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Offline The Shadow Man

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-I posted this on Onyx Path forums but jeez them lot are no fun, they take everything too seriously. I even said it was just for fun too-

Just as a random thought experiment, as a bit of fun. What do you think another creature might be like transformed into Clan of Vampires, kind of like how the Tremere started as Mages. This can either be based on a specific group of these creatures (like the Tremere) or simply a generic conversion. Of course there are elements of this already with Fae-blooded Vampires and whatnot. I'll give an example, please forgive how bad I'm sure it is given how much I don't know a lot about the gamelines beyond VtM, feel free to clean up my effort. I went for a reversal of the Kiasyd bloodline in a few regards though not entirly, I've also taken inspiration from Baobhan sith; a female blood drinking fairy from Scottish mythology.

Bahan
Disciplines: Obsfucate, Protean and Mytherceria
Clan Weakness: Iron may cause them to frenzy, especially iron horse shoes
Sect: Independent
Antideluvian: Bahanna
Nicknames: Ivory Highlanders
This Clan spend most of their nights hunting Fae and looking for Changelings for them to turn into Ghouls. The Clan feel that the Fae have prosecuted them and that they must 'protect' people from them i.e. Changelings. The Clan embracing Changelings is far from uncommon but the Vitae of the Clan is partially Faerian so even non-Changelings who are embraced may take up its affects just the same as a Changeling would. The Clan despite being associated with the Scotland Highland, it is spread quiet thin, seperating up into small groups across the world known as Motleys, though the head of the Clan is based in Scotland though rarely uses their authority. They are quiet the hypocrites getting annoyed when others mistreat Changelings but are blind to it when the Clan does it. The main body of the Clan say that Cain punished Bahanna with his curse of Iron due to her keeping from him that she was a Changeling despite him asking her if she was when he became suspicious, as such they do not hide from the fact of their Fae connection from anyone. They commonly feed by disguising themselves as beautiful people and luring travelers into secluded locations, to drink in privacy. In Modern Nights this has evolved into taking strangers home from nightclubs or other such locations, in many places but the principle is the same.

Bahan Antiribu
Sect: Sabbat
Nicknames: Barbaric Butterflies
A fraction of the Clan have fallen to Sabbat propaganda and claim that their Antideluvian is covorting with the Fae to speed up the start of Gehenna. Bahan Anitribu claim that their founder rather than being punished for being a Changeling was punished for making deals with the Fae behind Cain's back.

Offline WhiteRussian

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Re: Random thought experiment - other creatures becoming Vampire Clan
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2017, 02:09:38 AM »
-I posted this on Onyx Path forums but jeez them lot are no fun, they take everything too seriously. I even said it was just for fun too-

One of the reasons I don't post there. There are a few nice members there, but many of them are crybabies and/or know-it-alls. And the type of moderation there doesn't help.
If you love something let it go. If it doesn't return, hunt it down and kill it.

Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Random thought experiment - other creatures becoming Vampire Clan
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2017, 07:31:32 AM »
I hope that I'm on the right track with this, feel free to tell me if not, I will delete the post. I am taking the succubae as basis for this clan that rivals the Toreador in the art of seduction and Ravnos in the art of illusion.

Skyra

Disciplines: Presence, Dominate and Chimerstry.
Clan weakness: illumination that could reveal their true horrific forms. This fear can induce terror during the embrace.
Sect: Independent
Antideluvian: Skyria
Nickname: Sweet Death

This clan that owes no allegiance is relatively small in number, due the difficulty of embrace that often ends in failure. However, what they lack in the numerical aspect is compensated by the sheer ferocity of their abilities and almost every member of this clan is female (like Daughters of Cacophony). Members of the "Sweet Death" usually spend their nights in completely dark rooms or clubs that offer the similar density of darkness for them to sustain their deceptive forms, but the last few generations have attained a whole new level of control over their visage: though still being able to be perceived by others in their true horrific form (fiery red skin, poignant horns, long tails and razor-sharp claws) a degree of resistance has been afforded by having their physical elements altered like the Gangrel red eyes or excessive hair: young Skyra clan members have pitch-black long hair by definition, glowing red eyes that they reduce in intensity by wearing contacts and reddish skin. They had several clashes with the Toreador, but in the modern nights they are shunning away from conflict to keep their numbers that are finally stabilizing. Though having dark roots themselves, the members of "Sweet Death" are a humane clan, that often laments their own existence because every (close) contact results in dread for the other side, reminding the seductive women of the clan to "keep their distance".

Skyra antitribu

There are no records of any sister joining the Sabbat, though some rumors exist. The devastating mood swings they experience are so severe in their character that excessive violence could seriously destroy the confidence of the Skyra clan member.
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Offline The Shadow Man

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Re: Random thought experiment - other creatures becoming Vampire Clan
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2017, 06:01:55 PM »
I hope that I'm on the right track with this, feel free to tell me if not, I will delete the post. I am taking the succubae as basis for this clan that rivals the Toreador in the art of seduction and Ravnos in the art of illusion.
Interesting idea, I'd say it qualifies sure. It's just fun as I said so its nothing to serious.

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Skyra
Antideluvian: Skyria
Interesting might I ask where these names came from?

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Clan weakness: illumination that could reveal their true horrific forms. This fear can induce terror during the embrace.
What sort of illumination? Like simple lights or what?

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almost every member of this clan is female (like Daughters of Cacophony).
I'll be honest this is the only element I really don't like. There is a male version of the Succubus after all, called Incubus. People do this with witches too, which is annoying. Witch can be technically refer to a person of either gender. I remember finding out a game about witches that excluded men entirely, their reasoning being that it was a game about witches. 

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The devastating mood swings they experience are so severe in their character that excessive violence could seriously destroy the confidence of the Skyra clan member.
Not sure what your talking about here honestly, it seems a little random to be honest.

Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Random thought experiment - other creatures becoming Vampire Clan
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2017, 08:43:16 PM »
I hope that I'm on the right track with this, feel free to tell me if not, I will delete the post. I am taking the succubae as basis for this clan that rivals the Toreador in the art of seduction and Ravnos in the art of illusion.
Interesting idea, I'd say it qualifies sure. It's just fun as I said so its nothing to serious.

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Skyra
Antideluvian: Skyria
Interesting might I ask where these names came from?

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Clan weakness: illumination that could reveal their true horrific forms. This fear can induce terror during the embrace.
What sort of illumination? Like simple lights or what?

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almost every member of this clan is female (like Daughters of Cacophony).
I'll be honest this is the only element I really don't like. There is a male version of the Succubus after all, called Incubus. People do this with witches too, which is annoying. Witch can be technically refer to a person of either gender. I remember finding out a game about witches that excluded men entirely, their reasoning being that it was a game about witches. 

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The devastating mood swings they experience are so severe in their character that excessive violence could seriously destroy the confidence of the Skyra clan member.
Not sure what your talking about here honestly, it seems a little random to be honest.

I'll clarify ;).

1. First the name. When it comes to the creation of the word, I tried to have a little background on it: Skyra is created from the word Scythia (antic kingdom in central Eurasia). Now bear with me please: since the legends of these demons came mostly from the stories that in one way or another have some connection with Lilith (again a figure that has a lot of similar goddesses in the Middle East) I've decided to play along and transmute the name of one such kingdom into a name for this clan. Second reason: I'm a writer so I have a knack for it. ;)

2. Illumination. Normal lights and close contact. According to the succubus myth, only upon closer inspection one can see their true form. I "transported" this moment into the description of my clan here.

3. Gender. Well, I tried to add "exclusiveness" since I got used to it in VtM. When me and a group of close friends roleplay vtm, I adore the Daughters of Cacophony though I also feel bad in the same time because I can only be female (I love the humanity of the clan and that is why I am so persistent with it). I always liked that intensive connection with music... So this statement about females is the reflection of my "sorrow". :(

4. Mood swings. I wanted to add a deeper humanity connection - imagine how difficult it must be to endure isolation like the Skyra sisters feel: not allowing anyone to come closer, to behold their cruel visage. That causes strain and duress in them, knowing that only by masking their appearance in some way can make closer contact.

I hope that I managed to clean up the mess. I just like clans that are at least remotely humane and I tried to put that sentiment into this.
Me: "I love lollipops!"
WoD ST: "We don't allow lollipops, because we are too dark!"

Offline The Shadow Man

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Re: Random thought experiment - other creatures becoming Vampire Clan
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2017, 11:17:24 PM »
I'll clarify ;).

1. First the name. When it comes to the creation of the word, I tried to have a little background on it: Skyra is created from the word Scythia (antic kingdom in central Eurasia). Now bear with me please: since the legends of these demons came mostly from the stories that in one way or another have some connection with Lilith (again a figure that has a lot of similar goddesses in the Middle East) I've decided to play along and transmute the name of one such kingdom into a name for this clan. Second reason: I'm a writer so I have a knack for it. ;)
Interesting, I do writing myself and I've come with quiet a few names now. The Bahan are far from my best work, I would like to point out.

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2. Illumination. Normal lights and close contact. According to the succubus myth, only upon closer inspection one can see their true form. I "transported" this moment into the description of my clan here.
Interesting never heard that before. I should really look into this.

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3. Gender. Well, I tried to add "exclusiveness" since I got used to it in VtM. When me and a group of close friends roleplay vtm, I adore the Daughters of Cacophony though I also feel bad in the same time because I can only be female (I love the humanity of the clan and that is why I am so persistent with it). I always liked that intensive connection with music... So this statement about females is the reflection of my "sorrow". :(
Well females are approximately half the population so its less exclusive and more the no men club. They could easily only embrace one kind of people; like how the Assamites and Ravnos were to start with, but not using racial backgrounds like them. Perhaps they only embrace people who are addicted to sex or some such things, this could easily be people of either gender. Becoming a member of the Clan could actually rehabilitate them better than any other method and if it doesn't it could lead to bad consequences.

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4. Mood swings. I wanted to add a deeper humanity connection - imagine how difficult it must be to endure isolation like the Skyra sisters feel: not allowing anyone to come closer, to behold their cruel visage. That causes strain and duress in them, knowing that only by masking their appearance in some way can make closer contact.
I see that makes sense.

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I hope that I managed to clean up the mess. I just like clans that are at least remotely humane and I tried to put that sentiment into this.
Thanks for the clarifications. I think Clans should have multiple sides to them; good and bad, so I think we agree.

Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Random thought experiment - other creatures becoming Vampire Clan
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2017, 08:57:20 AM »
A fellow writer? Small world. ;)
I am mostly writing noir, since it gives me enough space to perform various psychological "acrobatics" so to speak. Other than that I have several short thrillers, but the latest are the two VtM spin-offs that cover the space prior the events of Bloodlines (LaCroix makes a cameo in one of the stories). They follow a WWI veteran that searches for a way to attain Galconda and thereby rid/curtail the beast's influence. The closest parallel I can think of is maybe Christof.

BTW, Bahan sounds cool, nothing bad about it in my eyes, but if you are as the creator unsatisfied, of course you can work on "improving" it. ;)

Back to the topic at hand. ;)
I will take your advice an introduce the male versions of the Skyra clan (you put a valid point forward) since they will appear in my second spin-off as one of the protagonist's aides. Maybe this will break the traditional cannon of WoD since it introduces a whole new clan, but it's a sort of personal tribute to the world of the game that has been so good to me in the past decade or so.
When you start researching the Succubus/Incubus myth, there will be a lot of biased texts, some even ridiculous. That is why I recommend searching for information through the precursor of the myth and maybe its founder - Lilith. I presume that you are familiar with the figure, but I also think that through it you will get a more complete and sensible picture about the myth. I wrote a small and a relatively humorous article on this blog before a couple of years dealing with the subject, so you may find interesting or at least informative:

https://iostream.info/the-mother-of-darkness-story-behind-lilith/

That is also my take on the entire thing. I found it interesting how the people in ancient times explained all complications during childbirth as doing of Lilith, but like we already established in the other topic, the knowledge about the entire thing was scanty at best.

Me: "I love lollipops!"
WoD ST: "We don't allow lollipops, because we are too dark!"

Offline The Shadow Man

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Re: Random thought experiment - other creatures becoming Vampire Clan
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2017, 01:38:14 PM »
A fellow writer? Small world. ;)
I am mostly writing noir, since it gives me enough space to perform various psychological "acrobatics" so to speak. Other than that I have several short thrillers, but the latest are the two VtM spin-offs that cover the space prior the events of Bloodlines (LaCroix makes a cameo in one of the stories). They follow a WWI veteran that searches for a way to attain Galconda and thereby rid/curtail the beast's influence. The closest parallel I can think of is maybe Christof.
Interesting. My work shares similar themes to WoD in places but its completely standalone.

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BTW, Bahan sounds cool, nothing bad about it in my eyes, but if you are as the creator unsatisfied, of course you can work on "improving" it. ;)
Thanks I'm glad you like.

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Back to the topic at hand. ;)
I will take your advice an introduce the male versions of the Skyra clan (you put a valid point forward) since they will appear in my second spin-off as one of the protagonist's aides. Maybe this will break the traditional cannon of WoD since it introduces a whole new clan, but it's a sort of personal tribute to the world of the game that has been so good to me in the past decade or so.
Another thing, to be frank we don't need an all female group of Vampires. It comes off as the men haters with fangs, cue anger and rage. Just imagine if you tried having an all male group of something, its very rare that you'd get away with that no a days, the Catholic Church are the only ones that seem to pull it off.

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When you start researching the Succubus/Incubus myth, there will be a lot of biased texts, some even ridiculous.
Wouldn't surprise me, even a lot of Vampire myths involve solely females, as such Dracula seems to be the biggest change in this regard. I imagine it has a lot to do with how women were viewed as well as humanity's view of sexuality, as such being particular evident in the Estries, Vampire of Jewish folklore, who are very much connected to Succubi.  I actually adapted the Estries somewhat for my writing though dropping the female only clause. Of course, especially in folklore, it could easily (and most likely) had been a way of prosecuting women for thing or otherwise seeing them in a bad light, whether or not they actually did the things accused of.

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That is why I recommend searching for information through the precursor of the myth and maybe its founder - Lilith. I presume that you are familiar with the figure, but I also think that through it you will get a more complete and sensible picture about the myth. I wrote a small and a relatively humorous article on this blog before a couple of years dealing with the subject, so you may find interesting or at least informative:

https://iostream.info/the-mother-of-darkness-story-behind-lilith/

That is also my take on the entire thing. I found it interesting how the people in ancient times explained all complications during childbirth as doing of Lilith, but like we already established in the other topic, the knowledge about the entire thing was scanty at best.

Lilith, Adam's first wife from Jewish folklore and of course appearing in the mythos of Vampire: the Masquerade. She has just as much of a Demon connection as a Vampire one but then again Vampires were often thought of as Demons anyway. 'Vampires' eating fetuses and the like does come up, a disturbing amount of times in folklore. Apparently Lilith has had a great effect on occult writing and such. Interesting if at times frank article, I hope I haven't fallen prey to what you say, of course on the whole I steer clear of religious sites. Lilith just simple isn't a great figure to revere, in the same way going around saying 'Hail Satan' isn't a good idea. I've read quiet a few things in my time, folklore wise and plenty of is questionable from a modern perspective but while I do believe women have been mistreated (which is reflected in folklore in places), as others have, a lot over the years and still are in some places; I think that obsessing over this won't get us anywhere however. Again cue anger and rage.

All that being said I'm currently working on a story about Jack the Ripper and I hope to be sensitive as possible while making points about the era.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 01:58:58 PM by The Shadow Man »

Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Random thought experiment - other creatures becoming Vampire Clan
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2017, 08:10:42 PM »
Estries, funny that you should mention them - I was just pondering about six or seven days ago whether to style my Skyra clan like them or the succubi, but I went for the latter like I have written above. I wanted to add a penitent sentiment to them and to reform it a bit, just to make them jump out of the stereotype that has been given to them as sex-driven demons. Maybe through detailing and reducing the nefarious element I can "score" a more identifiable imagery. I myself find it easier to imagine an embraced Skyra member wishing to contrite and fighting constant fear and dread of someone getting close; to live like a damned monster is already hard, but not even possessing a chance to act remotely like a human being is just oil on the fire. That is why they must blend chemirstry and presence - to give a dosage of life to themselves. 

So you are writing about Jack the Ripper? Well, my take on the character is a vigilante one, but somewhere before the crusade something terrible must had happened to force him into doing those acts. I don't think that he was a nutjob, but a highly intelligent killer... still I would like to hear some of your own points. ;)
Me: "I love lollipops!"
WoD ST: "We don't allow lollipops, because we are too dark!"

Offline The Shadow Man

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Re: Random thought experiment - other creatures becoming Vampire Clan
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2017, 02:50:31 AM »
Estries, funny that you should mention them - I was just pondering about six or seven days ago whether to style my Skyra clan like them or the succubi, but I went for the latter like I have written above. I wanted to add a penitent sentiment to them and to reform it a bit, just to make them jump out of the stereotype that has been given to them as sex-driven demons. Maybe through detailing and reducing the nefarious element I can "score" a more identifiable imagery. I myself find it easier to imagine an embraced Skyra member wishing to contrite and fighting constant fear and dread of someone getting close; to live like a damned monster is already hard, but not even possessing a chance to act remotely like a human being is just oil on the fire. That is why they must blend chemirstry and presence - to give a dosage of life to themselves. 
I really like this idea.

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So you are writing about Jack the Ripper? Well, my take on the character is a vigilante one, but somewhere before the crusade something terrible must had happened to force him into doing those acts. I don't think that he was a nutjob, but a highly intelligent killer... still I would like to hear some of your own points. ;)
Didn't know I left that in lol, I thought I'd removed it. Well without saying too much my take on Jack the Ripper is in some way supernatural but his reasons for doing it are very human however; something terrible happened to him and he's doing what he's doing because of it. My take is he is some what of a nut job but still  trying to show him in a way where you can understand why he did what he did, even though what he did was terrible plus he's gone through a recent change that makes it more difficult for him to control himself in certain ways. Even monsters can be victims.

Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Random thought experiment - other creatures becoming Vampire Clan
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2017, 10:29:01 AM »
Well, if you publish it somewhere, sometime I would like to read it. ;)
As for the character of Jack that you have written about, people are almost always driven into the clutches of revenge by an event that forces them to see themselves as victims. I applaud the idea of showing that even those "beings" that we claim as monsters have a humane, relatively good side that has been corrupted by either tragedy or misunderstanding... after all, none of us had been born pure evil or demented.
As for his supernatural variant, I always pictured Jack as either a vengeful wraith/specter or a devious changeling. He was far from a simple butcher/murderer, but a more intelligent and cunning character that acted out of still obscure reasons. I wonder if we will ever find out why he did what he did. ;)
Just to borrow a sentence from FEAR: "It is in human nature to create monsters and it is in monster's nature to kill their makers."
Me: "I love lollipops!"
WoD ST: "We don't allow lollipops, because we are too dark!"

Offline The Shadow Man

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Re: Random thought experiment - other creatures becoming Vampire Clan
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2017, 02:53:57 PM »
Well, if you publish it somewhere, sometime I would like to read it. ;)
As for the character of Jack that you have written about, people are almost always driven into the clutches of revenge by an event that forces them to see themselves as victims. I applaud the idea of showing that even those "beings" that we claim as monsters have a humane, relatively good side that has been corrupted by either tragedy or misunderstanding... after all, none of us had been born pure evil or demented.
Well even Monsters can be Victims

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As for his supernatural variant, I always pictured Jack as either a vengeful wraith/specter or a devious changeling. He was far from a simple butcher/murderer, but a more intelligent and cunning character that acted out of still obscure reasons. I wonder if we will ever find out why he did what he did. ;)
Mine isn't a ghost nor a changeling but something else. He also has a legacy in my setting that makes him more important than what he would otherwise be.

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Just to borrow a sentence from FEAR: "It is in human nature to create monsters and it is in monster's nature to kill their makers."
I like it - very Frankenstein.

 

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