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Offline Nigama

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Changeling: the Lost - What I dislike/Adapting to CWoD
« on: November 05, 2011, 05:02:02 PM »
So I've been reading and rereading Changeling for awhile now and as much as I still think it's an amazing game that makes me want to create (nearly) an endless stream of characters there are a few things that leap out at me as WRONG. 

Problem 1 - Judeo-Christian instead of Pagan: The language used, and mechanics used, for regaining Willpower involve a Vice and Virtue, essentially the seven deadly sins and seven holy virtues of the Roman Catholic Church.  They specifically use the word "sin" throughout and at one point delve into the question of whether beings have "souls" in a very Judeo-Christian way.  Except the Fae have not traditionally been a thing of the Judeo-Christian world, they were outside of it; heretical at best, demonic at worst.  I really miss the pagan Sidhe and Seelie/Unseelie Courts, which are based in real pagan/fae mythology.  Why toss that for Judeo-Christian notions? 

I do not have the C:tD book here, does anyone recall the system used to regain WP in C:tD?  If memory serves at all it probably had to do with eliciting some emotion from a human.  What would strengthen the will of a creature in C:tL?  I kindof like the idea of beauty or appetites that can grow too far out proportion (something becomes so beautiful it's monstrous), but I also think it can be done without the Judeo-Christian language of sin and vice (or souls).

Problem 2 - The Fae are gods unto themselves and whatever forces they've made contracts with - Eeeehh...  I really like the mythological notions of the Sidhe and Seelie/Unseelie.  Even tho C:tL rarely deals with True Fae except as enemies, and so would probably never learn this information, I think it's important that the True Fae also hold courts, with various groups over others... essentially the Changelings mimic the True Fae without really being aware of it.  And then that can lead to other fun questions..  like..  maybe the Fianna see Changelings as just less powerful Fae, maybe the Fae mimic the Changelings, maybe creating Changelings is a way of creating new Fae?  I see a lot more potential for fun and interesting stories with this dynamic.  Otherwise Fae are really just odd, yet very powerful Mages in pocket realms. :)

Problem 3 - Clarity rolls every time a new destination is chosen in the Hedge - Huh?  So I can control the Hedge with my Wyrd, the Hedge reflects my Wyrd, I can use my Wyrd to manipulate the Hedge to do combat on my behalf, and I can find gateways out of the Hedge using my Wyrd, but every time I decide to go a different place I could get lost because I have low Clarity?  That just seems really off and a waste of time for the campaign if a character with a low Clarity insists on spending time in the Hedge.  It seems far more appropriate for the ST to simply decide that a random Hedge encounter needs to occur for story related reasons, or to teach the character to be more wary of the Hedge, but why reduce it to a roll EVERY time?  It just seems foolish and could possibly turn into a disaster with a character purposefully doing it.  It should also be noted that a character with a low Clarity score can get lost even in their own "backyard," even if they are insanely good at navigating and surviving the Hedge.  Makes very little sense to me.  In addition, I tend not to like a dice roll to follow another dice roll by the same character.. and in this case, if I'm walking down a trod towards my freehold and I decide to search for a gate out where I am, that requires two rolls.. a Clarity roll so I don't get lost and a roll to see if I can find it.  Time wasted in my book, let's get back to *ROLEPLAYING*. 

Problem 4 - Essentially a vampire or werewolf with high enough and the right stats can walk around in the Hedge without any penalty because they get a roll to completely avoid the damaging effects.  Changelings don't get a roll.  Um..  why?  Why can't a changeling with a high Wyrd also resist these effects?  They should be able to.  It'd be foolish for a vampire or werewolf to be more at home in the Hedge than a Changeling! 

I think most of the Contracts will transfer over pretty easily once I can line up corresponding stats.  Pretty much using all CWoD rules, but will be using the new Athletics as dodge rule, and home rule of 8 dice pool or greater every *two* 1's are a botch. 

I also don't recall what their ability to take dmg was like in C:tD.  In C:tL they seem pretty much as weak as normal humans, all the time.  Cold Iron was also a bit more powerful in C:tD which I think I like, but then again I don't want it to be too similar to werewolves and silver (or Kumo and Hong-mu Rosewood..  *giggles uncontrollably*).

Guess what I need to do now are go sync up the stats and check on a few things.
Be back later with more specifics.


Nigama
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« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 05:53:01 PM by Nigama »


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Offline Rick Gentle

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Re: Changeling: the Lost - What I dislike/Adapting to CWoD
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2011, 07:15:43 PM »
So I've been reading and rereading Changeling for awhile now and as much as I still think it's an amazing game that makes me want to create (nearly) an endless stream of characters there are a few things that leap out at me as WRONG. 

Problem 1 - Judeo-Christian instead of Pagan: The language used, and mechanics used, for regaining Willpower involve a Vice and Virtue, essentially the seven deadly sins and seven holy virtues of the Roman Catholic Church.
See? See? I'm not the only one who thinks so!
Nature and Demeanor were better for precisely the reason that they were more adaptable with such things as Paths of Enlightenment, or whatever the Changeling equivalent is. Part of the problem is the "standard template" they try to push on us in the New World of Darkness, the one found in the corebook. Each of the other species/character templates has to more-or-less match it, which means everything is applied to each species regardless of whether it fits or not.

Knowing nothing about Changeling: The Lost, the answer to #3 would be, I guess, that even the most experienced and adaptable Changelings aren't as in tune with the changes of the Hedge as one of these "True Fae" - they're just enough mortal so that they are subject to the mortal rules, and the Hedge responds to this. Even a Changeling's "own backyard" is dangerous and mystifying. The very point is in the risk and the potential for change. Methinks.

I think we can already guess Radical21's and Aydoo's responses to this thread...
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Offline Nigama

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Re: Changeling: the Lost - What I dislike/Adapting to CWoD
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2011, 08:28:26 PM »
So I've been reading and rereading Changeling for awhile now and as much as I still think it's an amazing game that makes me want to create (nearly) an endless stream of characters there are a few things that leap out at me as WRONG. 

Problem 1 - Judeo-Christian instead of Pagan: The language used, and mechanics used, for regaining Willpower involve a Vice and Virtue, essentially the seven deadly sins and seven holy virtues of the Roman Catholic Church.
See? See? I'm not the only one who thinks so!
Nature and Demeanor were better for precisely the reason that they were more adaptable with such things as Paths of Enlightenment, or whatever the Changeling equivalent is. Part of the problem is the "standard template" they try to push on us in the New World of Darkness, the one found in the corebook. Each of the other species/character templates has to more-or-less match it, which means everything is applied to each species regardless of whether it fits or not.

Ah.  Enlightening.  I have not spent as much time with the Core WoD book, as perhaps I should.  Yes, I see now that the emotional aspect of C:tD was glamour gathering based, while WP was still controlled by the old Nature/Demeanor pair.  While I think something new could be thought up based on the True Fae themselves and their pleasure/pain combo, Nature and Demeanor is an easy and efficient fallback. 

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Knowing nothing about Changeling: The Lost, the answer to #3 would be, I guess, that even the most experienced and adaptable Changelings aren't as in tune with the changes of the Hedge as one of these "True Fae" - they're just enough mortal so that they are subject to the mortal rules, and the Hedge responds to this. Even a Changeling's "own backyard" is dangerous and mystifying. The very point is in the risk and the potential for change. Methinks.

And yet..  a character with NO survival skill, LOW Wyrd, NO ability to make the Hedge fight on his behalf, and LOW ability to detect gateways..  this character NEVER gets lost because they have a high Clarity?  Does that really seem right to you?  If so, please pass what you're smoking..

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I think we can already guess Radical21's and Aydoo's responses to this thread...

I tend to forge my own path through the Hedge, so to speak, so I really don't expect anything from them.  If they'd like to comment, great!

Nigama
« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 08:41:44 PM by Nigama »
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Offline Kintarokaiji

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Re: Changeling: the Lost - What I dislike/Adapting to CWoD
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2015, 08:42:28 AM »
I think it's a very good knowledge and very helpful.

 

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