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Bloodlines Modding / Re: Modding Questions
« Last post by Barabbah on June 18, 2021, 08:28:53 am »
In my case the console went bananas because placing the PCs models in the folder /models/character/pcn/ (also updating clandoc000.txt) and the companion mod aren't compatible. To recycle the vanilla PCs models as NPCs I had copy them in /models/character/npc/ and edit the map entities....
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Bloodlines Modding / Re: Modding Questions
« Last post by SCO on June 18, 2021, 03:49:33 am »
Has anyone ever seen in the console the text in different colors than white??
Interesting. It seems whatever python or C/C++ library they used as a console might obey color character escapes and that error accidentally triggered one of them? Doesn't make much sense as a hypothesis frankly, they're kind of hard to accidentally trigger, maybe it happened because you mixed utf-8 text on a supposedly ascii file?
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Off Topic / Re: New Vampire Game
« Last post by Rodhen on June 17, 2021, 10:32:45 pm »
This certainly deserves more attention. I was wondering if you were having something else in mind for the future after the suspension of Vaulderie.
I like where this is heading.

When did you start working on this project?
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Speaking of the thin blood powers, in my opinion they were indeed too powerfull right from the start. While the first level ones were only intended to traverse the map, the later ones were close to insta-kills as far I would guess. Like lifting and throwing enemies around, having them been eaten by bats or have them die by suffocation. This is as powerfull as normal disciplines, so why bother to become a full clan vampire?

Also they clearly underestimated the effect that the traversal disciplines would have on map design. Like additonal to brute force, smart talking, vent sneaking, lock picking and computer hacking they now needed to add telekinetic, flying and nebulation solutions too! Which lead to their announcement that you would start with all three traversal powers which of course made you even more powerful and killed the level-up.

I don't think they were overpowered. Like, yes, using mist form to jump down some guy's throat and suffocate him was a one hit kill in the demo but that almost certainly only works on mortal victims. Vampires don't breathe.

Because of EXP being finite, there's an opportunity cost to putting points into anything. Putting points into maxing out a thinblood power means not putting those points into anything else, instead. This makes thinblood powers look like a poor investment, IMO. You could pick up something like thaumaturgy where blood boiler has the same one hit kill effect on mortals but also does damage to supernaturals, right?

If you watch the dev commentary version of the old gameplay demo, I remember them mentioning that ordinary humans aren't meant to be a serious threat to vampires.

I remember them mentioning they changed thinblood powers in the field so you always have access to all of them. I really did not like that change and was planning to mod it out.
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Speaking of the thin blood powers, in my opinion they were indeed too powerfull right from the start. While the first level ones were only intended to traverse the map, the later ones were close to insta-kills as far I would guess. Like lifting and throwing enemies around, having them been eaten by bats or have them die by suffocation. This is as powerfull as normal disciplines, so why bother to become a full clan vampire?

Also they clearly underestimated the effect that the traversal disciplines would have on map design. Like additonal to brute force, smart talking, vent sneaking, lock picking and computer hacking they now needed to add telekinetic, flying and nebulation solutions too! Which lead to their announcement that you would start with all three traversal powers which of course made you even more powerful and killed the level-up.
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I'm not sure I agree. In the pen-and-paper, high level disciplines do make your character into something straight out of the X-Men or Harry Potter. For example, if you have maxed out Celerity, you may as well be The Flash. If you have maxed out Fortitude, you can tank hits like the Juggernaut or something.

You kind of need the special powers component or else vampires are just pale guys who bite people. It's not very interesting, IMO.

If you are refering to the high level, yes, agree. But never saw much fun in that besides plot devices (like not bothering to row dices to and just saying what happened because of the disparity in power levels).



I don't think we're missing out on other components like politics, We haven't seen any evidence that this is the case. If you go back to the old gameplay demo, there were so many dialogue options in every part of every scene. I would say it exactly like the first Bloodlines in this regard where you have disciplines that are primarily for combat but are sometimes also useful in non-combat situations. BL1 had very, very heavy combat sections where disciplines/super powers were pretty much the most consequential factor.
Yes and no. A demo is usually the best "polished" part of the beggining of a game, focusing on aspects the devs think the player-base will like. I REALLY hope I am wrong, but I would not like this game to be like the final parts of Bloodlines: fight after fight after fight. If I want that, I'll go to a common MMo, like Age of Conan.
As for being a "Mary Sue", I feel like a lot of people have lost sight of what this is actually supposed to refer to. Mary Sue was a character from a Star Trek fanfiction story who was inexplicably good at everything. Being good at things does not make you a Mary Sue. A Mary Sue is a character who is good at everything without any justification. You have a justification in VTM and it's a pretty good one. You play a supernatural being who is capable of developing supernatural powers, overtime, by investing EXP into specific disciplines.



Ok, bad example on my part. Apologize. What I wanted to convey is the "special powers" that the player have and that it not necessary has a direct link to the core game - for me it sounds like all the hopps they did to justify a bunch of Clans and events that, if you really take a closer look, had such a slim chance of happening and was so improbable with what is given, that is very difficult to take it serious.


For my (not nowadays, since this pandemic and my new work hours have screwed my tabletop time) games, I don't consider the whole "usurpers" thing for the Tremere (really? A vamp with Auspex 10 and so much wisdow think the best course of action is letting himself be diablerize to "wake up" some time later? Yeah, sure), nor the Giovanni (as a sect, sure, with the original Cappadocian Disciplines), or even some Bloodlines (like the Baali - infernalists I agree can happen, but a Clan with an unique Disciplines I think is stretching too thin for my taste).



And yes, agree on the "not Mary Sue". Bad use of the term. Thanks for the correction.
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I don't have high hopes of that getting scraped, but one can dream.


What I would like is a game that makes you, the player, an important part of the story without making you a Mary Sue. Those powers are too much of a "look at me, I'm spechu" and "Vampire: Super Heroes", missing a keystone of the board game: personal horror and politics.


When executives fail to see why a game gathered so much players that it became a hit when turned into a videogame despise it's flaws is when we have problems. I would bet money that some people left because of that mindset: make the game so broad it missed it's target audience and not having enough flavor to entice a new crownd that could make it profitable.


The age of Underworld games might come back (I don't want it to, but I know it will), but I don't think it will be now.

I'm not sure I agree. In the pen-and-paper, high level disciplines do make your character into something straight out of the X-Men or Harry Potter. For example, if you have maxed out Celerity, you may as well be The Flash. If you have maxed out Fortitude, you can tank hits like the Juggernaut or something.

You kind of need the special powers component or else vampires are just pale guys who bite people. It's not very interesting, IMO.

I don't think we're missing out on other components like politics, We haven't seen any evidence that this is the case. If you go back to the old gameplay demo, there were so many dialogue options in every part of every scene. I would say it exactly like the first Bloodlines in this regard where you have disciplines that are primarily for combat but are sometimes also useful in non-combat situations. BL1 had very, very heavy combat sections where disciplines/super powers were pretty much the most consequential factor.

As for being a "Mary Sue", I feel like a lot of people have lost sight of what this is actually supposed to refer to. Mary Sue was a character from a Star Trek fanfiction story who was inexplicably good at everything. Being good at things does not make you a Mary Sue. A Mary Sue is a character who is good at everything without any justification. You have a justification in VTM and it's a pretty good one. You play a supernatural being who is capable of developing supernatural powers, overtime, by investing EXP into specific disciplines.
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I don't have high hopes of that getting scraped, but one can dream.


What I would like is a game that makes you, the player, an important part of the story without making you a Mary Sue. Those powers are too much of a "look at me, I'm spechu" and "Vampire: Super Heroes", missing a keystone of the board game: personal horror and politics.


When executives fail to see why a game gathered so much players that it became a hit when turned into a videogame despise it's flaws is when we have problems. I would bet money that some people left because of that mindset: make the game so broad it missed it's target audience and not having enough flavor to entice a new crownd that could make it profitable.


The age of Underworld games might come back (I don't want it to, but I know it will), but I don't think it will be now.
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Quote
Again, part of me is glad that they halted Bloodlines 2, because now they can re-think that horrible "Thinblood Superpowers" thing and focus on a good game with good mechanics.
This! Even already Thinblood powers have ruined the game for me.
But i don't think they will change it.

That would be difficult to change considering that thinblood powers aren't just a gimmick. Thinbloods are central to the story. The mystery around the mass embrace is supposed to be game's central storyline or whatever. Early interviews talked about how the main sidequest line is also meeting fellow thinbloods who were in the same mass embrace as you.

As far as the powers go, they're also kind of important. When the developers were talking about the game, they liked to talk about how thinblood powers were used to interact with the environment, like telekinetics being used to pull a key through a barred up space and stuff like that.

When all of the developers are getting paid by the hour, how you spend their time becomes a pretty important issue for project leads and the people who crunch numbers. Arbitrarily walking back on gigantic parts of a game, already in development, doesn't seem plausible, IMO.
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Please, not another Underworld garbage again!
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