The Driving Question

[VentrueIan]

In mage in werewolf, it wouldn't be a problem at all, to a vampire, it really would be. Why? Taxi fees add up quick, and buses stop running between 9pm and midnight depending on the bus route. If they have to get there fast to help someone thats in an emergency, inconvenience could be that the taxi took an hour to respond, not to mention they have no idea how long a taxi will take to respond. What if its an hour from daylight, and they aren't near home yet, now when they call that taxi they're gonna be stressing, it may be the last call they make.

Thats why vampires have retainers

Tell me, how many retainers are gangrel and brujah known for having? Nor does that answer to those that live in cities were the need to drive doesn't come up. Not to mention is the car a stick shift? Because if they don't know how to drive a stick shift theirs a good chance they won't make it out of the parking lot with out killing it. With an automatic, I'm all for giving them an effective 1pt, for a stick shift...not so much.

[Radical21]

Tell me, how many retainers are gangrel and brujah known for having? Nor does that answer to those that live in cities were the need to drive doesn't come up.

Is that a trick question? Gangrel and Brujah are Clans, if you like to Stereotype characters thats your own choice, they can have as many Retainers as suitable.

What do you mean by doesn't answer to those that live in cities where the need to drive doesn't come up? In that case there is no problem.

Stick-shift is annoying but its not learning C# in 5 mins,  if you figure out how a Stick-shift works(I agree that its not very intuitive with pressing and releasing the clutch and all) you can drive it awkwardly and maybe the clutch slips since you are not used to it. 
but figuring out how to start driving it only happens once and its still not rocket science...

[Rick Gentle]

For the sake of fullness, Gangrel can fall back on Protean - Earth Meld to sleep away the day, Shapeshifting into a "flight" form for quicker travel - so they don't often need modern conveniences like cars. I don't think Beckett knows how to drive.
On the other hand, Rick Gentle has a dot or two in Drive, because he was raised in an urban environment which DIDN'T have all the handy-dandy public transportation (Los Angeles), and he could go more places with a car than he could either by foot or by said public transportation.

[VentrueIan]

Tell me, how many retainers are gangrel and brujah known for having? Nor does that answer to those that live in cities were the need to drive doesn't come up.

Is that a trick question? Gangrel and Brujah are Clans, if you like to Stereotype characters thats your own choice, they can have as many Retainers as suitable.

What do you mean by doesn't answer to those that live in cities where the need to drive doesn't come up? In that case there is no problem.

Stick-shift is annoying but its not learning C# in 5 mins,  if you figure out how a Stick-shift works(I agree that its not very intuitive with pressing and releasing the clutch and all) you can drive it awkwardly and maybe the clutch slips since you are not used to it. 
but figuring out how to start driving it only happens once and its still not rocket science...

Its just as much of a stereotype to assume they do all have retainers. In fact, an example from bloodlines, skelter seems against the idea alltogether.

And back to those in the city where its unnecessary, part of the plot could be having them displaced. IE, grew up and was embraced and lived most of your existence in new york, due to a misunderstanding your on the run and need to get out of town. My god man, use your imagination for a minute.

I drive stick, I know its not rocket science. However if your trying to learn while being chased by people who are trying to kill you, its not going to go well. Even if you get moving, it takes one slip up (which is common as shit when people are getting used to stick shift) of letting up on the clutch without your foot on the gas for the car to die, at which point chaser is gaining massive ground with their sulfur guns getting in range.... If they're trying to learn at the beginning of a road trip, there is a strong chance the transmission won't make the trip. Will this happen all the time? No, but this is WHY there are skill points to check. If they don't, instead of acting like the car is the only option and getting away with it due to this magical baic driving knowledge were supposed to have, they should be forced to get creative and use the skills they DO have.

[Isador]

I am currently actually getting driving lessons, and not in an automatic.

If you never drove a car with a stick and suddenly have to jump in one and get it going, trust me, thats going to take you more effort then you'd expect, especially if there's no one telling you what you're doing wrong. The sheer amount of tries you'd have to take to get just the right feel for it without prior instruction will most likely take so long that if someone's pursuing you on foot and you have about 100 meters worth of distance between him and you, he'll have enough time to walk up to the car, take out his key chain, go through EVERY SINGLE KEY to get to the right one, casually open the door, and then proceed to beat your face in with the steering wheel.

[Friktion]

You guys seem to be throwing in a whole heck of a lot of "ifs" and extra conditions, but let me ask you this.

Assuming you have never learned how to drive a car and never driven a car before, how hard would it be for you to get in the driver seat and drive to the store?

No car chases, no fights, no problems.  Just on the fly figuring out how to work the gas, the brake, and the steering wheel.

I'm willing to bet that any individual of normal intelligence and functioning can do this without any prior instruction, just by imitating what he saw on television and very simple and brief trial and error.  Or in game terms: wits.  Once we get fancy (ie: stick shift, trucks, car chase, fancy maneuvers) they need some actual learned skill.  Or in game terms: drive.

That's how I see it.

Now if you're character is 400 years old or has a fear of technology or is blind or has fish fins for hands or whatever, yeah special rules apply.  But I think for the overwhelming majority of us, it's no big deal.

If you put points in drive that's because you want your character to have some extra skills like being able to tail someone or avoid being tailed or what not.  If you didn't then you're just average Joe in a car.

[Radical21]

You guys seem to be throwing in a whole heck of a lot of "ifs" and extra conditions, but let me ask you this.

Assuming you have never learned how to drive a car and never driven a car before, how hard would it be for you to get in the driver seat and drive to the store?

No car chases, no fights, no problems.  Just on the fly figuring out how to work the gas, the brake, and the steering wheel.

I'm willing to bet that any individual of normal intelligence and functioning can do this without any prior instruction, just by imitating what he saw on television and very simple and brief trial and error.  Or in game terms: wits.  Once we get fancy (ie: stick shift, trucks, car chase, fancy maneuvers) they need some actual learned skill.  Or in game terms: drive.

With a stick shift? no way(And in my experience most lame second-hand budget cars are Stick-shift)... On automatic maybe there is a shot, and only if you can somehow anticipate the car speed and maneuvering and not run into other cars which is not so easy for people with no practice..
If it was that easy Driving instructors would be out of a job a long time ago and car accidents wouldn't happen..

[Aydoo]

Ok! This is in regards to the PM I just sent Rad, but I had another idea. What if we change Drive to work like Linguistics?

Even with 0 Linguistics you know how to read/write one language fluently. Each additional dot adds more languages as well as knowledge ABOUT languages in regards to rolling for getting information from someone/writing that is in another language.

So with Drive 0 you would be able to efficiantly be able to Drive your generic Automatic 4 wheeled vehicle. With Drive 1 you would have the ability to Drive another type of vehicle for example: Standard Shift 4 Wheel Vehicle, Motorbike, 4Wheeler ATV, 18Wheeler, Bulldozer, etc etc.

Each additional dot of Drive after the first adds another 2 Vehicles so it would look like this.

Drive 1:  +1 Additional Vehicle (2 Total)
Drive 2: (Drive 1) +2 Additional Vehicles (4 Total)
Drive 3: (Drive 1+2) +2 Additional Vehicles (6 Total)
Drive 4: (Drive 1+2+3) +2 Additional Vehicles (8 Total)
Drive 5: (Drive 1+2+3+4) +2 Additional Vehicles (10 Total)

This allows players to "fluently" control different types of machinery in a relatively realistically way, and then you can use the Drive skill with Wits for all "maneuvers" such as Tailing someone or "stunt" driving.


As far as super older pre-tech elders go, there has always been a type of vehicle as in horse drawn carts and carriages and other such things. This could be reflected with the 0 drive skill, since that would have been prevelant in their time period. I'd put this under Drive due to the fact that you aren't "riding" the horse so it doesn't fall under Ride. You are Driving the carriage/wagon and the horse is the "engine."

[Radical21]

So are you saying that every person learns how to drive in first grade?

[Rick Gentle]

THAT would lead to some interesting times on the playground!   

[Friktion]

I think he means that we assume that any regular person of legal driving age can at least drive an automatic.  If a character for some reason didn't want their character to drive or know how to drive (wealthy, poor, or old) we just add that as a story element instead of a skill.