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Offline fylimar

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Re: The Bioware Spot
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2020, 06:28:11 AM »
In Mass Effect, I liked the scene, where Mordin sings Gilbert and Sullivan, that was hilarious.

Another favorite character of mine is female Revan, light side.
Oh and my female castless dwarf girl in DAO. She was kind of the outsider in surface society, but that was how she liked it.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 06:29:46 AM by fylimar »
“They can keep their heaven. When I die, I’d sooner go to Middle Earth.” ― George R.R. Martin

"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
― Doctor Who

Offline Highwayman667

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Re: The Bioware Spot
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2020, 01:49:08 PM »
In Mass Effect, I liked the scene, where Mordin sings Gilbert and Sullivan, that was hilarious.

Let us celebrate him:



Oh and my female castless dwarf girl in DAO. She was kind of the outsider in surface society, but that was how she liked it.

I do wonder... is it worse to be a city elf or a casteless dwarf in Ferelden ? I might go with the former.

Offline fylimar

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Re: The Bioware Spot
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2020, 07:30:20 PM »
In Mass Effect, I liked the scene, where Mordin sings Gilbert and Sullivan, that was hilarious.

Let us celebrate him:



Oh and my female castless dwarf girl in DAO. She was kind of the outsider in surface society, but that was how she liked it.

I do wonder... is it worse to be a city elf or a casteless dwarf in Ferelden ? I might go with the former.

Yay for Mordins musical qualities.

It's harder to be a city elf for sure - or an elf in general. Nobody outside Orzammar has any problems with your castless dwarf. And in Orzammar I usually side with Bhelen, he might be an asshole, but at least he is open minded. He has no problem whatsoever with a castless (he even wants to marry your sister). Castless dwarf is nice to play to see another side of Bhelen.
“They can keep their heaven. When I die, I’d sooner go to Middle Earth.” ― George R.R. Martin

"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
― Doctor Who

Offline Highwayman667

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Re: The Bioware Spot
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2020, 10:15:29 PM »
It's harder to be a city elf for sure - or an elf in general. Nobody outside Orzammar has any problems with your castless dwarf. And in Orzammar I usually side with Bhelen, he might be an asshole, but at least he is open minded. He has no problem whatsoever with a castless (he even wants to marry your sister). Castless dwarf is nice to play to see another side of Bhelen.

Ah yes ! And here begins our first discussion !

I never pick Bhelen. I think it's a popular choice because players see the slides and make a retroactive decision in subsequent playthroughs to support him. However, I don't think you ever see any evidence of him being progressive at all. Even some of his slide results are rather questionable, I can't find someone to be a fair and just ruler when he decides to abolish the legislative wing of the government (the deshyr assembly).

I mean sure, you can argue your casteless sister knows him deeply but anyone can love someone's character and personality while also dissagreeing with their political beliefs. Personally, I'd rather judge Bhelen by the city guard he murders when you first enter Orzammar.

Offline fylimar

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Re: The Bioware Spot
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2020, 06:28:57 AM »
Oh yes, it is actually mentioned in the end sliders, that Bhelen allows castless dwarfs in society. Many of them join the Dead Legion and help keeping the returning darkspawn at bay. He basically throw away the cast system, which is a good imo. And he reaches out to the surface world and strengthens trade between Orzammar and the surface.
Harrow Mond on the other hand keeps the cast status quo and traditions and has a much darker ending. The darkspawn is threatening Orzammar.

Bhelen isn't a nice guy by far, but he 8s more effective and better for the future of the dwarves.
“They can keep their heaven. When I die, I’d sooner go to Middle Earth.” ― George R.R. Martin

"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
― Doctor Who

Offline Highwayman667

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Re: The Bioware Spot
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2020, 01:57:51 PM »
Oh yes, it is actually mentioned in the end sliders, that Bhelen allows castless dwarfs in society. Many of them join the Dead Legion and help keeping the returning darkspawn at bay. He basically throw away the cast system, which is a good imo. And he reaches out to the surface world and strengthens trade between Orzammar and the surface. Harrow Mond on the other hand keeps the cast status quo and traditions and has a much darker ending. The darkspawn is threatening Orzammar.

Bhelen isn't a nice guy by far, but he 8s more effective and better for the future of the dwarves.

Isn't that weird though ?

Grey Warden: We will support Bhelen.

Morrigan: And why should we do that ? *insert sarcasm*

Grey Warden: Because the end sliders are prettier.

Morrigan: Wat.

To clarify as well: he allows the casteless into the military, not into every area of society. That's another hurdle that someone someday (in a Bhelen rules Orzammar future) might have to struggle with at some point. He also names himself "supreme leader" and does away with the deshyrs.

Nothing substantially bad happens in Harrowmont's ending. In the end the deshyrs decide to do away with him because dwarven society is pushing towards it's own freedom in terms of its' people (the casteless) and its' own desire to expand itself economically.

Offline fylimar

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Re: The Bioware Spot
« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2020, 05:47:45 PM »
It is heavily applied (and I think one of the books get more specific) that Orzammar will loose more ground to the darkspawn, if Harrowmont is king. Bhelen might not give equal rights to the castless, but they get more, than they had before.
As I said, he is not nice and in fact a despot, but I think, he is the lesser evil... and yes, I can see Geralt of Rivia cringe right now, because he is right:evil is evil. But to me Bhelen came across as more open minded even during the wardens time in Orzammar. I think, the dwarves desperately need a bit of open mindedness, especially with the constant darkspawn threat.

The biggest problem with Harrowmont is, that he wants to please the nobility and drives Orzammar into isolation with restrictions and upholding traditions, which will get Orzammar into trouble, so I find his end slider not really assuring. If you are of dwarven origin, you can request, that the king or queen of Ferelden sends an army to Orzammar to help fighting the darkspawn - and if Bhelen is king, they will stand before sealed doors. He effectivly cut Orzammar from the surface.

I found some things, he said to the warden troubeling - he sounded a bit like Dolores Umbridge from Harry Potter - about upholding traditions, Orzammar has to stand on its own and such things. RIght after the fighter from teh legion of the dead did tell you, that they desperately need more people.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 05:54:12 PM by fylimar »
“They can keep their heaven. When I die, I’d sooner go to Middle Earth.” ― George R.R. Martin

"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
― Doctor Who

Offline Highwayman667

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Re: The Bioware Spot
« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2020, 05:55:22 PM »
It is heavily applied (and I think one of the books get more specific) that Orzammar will loose more ground to the darkspawn, if Harrowmont is king. Bhelen might not give equal rights to the castless, but they get more, than they had before. As I said, he is not nice and in fact a despot, but I think, he is the lesser evil... and yes, I can see Geralt of Rivia cringe right now, because he is right:evil is evil. But to me Bhelen came across as more open minded even during the wardens time in Orzammar. I think, the dwarves desperately need a bit of open mindedness, especially with the constant darkspawn threat.

Very reasonable points. I don't know if I might be convinced about him unless I end up playing a run where I support him... which I actually might.

Offline fylimar

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Re: The Bioware Spot
« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2020, 06:19:38 PM »
It is heavily applied (and I think one of the books get more specific) that Orzammar will loose more ground to the darkspawn, if Harrowmont is king. Bhelen might not give equal rights to the castless, but they get more, than they had before. As I said, he is not nice and in fact a despot, but I think, he is the lesser evil... and yes, I can see Geralt of Rivia cringe right now, because he is right:evil is evil. But to me Bhelen came across as more open minded even during the wardens time in Orzammar. I think, the dwarves desperately need a bit of open mindedness, especially with the constant darkspawn threat.

Very reasonable points. I don't know if I might be convinced about him unless I end up playing a run where I support him... which I actually might.

That is, what I like about Dragon Age - there isn't just black and white. Harrowmont is that nice elderly and polite guy and Bhelen the loud impolite troll, but in the end, Orzammar is better off, when teh warden supports Bhelen.

Another question: keep the anvil or destroy it?

I normally destroy it, the thought of how golems are made is horrifying. But I get, why people would keep the anvil. The golems made could help against the darkspawn - still I can't bring myself to side with Branka - I totally despise that character btw. When I first met Hespith, I was horrified by her story. Branka really would do anything to get what she wants.
“They can keep their heaven. When I die, I’d sooner go to Middle Earth.” ― George R.R. Martin

"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
― Doctor Who

Offline Highwayman667

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Re: The Bioware Spot
« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2020, 06:44:38 PM »
That is, what I like about Dragon Age - there isn't just black and white. Harrowmont is that nice elderly and polite guy

Doesn't murder anyone in the middle of the street though xD ...

And there's just no way anyone can have the golems and claim they'd like a better future for the dwarves of Orzammar. No matter who you pick to rule its' the casteless who will absolutely be thrown into the anvil as soon as it's revealed to the king and the deshyrs... unless of course you were one of those wardens with a singular focus on destroying the darkspawn above anything else.

Now how about a real controversial one:

Do you let Loghain live ?

Offline fylimar

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Re: The Bioware Spot
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2020, 07:58:21 PM »
I let him live once and I must say, he has a great Redemption arc in DAI. But normally, I kill him. He has done so much evil. The worst was imo selling the elves to the Tevinter. That is just so horrible. And align himself with someone like Howe. And of course desert the battlefield in Ostagar because he threw a tantrum. Well, it's everything about Loghain really.

What about you?
“They can keep their heaven. When I die, I’d sooner go to Middle Earth.” ― George R.R. Martin

"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
― Doctor Who

Offline Highwayman667

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Re: The Bioware Spot
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2020, 02:37:10 AM »
I let him live once and I must say, he has a great Redemption arc in DAI. But normally, I kill him. He has done so much evil. The worst was imo selling the elves to the Tevinter. That is just so horrible. And align himself with someone like Howe. And of course desert the battlefield in Ostagar because he threw a tantrum. Well, it's everything about Loghain really.

What about you?

Killed him the first time but I found his character so interesting when I let him live in the next playthrough that I... sort of couldn't after that. It's kind of fucked up as well since my main DAO character is a city elf. The thing I like the most however, about letting Loghain live though, has nothing to do with him...

...but with Alistair.

It enhances the story to me with such a tragic outcome, because I really consider Alistair to be my character's best friend. However, it's understandable that Alistair could never forgive someone who let go of the person that committed such terrible crimes against the Grey Wardens, the soldiers of Ferelden and even the King.

Conscripting must've sucked royal ass in the middle ages !

Offline fylimar

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Re: The Bioware Spot
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2020, 06:05:33 AM »
When I let Loghain live, Alistair turned up as a drunk in the Hanged Man in DA2. It was heartbreaking and I don't even like his character that much.

What about Connor? Does he live in your games? Does Isolde live?
“They can keep their heaven. When I die, I’d sooner go to Middle Earth.” ― George R.R. Martin

"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
― Doctor Who

Offline Highwayman667

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Re: The Bioware Spot
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2020, 06:07:35 PM »
When I let Loghain live, Alistair turned up as a drunk in the Hanged Man in DA2. It was heartbreaking and I don't even like his character that much.

Oh I love this, your playthrough is quite unpopular in "many DA circles". Who's Queen of Ferelden in your canon ? Your warden or Anora ?

What about Connor? Does he live in your games? Does Isolde live?

Indeed they both do. Though as far as I know, Isolde doesn't appear in DA:I... at least I never saw her in my playthroughs.

Offline fylimar

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Re: The Bioware Spot
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2020, 09:09:11 PM »
Anora is queen. I don't romance Alistair, since I don't like him that much.

I think, Isolde appears somewhere, but not in DAI, it's the party in the dlc of DA2, Mark of the Assassin.

I normally let both live too, it might be a bit optimistic to think, you can travel all the way to Lake Calenhad and summon the mages, without the demon in Connor getting naughty again, but obviously, that is exactly, what happens :)
It's nice to save the kid though, so to hell with realism (plus he gets to keep his mother).

“They can keep their heaven. When I die, I’d sooner go to Middle Earth.” ― George R.R. Martin

"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
― Doctor Who

 

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