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Author Topic: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)  (Read 11340 times)

Offline silhouette666

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Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2014, 04:36:05 AM »
So, again, I'm biased against Christianity, but what I'd really like to see fleshed out more is the Lamashtu Lineage and the Nekros Lineage.  There was some really interesting stuff I noticed in the Lamashtu legend on Pazuzu.  Basically people would wear amulets of Pazuzu to ward off Lamashtu because myth/legends say that Pazuzu has beaten Lamashtu before (and the implication is that he could again).  The best part is... Pazuzu himself is an evil god!  Using an evil god to protect yourself from another evil god just seems RIPE for a vampire game. :)

You have some awesome ideas for sure.  At the end of the day this whole "project" is kindof open source, so you can pick and choose to explore whatever tickles your fancy.  No one is going to tell you what's right or wrong.  The whole point of the multiple origin stories is the possibility that none and all are true at the same time.  Can't wait to see how these ideas continue to develop.

Nigama

I appreciate your honest input. I would like to say that I'm not Christian. In fact, I'm an atheist, but I am a bit fascinated with Lilith. I wasn't taken back by your rant at all. xD I completely get you on getting a bit too close to VtM. I had to look into things a bit because even the Christianity myth is not something I'm completely educated in.

I do agree that Lamashtu and the "Nekros" clans are the most unique, and the Nekros would be my favorite. I, however, don't want Lamashtu to be remotely comparable to VTM's Nosferatu clan. Should they appear "rotted" or could they be more animal-like? Kind of Gangrel as far as transformation, but not into a wolf-like creature but in somewhat of a resemblance to how Lamashtu was described? Not really sure.

The Nekros was kind of inspired by Tremere, thinking that if the Tremere can create Gargoyles, they can go as far as to create a spirit-like vampire. If there IS anything similar to this in the clanbooks, I apologize... I haven't read them all.

I know I had read earlier in this thread, or at least I thought I did, was the idea of cannibalism and the Nagaraja. Pisha, honestly, was one of my favorite characters in Bloodlines and I would have loved to have dived into that a bit more (which is why I added the clan that consumes flesh instead of just drinking blood). But it is true in that being a vampire and eating flesh are very different things. I suppose Nagaraja clan aren't really vampires? Anyways, getting off topic.

Now, I know in the VTM world, sex is not a thing at all. However, in other vampire films, sex is used not to seduce always but as an actual love scene. Anne Rice, however, nothing really sexual happens but her vampires are still fairly human in the desire for companionship. VTM vamps aren't very much like that. I mean, sure, you can team up with Camarilla or Anarchs or whatever but it's not really because they're lonely. Again, if the clanbooks explained this further, I don't know the details but some examples like Underworld show humanlike characteristics. I find the idea of vampires bearing children to be something interesting. It'd make vampires more of a biological mutation rather than a religious myth.

Something to think about.
Again, I appreciate the honesty.

Offline Radical21

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Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2014, 04:49:34 AM »
For the benefit of everyone I stayed away for a long time only to find now (not very surprising) that Project Vaulderie has been cancelled.
((Edit: in the end I broke down and wrote this :
CCPGames, since community efforts to renew VTMR/VTMB on modern engines have received a 'C&D notice', I think its only fair that CCPGames/WW would present an alternative that does not simply close the lid over a community of gamers that have been playing/modding the now outdated, World of Darkness PC games for over 12-14 years.

We want a new World of Darkness PC Game or remake of the unique multilayer mode featured in the VTM:R game by nihilistic. I ask you let us know your intentions for the IP going forward and begin engaging the World of Darkness community on a semi-regular basis...

Don't be another corporation that jealously sits on an IP only to bury it in the pages of history..
))

Currently I'm still playing NWN in hopes of creating/finding RP, but the truth is that I miss VTM in its most original form. If this could grow to be something like that great, if not less great.. I think each  of us probably has that amazing VTM Chronicle they will remember for the rest of their lives and want to get back to. I hope the end result of this Origin project would allow to accomplish a similar experience.

Since I'm not really contributor to this anymore I just want to say that IMO originality doesn't really factor here and most of the ideas here already appeared in one form or the other, doesn't mean they are all less interesting to play.
The result of trying to force originality would probably be something like League of Legends lore  where the theme is something obscure to include as many bizarre ideas as possible. Maybe even steampunk/anime Vampires. :justabite:
 
« Last Edit: December 21, 2014, 05:18:36 AM by Radical21 »

Offline silhouette666

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Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2014, 07:03:15 PM »
Ah, so a spirit vampire does not sound original at all? I don't think I've seen anything like that unless you have, Radical.

Offline Radical21

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Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2014, 08:09:11 PM »
Ah, so a spirit vampire does not sound original at all? I don't think I've seen anything like that unless you have, Radical.

Like I said, I don't think originality matters here at this point. If it is original great, if it isn't doesn't matter. IMO What matters is how does it play, what history can be built around it and how you flesh out the concept..

And yes Spirit Vampire is not that original, I have seen it in various other settings including Legacy of Kain and Pokemon.
I'd be more interested if I knew WHY it is a Spirit Vampire, How does it relate to the world and the other vampires and why does it keep existing as it is.
For the rest I also ask myself, does spirit vampire play well with the theme and mood of what we are creating?
I think that is more important than if its original or not.
Now please stop asking me these questions because you are probably only going to get answers like this from me and I don't want to discourage you.


I should also add that you don't have to come up with a new gimmick for people to appreciate what you create. In fact most of the concepts White Wolf seem designed based off something from history or a role they wanted for that archetype and then they fleshed out things around it rather than start from having the 'gimmick powers' and then figure out why they are there.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 08:24:44 PM by Radical21 »

Offline Nigama

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Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2014, 06:30:22 AM »
Well.... there is the famous phrase "There's nothing new under the sun" (Ecclesiastes 1:9).  And another.. "Creativity is knowing how to hide your sources" (Albert Einstein).

I think there is definitely something to be said for "creativity" and "freshness" in a game.  If the game feels stale and rehashed, people won't want to play it.  But I also recognize that nothing is truly original, all work is inspired and derivative, it's just how well hidden or unknown are your inspirations... 

I can only say what I'd like to see more of.  I'd like to see the Lamashtu stuff fleshed out more and I think personally I'd play with the more animalistic (merging of the animal parts with human body) and primal (it's from such a primal time period) aspects.  With the Nekros I think I'm with Radical in that I want to see how they function in the world and how they keep going.  I'd be disappointed to see the same thing as with Gargoyles (slaves of magick wielding vampires struggling for freedom).  The Nekros do seem to have some serious drawbacks (from what I've read) and yet they could be incredibly scary and frightening in their own way.


Nigama
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Offline silhouette666

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Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #35 on: December 23, 2014, 06:32:05 PM »
Well.... there is the famous phrase "There's nothing new under the sun" (Ecclesiastes 1:9).  And another.. "Creativity is knowing how to hide your sources" (Albert Einstein).

I think there is definitely something to be said for "creativity" and "freshness" in a game.  If the game feels stale and rehashed, people won't want to play it.  But I also recognize that nothing is truly original, all work is inspired and derivative, it's just how well hidden or unknown are your inspirations... 

I can only say what I'd like to see more of.  I'd like to see the Lamashtu stuff fleshed out more and I think personally I'd play with the more animalistic (merging of the animal parts with human body) and primal (it's from such a primal time period) aspects.  With the Nekros I think I'm with Radical in that I want to see how they function in the world and how they keep going.  I'd be disappointed to see the same thing as with Gargoyles (slaves of magick wielding vampires struggling for freedom).  The Nekros do seem to have some serious drawbacks (from what I've read) and yet they could be incredibly scary and frightening in their own way.


Nigama

I suppose I was thinking the Nekros could be a lot like the Kuei-Jin (or at least this is how I think the Kuei-Jin feed) in that they don't have to drink blood, but that they can still take the energy from a source. Being an orb or apparition is obviously their natural form but to be seen by humans, or even vampires, they have to use their energy to be seen. I doubt that they would be slaves in that the Nekros would incredibly difficult to control. Their makers, in fact, almost regretted their creation to give a clan so much of an advantage.

What drawbacks are those exactly?

Offline Nigama

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Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #36 on: January 28, 2015, 07:05:55 PM »
Well.... there is the famous phrase "There's nothing new under the sun" (Ecclesiastes 1:9).  And another.. "Creativity is knowing how to hide your sources" (Albert Einstein).

I think there is definitely something to be said for "creativity" and "freshness" in a game.  If the game feels stale and rehashed, people won't want to play it.  But I also recognize that nothing is truly original, all work is inspired and derivative, it's just how well hidden or unknown are your inspirations... 

I can only say what I'd like to see more of.  I'd like to see the Lamashtu stuff fleshed out more and I think personally I'd play with the more animalistic (merging of the animal parts with human body) and primal (it's from such a primal time period) aspects.  With the Nekros I think I'm with Radical in that I want to see how they function in the world and how they keep going.  I'd be disappointed to see the same thing as with Gargoyles (slaves of magick wielding vampires struggling for freedom).  The Nekros do seem to have some serious drawbacks (from what I've read) and yet they could be incredibly scary and frightening in their own way.


Nigama

I suppose I was thinking the Nekros could be a lot like the Kuei-Jin (or at least this is how I think the Kuei-Jin feed) in that they don't have to drink blood, but that they can still take the energy from a source. Being an orb or apparition is obviously their natural form but to be seen by humans, or even vampires, they have to use their energy to be seen. I doubt that they would be slaves in that the Nekros would incredibly difficult to control. Their makers, in fact, almost regretted their creation to give a clan so much of an advantage.

What drawbacks are those exactly?

Well, the main source of their power is also their main drawback; they don't have a body.

Nigama
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Offline Rick Gentle

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Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #37 on: January 28, 2015, 07:22:06 PM »
I've always been a bit uncomfortable with the idea of vampires being much more (or less) than corpses who drink blood and burn in the sun. If they're incorporeal, they sound an awful lot more like an adaptation of the Orpheus game than something directly out of Vampire. I think one of the reasons that Vampire works so well is that vampires are corporeal - they CAN be destroyed, sometimes easily (like in sunlight), and they have physical, corporeal urges to fulfill.
Now, of course, this is a new IP, with new rules and expectations... but what does being incorporeal really add to the experience?
Remember: It's not the size of your fangs that matters; it's what you stick them in.

Offline Nigama

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Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #38 on: January 28, 2015, 07:27:47 PM »
*** WIP ***

Blood Lineage: Golem

Founder: The Founder is the original golem created by Rava in an attempt to recreate what JHVH did when creating mankind. It was noted to be a fake and was destroyed. Made from clay or stone, many times over the years golem was remade by different philosophers in an attempt to recreate life, only to be destroyed again when found to be imperfect.

Eventually, a man named Gaon R. Eliyahu Ba'al Shem saw a more utilitarian use for the golem; to perform his hard labor. For many long years golem performed his labor dutifully, silently, capably. However, when his master saw that as each year passed the golem became stronger and tougher he grew afraid. Gaon decided to kill the golem before he grew too powerful to destroy, but the golem had grown fond of existence and resisted, even wounding his master. But it was too late for the golem and he was destroyed again.

Many years the golem lay dormant, without form, until Judah Loew ben Bezalel, a Polish rabbi created him to defend the Jews against attacks from the Christian ruler. For the first time, he was given a name, Josef. Again, he did his job admirably and many lives were saved during the pogroms and antisemitic attacks in the late 16th century. However, again, the golem grew too fond of life. Before he could become so powerful as to scare his controller, he made the mistake of falling in love with a Jewish woman. When his desires became known to his master, he was again attacked, broken into pieces and stored in the attic of a Jewish synagogue. There, by sheer force of will, the golem reformed himself, becoming his own master.

Now free of his bonds he sought immediately for the source of his desires. She, however, reacted with horror at the monstrosity which appeared before her and overcome with fright she fought and then ran. Feelings wounded by the rejection, the golem went on a murderous rampage, during which he learned that drinking the blood of his enemies gave him strength and a more human complexion. After that night, the golem disappeared from the traces of history and no Jewish scholars left details of how to create another. Yet Josef, the original Golem found ways to create and pass on his gifts to mortals who are close to death.

Blood Strengths: Toughness, Strength, Shifting

Associated Stuffs: Stone, admire independence and freedom

Blood Weaknesses:  Difficulty speaking or with social skills. Those with magical sight will see strange writing in golden, foreign letters (it says "Truth" in ancient Hebrew) often over the Golem's forehead and, more rarely, over their lips. Cannot take Legerity (Supernatural Speed), but gains a free point in both Puissance and Aegis.

Power Base:  Toughness and Strength
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 09:28:05 PM by Nigama »
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Offline Nigama

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Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2015, 07:39:02 PM »
Well, I can't answer for Silhouette, only my own interpretation for the modern nights version I'm working on. So, please, keep that in mind. I'm sure she probably has a different vision for them.

I've always been a bit uncomfortable with the idea of vampires being much more (or less) than corpses who drink blood and burn in the sun.

This will not change for the Nekros in my game. Sunlight will still kill them, they will need to drink as much blood as any other vampire, and stakes through the heart will still incapacitate (so long as it's done while the Nekros is corporeal). In fact, they will have a power that allows them different levels of substantiation, especially for physical/combat uses (thus also opening themselves up to harm/destruction).

 
Quote
If they're incorporeal, they sound an awful lot more like an adaptation of the Orpheus game than something directly out of Vampire.

I'm okay with that. I don't WANT to copy Vampire exactly, I simply want to let it inspire me. So should the fact that V:tM doesn't have a semi-incorporeal vampire type to play restrict me?  No way. That's part of the benefit of creating our own tools and backstory. At the end of the day, the question I want to ask is... is it fun?  And I don't think that can really get answered until someone plays it.

Quote
I think one of the reasons that Vampire works so well is that vampires are corporeal - they CAN be destroyed, sometimes easily (like in sunlight), and they have physical, corporeal urges to fulfill.

This is actually something I've been annoyed by in many vampire lore iterations that are out there. Why the fuck would vampires care about sex at all?  Except as a means to lure in a human to suck their blood/kill them.  But time and time again you see vampire characters, even in V:tM, falling in erotic love with other vampires or mortals.  To me, that has always be ridiculous. The closest thing to vampire sex, to me, is when Lestat and Akasha finally meet in Queen of the Damned, if I'm not mistaken. They each bite each other and stand there exchanging blood, memories, and feelings. That's so much more intimate than any two humans will ever get, imho, and in addition to the rush of constantly taking in blood, vampire blood, it'd put an orgasm to shame.

Quote
Now, of course, this is a new IP, with new rules and expectations... but what does being incorporeal really add to the experience?

It's not been done before, so it's a new experience, and it tends to force one to play the Mental and Social combat systems.

Nigama
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Offline Rick Gentle

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Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2015, 08:07:18 PM »
By the same token, Nigama, why does a vampire (much less an incorporeal vampire) have to get a "rush" or "orgasm" when ingesting blood? It could just be like food - you might have a really good steak, but it's nowhere near like having an orgasm. If the Nekros do turn out to be incorporeal by default, then maybe their "rush" when consuming life-essence has more to do with the fact that they get to continue to EXIST, and that their soul and mind are so much more powerful than their victims. I.e., a mental satisfaction, instead of a physical or emotional one. A sense of superiority, a rejection of oblivion, the sheer thrill of being alive after a near-death experience. That could be at least as addicting as vampire-sex.
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Offline Nigama

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Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2015, 08:50:47 PM »
By the same token, Nigama, why does a vampire (much less an incorporeal vampire) have to get a "rush" or "orgasm" when ingesting blood? It could just be like food - you might have a really good steak, but it's nowhere near like having an orgasm. If the Nekros do turn out to be incorporeal by default, then maybe their "rush" when consuming life-essence has more to do with the fact that they get to continue to EXIST, and that their soul and mind are so much more powerful than their victims. I.e., a mental satisfaction, instead of a physical or emotional one. A sense of superiority, a rejection of oblivion, the sheer thrill of being alive after a near-death experience. That could be at least as addicting as vampire-sex.

Indeed!  :cometome:
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Offline Valeera

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Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2015, 05:16:51 PM »
Can anybody join in on the brainstorming and suggesting or do you guys already have everything/everybody you need?

Because this sounds amazeballs ^_^
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Offline Nigama

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Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2015, 02:05:26 AM »
Can anybody join in on the brainstorming and suggesting or do you guys already have everything/everybody you need?

Because this sounds amazeballs ^_^

Still open.  The idea in this area is not to create a certain set number of lineages.  Instead we want you to invent whatever vampire creation myth you want, ideally grounded in some real world or historical element.  You can polish it as much as you like, and you can extrapolate to the modern nights what those lineages might look like.  The idea is that all of this is open source and free to use and change so long as credit is given (essentially pointing back to Planet Vampire and acknowledging the creative genius of everyone who has posted in this thread  :rock:  ).

I'm kindof putting together my own modern nights version of a game using some of the ideas already posted here.  That game is over int he Vampire Planet RPG thread.  I called it that because of the forum we are on, but also because the main conflict is between the group that wants to stay hidden (and safe) vs those that want to openly rule the humans.  In order to handicap the "bad" guys (those that wish to rule humankind), I've made it much harder to sire.  Mass embracing is really what created the Cam and Sabbat.

Nigama
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 02:13:05 AM by Nigama »
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Offline Valeera

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Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2015, 11:59:21 AM »
Thanks for the answer. Can I pluck your gray matter some more?

I have a couple of ideas (will post in detail when I get to my computer, typing on my smartphone at the moment) but one of them really depends on how you imagined the world when it comes to the masquerade: is it of utmost priority, or do people coexist with supernatural creatures, or something in the middle? 
Know your own limit in the use of power. Releasing all out is 90% of the way to defeat.