Author Topic: Cease and Desist  (Read 14107 times)

Offline atrblizzard

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Cease and Desist
« on: November 21, 2014, 06:59:09 PM »
Hello Kines and Kindreds, we have a rather sad news to give to you.

We've received a cease and desist e-mail from CCP a while ago on the behalf of the team to cease activity as it's infringing their IP and copyright trademarks. I won't go into too many details here as it's explained in this post.

I'd like to thank everyone for their throughout support, Signothorn and Planet Vampire for hosting the forums while we were migrating to a newer host, and the Vaulderie Team for their countless contribution.

I don't know what else to say, I'm dazzled upon their decision but I suppose we all must move on at some point.

Regards,
Arthur

Offline Michael

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Re: Cease and Desist
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2014, 07:11:49 PM »
I'd write some stuff about CCP, but I don't want to get banned from PV.

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Cease and Desist
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2014, 07:19:36 PM »
We've received a cease and desist e-mail from CCP a while ago on the behalf of the team to cease activity as it's infringing their IP and copyright trademarks.

Damn, that was exactly what I feared when your website vanished! I can only guess that either CCP has a very stubborn lawyer who just stops everything regardless of intention, or they do indeed earn a little bit each time the original Bloodlines is sold, which is still quite a lot during Steam sales, and don't want this money-for-nothing to go away because of a remake.

Still it's a shame to see all your talent go to waste! Any chances that you return to the original Bloodlines and use your knowledge to create an expansion pack or something? I'm sure they won't stop anything which is just a mod to the old game and althought the SDK exists for some time, no new levels have turned up except for the few that we included in the UP...
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 07:40:25 PM by Wesp5 »

Offline Blood of Nightmares

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Re: Cease and Desist
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2014, 07:30:11 PM »
I knew this would happen and actually saw it coming a long time ago, so much with our capitalist system here.

With this case, VTM Bloodlines or any hope of a WoD computer game is officially dead, and it was a dick move for CCP for first cancelling the WoD MMO and now this, way to go of destroying your fan base there.

We've received a cease and desist e-mail from CCP a while ago on the behalf of the team to cease activity as it's infringing their IP and copyright trademarks.

Damn, that was exactly what I feared when your website vanished! I can only guess that either CCP has a very stubborn lawyer who just stops everything regardless of intention, or they do indeed earn a little bit each time the original Bloodlines is sold, which is still quite a lot during Steam sales, and don't want this money-for-nothing to go away because of a remake.

Still it's a shame to see all your talent go to waste! Any chances that you return to the original Bloodlines and use your knowledge to create an expansion pack or something? I'm sure they won't stop anything which is just a mod to the old game and althought the SDK exists for some time now, no new levels have turned up except for the few that we included in the UP...

Of course modding with the old game won't do much though.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 07:33:20 PM by Blood of Nightmares »

Offline Sabbat_stalker

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Re: Cease and Desist
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2014, 07:32:03 PM »
first of all I would like to say fuck you CCP and Activision

Secondly can you still work on the multiplayer part of the game ? or is it because your using assets from the original game ?
My last suggestion is what if you made the mod "based " on vtm or more on the lines of underworld (as in make your own IP )

Words cannot describe my disappointment in theses companies actions I had high hopes that this would revitalise vtm bloodline and open the gates to easier modding

I would like to thank everyone on vauldery team for their work on this project
thank you

lets not give up hope just yet , I am sure we can find a way so that all this amazing work doesnt go to waste

Offline atrblizzard

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Re: Cease and Desist
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2014, 07:35:10 PM »
Damn, that was exactly what I feared when your website vanished! I can only guess that either CCP has a very stubborn lawyer who just stops everything regardless of intention, or they do indeed earn a little bit each time the original Bloodlines is sold, which is still quite a lot during Steam sales, and don't want this money-for-nothing to go away because of a remake.
I'd suspect a lot of personnel change lead this to happen, the less former White Wolf members, the less sympathy for fan projects. We tried to reach to an agreement with them but they have a brand to protect and cannot grant us the permission to develop the project further without being licensed.

Quote
Still it's a shame to see all your talent go to waste! Any chances that you return to the original Bloodlines and use your knowledge to create an expansion pack or something? I'm sure they won't stop anything which is just a mod to the old game and althought the SDK exists for some time now, no new levels have turned up except for the few that we included in the UP...
Might consider it in the future, but not at this moment. Source modding is something I distanced myself from a long time ago and without properly working SDK tools will provide lots of issues throughout development/

Offline Blood of Nightmares

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Re: Cease and Desist
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2014, 07:36:10 PM »
lets not give up hope just yet , I am sure we can find a way so that all this amazing work doesnt go to waste

I don't think there's any hope left and the work is going to waste. So we might as well abandoned ship and the Vampire community would turn just like the Blood, Descent Communities while CCP/Activision would continue to do nothing and sit on their asses on the IP making money out of it. That's what likely would happen.

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Cease and Desist
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2014, 07:46:44 PM »
Of course modding with the old game won't do much though.

This is something I don't really understand. Everyone here wants new VtM content, but nobody is willing to create any! Maybe Unity would have been easier to mod, but I don't believe this would have changed much. The unofficial Source SDK is working fine, the library and Hallowbrook maps show this, and both were efforts by people not used to create levels at all! There are still lots of maps made for the HL2 series which started off at the same time as Bloodlines. Is the VtM community that lazy?
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 07:48:43 PM by Wesp5 »

Offline Sabbat_stalker

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Re: Cease and Desist
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2014, 07:53:44 PM »
I am not going to pretend like I know what I am talking about
but didn't you say you converted certain assets from vtm original to unity if so
is it not possible to converted certain assets from vaulderie to original ? (like the expanded pier map ?)
what about improved texture mod ?

@bloodnightmare there is no need to abandoned the vampire community yet this game is constantly being improved via patch thanks to wesp and antitribu mod is its beta testing stage
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 07:56:52 PM by Sabbat_stalker »

Offline atrblizzard

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Re: Cease and Desist
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2014, 08:05:52 PM »
This is something I don't really understand. Everyone here wants new VtM content, but nobody is willing to create any! Maybe Unity would have been easier to mod, but I don't believe this would have changed much. The unofficial Source SDK is working fine, the library and Hallowbrook maps show this, and both were efforts by people not used to create levels at all! There are still lots of maps made for the HL2 series which started off at the same time as Bloodlines. Is the VtM community that lazy?
Compared to the vast mods and the large community of Half-Life 2 and Source overall, VtM has a small amount of modding community, and these are besides skins. And yet both are using Source and both are the same in modding. I don't think the tools are the problem at all here.

I am not going to pretend like I know what I am talking about
but didn't you say you converted certain assets from vtm original to unity if so
is it not possible to converted certain assets from vaulderie to original ? (like the expanded pier map ?)
what about improved texture mod ?
Maps made in Unity can be converted back into Source map if I am not mistaken, but converting models back to Source is an issue because the current model converter cannot compile skinned models properly. Textures shouldn't be an issue as the TTZ converter works just fine.

Offline Sabbat_stalker

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Re: Cease and Desist
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2014, 08:55:08 PM »
so if I may dare ask what do you have planned atrblizzard now ?
are you going to focus on the original game , continue negotiation and find a middle ground or are you going to take a break (not that anyone would blame you )

Offline Signothorn

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Re: Cease and Desist
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2014, 10:06:57 PM »
Posting this everywhere and I'm sure everyone will get this via email or PM, but forgive my redundancy:

Fellow Kindred and fans of the World of Darkness,

The PC gaming community who has loved VtM: Redemption and Bloodlines needs your immediate help, but it will only take a moment of your time.

As you know, when CCP Games bought White Wolf, they intended to make a World of Darkness MMO. After several years, the development for game unfortunately was canceled. During the coarse of it's development however, CCP Games didn't communicate with the community as much as we were used to with previous VtM releases before the White Wolf purchase. Since the cancellation of the WoD MMO, CCP Games hasn't really communicated at all with the community about it's intentions of whether they will be intending to sell off White Wolf to another developer, licensing the IP to another developer or showing much interest in the WoD at all.

Recently, Project Vaulderie was launched. It was an attempt to port VtM: Bloodlines to a much newer engine (Unity), along with a resource checker to verify the person playing already had Bloodlines. Unlike the Skywind project that Bethesda allowed the Elder Scrolls modding community to make and even promoted to an extent, CCP Games sent the Project Vaulderie team a cease and desist letter. The interest in Project Vaulderie showed there is still a genuine interest in the World of Darkness in PC gaming.

What we would like to do is let CCP Games know we want another VtM or WoD video game. We also want them to acknowledge the and engage the community, communicating through Facebook and Twitter, really ANYTHING. Many in our community don't see CCP Games as a company who really cares about the WoD at this point, and when we try to keep it strong while they decide what to do, they simply write cease and desist letters.

We need all of you, EVERY ONE OF YOU, to post on CCP Games', Eveonline's and White Wolf's Facebook wall (links below). Post it in the comments of their posts if you have to! If you have a Twitter account, also write to @ccpgames. PLEASE BE PROFESSIONAL when doing so, or copy and paste the following, using the hash tags #worldofdarkness and #eveonline:

“CCPGames, we want a new World of Darkness PC Game or remakes of the older games on newer engines! I ask you let us know your intentions for the IP going forward and begin engaging the World of Darkness community on a semi-regular basis!”

https://www.facebook.com/ccpgames

https://www.facebook.com/eveonline EDIT by samspin: Eveonline staff are probably not in a position to help, continuing to contact them on their facebook page is likely going to become an annoyance rather than a genuine call.

https://www.facebook.com/whitewolfpublishing EDIT by samspin: The White Wolf facebook page is not monitored by CCP staff, it is only monitored by White Wolf licencees such as Onyx. Please refrain from using this page to contact CCP.

https://twitter.com/ccpgames

Email: info@ccpgames.com
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 02:56:53 PM by samspin »

Offline Signothorn

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Re: Cease and Desist
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2014, 10:59:37 PM »
Thanks to people who have posted already on their fb page, keep it coming! Twitter! Email!

Offline samspin

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Re: Cease and Desist
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2014, 11:25:34 PM »
As administrator for PV, I'd like to give some of my thoughts. I am deeply disappointed in CCP for their lack of engagement with the community. I have always tried to understand things from both sides, and this has worked to my advantage at times: case in point- I got the old planetvampire.com domain back from IGN, after reaching out to them on behalf of the community. However it seems CCP are unwilling to even give their side of things.

I fully support efforts to reach CCP and make them aware that there is a frenzying fanbase (pun intended!) and they should at the very least make it clear what they intend to do with the White Wolf IP. I can't help noticing that they have removed a lot of references to fan-driven sites, the old "Dark Pack" program for fansites vanished entirely from White Wolf's website once CCP bought them out. It does indeed give the impression that they are unwilling to engage with fans. I also can't help noticing that they allow Wesp to release unofficial patches to the original Bloodlines game (that I am happy to provide bandwidth solutions for) yet point their lawyers at Project Vaulderie. Atrblizzard has, from what I have seen, made every effort possible to keep his work legal and to reach out to the companies who own the IP. This does give the impression that since Wesp's patches keep the game popular and boost sales, they don't care to point lawyers about in that case.

However I must stress that when you make your own comments and opinions to CCP, you ensure that they are implied as your comments and opinions, and not directly those of Planet Vampire as a whole. The last thing I want is to be seen as encouraging disparaging and possibly untrue remarks to CCP, as we'd be scoring an own goal if they came after Planet Vampire and made me censor topics! Of course we all have in common the opinion that CCP should engage with the community, and that's fine! I host this website and forums for free and don't make money from it, I do it to keep the community alive. Though I do admit I need to get the main site up to scratch and this is being reworked on. I have had to put some of that work on hold with this latest incident as I don't want to be accused of infringing CCP's IP by having any logos with their property in it, for example. It is unclear as one of the old Bloodlines sections in the IGN era featured images from Bloodlines in the logos, and I need to find out where we stand with this for the future. *sighs* thanks for reading.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 11:31:20 PM by samspin »

Offline Psycho-A

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Re: Cease and Desist
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2014, 02:26:56 AM »
It's really sad news for me... Yes, I maybe distanced from VtM's universe last time, but my heart always ached for the Vaulderie dev.team and I never miss'd any news or updates. It seems like CCP honors very different things than the VtM/WoD community support & acceptance, and it's realy disappoint...

For now I actually don't know, what can be suggested relative to further project's fate, but I really hope that the current delelopments won't be wasted. As for focusing on original game's modding and patching, I'd like to tell, that my Bloodlines SDK's source code is fully open, and if it really will be the only way to evolve game in future - maybe someone will join my developments and be able to solve issues I couldn't being alone (alas, but second developer that had really strongful knowledge base about engine work - was gone and don't plan to take any part anymore)...
« Last Edit: November 22, 2014, 02:46:58 AM by Psycho-A »