collapse

Author Topic: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)  (Read 10732 times)

Offline Valeera

  • Blackjack
  • Neonate
  • **
  • Posts: 81
  • Victory, not vengeance.
Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #60 on: February 12, 2015, 09:43:14 AM »
I believe we would have to drop the not being able to cross running water or maybe make them have to carry a bit of their native soil with them when they do (that entire Tzimisce thing with native soil is also from these areas) or make them only able to cross it on a horse. Speaking of, I believe I've found a mythical being that could be the lineage founder (it's kinda like the most powerful demon on the Balkans, as old as the Iron Age, split into two saints in Christianity)
Will type it out in detail when I get to my computer.
Know your own limit in the use of power. Releasing all out is 90% of the way to defeat.

Offline Rick Gentle

  • Gangrel Playboy
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 3057
Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #61 on: February 12, 2015, 09:46:16 PM »
This demon's name wouldn't happened to be "Kupala", would it?
Remember: It's not the size of your fangs that matters; it's what you stick them in.

Offline Valeera

  • Blackjack
  • Neonate
  • **
  • Posts: 81
  • Victory, not vengeance.
Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #62 on: February 13, 2015, 12:18:03 AM »
No. In actual mythology (not the WoD one) Kupala is the goddess of water, herbs, sex and Midsummer. She was later "transformed" into John The Baptist (as Kupala means "she bathed" and kupati- to bathe) she was a good entity.
Know your own limit in the use of power. Releasing all out is 90% of the way to defeat.

Offline Nigama

  • Dead
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 1883
Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #63 on: February 13, 2015, 02:20:29 AM »
I believe we would have to drop the not being able to cross running water or maybe make them have to carry a bit of their native soil with them when they do (that entire Tzimisce thing with native soil is also from these areas) or make them only able to cross it on a horse. Speaking of, I believe I've found a mythical being that could be the lineage founder (it's kinda like the most powerful demon on the Balkans, as old as the Iron Age, split into two saints in Christianity)
Will type it out in detail when I get to my computer.

Since you didn't post today, I'm gonna go ahead and guess... is it Veles?  Or Ala?

Nigama
"You may not remember us, but we may be responsible for your lack of memory."

Offline Rick Gentle

  • Gangrel Playboy
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 3057
Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #64 on: February 13, 2015, 05:29:37 AM »
Kup-Ala! It's perfect!
Remember: It's not the size of your fangs that matters; it's what you stick them in.

Offline Valeera

  • Blackjack
  • Neonate
  • **
  • Posts: 81
  • Victory, not vengeance.
Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #65 on: February 13, 2015, 09:32:20 AM »
You're not too far off the mark with Veles, regarding domain, but it's not him. Ala is just a malevolent type of dragon (ala means glutton)

Ok, I'll have to type it out from my phone.

In Paleo-Balkan mythology, there is a motif of an underworld god/ great hero called Thracian Horseman. He would keep the balance between the world of the living and the world of the dead, release slaves, and kill Ala/Azdajas with a spear (sounds like a Christian saint, anybody?)

But Slavs believed in their own, much scarier version of this myth: Todor and his nine brothers (Todorlings), the white-clad faceless horsemen who would ride through the night and trample or gut  anybody who they found alone. They could also bring illness or madness, and one could know they're coming by hearing horse-shoes and rattling of chains (remains of the Thracian horseman, who freed slaves from chains)

After Christianisation, it is said that it was in fact St. Theodor, protector of horses and cattle and they would celebrate his night sometime in July, I think, yeda, yeda.

So! My mythology for this. Ok, so there's Todor. He also has 9 brothers. What if he was in fact the "Caine" of this lineage, his 9 brothers are the Antediluvians/Methuselahs and they go around and choose individuals by releasing them of slavery? What damn slavery, you might ask. To me, biggest slaves are madmen. And since vampiric mythology does mention madmen rising as vampires, there we go.

As for how Todor became a vampire: he was the Thracian Horseman, guardian of the underworld. He started accumulating arcane knowledge of magic he would encounter and became a potent mage over the centuries. He somewhere read/heard that drinking the blood of an Ala/Azdaja that he'd kill would enhance his power. His bosses in the underworld weren't very pleased when he gained enough power to not only free, but enslave, feed on life essence, cause madness and cast curses so they tried to destroy him, but he was pretty much death, he must exist so they settled for limiting his activity to one week in a year and protecting innocent people from him (he can't harm children)

Since then, Todor and Todorlings arise and ride once a year, choosing their minions among the mad, the vicious, the outcast or even cause madness in healthy people so they could claim them after they die.
Know your own limit in the use of power. Releasing all out is 90% of the way to defeat.

Offline Nigama

  • Dead
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 1883
Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #66 on: February 13, 2015, 06:31:18 PM »
Cool idea. It definitely helps to give an idea to where vampirism could have started, by choosing the mad/crazy people and "setting them free."  But it doesn't really support the ugliness at all. Did Todor have any weaknesses that were similar to classic vampiric weaknesses?

Why did the classic vampires have the weaknesses they had?  Why did they have to ask permission before coming in?  Why did folk magic of that area think it was good to use garlic to ward off vampires?  I think I get the wooden stake through the heart, since the wood is symbol of life.  I get holy water and crosses (holy used against unholy). There's a clear connection between classic vampirism and Christianity, so how does the Christianity play a role? 

Oh man, look at this!  It's perfect! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vampire_traits_in_folklore_and_fiction

So first classic (European folklore) appearance would be:
Ruddy or dark skin color, always having fangs, sometimes having a reflection, sometimes having a shadow, beauty level varies from bloated corpse to lifelike.

Weaknesses would be:
Ash, Hawthorne, or Oak Stake through heart to kill, nocturnal (killed by sunlight), able to be decapitated, burned to death and drowned, silver does nothing, garlic and holy symbols do, they have no problem to running water, no need for an invitation into the home, put do have arithmomania (they count stuff obsessively).

They have the standard powers, no big surprises there.

They can have kids! Reproduce through a bite that leads to death. Supposedly inhabited by demons!

Definitely seems like there is an awesome lineage in there somewhere, and boy do they sound evil and crazy!

I can't seem to find much information on the Thracian Horseman and all of it seems to be positive.  He even has a facebook page dedicated to him and his statues.  Didn't read anything dark or negative about him and couldn't find anything specifically on Todor or the Todorlings.

Nigama
"You may not remember us, but we may be responsible for your lack of memory."

Offline Valeera

  • Blackjack
  • Neonate
  • **
  • Posts: 81
  • Victory, not vengeance.
Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #67 on: February 13, 2015, 07:03:20 PM »
You are right, Nigama, Thracian horseman is a good guy! There are some clues about Hercul, Apollo and even Serbian Prince Marko fitting the Thracian Horseman archetype (even though Prince Marko was in fact a drunkard and cowardly Ottoman vassal. Argh. He somehow got to be the main hero in Serbian epic poems, while poor Vuk Brankovic, the only one who refused to serve the Turks, was portrayed as a traitor. Why and how is beyond me.)

Honestly, Slavic (vampire) superstitions mostly sound illogical and even silly to me. We are a superstitious folk, and roots of the superstitions are often vague. But I believe I have the answers to some of your questions (these are my deductions based on stories I've read/heard, but if something sounds fishy to you, point it out and I will double-check with my mythology-savvy boyfriend)

As for permission: Slavs honoured and respected the god who was a protector of travellers/wanderers. Maybe you've heard that Slavs are famous for their hospitality? The belief goes that this god (EDIT: His name was Radgost, which literally means "a welcome guest") would disguise himself as a poor traveller and choose a random house. He'd then ask the hosts for dinner and to spend the night. If they refused or if they've treated him poorly, he'd curse them, and if they were good hosts, he'd bless them and the family would thrive. Thus Slavs would accept any wanderer that would knock on their door, fearing that it might be the god in disguise.
So I presume a vampire, as an unholy creature, couldn't enter a home uninvited (he could fear the aforementioned god blessed it) so he'd have to have the home-owner's consent (and thus protection, he'd basically be counted equal to the family if he was a welcome guest- Radgost :-) )

As for garlic, I believe it's pure logic. Garlic is a powerful antibiotic, thus probably considered a holy (healing) veggie. But, by that logic, the flower perunika (Perun's plant) would also be powerful, as it was believed to grow from thunderstruck soil (Perun, god of thunder, was our prime deity)

I've never heard of ash being harmful to vampires :O do you know why is that perhaps?
Arithmomania is also pretty ridiculous, I believe the folk was just trying to invent a difficult/time-consuming task for somebody to do, and then said it protects them from vampires! Pffft! And they would throw grains on their rooftop so the vampire would have to do parkour to count it -.-

I've only found anything about Todor in Serbian, sadly. And also, much Wiki info about Slavic mythology is either wrong or not clear enough, like I've said, they erroneously identify screamers as vampires (screamers were ghosts of babies who died before being blessed/baptised and they would wander and cry in forests)
« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 02:40:08 AM by Valeera »
Know your own limit in the use of power. Releasing all out is 90% of the way to defeat.

Offline Rick Gentle

  • Gangrel Playboy
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 3057
Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #68 on: February 14, 2015, 01:11:54 AM »
The myth of the traveling god is a pretty common one. In Norse mythology, Odin supposedly did the same thing, and it even comes up in Native American myths (though usually all the hospitable hosts got was tricks played on them by Coyote or Iktomi the Spider-Man, and lots of pregnant daughters after those two left). The Greek gods did some traveling, though I don't think they had a formal system of reward/punishment for those they visited. Usually it was just about the sex.
Hospitality was an extremely important concept in ancient cultures, because if you didn't have somewhere to spend the night, and a warm meal to go with it, a traveler would probably die before they ever got to their destination. The Tzimisce still have a bunch of rules that govern hospitality and the treatment of guests; I'm guessing your new lineage would invent some similar rules. In relation to your lineage, perhaps these stories are the source of this vampiric lineage, or the stories came about because of this vampiric lineage spreading across the globe (though the Native Americans in the New World are a bit of a stretch).
Remember: It's not the size of your fangs that matters; it's what you stick them in.

Offline Valeera

  • Blackjack
  • Neonate
  • **
  • Posts: 81
  • Victory, not vengeance.
Re: The Origin Project (Free Vampire IP)
« Reply #69 on: February 14, 2015, 10:14:49 AM »
Indeed. And Tzimisce ARE one of my favourite clans! :) Along with Malkavians, and this Slavic mythology seems to be working for me, I'll have Carpathian meanies and madmen in one lineage xD

I think Dominate is a given for this lineage :) And Obfuscate, since the mythology says they are invisible.
One question, though, and please do not get me wrong, I'm not trying to be a smartass or disrespectful, I'm simply still rather inexperienced in the PnP VtM, but do you think Auspex is absolutely necessary as a Discipline (in the form and stretch it exists in WoD) or could we make it a level of some other Discipline; or an ability?
Our ST made it normal that all vampires have heightened senses (1st dot) and he'd either give us infrared goggles or binoculars so we'd know when we see a supernatural creature (2nd dot) and even before I had my 3rd dot, he would roll a percentage and if it came up above a certain number, he'd give me a random piece of information about an object I'd encounter.

So what I was thinking is keep some aspects of Auspex, but mix them with some spells into a new discipline, something like psychic magic.

They could have Todor omnipresent ("I am Death, I am everywhere, I am always") even if he cannot appear physically or act unless it's his week; in the area that is their domain, and their magic could be stronger in that area (but if somebody wanted to play this lineage in NY, for example, this could make them weaker) but they could communicate with him (something like the Madness Network) from anywhere, and they could be something like Reapers for him, he'd require a certain number of deeds done for him so they could advance in power.

As for physical appearance, Nigama, I forgot to reply to that: Todor was said to either have no face/his face is a void (headless horseman anybody?) or to have....and this part is WEIRD, a horse's BEHIND for a face. I must be interpreting this wrong!
But if he has "no face" we could say he has no face OF HIS OWN, making him able to disguise himself. Also, him and his horse both have a limp :)

What could make this lineage more flexible in terms of alignment (I would like to make them able to have a high Humanity/Morality score, because game mechanics :)) is that when they act as Reapers, it's not pure violence and madness. They could punish criminals, for example. Point is, Todor requires them to kill. They could still have honour and be justicars. Or since they can CAUSE disease, how about if they could curb it/understand it/cure it?

So basically, I want to make this lineage flexible enough that a player playing them could choose to be a monstrous Tzimisce-like vampire, or a paladin-like vampire, or a cleric-type, advisor-type... Of course, I still have to balance all of this out, so they're not Supermen of vampires, but I was toying with this idea.
Know your own limit in the use of power. Releasing all out is 90% of the way to defeat.