses. The game was designed when this was common. Eventually when wireless routers became common, it was a requirement to 'port forward' for the game to play online, and then the WON.NET service closed around 2006. This forced people to start using VPNs to play online, although for around the next 6 years it was still common to get a public IPV4 address assigned by your ISP. Unlike today...
As it stands, the game uses an odd peer-to-peer style of connectivity. Modern versions of Windows automatically block this and sometimes you have to resort to completely disabling your firewall in order to allow gaming to play nice whether you host a game or play in another person's game. Otherwise you end up with infuriating situations where you cannot act as a storyteller (host) but can connect to other people's hosted games, and vice versa. Compounding the problem is that in general, VTMR will only allow bi-directional play if the network adapter binding is prioritised first. Most recent versions of Windows 10 have had the option to do this completely removed, as Microsoft believe most people don't need to do this (and as usual, believe they know best). This has led to silly workarounds of having to completely uninstall all ethernet/wifi adapters leaving just the VPN virtual ethernet adapter installed, then reinstalling them. This forces the VPN adapter to the top priority and in most cases allows me and a few other friends still playing this game once week on a Saturday night to play nicely. Oh I wish Tunngle was still around, it could automatically set itself to top priority with various undocumented methods, something lacking in all other VPNs I have tried.
Even then, if you are working on a mobile broadband connection with a private IPV4 address (most mobile ISPs have resorted to Carrier Grade NAT, while giving out public IPV6 addresses that this game cannot use) then you can FORGET IT! You'll never be able to play this game with it no matter what VPN you are using as CGNAT completely breaks the peer-to-peer connectivity the game requires. The only two VPNs I have ever come across that were able to mostly work around this were Tunngle and Evolve, since they were both designed with legacy gaming in mind and had intermediary servers specifically designed to act as proxies to work around CGNAT. Both have closed down due to the lack of ability to fund with advertising since the GDPR has made it impossible to earn enough to run such a service. Therefore your only options are non-game-optimised VPNs such as Radmin, Hamachi (urgh) and Zerotier. You also need to live in a country where ISPs there supply you a publicly routable IPV4 address, usually only available on fixed-line broadband in my case. If you live in a country like Brazil or Russia then you can forget it because most ISPs there use CGNAT due to the severe shortage of public IPV4 addresses, unless you are able to persuade your ISP to let you pay for a dedicated fixed IPV4 address. These factors combined have made it incredibly difficult to play this game online. It is no longer the case that just having an Internet connection is enough, it depends on the *kind* of Internet connection based on the technical factors above. Because of that there are sadly not many of us left, despite how much we wish for the glorious old days when it was so much easier! For the record: those of us still remaining have focused on using Zerotier for the moment. We have tried Radmin briefly around a year ago but it did not work for us at the time, although that was before the discovery of forcing the network adapter to be top priority in Windows. I may try it again, although I'm not sure many would be willing to change at the moment because it is such a faff to get even one VPN working as it is. To try a different VPN we would need to uninstall Zerotier and do all the same 'tricks' all over again. Not many people have the patience to do this- it is really tedious trying to direct people to do this over the phone since it involves temporary causing one to have no Internet connectivity whilst doing it, so no Skype- you have to talk on the phone instead while you're doing it! We are therefore likely to remain on Zerotier until either it no longer works or closes.
*breathes* anyway, I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm having a go, I am just trying to explain how things stand. We really do appreciate the efforts to find a solution that works for everybody, as well as have backup solutions, so I will privately try your Radmin network and let you know the results! We hope for a day that a service as good as Tunngle/Evolve open up with the kind of infrastructure required to reliably play this game on a modern OS and Internet connection. It really breaks my heart the way things are at the moment :/
Finally, since Bee and Lenora are currently on a hosting hiatus due to real life (though still maintain active contact), we only have one active storyteller. My very devoted sister RaggedRobin. Since you need a storyteller to host a game for you, she is your only option if you want a good quality RP experience. If any of you are wanting to play, contacting her is your best bet. Due to real life issues we only play once a week on a Saturday night GMT.

Anyway, I have sent a PM to each of you to extend an invite to try to get a time we can try playing together. Please check your forum inbox!
« Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 04:40:01 AM by samspin »

Offline spectre47250

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Re: how active is this game?
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2020, 07:18:41 PM »
I tried to play a number of old games as old as VtMR over this service and they worked just fine, take Star Trek : Klingon Academy for example. this service bypasses your firewall and opens up your LAN to be a global network, even on Windows 10.

Offline Apocalypse

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Re: how active is this game?
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2020, 04:13:21 AM »
i wished activision would remake this game or release some of its source code. its such a fun game and deserves better if they would release the server code to allow the game to be hosted online
« Last Edit: April 01, 2020, 07:58:10 AM by Wesp5 »

Offline Signothorn

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Re: how active is this game?
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2020, 08:03:03 PM »
i wished activision would remake this game or release some of its source code. its such a fun game and deserves better if they would release the server code to allow the game to be hosted online



I tried reaching out to many people in the past, including Nihilistic's CEO via social media, but to no avail. The source code was likely stored on data tapes back in those days, and even if it does exist somewhere, the tapes may not have lasted.

 

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