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Author Topic: Best and Worst  (Read 18323 times)

Offline [archive] Radical21

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Re: Best and Worst
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2008, 02:23:00 PM »
                Offkorn I think you take what I said as just a thought about a "coincidance" and turning it to something horriably serious.
 All I thought was in a light and moking manner is :'Interesting coincidance, looks like some cheap attempt at swaying WoD MMO's target audience..not that theres anything wrong with it'.
 And yes I did figure out for my own that these games have different concepts, however on a overall level they both appeal to the same genere.
 
 Thats a interesting point about MMO development, and while Im not really claiming they knew about WoDMMO, whos to say they started to build one from scratch and their design is significantly more simple than WoD MMO so I give it 2 years or less.                        

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] Offkorn

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Re: Best and Worst
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2008, 04:15:00 PM »
               
Radical21 posted:
'Interesting coincidance, looks like some cheap attempt at swaying WoD MMO's target audience..not that theres anything wrong with it'.
 

 
 And what I'm trying to get across to you is that nothing of the sort has even the slightest chance of having had happened.
 
 The WoD MMO was announced barely a year ago, and no one would gain anything by attempting to cash in off a franchise that has been nothing but failure after failure. Redemption and Bloodlines were not successes. The WoD's target audience is pathetically small for anyone to waste their time courting.
 
 It's a retarded theory with nothing to support it. 'Requiem' is neither a rare word, nor is it a word specifically associated with White Wolf. Guess what? There were two movies named Requiem (one of which was released in 1995).
 
 Oh noes! It looks like White Wolf capitalized off the success of those movies by stealing their title! Oh, wait...No, no they didn't; they're just using a common word that happens to fit with their game's themes, just like GRAVITY is doing with Bloodymare.                        

 

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Offline [archive] Radical21

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Re: Best and Worst
« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2008, 06:31:00 PM »
                Wow I really missed these pointless conversations Offkorn.
 Anyway What I tried to convey and failed is that what said is hardly a Theory, just some random thought.
 
 On the other note: Looking at White-Wolf Forums/chats and the number of people that used to play Redemption multiplayer Id say WoD games do have a respectable player base even if initially the previous PC titles were lacking. Otherwise CCP would never take that contract . Yeah Bloodlines was a total failiure but I wouldnt say that about the other games
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
                       

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] Skyra_to_Hollow

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Re: Best and Worst
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2008, 02:02:00 AM »
                A couple summers ago, Nihilistic re-launched their public website, which had been down for over a year.  Following the re-launch, one of their first news articles thanked the community and claimed that Redemption had just broken the 500,000 mark.  Sure, it took 6 years, but half a million units isn't too shabby.                        

 

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Offline [archive] Dark666Prophet

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Re: Best and Worst
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2008, 05:07:00 AM »
                Considering it's a "cult" game of sorts, yeah, that is impressive. Upon beating it, I like it quite a bit. However, until I finished it, I really hated it. There's a lot wrong with the game, but with such a small selection of VtM games (two), beggars can't be choosers, and it definitely has its good qualities.                        

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] BjornWestlander

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Re: Best and Worst
« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2008, 06:40:00 AM »
                So, if I may get this topic back on track:
 
 Best: vampires are more low-key. Also, the world is more X-Files/Lovecraft-like.
 Worst: Bloodline books. Browsing them, I felt like holding Chaos Factor in my hands again. Blech.                        

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] Dark666Prophet

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Re: Best and Worst
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2008, 07:35:00 AM »
                Oh, my question a few posts above was never answered, and I'm really curious about it again. Where do vampires come from in Requiem? If there's no Caine source, then...where? Vampire storks?                        

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] Palp79

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Re: Best and Worst
« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2008, 07:57:00 AM »
                There is no official answer. And none will be given. There is however various myths and theories among the vampires themselves. Some where explores in the Mythologies book.
 
 The Blood of the Bull, roots vampirism in Mithraic cults.
 Sons of the Serpent, vampires as heirs of the biblical serpent
 Embraced by fear, vampires are descendants of corpses risen out of the power of their own fear.
 Blood Gods, vampires are the earthly remains of long forgotten demigods
 Emperors of blood, each clan was built of sin from important Roman persons, such as Ceasar and Cleopatra.
 Some also believes Longinus was the first vampire, cursed with vampirism by god when he speared Jesus. A popular view in the Lancea Sanctum.
 
 Now cannon wise neither of these are given any more truth then another, and canon wise many are wrong. There was for example certainly vampires around before Longinus. This all goes with the toolbox approach of NWOD, where do vampires come from? It is not the books place to answer that, it is your STs place to answer it. And I would say that it is more important where vampires believe they come from then what it would actually be, just like with real religion.
 
 Now VtMasquerade too have many different origin myths for vampires. The problem was that the Caine myth was made into canon with the Generation mechanic of the game.                        

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] Nalkor

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Re: Best and Worst
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2008, 09:46:00 PM »
                My little problem with the nWoD, despite only having Redemption, Bloodlines, and wiki sites as my oWoD material, is that the vampire origins aren't explained by the creators of the game itself. The whole, "It's a mystery to everyone!" thing is just stupid, it's a crappy way of saying "We're out of ideas that are credible in the least, take some theories and just make something up and buy it already."                        

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] Palp79

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Re: Best and Worst
« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2008, 08:27:00 AM »
                I disagree there. They have written several origin stories that are well done and written. What they have not done is taken one story and defined it as canon, thankfully. Caine being the origin of vampires had vast ramification for not only VTM, but the other game lines as well. It established Jehova, the Abrahamic god as the creator of Earth and humanity (as well as Lucifer and heaven and hell and the whole thingy). Many did not like it but rather wanted to make their own cosmologies or simply don't care about such things at all, Caine made that difficult. The tool box approach of the NWOD does not mean the writers are lazy and write less or worse material, it means that they are very careful in how much that material interconnects so that if you use some of it that doesn't necessarily means you have to use any other parts.                        

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] Nalkor

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Re: Best and Worst
« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2008, 06:37:00 PM »
               
Palp79 posted:
I disagree there. They have written several origin stories that are well done and written. What they have not done is taken one story and defined it as canon, thankfully. Caine being the origin of vampires had vast ramification for not only VTM, but the other game lines as well. It established Jehova, the Abrahamic god as the creator of Earth and humanity (as well as Lucifer and heaven and hell and the whole thingy). Many did not like it but rather wanted to make their own cosmologies or simply don't care about such things at all, Caine made that difficult. The tool box approach of the NWOD does not mean the writers are lazy and write less or worse material, it means that they are very careful in how much that material interconnects so that if you use some of it that doesn't necessarily means you have to use any other parts.
That's kinda the point, Caine made things difficult, but it was the canon origin. Here, there's no defined canon background, but as soon as one is chosen, I'm sure there'll be people who get up in arms about it, like if the one for the guy who speared Jesus is used as canon, it'd basically have the same problems as Caine.
 
 When the background isn't defined as canon and other alternatives are laid out and no instant canon story, it's going to cause teeth gnashing when one origin story is chosen over another. It's problematic to use Caine due to religious implications, but it's less problematic than leaving it open to interpretation and then choosing a single origin story as canon.                        

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] Palp79

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Re: Best and Worst
« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2008, 07:41:00 PM »
                Why would they need to pick one at all? I sincerely doubt that they will. And I don't get why there being many myths as to what created the first vampire is problematic? Especially as it was the same way in OWOD. There where other myths then Caine. The problem was that the Caine myth became so entrenched in the game that it was very hard to ignore for those who wanted. In Requiem you can easily have Caine as the father of vampires (and actually he is mentioned in Requiem for Rome) or you can have drunk space monkeys make the first vampire. But whatever you choose it will not have a massive effect on the entire game line. And background does not have to be about who the first vampire was. There are plenty of background to tie your character into if you want that without it. Is it a big problem that its not known who the first Promethean was as well? (as far sa I know grin ). Or the first Mage...Or the first human..                        

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] Skyra_to_Hollow

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Re: Best and Worst
« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2008, 01:54:00 AM »
                As for Promethian, it's more or less accepted that all of the origin stories are pretty much true.  From what I can tell, each Lineage really did have its own independent origin.  Unless I'm forgetting something here, none of the origin myths rely on the authenticity or fallability of any of the other origin myths.  I think they (White Wolf) did a good job of giving each Storyteller the option of picking whichever origin he or she wants.  In the old system, alternate creation myths weren't really feasible, since the Caine thing was firmly embedded into the game mechanics (e.g., the Generation concept).                        

 

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Offline [archive] Palp79

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Best and Worst
« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2008, 08:11:00 AM »
                Yes, and we actually have several origins very possible with VTR as well. Longinus for example is not believed to have been the first vampire, there was certainly vampires around before him. What is believed is that he became a vampire without having been embraced by another and therefor are special. The same thing is believed about Vlad Tepes, Dracula. And who knows how many times this may have happened, or why it happens, or when it happened the first time..All up to the ST and players to decide.                        

 

                                                  

Offline Link6746

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Re: Best and Worst
« Reply #44 on: July 24, 2010, 05:49:09 AM »
And while Mage portrays the Atlantean system of magic as the true one, and the cosmology as the true one in the setting, is it really? or is it just a general consensus among mages that causes it to become the truth? is it another system of magic that is at work, and it's really just innate power that's coursing through them, causing them to use power they really don't understand at all? Are they really channeling the power of a god? a dead god? a lovecraftian entity? is the universe itself their bitch, and backlashing at them when it is in too much pain from their actions?

Again, no knowing. you only get one view, and the game doesn't tell you enough for you to know. the so called "atlantean ruins" shown don't even give you enough of an understanding (from my limited perspective).

Hell, you don't even know if the statements regarding ghosts, or spirits are right, do you?

Oh, and also.... Tremere Liches are playable in nWoD. They are a legacy for mages.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 10:51:22 PM by Link6746 »