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Author Topic: Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition  (Read 1484 times)

Offline El_Gostro

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2019, 11:33:26 PM »
Does it make the vampire speak with a Transylvanian accent and/or vulnerable to counting challenges?


Wait a minute...

A twilight Buffy lawful good super powered paladin published by Archie comics and a counting impaired Transylvanian rave undead creature is an awesome story waiting to be told.

To the pen-Mobile!!!!

Offline Gringo Starr

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2019, 12:41:16 AM »
Thanks Deicide, you answered one of my questions. Before I wasn't certain, but from now V5 won't be on my shopping list, that's for sure. I'll stick to V20. VtM: Twilight is the last thing I need.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 12:43:34 AM by Gringo Starr »
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Offline Radical21

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2019, 11:20:40 PM »
You guys are so petty, if you don't like something you can leave it out.

Besides , do you even know how near impossible it is for a vampire to remain above 7 humanity?

Offline deicide

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2019, 11:11:19 AM »
This depends from a Storyteller in question.
The patient was a young lady whom I was loath to disfigure (c)

Offline Ghanima_Atreides

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2019, 11:30:25 AM »
What I don't like about it is the way your supernatural curse is trumped by how "nice" or "moral" you are; nevermind that your body is clinically dead and your digestive system has atrophied, if you're nice enough you can digest food. You're dead so the instinct to reproduce is moot? Nah, being nice allows you to enjoy sex with mortals. And so on. It made sense that your sense of morality and restraint made it easier for you to rein in your feral impulses, but it didn't affect the fact that you were, for all intents and purposes, dead.
What I liked about Vampire in the previous editions was the whole existential horror aspect (with all it involved - inability to eat, inability to be intimate the way you're used to); sure some vampires simply discarded all that and embraced their new condition but personally I had a lot of fun roleplaying those that had trouble letting go, and yes they usually had a high humanity score. That's the thing however, despite their best intentions, the very real Beast within denied them any possibility of continuing life as they had before, and attempts to do so usually ended badly.
You might ask why I'm attempting to apply logic to a fictional setting, where anything is possible, well...it had a certain internal logic, and that made it seem more plausible and immersive to me.
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Offline Radical21

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2019, 01:12:06 PM »
What I don't like about it is the way your supernatural curse is trumped by how "nice" or "moral" you are; nevermind that your body is clinically dead and your digestive system has atrophied, if you're nice enough you can digest food. You're dead so the instinct to reproduce is moot? Nah, being nice allows you to enjoy sex with mortals. And so on. It made sense that your sense of morality and restraint made it easier for you to rein in your feral impulses, but it didn't affect the fact that you were, for all intents and purposes, dead.
What I liked about Vampire in the previous editions was the whole existential horror aspect (with all it involved - inability to eat, inability to be intimate the way you're used to); sure some vampires simply discarded all that and embraced their new condition but personally I had a lot of fun roleplaying those that had trouble letting go, and yes they usually had a high humanity score. That's the thing however, despite their best intentions, the very real Beast within denied them any possibility of continuing life as they had before, and attempts to do so usually ended badly.
You might ask why I'm attempting to apply logic to a fictional setting, where anything is possible, well...it had a certain internal logic, and that made it seem more plausible and immersive to me.

You attempt flawed logic here , being "nice" as you say, its not easy and there are constantly things working against you, each use of the power takes blood , threatens to draw out the beast. Since situations constantly challenges Vampires, be they Cainite or Kindred, to abandon the moral path in favour of survival  , the horrors of their existence are never left far behind. 
After all, the origin of hatred is trying to protect something one wishes to keep.

 Btw previous editions had the exact same thing about Humanity : you could take a merit that let you eat food, blush of life etc as well as high humanity perks.

Offline El_Gostro

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2019, 01:51:10 PM »
its been a long while since last my appendixes viced a sheet from a WOD book.
But werent those perks sort of illusory measures to give the appereance of life when neccesary as they costed bloodpoints?


Ultimately it is up to the those who weave and participate in the story but it feels like an unneccesary addendum to impose certain preferences or winks that are largely irrelevant to the great scheme of things....


Then again...
The twilight Buffy lawful good super powered paladin in the style of late 90's Archie comics will be the best epic chronicle since the great european stop sign etymological war of  the 20th century!!!!!

Offline Ghanima_Atreides

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2019, 03:24:17 PM »

You attempt flawed logic here , being "nice" as you say, its not easy and there are constantly things working against you, each use of the power takes blood , threatens to draw out the beast. Since situations constantly challenges Vampires, be they Cainite or Kindred, to abandon the moral path in favour of survival  , the horrors of their existence are never left far behind. 
After all, the origin of hatred is trying to protect something one wishes to keep.

 Btw previous editions had the exact same thing about Humanity : you could take a merit that let you eat food, blush of life etc as well as high humanity perks.

I don't think I am attempting flawed logic, because it's not about how easy or difficult it is to maintain high Humanity, it's the whole idea that your curse keeps track of your nice points and makes you appear and feel more or less like a corpse according to it. Just because one vampire is more moral and less bloodthirsty than another shouldn't change the fact that they're both dead and mortal pleasures are forever denied to them.

its been a long while since last my appendixes viced a sheet from a WOD book.
But werent those perks sort of illusory measures to give the appereance of life when neccesary as they costed bloodpoints?


Ultimately it is up to the those who weave and participate in the story but it feels like an unneccesary addendum to impose certain preferences or winks that are largely irrelevant to the great scheme of things....



Exactly. You could fake the appearance of humanity with certain perks, such as Eat Food, which allowed you to keep food down for a longer period of time than usual - but you'd still have to throw it up later, because you were, y'know, dead, and couldn't digest it. Or you could spend blood to make yourself appear warm and alive if you want to seduce a mortal, and even fake sex, but it was only a sham, and you certainly didn't get anything out of it.

In my opinion, they made this change at least partly in order to please certain fans who simply couldn't resist introducing sex into their Vampire RP. Even before, the whole "they are dead, sex means nothing to them" rule was being ignored quite rampantly, I have seen it in games I took part in, so perhaps they simply bowed to the inevitable. Hell, even Bloodlines had instances where it conveniently "forgot" this rule.
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Offline El_Gostro

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2019, 03:50:53 PM »
Hell, even Bloodlines had instances where it conveniently "forgot" this rule.

I like to think,specially with the fade to black and the awkward sex sounds that it was the two undeadies being silly and trying to uncomfortably pretend and get the act going though it was clearly not working :pixorstfu:
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Offline Radical21

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2019, 06:30:49 PM »

Just because one vampire is more moral and less bloodthirsty than another shouldn't change the fact that they're both dead and mortal pleasures are forever denied to them.

I think you've missed the entire point of humanity then.  Also Vampires could always enjoy sex, also in third edition, it was just that it was less enjoyable than the elixir and thus became something they are usually indifferent to.
Best way I can explain this is that it is akin to Sensory Adaptation :  Once a nerve cell feels a greater stimulation it adapts , becoming less sensitive to lesser stimulation, kind of like how junkies don't really care about other  sources of pleasure aside from their drug, because nothing compares.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 06:34:40 PM by Radical21 »

Offline Ghanima_Atreides

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2019, 07:03:30 PM »

Just because one vampire is more moral and less bloodthirsty than another shouldn't change the fact that they're both dead and mortal pleasures are forever denied to them.

I think you've missed the entire point of humanity then.  Also Vampires could always enjoy sex, also in third edition, it was just that it was less enjoyable than the elixir and thus became something they are usually indifferent to.
Best way I can explain this is that it is akin to Sensory Adaptation :  Once a nerve cell feels a greater stimulation it adapts , becoming less sensitive to lesser stimulation, kind of like how junkies don't really care about other  sources of pleasure aside from their drug, because nothing compares.

We must have played according to different interpretations of the lore then, because this was never the case in my games. Vampires were dead, corpses; to put it bluntly, male vampires could only get erections by spending blood points and it was only for show. Some Storytellers even went as far as to describe the experience of kissing a vampire (who hasn't used any supernatural tricks to deceive a mortal) like that of kissing a corpse: cold, dry and/or bloody. Not a pleasant experience by any means.

As for humanity, it was used as a measure of how well the vampire in question could resist the Beast and remember such human concepts as compassion, affection, altruism, it didn't directly affect their undead biology.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 09:05:19 PM by Ghanima_Atreides »
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Offline Barabbah

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2019, 07:32:38 PM »
I thought you can eat food and drink without your fangs, simply it didn't had any effects on the vampirism aspects.... I should really find someone to do a pen n' paper game
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Offline Radical21

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2019, 10:48:55 PM »

We must have played according to different interpretations of the lore then, because this was never the case in my games. Vampires were dead, corpses; to put it bluntly, male vampires could only get erections by spending blood points and it was only for show. Some Storytellers even went as far as to describe the experience of kissing a vampire (who hasn't used any supernatural tricks to deceive a mortal) like that of kissing a corpse: cold, dry and/or bloody. Not a pleasant experience by any means.

As for humanity, it was used as a measure of how well the vampire in question could resist the Beast and remember such human concepts as compassion, affection, altruism, it didn't directly affect their undead biology.

Yeah they need to spend a blood point, I don't see how that contradicts anything, its kind of like how they need to spend a blood point to move their blood to simulate the blush of life, but once they do , the function is the same as when they were alive because blood flows through the tissue. 
The closer the Vampire is to when they were a mortal the easier it is for them to simulate that experience : for example coughing or breathing even though vampires do not really need to breath save than to inhale molecules that bind with receptors at their nose in order to smell.

Humanity basically means that a Vampire is closer to the mortal they once were, they avoid feeding so they are able to "forget" the pleasure of the kiss and their senses are not as dull,  their body instinctively moves the blood as when they were still alive and simulates metabolism because their memory of being human is more vivid.
Of course this only when Humanity is at an excess above the standard 7, which is very unusual.   
 
So yes there is an effect on biology just as much a low humanity causes a Vampire to look more like the dead thing that they are and instill horror in ones who meet them,  that too was in 3rd edition lore.


----------------------------------------

As a side note I will also add that many VTM storytellers tend to exaggerate the macabre  beyond what is written in the lore for the sake of creating a horrid experience.
The Vampire in your example could have simply been on humanity 5-3 ,  it doesn't require special tricks, in that state a Vampire's body is indeed much closer to a dead thing : their skin is more pale, they feel colder, their eyes may be more dead, maybe even the smell of decay etc.

But it may as well have been your storyteller trying to emphasis that the experience of kissing that vampire felt really off.


I thought you can eat food and drink without your fangs, simply it didn't had any effects on the vampirism aspects.... I should really find someone to do a pen n' paper game

Ordinarily Vampires do not have functioning metabolism , also part of the curse

יא וְעַתָּה אָרוּר אָתָּה מִן-הָאֲדָמָה אֲשֶׁר פָּצְתָה אֶת-פִּיהָ לָקַחַת אֶת-דְּמֵי אָחִיךָ מִיָּדֶךָ. יב כִּי תַעֲבֹד אֶת-הָאֲדָמָה לֹא-תֹסֵף תֵּת-כֹּחָהּ לָךְ נָע וָנָד תִּהְיֶה בָאָרֶץ.

meaning that no matter how much Caine worked the earth, it would not give him strength (sustenance ) and he would have to travel the earth.

In VTM some Vampires, especially Thin Bloods , can overcome that part of the curse.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 11:06:35 PM by Radical21 »

Offline deicide

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2019, 12:51:43 AM »
I like to think,specially with the fade to black and the awkward sex sounds that it was the two undeadies being silly and trying to uncomfortably pretend and get the act going though it was clearly not working :pixorstfu:
Quote from: Jeanette
Oh... How boring...
The VtM rule was followed to the letter.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 12:56:01 AM by deicide »
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Offline Radical21

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2019, 02:43:03 AM »
I like to think,specially with the fade to black and the awkward sex sounds that it was the two undeadies being silly and trying to uncomfortably pretend and get the act going though it was clearly not working :pixorstfu:
Quote from: Jeanette
Oh... How boring...
The VtM rule was followed to the letter.

its not a hard rule , its just my own interpretation .  Some people still feel that VTMB was divergent from canon in that regard