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Author Topic: Need help with Second ed combatdamage system  (Read 2836 times)

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Offline [archive] Orchestra35779547

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                I'm a seasoned vet when it comes to rpgs, but I fear I've been using the combat system for vampire wrong since I was 13. I usually DM (storytell) ad&d,heavy gear, gurps, and others. Could someone give me and example of 2 characters fighting preferably gun fighting.
 use a dodge if you can, have one person using two weapons(split dice pool) ect. What effect does body armor have? Does it up the damage you can take or the soak you can use? or the difficult to be hit?
 
 Thanks alot, I've been searching for days.                        

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] iori[SNK]

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Re: Need help with Second ed combatdamage system
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2005, 07:24:00 AM »
                OK I'll try to do this and keep it as simple as possible.  These are some basics along with how I do things for my troupe.
 
 One any Dice pull is usually a mix of an Attribute with an Ability. The total number being the total number of dice to roll.  A Difficulty is either predetermined or assign by the Storyteller.
 
 The Different means of attacking
 1) Brawling - A roll of Dexterity + Brawl Skill, Brawling is hand-to-hand combat.  Everything from Punching to kicking to Body Slamming.
 
 2) Melee - A roll of Dexterity + Melee Skill, Melee is combat with a weapon held in hand.  Blunt, sharp, piercing or other.  Everything from Swords to Broken Beer bottles fall into this category.
 
 3) Firearms - A roll of Dexterity + Firearms Skill, Firearms are guns flat out.  Each gun has a different difficulty but can be increased or decreased by the storyteller depending on conditions.
 
 
 
 A brief example of Brawling combat
 Sarah and Paul have decided to Spar for reasons of their own.  First they both roll Initiatives, (An Initiative rolls are used to determine who goes when),   They both roll the attribute Wits + the skill Alertness. (As a personal house rule of my troupe if the character has 0 of alertness they still roll the wits alone. 3+0 is still 3.  Initiative is only rolled once per battle not every turn that’s tedious.)  The difficulty for Initiative is 6 by default but can be changed by the ST.
 
 Both Players Roll.
 Sarah’s Dice pool is a total of 6
 4 in Dexterity and 2 in alertness.
 She rolls 4, 3, 3, 6 ,9 ,4 – 2 Successes. Meaning she has 2 for Initiative
 (Successes indicate the number of dice equal or greater then the difficulty)
 
 Paul’s Dice pool is a total of 7
 3 in Dexterity and 4 in alertness
 He rolls 1, 3, 8, 5, 8, 1, 8 - 1 Success.  Meaning he has 1 for Initiative
 (Note a 1 or a Botch takes away a success Paul would have had 3 successes but the 1’s take away 2 of them leaving him with one success.  If at any time no successes are present the roll is failed.  If there are more 1’s then Successes the roll is botched!  A failed Initiative roll indicates the player goes last.  I botched Initiative roll indicates that the player not only goes last but losses the skips the first round of combat.)
 
 Now Sarah goes first because her Initiative is higher, she decides she wants to attempt to land a punch on Paul.  She rolls Dexterity + Brawl total Dice Pool of 7
 She rolls 8, 9, 8, 1, 6, 1, 10 – 3 Successes (Typically only three successes are needed to succeed at any task, so 3 successes are sufficient to land the strike.)  
 
 At this point Paul decides he will attempt to dodge.  (Dodging is a Reflexive roll so it does not count as his action, however a character without dodge cannot “dodgeâ€? reflexively and instead counts as their turn)  He rolls Dexterity + Dodge total Dice Pool of 6
 
 He rolls 6, 9, 7, 1, 3, 10 – 3 Successes.  Having scored as many successes as Sarah, Paul has successfully (and just barely) dodged her attack.  (To dodge you must score equal or greater successes then the attacker).
 
 Now it is Paul’s Turn he Decides he wants to kick Sarah back.  He rolls Dexterity + Brawl a total Pool of 7
 
 He rolls 10, 6, 4, 8, 2, 6, 1 – 3 Successes, The strike lands but Sarah declares she is going to try a dodge.  She rolls Dexterity + Dodge a Total Pool of 8
 
 She Rolls 2, 9, 4, 5, 1, 8, 3, 1 – Sarah’s Dodge Roll failed!  She takes the hit full on.  Paul rolls the damage of a kick (which is Strength + 1 , Paul’s Strength is 4 so his total Damage dice pool is 5)  
 
 He Rolls 7, 7, 5, 10, 3 – 3 Successes, Sarah takes 3 health levels of Damage however she rolls to Soak, because it is a reflex Roll
 
 She rolls her Stamina plus her Armor rating (Armor can only be added as long as it’s relevant to the situation, some powers ignore armor)  Her stamina rating is 3 and her Armor rating, a Leather Jacket, is 1.  so she has a Dice Pool of 4
 
 She rolls 9, 7, 5, 4 – 2 Successes, Sarah is able to Soak or ‘Absorb’ 2 of the points of damage directed at her.  And only takes 1 Health Level of Damage.  Taking her down to Bruised.
 
 
 
 That is pretty much the jest of how combat works.  Melee combat adds the weapon to the damage pool, and Firearms have their own separate Dice pools.
 
 
 
 Now let’s split Dice pools.  
 Just as it says.  The character is going to take multiple actions at once meaning it will more difficult to do.  Always split them in half evenly and round down.  If the total dice pool is 8,  taking two actions would split the dice pull into 4/4 meaning 4 dice rolled for each action.   That’s about it.  Aside from that they function as normal aside from the ST might up the difficulty.
 
 
 If you need anymore help just ask.  That's way my troupe uses the rules.                        

 

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Offline [archive] Offkorn

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Re: Need help with Second ed combatdamage system
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2005, 08:43:00 AM »
                That's mainly correct except for the fact that you're doing initiative wrong:
 
 The initiative is determined by rolling one die and adding it to your character's Dexterity+Wits score, and then subtracting wound penalties.                        

 

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Offline [archive] iori[SNK]

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Re: Need help with Second ed combatdamage system
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2005, 03:33:00 PM »
                In Reply To #3
 
Offkorn posted:

 That's mainly correct except for the fact that you're doing initiative wrong:
 
 The initiative is determined by rolling one die and adding it to your character's Dexterity+Wits score, and then subtracting wound penalties.

 
 Like I said that's how my troupe has been doing it happy                        

 

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Offline [archive] Orchestra35779547

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Re: Need help with Second ed combatdamage system
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2005, 04:34:00 PM »
                Thanks, that was really helpful.
 
 I've been doing it mostly right. But what I don't understand is the damage pool of firearms. The damage of your firearm is added to the damage pool which would be your Dex+Firearms? What about range and body armor?                        

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] iori[SNK]

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Re: Need help with Second ed combatdamage system
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2005, 05:04:00 PM »
                In Reply To #5
 
Orchestra posted:

 Thanks, that was really helpful.
 
 I've been doing it mostly right. But what I don't understand is the damage pool of firearms. The damage of your firearm is added to the damage pool which would be your Dex+Firearms? What about range and body armor?

 
 Body armor works the same way as I described before it's added to soak as normal.  but Firearms have their own dice pool.  mean a shotgun has a Damage pool of 8 so eight dice are rolled for determining damage.  It use to be in earlier editions you successes from rolling to hit would be added to the damage dice pool.  But I think they got rid of that in 3rd edition                        

 

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Offline [archive] Offkorn

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Re: Need help with Second ed combatdamage system
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2005, 05:23:00 PM »
               
AkitoYagami posted:

 It use to be in earlier editions you successes from rolling to hit would be added to the damage dice pool.  But I think they got rid of that in 3rd edition

 
 No, it's still that way. Botches were just redone.
 
 In order to botch now, you have to role no successes AND one or more 1's.                        

 

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Offline [archive] Orchestra35779547

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Re: Need help with Second ed combatdamage system
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2005, 05:50:00 PM »
                So a shotgun with an 8 damage and a difficulty of 7 to add.
 
 A man shooting at a women with a 7 dice pool(dex+FA) Difficulty 6 gets 1 6 5 8 3 7 3. 2 sucesses. Is this a miss?
 
 suppose the 1 is instead a 7  thats 4 sucesses, a hit.
 
 How is the damage dice pool determined? Do I roll the 8 against a 7 difficult then add the dice to the damage pool? If so is the damage pool the number of sucesses on the original to hit roll?(4)
 
 So the way I would do it from your explanation is roll the shotgun pool say 8 8 7 3 3 2 2 1, 2 sucesses?  added to the original sucesses thats 4 + 2 dice for the damage pool for a "possible" total to send a kindred into torpor. Then the soak? So the body armor would add dice to the soak dice pool?                        

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] Offkorn

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Re: Need help with Second ed combatdamage system
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2005, 05:58:00 PM »
               
Orchestra posted:

 So a shotgun with an 8 damage and a difficulty of 7 to add.
 
 A man shooting at a women with a 7 dice pool(dex+FA) Difficulty 6 gets 1 6 5 8 3 7 3. 2 sucesses. Is this a miss?
 
 suppose the 1 is instead a 7  thats 4 sucesses, a hit. ?

 
 You usually only need one success to hit.
 
 

How is the damage dice pool determined? Do I roll the 8 against a 7 difficult then add the dice to the damage pool? If so is the damage pool the number of sucesses on the original to hit roll?(4)

 
 Damage difficulty is normally always 6. Any additional successes you got on the attack roll would be added to the damage pool.
 
 So, using your above example (with 2 successes) you would roll 9 dice for damage (8 base + 1 extra success on the attack).
 
 

Then the soak? So the body armor would add dice to the soak dice pool?

 
 Yes.
 
 ----------------------------------------------------------
 
 Let me try and break this down very simply:
 
 Player 2 is a Vampire
 Player 1 has 2 Firearms and 3 Dexterity.
 Player 2 has 4 Stamina and no Fortitude or Armor.
 A Shotgun does 8 Damage
 Base Difficulty is 6.
 Rolling a 1 subtracts from the number of successes.
 
 Player 1 fires her shotgun at Player 2. She rolls 5 dice to attack, and gets: 6,1,7,9,7. Which is 3 successes (4-1).
 
 Player 2 doesn't see the attack coming and doesn't dodge, so the final number of attack successes is 3.
 
 Now Player 1 rolls 10 dice (8+the 2 extra successes on the attack roll) for damage. She gets: 4,3,8,8,2,9,5,2,7,5 (4 successes).
 
 Player 2 rolls their soak of 4 dice (4 sta + no armor/fortitude) and gets: 6,6,1,8 (2 successes).
 
 The total damage done to Player 2 is: 2 (the 4 original - the 2 that were soaked).
 
 If you were using revised rules, you would now halve the damage since guns do Bashing damage in revised.                        

 

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Offline [archive] iori[SNK]

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Re: Need help with Second ed combatdamage system
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2005, 07:37:00 PM »
                In Reply To #10
 
Orchestra posted:

 Thank you, I'm in your debt.
 
 [added Apr 22 2005  1:28PM]
 
 So why do weapons have difficulty?
 
 [added Apr 22 2005  1:35PM]
 
 is the the difficulty on the added dice in the damage pool? or the difficulty on the damage pool itself

 
 Weapons have different difficulties because just like real life weapons vary.  Firing a pistol (Difficulty of 6)is eas but doesn't do much damamge, as opposed to aiming a Rifle ( Difficulty 7 oe 8 depending on the rifle) will do more damamge.
 
 And as with Melee weapons a simple dagger (difficulty 4) easy easy to use but has low damage (Strength + 2) as opposed to saw a Chainsaw (difficulty 8) which is hard to weild but if hits does a nice chunk of damamge (Strength + 7)
 
 And the difficulty of the damage pool always is the same difficulty as the Weapon/Combat Maneuver.  Unless stated otherwise by the ST
 
 [added Apr 22 2005  2:44PM]
 
 Just to help you out alittle more Info is from including Weapons Lists and Combat Initiative is at Dark Nexus                        

 

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Offline [archive] Orchestra35779547

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Need help with Second ed combatdamage system
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2005, 06:27:00 PM »
                Thank you, I'm in your debt.
 
 [added Apr 22 2005  1:28PM]
 
 So why do weapons have difficulty?
 
 [added Apr 22 2005  1:35PM]
 
 is the the difficulty on the added dice in the damage pool? or the difficulty on the damage pool itself