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Author Topic: Why did Vampire: The Requiem reboot the mythology?  (Read 13613 times)

Offline AtomicCaliber

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Why did Vampire: The Requiem reboot the mythology?
« on: July 05, 2011, 08:54:04 PM »
I recently discovered the PC game Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines, and have been immersed in the complex and fascinating mythology of the game. I was disappointed to find out that not only was Bloodlines Troika’s swan song but it seems to be a part of the final goodbye to the entire franchise as well. My question is why, with so much world building already done, was Vampire: The Requiem created? I can understand changing, updating, and redoing mechanics. But a complete reboot of the entire mythology when the original mythology was so awesome, it makes no sense.

I have been doing some research on the subject and this is not meant to be a nWod vs oWod thread. I don’t mean to say that the nWod is bad or anything. My question is why did White Wolf choose to end the old mythology?

Offline Don Strudel

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Re: Why did Vampire: The Requiem reboot the mythology?
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2011, 09:00:30 PM »
Interest in the old games had waned and they were no longer profitable.

EDIT: The old games also suffered from a heavy dose of Continuity Lock Out, which contributed to their overall decline.

Furthermore, White Wolf Game Studio (WWGS) wanted to create a reboot that distilled all the good aspects but provided a fresh new look, more freedom, and opened the door for creativity.

EDIT: Try asking on the official White Wolf forums.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2011, 09:10:07 PM by Don Strudel »
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Offline Radical21

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Re: Why did Vampire: The Requiem reboot the mythology?
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2011, 09:12:29 PM »
The Simple answer is that there was nothing more to add content wise.

Offline Aydoo

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Re: Why did Vampire: The Requiem reboot the mythology?
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2011, 09:22:02 PM »
Most OWoD fans ask this same question everytime they see NWoD content.


Honestly the gaming platform was in a steady decline and they were hurting. They needed to inject new blood (yeah I went there) into the IP and reach out to a broader audience. The themes, streamlining, and restarting of the mythology allowed new players to just jump right in. The game takes more from media like Underworld and Twilight than it does the 80s/90s vibe that the OWoD Modern Day content was based on.

Unfortunately, they pretty much alienated their pre-installed user base and it turned out to not be as popular.

Its just that in recent years, especially with the advent of MMOs, table top gaming is in a huge and steady decline to obscurity.

Offline Don Strudel

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Re: Why did Vampire: The Requiem reboot the mythology?
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2011, 09:26:20 PM »
Unfortunately, they pretty much alienated their pre-installed user base and it turned out to not be as popular.
You need to provide some statistics on this, because as far the developers have said, the new game proved quite profitable.
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Offline Aydoo

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Re: Why did Vampire: The Requiem reboot the mythology?
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2011, 09:34:55 PM »
Profitable and popular are two different things. If it costs you 300$ to publish the book, and you sell 500 copies of first release at 50$ each. PROFIT. Very profitable, even if its not popular and people end up not liking it.

Offline Radical21

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Re: Why did Vampire: The Requiem reboot the mythology?
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2011, 09:37:00 PM »
Profitable and popular are two different things. If it costs you 300$ to publish the book, and you sell 500 copies of first release at 50$ each. PROFIT. Very profitable, even if its not popular and people end up not liking it.

But that has more to do with the coming of the PDF age than the content

Offline Palp

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Re: Why did Vampire: The Requiem reboot the mythology?
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2011, 02:17:15 AM »
They did not reboot the mythology, they made a new game. This is like asking why did Aberrant not use the mythology of VTM or indeed why dont every work of fiction ever use the same mythology, it doesnt make sense. Throughout the years WW have had loads of separate mythologies (IPs) and ended them before as well as created new ones, WW is much more then just OWOD.

Now why you would want to stop developing a setting (with its mythology) is a different question, and there is loads of reasons one may want too, in the case of OWODs one is that it had gotten bloated and weighed down so much writers where so restricted, and of course it was all about the end of the world, so you need to bring that and then it ends.

Now if you want to stude the OWOD mythology and universe (keep however in mind that its not really one, theres several ones loosely tied together in ways that dont really work) Theres hundreds of books for you, whatm ore do you want?
« Last Edit: July 06, 2011, 02:59:38 AM by Palp »

Offline Don Strudel

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Re: Why did Vampire: The Requiem reboot the mythology?
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2011, 02:46:43 AM »
Correct. Requiem is not a reboot. It is an entirely new game that uses similar themes.
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Offline AtomicCaliber

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Re: Why did Vampire: The Requiem reboot the mythology?
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2011, 03:55:55 AM »
Thanks for the replies,

I can understand the need to start with a clean slate and appeal to a larger market. Not everyone likes dense mythologies.
Also, I understand that NWoD is an entirely new game with new mechanics. However in terms of world building it does share some of the same terminology and concepts with the original, which is why I referred to it as a reboot.

And to reiterate, I meant no offense towards NWoD fans with my post. I was just curious why White Wolf chose to end something that they obviously put a lot of time and energy into creating. While I prefer the mythology of OWoD, I do like some of the mechanics present in NWoD.

Offline PGM1961

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Re: Why did Vampire: The Requiem reboot the mythology?
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2011, 04:45:51 AM »
While I prefer the mythology and background of OWoD better, every game I ever played in ignored most of the BS introduced by the glut of game supplements.  It was treated like, "Oh yeah, the Malkavians believe this, and the Ventrue believe that, and they're probably both full of crap, because it happened so long ago that nobody really knows."  That way the Storyteller could decide what the truth was in his/her game, and players who bought everything White Wolf published didn't have a lock on 'The Real Truth'.  This is why everybody I gamed with ignored the Gehenna metaplot, because it just didn't fit their game world.

Of course, you will always have gamers who insist on including everything ever published about the game as canon, and casual (or new) gamers just aren't going to bother learning all of that.  So whether you call it a reboot or a new game, something had to be done.  I agree with this fact, I just disagree on the end result.  In trying to avoid the 'Continuity Lock Out' which Don Strudel spoke of (and helpfully provided a link to for those unfamiliar with the term), White Wolf made Requiem too bland and directionless for my tastes.  But tastes differ, and a lot of people like it.  So I won't get involved in arguing which is better.  It's like arguing Chocolate vs. Vanilla -- it's purely a matter of personal taste, and you're not going to change anyone's mind, so it's useless trying.
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Offline Rick Gentle

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Re: Why did Vampire: The Requiem reboot the mythology?
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2011, 09:33:28 PM »
Don't worry about upsetting the NWoD people; they'll take offense no matter what you say.

Two reasons why the mythology didn't carry over, off the top of my head:
The first and biggest reason is that in 2004, according to the OWoD timeline, the world ended. It would've taken a LOT of retconning, plot devices, and pulling stuff out of their collective ass for the developers to suddenly turn around and make the World of Darkness unlivable again.

Second reason is that since they did away with generations, there was no more continuity with the past; when any vampire can attain the heights of level 10 Blood Potency, there are no more Methuselahs or Antediluvians hanging over their heads, and certainly no Caine. Without Caine and his childer, there was no foundation for vampires as a species, so they copped out and said "Nobody knows anymore". They do that a lot in Requiem.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 10:40:24 AM by Rick Gentle »
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Offline _username

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Re: Why did Vampire: The Requiem reboot the mythology?
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2011, 04:26:56 AM »
That's something of an over-simplification.  NWoD was in development concurrently with Gehenna/Apocalypse/Time of Judgment.  The way you described it makes it sound like they ended the world, then later decided that they wanted to give it a reboot.  The concept that "nobody knows anymore" is an apt description of the out-of-character vibe.  In-character, the Dragons are just as devout in their belief of vampiric origins as the Setites were in their beliefs.  The difference is that the game mechanics allow for that kind of possibility, rather than outright implying that it's wrong (as is the case with the Setites).
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Offline Palp

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Re: Why did Vampire: The Requiem reboot the mythology?
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2011, 12:42:24 PM »
Indeed, they have in no way copped out. They have provided several theories on vampire origins, what htey havent done is define one as true. I dont see a problem with that.

Offline Rick Gentle

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Re: Why did Vampire: The Requiem reboot the mythology?
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2011, 08:31:38 PM »
Also given the recent re-labeling of Old World of Darkness as "Classic" World of Darkness, I am forced to wonder just how true Don Strudel's idea was that it's basically a marketing ploy. New brand name to revitalize sales. They're doing the same thing with the new V20 rule system.
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