Author Topic: Team Camarilla International joins in the fight against CCP  (Read 3791 times)

Offline Zer0Morph

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Team Camarilla International joins in the fight against CCP
« on: November 25, 2014, 10:02:09 PM »
VTM Community,

I personally don't get on the boards much anymore but I saw what had happened to the Vaulderie Project by CCP's legal department and it made me sick to my stomach. As a fellow Bloodlines modder I felt it was my duty to stick up for these hard working, determined, and incredibly talented group of men trying to revive an amazing but flawed gem of a game. I know what it's like to invest hours of love and emotion into a project, but then to have a group of mindless jerks in suits come and shut it down because of fear and ignorance, is beyond me.

Team Camarilla International proudly supports the Vaulderie Project and has made a global announcement (based off of Signothorn's news post) to write to the jerks at CCP. We have a solid 100 users visit our site daily so hopefully this will help the cause.

www.camarillaedition.darkbb.com
-Zer0Morph

Offline Signothorn

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Re: Team Camarilla International joins in the fight against CCP
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2014, 12:03:22 AM »
Thanks! Although I wouldn't personally characterize it as being against CCP proper, more their recent actions and lack thereof, something they can and should change. I only say that because I've been trying to keep it as civil as possible and someone could interpret "fight against CCP" as a reason to simply swear at them ect. I know you don't mean it that way, and thanks again! :rock:
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 12:07:15 AM by Signothorn »

Marked as best answer by Signothorn on November 26, 2014, 01:02:53 AM

Offline Zer0Morph

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Re: Team Camarilla International joins in the fight against CCP
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2014, 12:31:34 AM »
Correct, I didn't mean it in an uncivil kind of way, like an "Us" vs. "Them" sort of thing. You know what I meant, lol. Glad to support the modders and community though.

Offline atrblizzard

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Re: Team Camarilla International joins in the fight against CCP
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2014, 03:07:00 PM »
We, the team and the community truly appreciate your initiate on supporting our cause and to be the ones who can finally destroy this curse that has been haunting Bloodlines for decades.

While Signothorn is right, we all like to keep it as civil and as under control as possible, and as much as we like to keep the dream on happening, it's up to them whether said dream can be fulfilled or crushed.

As many saw this project as the last light at the end of the tunnel for the last hope on reviving the Vampire The Masquerade franchise regarding video games, we tried every possible way to keep the project under legal bounds as much as possible, but since we don't want to step to their legal bounds, as unreasonable as it may be, we can only hope they'll have a change of mind.

Thanks for the support so far Team Camarilla International and Planet Vampire, let's all hope the cause of getting WoD back to the community will be a success!


Offline Blood of Nightmares

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Re: Team Camarilla International joins in the fight against CCP
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2014, 04:50:22 PM »
You know, I think you could try to go with how Transfusion did it to get it legal...

Offline Zer0Morph

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Re: Team Camarilla International joins in the fight against CCP
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2014, 05:34:50 PM »
Anything TCI can do to help Vaulderie, Planet Vampire, Wesp's patches, The CQM Project, The VTM Community as a whole, we are all for it. We are a tight-knit international group of fans who want nothing more than to explore, enjoy, and partake in the beautifully realized World of Darkness unreality that White Wolf created many years ago. We aren't in this for money, fame, or power, but simple pleasure.

With that said, TCI has a host of talent at our disposal, from Childe of Malkav and his python talent, to myself and the creation of The Final Nights and Camarilla Edition, along with many other wonderfully helpful members. Take us and combined with the experience of Wesp, the genius of Burgermeister, and the obvious talent of Atrblizzard and Stephen Webb, and the whole Vaulderie Team, along with many other modders I can't think of right now (Dheu), we have a large pool of talent and passion at our disposal as a whole.

What if... WHAT IF we pooled our resources together, combined with the Unity Engine, imagine the game we could create. CCP can legally prevent us from publishing it publicly, but they can't prevent us from designing, building, and creating it. And if it just so happened to "leak" out to the public, say via torrents, what a shame.  :chinscratch:

It would need to be assembled in secret, underground, in a rebellious manner. Imagine what we could come up with and the hours of Joy so many fans would embark on. When I saw those screenshots of the Discipline radial menu for Vaulderie and the new graphics, icons, textures, shadows, disciplines, my jaw dropped at the possibilities. Redesigned levels, no quest storylines, characters, music, clans, maps, etc... WOW!!

Is this justifiable morally? I think so, as long as nobody makes a dime and it remains FREE forever, I'd say we're morally justified. Perhaps not legally, but morally, and that's more important anyways. Would CCP benefit from the additional sales, knowing people could buy Bloodlines from Steam and then play Vaulderie with the authenticity checker? Absolutely. Who is this hurting? Nobody, who is this helping? Everyone, including CCP.

Just a penny for your thoughts and the ramblings of an old time modder.  :razz:
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 06:31:19 PM by Zer0Morph »

Offline Nosferatu Numbers Station

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Re: Team Camarilla International joins in the fight against CCP
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2014, 01:32:00 AM »
Is this justifiable morally? I think so, as long as nobody makes a dime and it remains FREE forever, I'd say we're morally justified. Perhaps not legally, but morally, and that's more important anyways. Would CCP benefit from the additional sales, knowing people could buy Bloodlines from Steam and then play Vaulderie with the authenticity checker? Absolutely. Who is this hurting? Nobody, who is this helping? Everyone, including CCP.

Just a penny for your thoughts and the ramblings of an old time modder.  :razz:

Just my two cents.  Sales being boosted or not, I think part of the problem is the lack of say on CCP's account.  If they are as non-transparent as I've heard, it's likely they have a disdain to this whole initiative because they don't hold any direction for it and neither do they trust hands they haven't paid for.  So yeah, you'd need to be super secret if you all go ahead with this...just keep in mind that you'll have to do things how CCP have been doing things in silence for it to be released.  It's no international trade agreement like TIPA or whatever but damn will it be treated in the same hostile manner by them.
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Offline Psycho-A

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Re: Team Camarilla International joins in the fight against CCP
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2014, 03:00:18 PM »
I think it's the best way for now is to go TOR or another hidden network, and continue developing as well. Anyway, even if the further release will be the problem, the team will have almost full assets base for any new game.

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Team Camarilla International joins in the fight against CCP
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2014, 08:17:40 PM »
I think it's the best way for now is to go TOR or another hidden network, and continue developing as well.

I disagree. I think it would make more sense to create some expansions to Bloodlines using the tools we already have. Developing in secret for years with no way to really advertise the game once it is released won't work in my opinion. Also my real name is pretty well known in the scene so I won't do anything that could bring CCP to my door...

Offline Nigama

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Re: Team Camarilla International joins in the fight against CCP
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2014, 01:09:10 AM »
Well, while I've never had a problem breaking the law if it was for the right reasons, personally, I'd say create your own mythos using similar templates.

Ugly Kind
Magical Kind
Primal (nature/beast) Kind
Aristocratic/Ruling Kind
Tough Kind
Sneaky Kind
Insane Kind
Egyptian Kind
Roma Kind

I mean, we've already started creating some original blood lineages (who needs Clans?) on this very forum that could be fleshed out and used. Want preternatural quickness?  Increase your Speed Power (who needs Celerity?)  You want to increase how much damage you can absorb? Increase your Toughness Power (who needs Fortitude?)

See what I mean?  As long as you don't use their words or art or directly rip off a concept like an Abomination being a mix of a werewolf/vampire (although you can still have a werewolf/vampire called a Pariah or Freak) they have no legal ground to stand on. They don't own vampires or the supernatural.


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Offline Wesp5

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Re: Team Camarilla International joins in the fight against CCP
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2014, 10:54:52 AM »
As long as you don't use their words or art or directly rip off a concept like an Abomination being a mix of a werewolf/vampire (although you can still have a werewolf/vampire called a Pariah or Freak) they have no legal ground to stand on.

Yes. I think this happened with the game DARK. At first it used several WoD names like Celerity, Presence and similar, but on release they had just changed that...

Offline Javokis

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Re: Team Camarilla International joins in the fight against CCP
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2014, 04:55:28 PM »

See what I mean?  As long as you don't use their words or art or directly rip off a concept like an Abomination being a mix of a werewolf/vampire (although you can still have a werewolf/vampire called a Pariah or Freak) they have no legal ground to stand on. They don't own vampires or the supernatural.


They don't actually own the word abomination, but if you have to use a different synonym for it mind as well take out the thesaurus: http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/abomination
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Offline Nigama

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Re: Team Camarilla International joins in the fight against CCP
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2014, 08:56:43 PM »

See what I mean?  As long as you don't use their words or art or directly rip off a concept like an Abomination being a mix of a werewolf/vampire (although you can still have a werewolf/vampire called a Pariah or Freak) they have no legal ground to stand on. They don't own vampires or the supernatural.


They don't actually own the word abomination, but if you have to use a different synonym for it mind as well take out the thesaurus: http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/abomination

I only mention it because it was the one point they clearly won out on in their court case when they sued the Underworld franchise. They didn't seem to get any traction on the vampire or werewolf "clans" as used in the movies, but the judge ruled that using the term Abomination to refer to a vampire-werewolf hybrid specifically was created as a concept by White Wolf now owned by CCP.

That's why I mentioned it.

Nigama
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Offline Javokis

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Re: Team Camarilla International joins in the fight against CCP
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2014, 12:50:45 AM »
Yes. I recall that and I think it was still a bad call given that the copyright law puts the following under section 102 (b)

(b) In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work.

[edit]

Looking further into the case, the settlement was confidential so it's hard to say which claims actually scored the lawsuit though Nancy A. Collins and her novel "The Love of Monsters" had much more going for it than the general conceptual claims by white-wolf.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 01:01:13 AM by Javokis »
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Offline Nigama

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Re: Team Camarilla International joins in the fight against CCP
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2014, 01:54:43 AM »
Yeah, I had a (brief) conversation with Mike Tinney (former CEO of White Wolf Publishing) in the VIP area at TGM '11 and we talked about the lawsuit and if he was regretful about being so litigious back then, specifically about the Underworld lawsuit. Still, I suppose, hearsay at the end of the day.

Nigama
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