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Author Topic: 2nd Gen Disciplines  (Read 1727 times)

Offline [archive] LJW--123

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Re: 2nd Gen Disciplines
« on: March 10, 2005, 09:56:00 PM »
                In Reply To #11
 
Ephemeron posted:

 Some of older sourcebooks stated that Tremere learned Thamataurgy from Setites. However, this is no longer the case in Revised or Dark Ages: indeed, both House of Tremere and Blood Treachery describe Tremere Thamataurgy's Hermetic roots in painstaking detail.
 
 Still, there was indeed a number of blood mages predating the Tremere (Mekhet being the most prominent example). After all, any vampire possessed with sufficient mental prowess and occult education can, given time and opportunity to experiment, discover Thamataurgy by trial and error. It wouldn't share the peculiar qualities of Tremere magics (Tremere/Hermetics can counter each other's spells at full power, and Hermetic magic is always coincidental in a Tremere chantry), but would function equally well in all other aspects.
 
 Furthermore, the Book of Nod mentions Caine awakening within himself "one final path, from which all paths would grow". It is, therefore, quite possible that Thamataurgy is Caine's own creation (as opposed to other Disciplines taught to him by Lilith).

 
 Well I would disagree since Thaumaturgy is the same no matter how one tries to say "Thaumaturgy" is diffrent when dealing with the Tremere.  Thaumaturgy (in the copywrite violation sense :P)is an act of ones inner will according to White Wolf.  All the Tremere did was  figure out what other vampire mages who practiced that particular form already knew.                        

 

                                                  

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Offline [archive] iori[SNK]

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Re: 2nd Gen Disciplines
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2005, 07:40:00 AM »
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  •                 2nd Generations Like Caine don't have Disciplines they have storyteller clout.  Meaning anything the st wants them to do they can do.  but if you absolutely need to give them stats... they would have spheres not disciplines.                        

     

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    Offline [archive] Offkorn

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    Re: 2nd Gen Disciplines
    « Reply #2 on: April 22, 2005, 08:38:00 AM »
                    In Reply To #17
     
    AkitoYagami posted:

     2nd Generations Like Caine don't have Disciplines they have storyteller clout.  Meaning anything the st wants them to do they can do.  but if you absolutely need to give them stats... they would have spheres not disciplines.

     
     Caine is 1st gen, the 2nd generation are his childer, and no they wouldn't have spheres. Vampires are completly cut off from true magic.
     
     This is where the "Gehenna" book is actually usefull, it gives the disciplines for a few 2nd generation vampires.                        

     

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    Offline [archive] iori[SNK]

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    Re: 2nd Gen Disciplines
    « Reply #3 on: April 22, 2005, 07:54:00 PM »
                    In Reply To #18
     
    Offkorn posted:

     In Reply To #17
     
    AkitoYagami posted:

     2nd Generations Like Caine don't have Disciplines they have storyteller clout.  Meaning anything the st wants them to do they can do.  but if you absolutely need to give them stats... they would have spheres not disciplines.</quote>
     
     Caine is 1st gen, the 2nd generation are his childer, and no they wouldn't have spheres. Vampires are completly cut off from true magic.
     
     This is where the "Gehenna" book is actually usefull, it gives the disciplines for a few 2nd generation vampires.

     
     <quote by="Offkorn">
     As far as speculation goes, it is safe to completely ignore "Gehenna". As all 4 scenarios are "cannon" each disproves all the others. So you can't take one as true above the others.
     
     So to avoid tons of confusion is is best to completely ignore it.
     
     Also, it says that Abisimiliard is inactive. Yet in the Transylvannia Chronicles he is quite active. Since it contadicts numerous previous sources without apparent rhyme or reason, as well as itself, you really can't take anything in it at face value.

     
     as you said yourself,  Besides if at Any time a player has a character that has a remote chance of beating a second gen or even Cain you know your definately playing wrong.  That is why Spheres far surpase mere disciplines for the purpose of Showing how exactly superior they are compared to average kindred.                        

     

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    Offline [archive] Offkorn

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    Re: 2nd Gen Disciplines
    « Reply #4 on: April 22, 2005, 11:12:00 PM »
                   
    AkitoYagami posted:

     That is why Spheres far surpase mere disciplines for the purpose of Showing how exactly superior they are compared to average kindred.

     
     Any discipline level above 5 shows how superior they are, there is absolutly no need to go giving them powers that they have no hope of possessing.                        

     

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    Offline [archive] iori[SNK]

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    Re: 2nd Gen Disciplines
    « Reply #5 on: April 22, 2005, 11:54:00 PM »
                    In Reply To #20
     
    Offkorn posted:

     
    AkitoYagami posted:

     That is why Spheres far surpase mere disciplines for the purpose of Showing how exactly superior they are compared to average kindred.

     
     Any discipline level above 5 shows how superior they are, there is absolutly no need to go giving them powers that they have no hope of possessing.

     
     True, but keep in mind that An archmage has the possibly to create disciplines, that is a perfect example of how Lilth helped Cain "Create" The disciplines.                        

     

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    Offline [archive] Offkorn

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    Re: 2nd Gen Disciplines
    « Reply #6 on: April 23, 2005, 10:22:00 AM »
                   
    AkitoYagami posted:

     True, but keep in mind that An archmage has the possibly to create disciplines, that is a perfect example of how Lilth helped Cain "Create" The disciplines.

     
     This is correct, which is why the Spheres are greater then the disciplines.                        

     

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    Offline [archive] iori[SNK]

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    Re: 2nd Gen Disciplines
    « Reply #7 on: April 24, 2005, 12:21:00 AM »
                    In Reply To #22
     
    Offkorn posted:

     
    AkitoYagami posted:

     True, but keep in mind that An archmage has the possibly to create disciplines, that is a perfect example of how Lilth helped Cain "Create" The disciplines.

     
     This is correct, which is why the Spheres are greater then the disciplines.

     
     Glad we agree on that happy   This was a quiet stimulating conversation                        

     

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    Offline [archive] Kunopsik

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    2nd Gen Disciplines
    « Reply #8 on: July 13, 2005, 04:27:00 AM »
                    well first off they are second generation kindred. They might have their own disciplines that evolved into the special in-clan disciplines of their childer. Also keep in mind, kindred can learn disciplines other than their native three. The older the kindred the more knowledge they would have. I agree with the post saying that their powers are st imagination. But they're "dead". Also something that has been plauging me. Obfuscate can erase your existance from all records and minds....how do we know that their aren't extra second and third generation kindred out there eh?