collapse

Author Topic: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)  (Read 11323 times)

Offline Nigama

  • Dead
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 1883
Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2015, 02:54:47 AM »
The Origin Project (this thread) is really about your idea for the lineage, its founder and how it began. 

The question you're asking, seems to be focused less on that and more on the modern nights in the Planet Vampire RPG I'm cobbling together.  In that world, cities aren't ruled so much by organizations (the Cam, the Sabbat, the Anarchs), but instead are controlled more by individuals.  In that sense, it really depends upon which city/area you live in and what the Lord is like and how he or she runs their Domain.  The Lord or Lords are essentially the strongest single vampire or strongest coalition of several vampires.  At the same time, as a vampire, you could certainly move to an area of the country where there are very few vampires, declare yourself "Lord" of the middle of nowhere and start cultivating open rule over the locals (they know you're a vampire and you just keep them in line through love or fear).

There are of course Lords that will side with the political group (names still TBD) that wants to openly rule over humanity.  Some of those vampires imagine a world where vampire and human live side by side as equals.  Others have a vision of ruling over humanity as masters.  Still others seek to enslave humankind like cattle, pigs or chickens.

There's definitely a pretty big variance in both groups.

But to return to your question... how strong is the enforcement of the rule not to reveal yourself to humankind?  Most cities have Lords or Ladies that work very hard to limit human knowledge of vampires.  They have influence in all areas of society and use this influence to squash any evidence of vampirism.

Even those that wish to buck the system, so far in the setting have done so relatively quietly for fear of backlash from the vampires in cities/areas close by.  That however is changing with a specific NPC's provocative actions setting some plot elements in motion.

Hope that's enough to get you started!   :cometome:

Nigama
"You may not remember us, but we may be responsible for your lack of memory."

Offline Valeera

  • Blackjack
  • Neonate
  • **
  • Posts: 81
  • Victory, not vengeance.
Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2015, 11:00:16 PM »
Nigama, that sounds like a really mouldable concept, I rather like it that way. Basically, one can invent whatever they like and then just move it to a territory where it's viable.

I did a little research yesterday and today, and ran into some interesting things in various mythologies (of course, many mythologies have similarities between them, and I'm certain that what I've found can be found in almost any pantheon, under a different name, so feel free to suggest another culture if you feel it would fit better)

I will just post one idea for now, and see if you guys find it any good.
It's still work in progress, these are just outlines, if you will:

1. Clan Lelwani
Lelwani is the goddess in Hittite mythology, dating back to presumably 1600-1180BC, in Hittite empire (modern day Turkey, Syria, Lebanon)
Lelwani was the goddess of death and the underworld.
My origin story for this clan goes like this:  Lelwani had a mortal lover, a great warrior by the name of Batur (means warrior in Turkish) There came a day when Batur perished in battle and went to the underworld, to be with his Lelwani forever. However, Batur was miserable without his calling and having not accomplished his biggest goal (helping his empire conquer Babylonia) begged Lelwani to bring him back to the realm of the living. Being unable to say no to the man she loved, Lelwani agreed. Being the goddess of death, however, Lelwani didn't possess the knowledge of life and rebirth, so she decided to steal the secrets of Arinniti and Istanu (gods of sun) and Kaskuh (god of moon). The secret of the moon was the first one she obtained, and being the goddess of the underworld and eternal darkness, she was able to comprehend it. But when she stole the secret of the sun, Istanu, upon realizing his secret is no longer safe (being also the god of judgement) cursed anyone who would use it to die of the sacred secret he/she stole.
Batur was resurrected but doomed to never ever walk the daylight again.
God of war, Wurrukatte, though, was apalled by the abomination that was once the warrior in his graces and forsake him, leading Batur to lose any honour, loyalty and cause he had as a warrior and leaving nothing but a bloodthirsty barbarian.
Vampires of clan Lelwani are vicious and savage, extremely proficient in battle, and only admitting the law of the fittest. They do not Embrace by drinking and then giving blood, but the new Lelwani are made if the promising human manages to wound/kill a Lelwani in battle with the vampire's own weapon.
In the modern nights, the Lelwani have learned how to control their savage nature in social situations, but only even get in social situations when they absolutely must.
Strenghts: physical prowess (greater physical stats than any other clan), proficiency with blades
Weaknesses: instantly killed by sunlight, bright artificial light does more damage than to any other clan, depictions of the sun slightly disturb a Lelwani, frenzy checks higher.
Organisation: Lelwani resemble a pack of beasts or a group of pirahnas in the sense that there is the leader who asserts his superiority by branding members of his pack (like the alpha pirahna bites the lips of other pirahnas)
They can be found inticing riot and chaos, being mercenaries, hitmen, paid soldiers etc. The other clans see them as coarse savages, but still fear they would have to battle them.
Disciplines: Fortitude, Potence, Presence



Know your own limit in the use of power. Releasing all out is 90% of the way to defeat.

Offline Nigama

  • Dead
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 1883
Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2015, 01:46:14 PM »

1. Clan Lelwani

No need for Clans here... well, unless your lineage is Scottish, I guess.

Quote
Lelwani is the goddess in Hittite mythology, dating back to presumably 1600-1180BC, in Hittite empire (modern day Turkey, Syria, Lebanon)
Lelwani was the goddess of death and the underworld.
My origin story for this clan goes like this:  Lelwani had a mortal lover, a great warrior by the name of Batur (means warrior in Turkish) There came a day when Batur perished in battle and went to the underworld, to be with his Lelwani forever. However, Batur was miserable without his calling and having not accomplished his biggest goal (helping his empire conquer Babylonia) begged Lelwani to bring him back to the realm of the living. Being unable to say no to the man she loved, Lelwani agreed. Being the goddess of death, however, Lelwani didn't possess the knowledge of life and rebirth, so she decided to steal the secrets of Arinniti and Istanu (gods of sun) and Kaskuh (god of moon). The secret of the moon was the first one she obtained, and being the goddess of the underworld and eternal darkness, she was able to comprehend it. But when she stole the secret of the sun, Istanu, upon realizing his secret is no longer safe (being also the god of judgement) cursed anyone who would use it to die of the sacred secret he/she stole.
Batur was resurrected but doomed to never ever walk the daylight again.
God of war, Wurrukatte, though, was apalled by the abomination that was once the warrior in his graces and forsake him, leading Batur to lose any honour, loyalty and cause he had as a warrior and leaving nothing but a bloodthirsty barbarian.

Love it!

Quote
Vampires of clan Lelwani are vicious and savage, extremely proficient in battle, and only admitting the law of the fittest. They do not Embrace by drinking and then giving blood, but the new Lelwani are made if the promising human manages to wound/kill a Lelwani in battle with the vampire's own weapon.

That... must be very rare, no?  Maybe I'm reading it wrong.  A *human* has to wound/kill a *vampire* with the vampire's own weapon?  This lineage would be rare, methinks.

Quote
In the modern nights, the Lelwani have learned how to control their savage nature in social situations, but only even get in social situations when they absolutely must.

I like tying this specifically to a mechanic.  In the weaknesses below you mention Frenzy. Maybe also throw in a penalty to social interactions because of the powerful urge to solve problems by hitting or cutting them.

Quote
Strenghts: physical prowess (greater physical stats than any other clan lineage), proficiency with blades

As warriors, philosophically speaking, what do they see as the most important aspect of combat?  Speed, Strength or Toughness?  Do they try to seek a balance of all three? (Unable to raise a physical stat/power more than one higher than the others?)

Quote
Weaknesses: instantly killed by sunlight, bright artificial light does more damage than to any other clan, depictions of the sun slightly disturb a Lelwani, frenzy checks higher.

Hm... Insta killed by sunlight... so what happens if a beam of sunlight falls across their fore arm?  They just lose that arm on down to the hand?  It might be more effective to have them take more damage from sunlight, but realistically this flaw doesn't come up *that* much in games.  They are already vampires and the sun will destroy them so that explains the curse, it doesn't *have* to be extra strong for them.  I'd stick with social penalties and higher Control checks.

Quote
Organisation: Lelwani resemble a pack of beasts or a group of pirahnas in the sense that there is the leader who asserts his superiority by branding members of his pack (like the alpha pirahna bites the lips of other pirahnas)
They can be found inticing riot and chaos, being mercenaries, hitmen, paid soldiers etc. The other clans see them as coarse savages, but still fear they would have to battle them.

Cool.

What if a Lelwani was a bit odd or crazy and decided for shits n giggles to turn a really nerdy IT server manager into a Lelwani (somehow the girl got lucky, tripped and wounded the Lelwani in their fight with her own weapon).  How would game mechanics force her to prioritize physical stats and powers beyond higher Control (Frenzy) checks and penalties to social rolls?  How would the character be forced into the lineage stereotypes you describe above?  In what ways could she break those stereotypes?  What kind of backlash might she suffer at the hands of the rest of the lineage?

Quote
Disciplines: Fortitude, Potence, Presence

Why Presence instead of Celerity?


Nigama
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 01:48:36 PM by Nigama »
"You may not remember us, but we may be responsible for your lack of memory."

Offline Valeera

  • Blackjack
  • Neonate
  • **
  • Posts: 81
  • Victory, not vengeance.
Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2015, 03:14:56 PM »
I did intend them to be rare, because they are really savage and powerful, especially in a pack, so if they were more common, they would cause TOO much chaos in the entire world, impose tyranny and kill humans like ducks.
But I guess I could divise a way for them to still be rare, without the slightly weird way of embracing. Maybe they organise tournaments amongst themselves and the weakest one in every tournament is killed? Or maybe when an aspiring Lelwani wants to overthrow the leader of his pack, he must do so by killing him?

Ah yes, the penalty to social interaction, like, they can't (or can, but only on weaker targets or with great difficulty) use Seduction or Persuasion, but have a bonus to Intimidation?

Or maybe, make a new Lelwani player select a physical stat that would be their primary, so the other two can't be raised above a certain point?
Also, that would affect their disciplines, if they chose speed, they could get Celerity? (I really didn't want Celerity along with Potence and Fortitude, I think that would be overpowered)

Interesting question with the IT manager :) Poor girl :P
Well, the knowledges one had as a human would remain in her vampiric state, but she would find it very difficult to sit and look at numbers when all she wants to do is fight and shed blood. Sure, she could learn how to control herself over the years, but at first she would just smash the computer because she got bored after 10 minutes :D
Know your own limit in the use of power. Releasing all out is 90% of the way to defeat.

Offline Nigama

  • Dead
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 1883
Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2015, 05:01:47 PM »
I did intend them to be rare, because they are really savage and powerful, especially in a pack, so if they were more common, they would cause TOO much chaos in the entire world, impose tyranny and kill humans like ducks.
But I guess I could divise a way for them to still be rare, without the slightly weird way of embracing. Maybe they organise tournaments amongst themselves and the weakest one in every tournament is killed? Or maybe when an aspiring Lelwani wants to overthrow the leader of his pack, he must do so by killing him?

Those sound like interesting alternatives to show off their savageness.

Quote
Ah yes, the penalty to social interaction, like, they can't (or can, but only on weaker targets or with great difficulty) use Seduction or Persuasion, but have a bonus to Intimidation?

Yeah, I was thinking like a blanket +2 diff on all Social rolls (in WoD that'd be Charisma/Manipulation/Appearance rolls), as the character's instincts push them to solve problems with force or they get frustrated and angry, which could lead to a Control (Frenzy) check.  But yeah you could also give a bump to Intim.  However, instead of giving them Intim (let the player choose their own stats, if they want to be intimidating), I have another idea.  I would not make this true across all the vampire lineages, just the Lelwani.  Maybe you could give them a new stat.  I am basically thinking a corollary to Rage as it is in Werewolf: the Apocalypse. To quote the website WoD Gotham (http://wiki.wodgotham.com/index.php?title=Rage):

"Rage is a primal drive that urges characters, no matter the auspice, to rend, kill, destroy other creatures and turn them into piles of meat. It's the drive to see every other living thing in the world as prey and targets for attack. It's not only Garou arrogance to see themselves as Gaia's Chosen, but at the very core and primal level, their beasts see everything else as theirs to dominate, hunt, and kill.

Watch a classic werewolf movie and you'll see a tormented soul committing atrocities...rending neighbors, friends, family to bits indiscriminately. They may revel in it or may be horrified by their urges. They may warn people to stay away in the vain attempt to spare a few from his talons and fangs. That's the source of the inspiration for Rage.

Most humans will feel uneasy around Garou and avoid them. Garou awaken an instinct in humans to flee as prey flees the approach of a predator. When you watch a wild life show and see a pack of wolves stalk a herd of deer. The deer become alert, sensing the predator in their midst, and become nervous. The nervousness travels over the entire herd and as the predator moves past them the deer will give the wolf a wide berth until it has moved out of range of a strike. That is the effect of the Curse."

A trait that acted in the same way (made humans uneasy around them would be great and could give an even higher penalty to interactions with humans.  Humans would sense something primal and predatory about the character.  Still it would have to be developed more... what rolls would use the Rage stat?  What would make it increase and decrease?  Still, I think it's worth thinking about.

Quote
Or maybe, make a new Lelwani player select a physical stat that would be their primary, so the other two can't be raised above a certain point?
Also, that would affect their disciplines, if they chose speed, they could get Celerity?

Let's say physical stats are Strength, Dexterity and Stamina.  Let's say your stats are Str 3, Dex 2, Stam 2.  You couldn't raise your Str to 4, until BOTH Dex and Stam were at 3.  You only have a difference of 1 between the highest and lowest physical stat.  That way it would force a balanced approach and fighters couldn't specialize.

You could do the same thing with the supernatural powers.  You might have Potence at 1, but you can't raise it to 2 until you've purchased the first dot of Celerity AND Fortitude.

Quote
(I really didn't want Celerity along with Potence and Fortitude, I think that would be overpowered)

In the modern nights setting I'm putting together, each of the lineages will be associated with specific powers but (like WoD) all physical powers will be available to all lineages.  Also note that there are not three but four physical disciplines shared by the lineages.  Supernatural speed, strength, toughness and beauty.  There will be no version of the Appearance stat, you can decide how beautiful (or ugly) your character is. However, supernatural beauty is different regular mortal beauty and overlaps a bit with the WoD power of Presence (which will be called Awe in my game).

Quote
Interesting question with the IT manager :) Poor girl :P
Well, the knowledges one had as a human would remain in her vampiric state, but she would find it very difficult to sit and look at numbers when all she wants to do is fight and shed blood. Sure, she could learn how to control herself over the years, but at first she would just smash the computer because she got bored after 10 minutes :D

Wow... in that case I might even say that she should get the difficulty penalty not just on Social rolls, but also Mental rolls!  Her anger and directness prevent her from sitting still in a chair typing out code or fixing bugs.

Nigama
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 10:03:15 PM by Nigama »
"You may not remember us, but we may be responsible for your lack of memory."

Offline Valeera

  • Blackjack
  • Neonate
  • **
  • Posts: 81
  • Victory, not vengeance.
Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #50 on: February 09, 2015, 05:38:02 PM »
Yes, you are very helpful, Nigama, because you're thinking in terms of mechanics, while I'm just using storytelling logic- the two need each other for a complete result.

I like the concept of Rage, it would fit the Lelwani, but I would suggest that in that case, each lineage gets SOME new stat or skill or whatever (just so it doesn't appear that somebody was given more attention during game creation) for example, one of my other ideas for a lineage could get Luck (I'll type that idea after we've rounded up the Lelwani, it would get confusing otherwise) which would give them a (small) bonus to (certain) rolls OR function like an "x times per day night" ability (ie: 3 times per night a vampire with Luck could override a DC to not require a roll/add up the Luck modifier to the roll (up to a certain DC number, depending on how many points he/she has in Luck; that would help them cast a spell, pick a lock, dodge an attack etc.))


The way I imagined Lelwani, I already mentioned even depictions of sun would disturb them. Imagine if you showed them a statue of Ra! Even if they didn't know who Ra was, they would subconsciously know. So that could be one of the things that increase their Rage, while depictions of moon would decrease it (maybe they wear moon amulets or have tattoos of the moon, or adorn wherever they stay for the time being with figurines or pictures of moon) sure, they would get more prone to Rage the hungrier they get, or if they were unarmed, if it was long since they had a good fight etc.

I mean, if somebody is savage, they basically have no patience, that's why I think even a genius programmer would lose patience (but not knowledge and skill) after they became a Lelwani. Maybe if, while she was human, she was VERY patient and mild, it would be less of a problem, but I'd say all Lelwani get a piece of barbaric curse upon their creation.
(I kinda like the approach of first creating a human character with history and skills- I use that approach for my VtM game: for example, if a character was very charismatic, he/she could start with an extra dot in charisma, I mean, those things don't just go away once he/she is embraced. Even the Nosferatu COULD be charismatic- a charismatic Nos with a Mask of Thousand Faces or over the phone could get his desired result)

So, to not cripple the poor Lelwani programmer completely, let's say the Lelwani curse requires an occasional Self Control roll when doing Social and/or Mental actions (with DCs varying upon the action and PCs human character) and maybe if it's an action the PC as a human loved and was good at, the DC would be lower, required less frequently or non-existant.
So, in this case, say the Lelwani programmer was programming something. She's good at programming, but now she's rough with the keyboard, swearing a lot etc. Since it's an action she loves and is proficient at, it would only require her a Self Control roll if she was doing it for WAY too long at a time or if she encountered a particularly persistant code error (did I even use the proper term, I'm not a programmer)
Know your own limit in the use of power. Releasing all out is 90% of the way to defeat.

Offline Nigama

  • Dead
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 1883
Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2015, 02:45:23 AM »
I like the concept of Rage, it would fit the Lelwani, but I would suggest that in that case, each lineage gets SOME new stat or skill or whatever (just so it doesn't appear that somebody was given more attention during game creation) for example, one of my other ideas for a lineage could get Luck (I'll type that idea after we've rounded up the Lelwani, it would get confusing otherwise) which would give them a (small) bonus to (certain) rolls OR function like an "x times per day night" ability (ie: 3 times per night a vampire with Luck could override a DC to not require a roll/add up the Luck modifier to the roll (up to a certain DC number, depending on how many points he/she has in Luck; that would help them cast a spell, pick a lock, dodge an attack etc.))

Yeah... it could certainly be *doable* to give each lineage their own special trait, but then again, it might feel forced, too.  Sure, we could create a luck trait for one of the lineages, but then what about the other 6 or 7 lineages?  Eventually that trait is gonna feel awkward and out of place or just plain forced.  I honestly have no problem only giving it to one lineage.  It should have a benefit but also an equal drawback.  We've figured out the drawback (if a human's willpower is lower than the player's rage (Savagery?) they will instinctively feel unease and flee the player).  That could further represented by a +1 diff on Social roles with humans whose willpower is lower than the player's savagery.  The only thing would be to give it some positive to balance it out, since you would already be giving the Lelwani a flaw (see below).


Quote
The way I imagined Lelwani, I already mentioned even depictions of sun would disturb them. Imagine if you showed them a statue of Ra! Even if they didn't know who Ra was, they would subconsciously know. So that could be one of the things that increase their Rage, while depictions of moon would decrease it (maybe they wear moon amulets or have tattoos of the moon, or adorn wherever they stay for the time being with figurines or pictures of moon) sure, they would get more prone to Rage the hungrier they get, or if they were unarmed, if it was long since they had a good fight etc.

Just want to bring up that moonlight is really just a reflection of sunlight.  So under the logic above, Lelwani might not be able to go outside on a full moon. (heh.. it's like a reverse werewolf)  EDIT: Or only able to go outside on a new moon!  That'd be a serious flaw.

Quote
I mean, if somebody is savage, they basically have no patience, that's why I think even a genius programmer would lose patience (but not knowledge and skill) after they became a Lelwani. Maybe if, while she was human, she was VERY patient and mild, it would be less of a problem, but I'd say all Lelwani get a piece of barbaric curse upon their creation.
(I kinda like the approach of first creating a human character with history and skills- I use that approach for my VtM game: for example, if a character was very charismatic, he/she could start with an extra dot in charisma, I mean, those things don't just go away once he/she is embraced. Even the Nosferatu COULD be charismatic- a charismatic Nos with a Mask of Thousand Faces or over the phone could get his desired result)

So, to not cripple the poor Lelwani programmer completely, let's say the Lelwani curse requires an occasional Self Control roll when doing Social and/or Mental actions (with DCs varying upon the action and PCs human character) and maybe if it's an action the PC as a human loved and was good at, the DC would be lower, required less frequently or non-existant.
So, in this case, say the Lelwani programmer was programming something. She's good at programming, but now she's rough with the keyboard, swearing a lot etc. Since it's an action she loves and is proficient at, it would only require her a Self Control roll if she was doing it for WAY too long at a time or if she encountered a particularly persistant code error (did I even use the proper term, I'm not a programmer)

Hmm... so let's say instead of a +2 diff flaw to Social and Mental rolls, it's just a +1.  That way if the character is skilled, they'll still be able to do their job, but their job will become one degree harder (rolling their dice pool at diff 7 vs diff 6).  Also, you could work in the Control check by saying, if they try something (mental or social) AND FAIL that roll, they then have to succeed in a Control roll or they lose control and attack anyone/thing around them (smashing computer screens, attacking coworkers).  A failure on a physical roll would not do anything, since they were already trying to rip things to pieces, shred them or at least exert themselves physically.


Nigama
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 05:40:42 AM by Nigama »
"You may not remember us, but we may be responsible for your lack of memory."

Offline Valeera

  • Blackjack
  • Neonate
  • **
  • Posts: 81
  • Victory, not vengeance.
Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2015, 07:32:29 AM »
I chuckled at reverse werewolf :-) but since the goddess Lelwani WAS able to understand the secret of the moon and perform the correct ritual with it, I'd say the moon is altogether safe for them (it would kinda ruin the player's experience if other players were going out and the ST kept bugging them with "but it's not a new moon, you must remain inside"- and there ARE asshole STs- my VtM ST would make me roll Control with my Malk every turn so it would be just a matter of time when I'd fail- imagine how he would be towards a Lelwani.

Come to think of it, you are right, HAVING to give every lineage a unique trait might feel forced, but it's a nice idea to keep in mind if a lineage feels unfinished.

I just remembered something: what if a new Lelwani had to choose the most favourite and the least favourite Mental skill? For example, Computers is the most favourite: it requires no rolls. Research is the least favourite: it has upped diff (bad example, since today we do research via computer, but you get my point)
But also making them roll Self Control only if they fail a Mental action is a great idea- perhaps the best yet.

Regarding Social: maybe they can't converse with easily scared humans, but the werewolves instinctively won't attack them first?
Know your own limit in the use of power. Releasing all out is 90% of the way to defeat.

Offline Rick Gentle

  • Gangrel Playboy
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 3057
Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2015, 05:46:27 PM »
I don't think giving each lineage a unique modifier of some kind would impose that much more difficulty on the players. In Dungeons and Dragons, you have a crap-ton of class restrictions, and feats only certain classes or races can take, and players manage those. As long as you don't have too many lineages to begin with, it should be fine.

I think a "reverse werewolf" would be a Lupus-breed - a wolf who turns into a man every full moon!
Remember: It's not the size of your fangs that matters; it's what you stick them in.

Offline Nigama

  • Dead
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 1883
Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2015, 07:09:27 PM »
I don't think giving each lineage a unique modifier of some kind would impose that much more difficulty on the players. In Dungeons and Dragons, you have a crap-ton of class restrictions, and feats only certain classes or races can take, and players manage those. As long as you don't have too many lineages to begin with, it should be fine.

The problem wasn't so much that the players couldn't handle it, it was that creating it in the first place might feel forced.  The stat for the Lelwani came up naturally, inspired by their concept.  So say I go to a different lineage and that lineage doesn't really suggest an obvious special trait.  Are we to make up something just for the sake of having it?  Why create a special trait if it's not inspired by the concept and necessary to portray that concept in game play?  My only concern is that it's balanced.  It shouldn't be an auto "I win" nor should it be something crippling or detrimental.

Quote
I think a "reverse werewolf" would be a Lupus-breed - a wolf who turns into a man every full moon!

I was specifically speaking about the reverse in moon phase.  Werewolves traditionally go wild and lose control on full moons.  The Lelwani would have to stay inside on full moons cuz they'd insta-die from the moonlight.  New Moons would be their thing, instead.  In that case, the lineage would have gone down the darkness road and turned into the Lasombra!  And Valeera was right to note that the mythology includes learning the secrets of the moon, so it wouldn't really work for the concept anyway, but was just a natural extrapolation of the idea that the sun hurts them so much that even a picture or symbol or word hurts them.  Moonlight is just sunlight reflected, after all.

Also, maybe the opposite of a Werewolf is a Werehuman?  Hehehe... or as D&D called it a Wolfwere?  Lupus are definitely it in the WoD, but I have seen MANY a W:tF fanboy rage against the idea of playing a Lupus.

Nigama
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 07:11:39 PM by Nigama »
"You may not remember us, but we may be responsible for your lack of memory."

Offline Ryot

  • Fledgling
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #55 on: February 11, 2015, 01:52:00 PM »
Aren't there some ideas from VtM that are just to good to toss away, but would be copyrighted? such as the Nosferatu concept, the clan that lives hidden in the sewers because of their appearance and became masters of information, I think that concept is just to awesome to toss aside, but would including such a bloodline in a totally unrelated vampire myth system a copyright violation?

Offline Nigama

  • Dead
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 1883
Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #56 on: February 11, 2015, 02:10:37 PM »
Aren't there some ideas from VtM that are just to good to toss away, but would be copyrighted? such as the Nosferatu concept, the clan that lives hidden in the sewers because of their appearance and became masters of information, I think that concept is just to awesome to toss aside, but would including such a bloodline in a totally unrelated vampire myth system a copyright violation?

Creating a lineage part of whose curse includes being forced to be ugly certainly can be done.  You could even give them advantages to stealth and computers because they have to rely on those things in order to interact with the world.  However, if you call them Clan Nosferatu, give them a similar backstory to Absimiliard's creation story, include a group that's like them but even more hardcore that hunts and kills them, and has a power exactly the same as Obfuscate (clouding mens' minds so they don't see you, or appearing as a different person) I think you'd be in danger because those concepts ARE theirs.  However, instead of Obfuscate you could give them actual Invisibility or shadow manipulation so they can hide better in darkness.  CCP doesn't own those ideas and if they were stupid enough to sue you over it, all they'd be paying is your court costs.

Nigama
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 12:53:19 AM by Nigama »
"You may not remember us, but we may be responsible for your lack of memory."

Offline Valeera

  • Blackjack
  • Neonate
  • **
  • Posts: 81
  • Victory, not vengeance.
Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #57 on: February 11, 2015, 03:21:04 PM »
One of my other ideas actually DOES include the lineage to be really really ugly (though not for the same reason or in the same way as the Nosferatu, so I don't think anybody could say we violated any copyright) I mean, who owns mythology and old superstitions? Nobody.

Hey, I have an idea. I think it would be good (if you guys agree, of course) if we could exchange Facebook info, so any detailed mechanic ideas could go through there, because I'm online there basically all the time, and it would go faster (all the FB messages go directly to my phone) and also so we don't broaden up this thread TOO much, so the lineage ideas could still be easily found. Of course, we would post the finished lineage mechanic on here, so everybody could see it, but just so we don't clog up this thread with trial-and-error posts.

If anybody's up for it, PM me and I'll give you a link to my facebook profile.



On to the fun stuff!

The abovementioned other idea:

In Slavic mythology (yes, I just HAVE to do it because I'm Serbian :P) vampires (and werewolves, various types of fairies, screamers (that are erroneusly identified by Wiki as types of vampires) ghosts...) are a big part of the superstition. Also, the first documented cases of "vampirism" happened in Croatia and Serbia, and the word "vampir" is also from here.
It would be a great shame if I didn't at least put it up for consideration.

There isn't a specific creation myth for vampires with us Slavs, I must say that. Certain parts of the superstition resemble what other mythologies already had with "bloodsucking demons".

Basically, a vampire with Slavs is a being that rises from the grave. It isn't Embraced but a human with predispositions is sometimes born or certain things happen to them that may make them rise as vampires after they die.
Simplified, a vampire is someone who had some unfinished business or died while holding a grudge, so he comes back to haunt his neighbours and family, sometimes he would just engage in poltergeist activity, and sometimes he would bring downright mysery, kill cattle and people etc. (in Serbia, every mean-spirited supernatural being is scaring cattle, that seems to be their main goal :D)

Redheads with blue eyes were believed to become vampires, if a cat or a dog jumped over a grave, if somebody died by suicide or if somebody died insane etc.

Also,(male) vampires could reproduce and so became the concept of half-vampires, known as dhampyrs/dampirs, who were the only ones (besides twins born on a Saturday, and cattle) who could see a vampire, since they were normally invisible or barely visible, and would fall apart in goo when killed. Garlic harmed them, they couldn't cross over running water, a shot to the head killed them, or a stake through their heart, head or stomach (depending on which Slavic country you ask) Stake in question had to be hawthorne (in Serbia, I'm not sure about other countries, maybe it was an oak in Russia) and also, varying from country to country, vampires were either bloated and dark/purple, or pretty similar to the human when he was alive.
Common methods of driving vampires away was throwing grains on the roof of your house, telling them to "come tomorrow, and I will give you some salt" or "come and catch some fish and then return to me" and also they couldn't step on consecrated ground or enter somebody's house without being invited (though after you first invite them, they could come and go as they please)

I was thinking of stripping away some of these superstitions (I mean, twins born on a Saturday? Grains on house-roofs?) and keeping only what wouldn't sound completely ridiculous, and maybe connect them to the actual mythology (which would prove kinda difficult as Slavic gods were rather cyclic and almost all of them would be good in summer and bad in winter)
I did find the idea of them being bloated and dark from the blood to be good, so they would be hideous, they would have stealth (invisible to almost everybody) and I'd rather like to keep the "haunting" aspect. That's why I was thinking they should have Luck as a feat/stat, my idea was that they suck the luck out of the area that they haunt that was important to them while they were alive, and then that luck is theirs. 

If you'd like me to devise a more "down-to-the-point" idea as with the Lelwani, let me know, but for now I just wanted to see if you find this type of vampires to be even remotely interesting.
Know your own limit in the use of power. Releasing all out is 90% of the way to defeat.

Offline Rick Gentle

  • Gangrel Playboy
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 3057
Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #58 on: February 11, 2015, 11:49:12 PM »
... has a power exactly the same as Obfuscate (clouding mens' minds so they don't see you, or appearing as a different person) I think you'd be in danger because those concepts ARE theirs.  However, instead of Obfuscate you could give them actual Invisibility or shadow manipulation so they can hide better in darkness.
Fixed^

Also, in post-Christianized Slavic lore, didn't vampires have to be buried in unconsecrated ground, and/or not be buried under a crossroads? I.e., not buried under the sign of the Christian cross.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 11:52:59 PM by Rick Gentle »
Remember: It's not the size of your fangs that matters; it's what you stick them in.

Offline Nigama

  • Dead
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 1883
Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2015, 12:58:32 AM »
... has a power exactly the same as Obfuscate (clouding mens' minds so they don't see you, or appearing as a different person) I think you'd be in danger because those concepts ARE theirs.  However, instead of Obfuscate you could give them actual Invisibility or shadow manipulation so they can hide better in darkness.
Fixed^

Derp.  Thanks.  Was reading the fan site about Abyssal Mysticism today, must've wormed its way into my brain and taken over Obfuscate.  Fixed in the original as well.

Valeera - I'm still mulling it over, but I like the idea of actually doing a vampire lineage from the area and culture where vampire lore originates.  It's funny that so many vampires from different lores rarely keep the classic weaknesses.  That itself would be pretty cool to see and I always liked Max from Lost Boys asking permission before he enters the house. Very easy thing to do and nothing out of place asking permission to come in, people would rarely suspect a thing.  Not being able to cross running water might be tough to RP out, though, and garlic would probably be nonexistent as a threat unless you came upon some really dumb hunters (since most other lineages wouldn't have those classic weaknesses, hunters would largely think they didn't work).

Also, the traditional lore kindof leaves them without a lineage founder.  Hrm....   

As for Facebook, I can't say I get on it much.  I do have two accounts, one for my family and friends and one for gaming, but I rarely get on it. 

Nigama
"You may not remember us, but we may be responsible for your lack of memory."