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Author Topic: Mechanics of the origin Project  (Read 2543 times)

Offline Radical21

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Mechanics of the origin Project
« on: May 24, 2014, 01:46:54 AM »
This topic is meant for a discussion about the creation of new game-mechanics for the Origin project.

So far topics to iron-out are:
  • Blood Lineage : How does a lineage works , from the Founder to making new vampires and what they inherit from the founder's lineage?
  • Blood-strengths : The various powers of the vampires (similar to disciplines in VTM)
  • Base character traits: In VTM I think we all seen traits that were either useless or somewhat duplicate, I'm kind of thinking of doing away with all that system of representation and instead having characters represent themselves by select distinctive traits/flaws that give/detract from various Blood-strengths . but this really depends on how we employ the Blood-strengths and how traditional we want the system to be.
  • Blood-entitlement?? =  " a combo of age, experience, and external factors such as drinking the blood of those who are older (maybe temp boost) and draining them dry ( similar to diablerie/amaranth for more permanent upgrades) " determines the power-level of the vampire's blood.
    Personally I think the age thing kind of limit us in the Blood lineage we can create : since then it says that older lineages are better.
  • Combat: How will combat look, do we have a rollfest? tactical map? social-combat? luck vs decision making? etc.
    I kind of lean towards combat that is more tactical or character-based with a minimum of luck factor.
     
  • base Vampire template: what define our vampires?  I'm thinking of going with the classic on this one although I'm open to change some stuff that didn't make sense in VTM if there are reasons to do so.
     
« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 08:52:59 PM by Radical21 »

Offline Rick Gentle

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Re: Mechanics of the origin Project
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2014, 08:27:15 PM »
Blood Lineage: We can do without generations, but I don't like how Blood Potency works in some ways, either. I like vampires getting more powerful as they grow older, but the Mist of Ages? No. Flat-out "No". Also, I don't think torpor should "dilute" a vampire's blood - it can starve them of blood, since their torpid body is still consuming it, and they can have a period of weakness following torpor during which they are more vulnerable (having been starved of blood for who-knows-how-long), but you should be able to recover from it more-or-less for "free". (I.e., drinking blood as you normally would gradually restores your powers based on how long you've been in torpor.)

Blood Strengths: I like all the base powers in VTM, but I'd prefer to have a more open way of selecting and advancing powers. Instead of a linear level system of 1-5, I'd like to have ALL the blood powers of a given type be available, and they are advanced individually.
For example, instead of Protean being
Eyes of the Beast > Feral Claws > Earth Meld > Shapeshift > Mist Form
where you have to purchase a dot in the prior power before you get the more advanced powers, I would prefer to see a new vampire have access to ALL powers from the beginning, but then they have to advance them individually. So a new Gangrel-analogue has ALL Protean powers, but they must then put one dot in Eyes of the Beast, two dots in Feral Claws, one dot in Earth Meld, three dots in Shapeshift, and no dots in Mist Form, etc.

Combat: I prefer a lot less luck, too. It should be a competition, not a double gamble. For melee combat, it can be more a contest of strength, but there IS an element of chance in ranged combat - wind factor, mere degrees of missing, sheer blind firing. For firearms, there's weapon spread and recoil and junk.
For my RPG, I've set it up so characters dedicate a certain portion of their strength/concentration/skill to an attack, which increases both their chances of successfully dealing damage, and the amount of damage they do if it's successful. In a few words, I've made critical hitting a self-selected action... but the trade-off is, for tha turn of combat, the characters other attacks are going to be under-powered, because they've sunk all their energy into that one big attack. They can have fewer stronger attacks, many weaker attacks, or any combination in between, up to their maximum skill/strength/concentration points.
As to weapons, I've made "attack speed" based on the size and wieldability of the weapon, instead of strength, dexterity, or some random factor of a percentage of something. So a knife can be stabbed a dozen times, whereas a greatsword can hit two or three times in the same space of time.
I need to playtest combat a lot more, but those are the basics.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 06:36:11 AM by Rick Gentle »
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Offline Radical21

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Re: Mechanics of the origin Project
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2014, 08:50:39 PM »
Blood Lineage: We can do without generations, but I don't like how Blood Potency works in some ways, either. I like vampires getting more powerful as they grow older, but the Mist of Ages? No. Flat-out "No". Also, I don't think torpor should "dilute" a vampire's blood - it can starve them of blood, since their torpid body is still consuming it, and they can have a period of weakness following torpor during which they are more vulnerable (having been starved of blood for who-knows-how-long), but you should be able to recover from it more-or-less for "free". (I.e., drinking blood as you normally would gradually restores your powers based on how long you've been in torpor.)

About Blood-Entitlement/power :I only said similar to blood potency in the sense that it is not really like Generation. ill edit that out to avoid confusion because I really don't think anyone cares for something like 'mist of the ages' (I forgot it exists until you mentioned it now).

I think that entering torpor/death-state shouldn't be something that doesn't have consequences, maybe like you suggest have a lengthy recovery period (2-3 sessions) during which the character is very weak until they drink a sum of blood equivalent to their Bloodcount to recover their body + blood points to recover  the strength of their abilities.

About Blood Strengths:  In some ways I like the unpredictable outcome of a more versatile approach like you suggest, however powers have hierarchy because not all of them are equally potent or as easy to master (it doesn't make much sense that someone who doesn't know how to shape-shift their hands into claws knows how to shape-shift their entire body to that of an animal that has said claws).
furthermore if you break each of these into a multi-rank ability you can spend dots on you end up with an even more convoluted system players would struggle to remember.
the only other viable option I see is where you declare your character has the ability Shapeshifting 4 and then apply these points to create various shapeshifting powers , which can take considerable amount of time to reasonably design and test to ensure balance.
Of course ill let Nigama make the final call on this one but in that department I really don't see  merit in finding a new way of doing things unless we really really have to.  (balance and design are more important than trying to be different).


« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 09:47:00 PM by Radical21 »

Offline Rick Gentle

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Re: Mechanics of the origin Project
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2014, 05:32:45 AM »
You can balance the powers so that each one of them is equally useful in different ways. You could also justify it by saying that "smaller" powers, like Feral Claws, require more concentration and finesse than larger, more general changes. For example, the Feral Claws gives you +damage, +attack speed (both hands), and +climbing, whereas Shapeshift gives you +movement speed, +attack damage, and +animal trait (nightvision, sense of smell, etc).

Conceptually, you can make it shinier than a list of names and dots on the character sheet (a simple design, but also plain). You can make it in a five-fold star-pattern, where each branch of the power extends outwards, giving bonuses on each labeled level along the way. It's certainly no more difficult than listing AAAAAAAALL the feats, powers, and miscellaneous changes you get in Dungeons and Dragons, or even Merits and Flaws in VTM. In Warhammer 40K Black Crusade, you have to list EVERY power/buff/skill advance/trait you buy or earn through play on one big long list, and it gets to be a true pain in the ass.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 06:34:43 AM by Rick Gentle »
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Offline Darkfury

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Re: Mechanics of the origin Project
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2014, 09:43:57 AM »
excuse me - but
Are you making a substitute system for WoD ?
I'm impressed.
Is this forum usually so robust or CCP caused havoc in WoD community cancelling MMO ? 

or is it just a Vampire game ?

Anyway - (IP - newer heard of this therm -sorry )

Well as far as i scrolled my eye balls on your project it seems to be nicely researched so far.
I dont't know how far are You in this project but - still the basics are missing if i can pointed out.
Mythology - is part of basic - but core, is something special for every good game. 
Are there any conflicts between those goods ? Any philosophy approach for the theme.
WoD was about inner beast fight, Warhammer about  good vs evil, etc.

I would not worry about dice system as you can easilly develop some.
But first set the core conflict. Core will help you see the possible approach for Skills and Characteristics.

Anyway apart from this - this so called intellectual property therm sucks.

Offline Radical21

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Re: Mechanics of the origin Project
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2014, 01:08:42 PM »
excuse me - but
Are you making a substitute system for WoD ?
I'm impressed.
Is this forum usually so robust or CCP caused havoc in WoD community cancelling MMO ? 

or is it just a Vampire game ?

Anyway - (IP - newer heard of this therm -sorry )

Well as far as i scrolled my eye balls on your project it seems to be nicely researched so far.
I dont't know how far are You in this project but - still the basics are missing if i can pointed out.
Mythology - is part of basic - but core, is something special for every good game. 
Are there any conflicts between those goods ? Any philosophy approach for the theme.
WoD was about inner beast fight, Warhammer about  good vs evil, etc.

I would not worry about dice system as you can easilly develop some.
But first set the core conflict. Core will help you see the possible approach for Skills and Characteristics.

Anyway apart from this - this so called intellectual property therm sucks.

I think this : https://forums.planetvampire.com/?topic=6445.0 should answer most of your questions.

IP = intellectual property.

For now its only 2.5 people making this so we are still figuring out the basics, working independently  on different parts and offering feedback to one another, eventually we will find a way to sew it all into something more cohesive, attempting to figure out the mechanics is part of that and Nigama and I corroponded about this in parts via PMs .

About Core: I think more than anything the game is about morality/life/death and the different perspectives of it contrasted against the inner nature of everyone.. that is in the heart of any myth/god of any culture and it is something that is challenged even in modern times when globalization becomes like a second red apple that humanity bites from.

Offtopic : From my perspective I wouldn't say WoD is about the inner beast fight because the ending White-wolf envisioned for it has little to do with the beast and in most stories I was a player in the beast is usually either ignored or shoved to the background due to Storytellers desire to avoid the feeding part(unfortunately), of course it is one of the themes but like I already said,  VTM doesn't have one idea it is based on, it has a multitude of themes that are associated with vampires.

I'm going to ignore the last comment mostly because I don't know what you mean by that.
.
You can balance the powers so that each one of them is equally useful in different ways. You could also justify it by saying that "smaller" powers, like Feral Claws, require more concentration and finesse than larger, more general changes. For example, the Feral Claws gives you +damage, +attack speed (both hands), and +climbing, whereas Shapeshift gives you +movement speed, +attack damage, and +animal trait (nightvision, sense of smell, etc).


Yeah that might work also but ill wait to see what Nigama says  , I'm fine with either way but I don't want to be the one who decided about it.
I think in the example you bring it doesn't make sense that Feral Claws has more attack speed(because beasts are generally faster than humaniods and have 4 limbs) but it could probably require less energy and allow to keep human form(which allows interaction with objects/people).

If we go that way then we need to have a rule to keep all powers balanced against one another in terms of cost and effect which sounds easy but it really isn't( when you consider that so many Storytellers prefer to have a lax attitude towards handling BP and WP so they can concentrate on the story)

Either way don't take bad systems as an example because if what they design is lazy and bad it doesn't mean we should adopt what they do.

About Combat System:
  • location: I propose combat to be made on a Tactical map/Grid. Pros: it adds the location and movement speed dimensions to combat aside from damage and attackspeed which would result in more interesting combat. Cons: not all mediums allow for tactical maps(this forum is one example) and not all players like it.
  • turn: for managing turns I think a system of Action points (AP) per turn to handle both movements and actions where the player can choose how to spend the AP they have
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 04:26:29 PM by Radical21 »

Offline Rick Gentle

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Re: Mechanics of the origin Project
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2014, 08:30:08 PM »
We should have more than 3 people, but we're the only ones who seem interested in working on it so far. I can understand how a lot of the modders don't have time, and maybe people are happy with the World of Darkness rules/games. Speaking for myself, I've been working on my RPG off-and-on for years now, and it's great to finally be able to put parts of it into practice and to the test.
At this point, I can focus equally on lore or mechanics; one will help the other. Defining what a vampire is (lore) can help guide the mechanics (Vampires can do this, but not this); having a mechanic set can influence the lore and setting (if vampires can only drink blood at X points/minute, then this influences in what manner and how often they feed. Does a given vampire/vampire clan have to drink more slowly? Then they can draw out the experience in a seductive/sexy/painful/tortuous manner. Etc.)

----------------

I played on a tactical map with Gamma World, and I think it detracts from the storytelling part of the game. If the DM/GM/Storyteller can just tell the players "Look at the map!", it generally means there's less description and less attention paid to the details. Unless the DM/GM/Storyteller wants to create their own maps for every major space in the game, then they would have to rely on pre-packaged campaigns/storylines that come with their own maps.
If we don't go with the maps, then we don't need to worry about movement points as such. Sure, foot speed, vehicle speed, and attack range and things matter heavily, but I think we can find a compromise between VTM's "If you have Athletics 3, you run faster than someone with Athletics 2" and a fixed number of squares.

Working off the Action Points idea, if we impose a maximum limit on the number of things a character can do in a turn, then they can choose to spend those as movement, attacking, or something else (hacking, spellcasting, picking one's nose). So, if a turn is five seconds long, they can execute up to 5 actions - one for movement, two for attacking, one for spellcasting, and one for picking one's nose. We just have to determine how much "one movement point" is worth.
And naturally, I have ideas about that.  :cometome: Generally, the larger a creature is, the faster it can move (i.e., it can cover more distance in the same space of time), so I think we should make "one movement point" worth one bodylength of the creature moving, or a multiple thereof for magical or creatures moving at a faster speed.
For example: One average-height (bodylength) human = 5-6 feet. (Let's call it 5 just for simplicity.)
1 walking movement point =1 bodylength/point OR 5 feet/point
1 jogging movement point = 2 bodylengths/point OR 10 feet/point
1 sprinting movement point = 3 bodylengths/point OR 15 feet/point

This is a system that is adaptable for a given creature - a gnome, being smaller, doesn't move as quickly on shorter legs. Alternately, a dragon, being much larger, moves a much longer distance for the same movement point expenditure (having a longer bodylength). Exactly how far a given creature can move depends on the creature. This way, DMs/GMs/Storytellers can be as general ("The mortal is... two bodylengths away from you/two movement points' worth") or as specific ("The mortal is fifteen feet away from you, which is three movement points walking, or one sprinting") as they want. Of course, in a modern-day vampire setting, this really only applies if a character is a dwarf/midget ("Short" Flaw), or a giant/basketball player ("Tall" Merit). Otherwise, we can make it standard for all intents and purposes.
Naturally, there will be advantages and penalties to each kind of movement point. Walking lets you maintain accuracy, but gets you there slower. Sprinting has less accuracy, but gets you there faster. Natch.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 08:51:51 PM by Rick Gentle »
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Offline Radical21

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Re: Mechanics of the origin Project
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2014, 09:06:59 PM »
I played on a tactical map with Gamma World, and I think it detracts from the storytelling part of the game. If the DM/GM/Storyteller can just tell the players "Look at the map!", it generally means there's less description and less attention paid to the details. Unless the DM/GM/Storyteller wants to create their own maps for every major space in the game, then you have to rely on pre-packaged campaigns/storylines that come with their own maps.
If we don't go with the maps, then we don't need to worry about movement points as such. Sure, foot speed, vehicle speed, and attack range and things matter heavily, but I think we can find a compromise between VTM's "If you have Athletics 3, you run faster than someone with Athletics 2" and a fixed number of squares.

How can we represent movement without a map while keeping track of how far characters are from one another?
I mean, a character can have movement speed or athletics but how do you see this practically playing out or affecting the combat? if someone moves 1 movement point how do you know how far is he from everyone else on the scene or what direction is he facing?

I think its easier to ask a GM to draw a map for a combat scene and describe attacks or the scene than it is to ask players to do trigonometry every turn?
You don't need a prefab map for every scene, you just need a description of every scene and to be able to quickly draw a grid and make sure that the elements from the scene description are represented on it(therefore the GM does need to convey a description).
Lets say that we have a scene of a ballroom with the major objects being a Large piano, some potted plants, and big windows with draping : if combat errupts in that scene we can make it so the GM would have to describe these usual objects and how the player interacts with these(i.e climbing on the piano, lifting the plants, jumping through the window etc)  I don't think its any less detailed than without a map.


The map is more about location and recording of movement and less about replacing descriptions
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 09:10:50 PM by Radical21 »

Offline Nigama

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Re: Mechanics of the origin Project
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2014, 03:00:41 AM »
Apologies for my late coming to this thread.  I had a 10 hour work day on Sat and Sun, and then we're opening a new tutorial location so I had to go and see that today.  Anyway, every night I log in and read this thread and think "I'll sleep on it and post tomorrow" but tomorrow never comes because I've been so busy.  So, that said...

Let me not try and answer everything point by point, but instead say, why don't we try creating a tiered system like Rick suggested and see how they turn out?  We could each pick a power from one of our lineages that's relatively unique and flesh it out over say a 6 point scale.  If one of us comes back with something that seems workable, maybe we can apply it to the others.  If no one comes back with anything workable, maybe we just scrap it.

I'm gonna just kick back, relax, and have a drink tonight.  But I'll try to put up a longer post tomorrow morning before things get a lil more hectic for me.

Nigama
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 06:21:46 AM by Nigama »
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Offline Radical21

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Re: Mechanics of the origin Project
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2014, 03:05:48 AM »
Creating Powers process

Description : Each Lineage can create Blood-Powers  based on their 6-7 Blood-Strengths: the Power can only affect the aspects listed in Blood-Strengths for the Character’s Lineage.  Each Power is made using development-points that are used to buy the  advantages or disadvantages of the power, the higher the Blood-Entitlement-Rank of a Vampire-Character, the more Advantages/Disadvantages they can have in their Powers and the more freebie DP they will get for creating the power.
Each Power must balance its advantages with disadvantages;
A list of canon powers will be created for each Lineage but past that it is up to storytellers to approve player created powers..

Step by step process
  • Think of the concept and how it works
  • Choose advantages that lets the power do what you want it to do.
  • Balance the advantages by choosing disadvantages so the sum of dp for the power is 0+
  • List the power, its activation requirements and costs ,its short description/concept and finally how it affects the game mechanics
  • Ask for the Storyteller/GM to approve your power for use in the settings
  • Accept changes the Storyteller/GM may ask you to make.
  • Submit the final listing of the Blood-power for all players to see and understand.

I thought of tie in a Blood-entitlement mechanics so that a hierarchy of powers can be made but ill edit that in later if desired..


Power creation Advantages/Disadvantages:
(dp= development points)

List of Advantages*:
  • Grants temporary increase to stat (-1 dp)
  • Supernatural Interaction with Objects/Entities (-1 dp)
  • Creates/summon an Entity (-2 dp)
  • Range of power +1Grid Unit** (-1dp)
  • Damage : the power inflicts 1 damage-point , lethal by default (-1dp)
  • Damage-type:  the damage type the power inflicts become special(-1dp)
  • Change to Character (-1dp)
  • Grant Extra Action (-2dp)

List of Disadvantages/drawbacks*:
  • BP Cost: 1 Blood--point (1 dp)
  • WP Cost 1 Willpower-point(1dp)
  • stat reduction: causes decrease in stat related to the scene-type the power is to be used in (1dp)
  • Unconcealable use(1 dp)**
  • Limit: Can only be used 1 time per night or Under special conditions  (1 dp)
  • Can be Disabled/Prevented by other characters from activating in some way(1 dp)
  • Double-Edged: The use of the power can backfire in a significant way(1 dp)
  • Time-Delayed activation: 3 turns (1dp)
  • Curruption: repeated use of the power gradually changes the character for the worse(1dp)
*Some of these can be purchased several times for increased effect (subject to BloodEntitlement-Rank and Storyteller’s approval)
**Available in Powers that are not combat-based only.


Example powers:
As proof that this system works for balanced gameplay I've tried to create powers that mirrors Vtm's Protean discipline  at entry level(balanced Advantages and Disadvanges costs) , if all of these powers can probably be recreated slightly different in more powerful or extensive variants using this system by changing the DP cost rules.
 
Feral Sight
  • Requirement: spend 1bp.
  • Description: turns the vampire eyes in red glowing beast-like eyes that can see in the dark.
  • Advantages(-2dp):
    Change to character  : Transform the characters eyes to allow the character to see in the dark (-1dp)
     Adds to intimidation(-1dp)
  • Drawbacks(2dp) :
    costs 1bp (1dp) ,
    reduce social stat (1dp)
     

Claws of Nature
  • Requirement: spend 1bp.
  • Description: Transform the character’s hands into claws that can inflict supernatural damage.
  • Advantages: Change to character  : Transform the characters hands to inflict supernatural damage in unarmed combat.(-1dp)
  • Drawbacks : costs 1bp  (1dp).
Burial Earth
Requirement: spend 1bp.
Description: the character becomes immobile and sinks into the earth for protection and concealment
Advantages(-2dp): Interaction:: charcater is placed into the earth (-1dp) , Change to character (-1dp): character can’t be harmed:
Drawbacks(2dp ): costs 1bp  (1dp). Can be disabled (1dp):if the earth is disturbed

Beast Form
Requirement: spend 1bp.
Description: the character turns into an animal and gain its traits.
Advantages(-2dp): Change to character (-1dp): the character’s body transforms into an animal
 Change to character (-1dp) : The character gain ability associated with the animal
Drawbacks(2dp ):
costs 1bp  (1dp),
double-edged(1dp) : unable to talk aside from animal-languages + cannot use most items..

Mist Form.
Requirement: spend 1bp.
Description: the character turns into intangible mist that can travel nearly anywhere
Advantages(-2dp): Change to character (-1dp): the character’s body transforms into mist
 Change to character (-1dp) : The character is invlunrable to physical attacks.
Drawbacks(2dp ): costs 1bp  (1dp). double-edged: The character can’t interact physically with anything (1dp)
« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 09:06:00 PM by Radical21 »

Offline Nigama

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Re: Mechanics of the origin Project
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2014, 04:01:55 AM »
I'm still struggling with my ideas.

I picked Healing and decided to do it two ways.  The first way is more like Rick suggested.  I've created 6 tiers instead of 5, then brainstormed all of the healing ideas I could, both from WoD, elsewhere and also what I thought would just be fun/cool.  I'm having a difficult time ordering them, tho.

Although it was certainly different from discipline to discipline, I feel like there was a clear template such as:  Rank 1: Light power, Rank 2: Minor harm, Rank 3: Med Power, Rank 4: Agg harm, Rank 5: supremely cool power.  Obviously this doesn't hold true for every discipline but I was trying to create something similar with my 6 ranks.

Also, I decided, for kicks, why not make another version of Healing, but more modular... a sortof build your own, like with Mokole dragon forms or Demon forms (from Demon: the Fallen).  I always enjoyed those modular forms of creating forms/powers for my characters so I thought I'd give it a go.  That's actually going a lil more smoothly because it's easier to classify powers by weak/med/strong/very strong.

Anyway, interesting to read your post above.  I'm gonna keep tossing my ideas around this weekend while I have lots of work and will try to make a post by Monday, and then get back over to work on the Lineages which I've kindof left hanging.


Nigama
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 04:04:07 AM by Nigama »
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Offline Radical21

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Re: Mechanics of the origin Project
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2014, 09:35:25 PM »
I'm still struggling with my ideas.

I picked Healing and decided to do it two ways.  The first way is more like Rick suggested.  I've created 6 tiers instead of 5, then brainstormed all of the healing ideas I could, both from WoD, elsewhere and also what I thought would just be fun/cool.  I'm having a difficult time ordering them, tho.

Although it was certainly different from discipline to discipline, I feel like there was a clear template such as:  Rank 1: Light power, Rank 2: Minor harm, Rank 3: Med Power, Rank 4: Agg harm, Rank 5: supremely cool power.  Obviously this doesn't hold true for every discipline but I was trying to create something similar with my 6 ranks.

Also, I decided, for kicks, why not make another version of Healing, but more modular... a sortof build your own, like with Mokole dragon forms or Demon forms (from Demon: the Fallen).  I always enjoyed those modular forms of creating forms/powers for my characters so I thought I'd give it a go.  That's actually going a lil more smoothly because it's easier to classify powers by weak/med/strong/very strong.

Anyway, interesting to read your post above.  I'm gonna keep tossing my ideas around this weekend while I have lots of work and will try to make a post by Monday, and then get back over to work on the Lineages which I've kindof left hanging.


Nigama

I've updated my post above so its more readable , my goal was to create common guidelines for power creation to balance powers against one another  (which is something White-wolf failed to do throughout all of OWoD.) 

I got a different impression from Rick's posts(he doesn't like White-wolf's hierarchy of powers for some reason) but If you want to add Hierarchy to that Power creation system it can be done easily by giving more DP or limits  so that some powers are created more potent than others. 

If either of you want to make a different system that ensure balance , great , but please test that it actually produces results that work, because unlike White-Wolf I'm less keen on creating random Disciplines and then futily trying to balance them on a case-by-case basis after the fact.
If I learned anything from White-wolf's games is that over-complex rules  and systems get overlooked of ignored because players find these too time-consuming or tedious.

I will go back to writing Lineages for now.  for the rest: combat systems etc, come to think of it we can always offer more than one way so Storytellers can work with either Grid-based Tactical or Dice-based Descriptive according to what they feel more comfortable with so it seems less important.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 10:49:03 PM by Radical21 »

Offline Rick Gentle

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Re: Mechanics of the origin Project
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2014, 10:52:15 PM »
For vampiric powers, it would please me greatly if we could avoid the following: the obscure, the sorcerous, and the flashy. This excludes vampiric powers along the vein of Obtenebration, Dementation, Bardo, Ogham, Obeah, advanced levels of Potence, excessive Necromancy, Chimerstry, Quietus, and of course Thaumaturgy. Especially whole branches of vampiric powers like Thaumaturgy. If you don't recognize a couple of those names, that kind of helps my point.

The reason why I dislike Thaumaturgy is because it's magic for vampires; there's no reason why it should exist besides to make Clan Tremere special. If we include blood sorceries in our RPG, then it has to grow directly out of the traditions of the various lineages. For example, blood sacrifice and chopping up body parts magically works well for Aztec and Mayan vampires, but throwing around fireballs and telekinesis don't work. Rune magic and painting symbols in blood might work for Nordic vampires. Egyptian vampires might be somewhat like Setites, but I never understood the whole obsession with snakes in particular, especially seeing as Set(h) in myth doesn't appear to have any relationship with snakes. (The "typhon" animal looks more like an ant eater.)

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For healing... guess what, I have another idea! In my RPG, I've broken up the body into distinct parts, much like we see in the Warhammer 40K RPGs or the latter Fallout games. There are the torso, head, arms, and legs. It would please me greatly if we could have a healing system much like Fallout, where you spend a blood point to heal a given limb that's crippled or injured, like using a medkit. Overall, this would cost a lot more blood than we see in VTM or VTR, at least for bashing-level damage. Instead of 1 BP = 1 Health Level, it would be 1 BP = 1 limb/bodypart, and the character would have to heal them individual, instead of categorically like with Health Levels.
Remember: It's not the size of your fangs that matters; it's what you stick them in.