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Author Topic: Disciplines Learning Curve  (Read 2144 times)

Offline Radical21

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Disciplines Learning Curve
« on: June 26, 2011, 03:57:50 PM »
I thought of the learning of Disciplines, Beyond getting the XP, how long does it take for one to learn how to use a new level of a discipline?
Is there a need for mentors? Cain and the majority of Antediluvian didn't have a teacher but it probably helps.
Intelligence is probably also a factor, smarter characters can learn faster.

Please Read and let me know what you think or changes you think needed etc.

Mechanics:
  • No Mentor:

    The Time in Nights it takes to progress in a Discipline level = New Rating * (6 - Intelligence).
    This Assumes that higher levels of the discipline are more complex and thus take more time to master.
    ( Excludes Thaumaturgy , Necromancy, Rituals, and everything that involves more conscious effort than subconscious when applying)   

    For Example: Balore has Intelligence 3 and he wants to learn Potence2 , in addition to the experience he already gained by using the discipline it takes him 6 nights to get the hang of it, though that is not enough for Balore, he needs to be stronger to survive the blood hunt and stand a chance against all the Coteries hunting for him, unfortunately he is not there yet, it will take him another period of 9 nights to grasp the principles of Potece3.


    (Option 1) : Instead of Time in nights, it makes more sense to count the number of uses required to "earn" the new level.

    (Option 2) : Allow characters to buy the Discipline level with XP and use it Instantly with Penalty of +1 to their difficulty until they master the new level?


  • [ With Mentor:
    A Willing Mentor can reduce the learning curve drastically down to New Rating (I.E Obfuscate 3 takes 3 nights to master) for common Disciplines if the Player/Mentor knows how to explain its usage IC in a detailed way that makes sense (ST discretion).

    Otherwise can Make it depends on Intelligence + Academics roll successes for the more complex disciplines (Thaumaturgy, Rituals, Necromancy and its ilk)
       
Method : To Apply this I will probably mark Data on the character sheets that the Players themselves do Not have to track, that is because I do not want to make it more complicated for players than it already is,  Instead its better to simplify things,
though players who want to be made away of this can ask me for updates on their character status when considering to spend XP.

Thoughts? Ideas? Criticism? I'll also accept a "Fuck this let just stick with XP" if that is what everyone wants.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2011, 08:58:19 PM by Radical21 »

Offline swiseefashy

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купить точны
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2011, 06:27:55 PM »
hi!

Offline Isador

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Re: Disciplines Learning Curve
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2011, 06:53:05 PM »
Hi swis, i take it you're new. If you wanna introduce yourself, it's probably a good idea to make a new thread for that  :smile:

In regard to above choice of system, i have no real preference over the systems mentioned and will deal with whichever is chosen

Offline Aydoo

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Re: Disciplines Learning Curve
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2011, 07:50:23 PM »
As well thought out and cool as these new options are, I don't think they really fit the game flow and posting structure of the current game. You realise that so far the game is on night THREE, and its been several months since we started. At the current rate and with your examples; the soonest a person could gain any discipline would be some time next year. While we exactly aren't, and the game isnt about super powered gameplay; its still I think a bad idea as it effectively neuters us especially if you introduce characters that are above our "learning curve" power level (at this point we're having trouble and nearly being wiped out to normal humans... fuck if a kindred showed up.)

I'd suggest sticking with just xp. Perhaps the first Rating + X-INT uses have a higher Difficulty to use to show the kindred is a novice at that ability. Now, this is meaning ONLY in clan disciplines. If its out of clan or one of those funky combination disciplines (where you have to have like celerity 2 and potence 1 and you get some new ability) fuck it, it should take TIME and XP as outlined above.

Remember you have already stated that we cannot progress in any skill we don't "use" thus you are already limiting us on what we can grow in. XP given then is signifying the whole of your experiences, as well as our use of our talents.

Offline Friktion

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Re: Disciplines Learning Curve
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2011, 08:27:08 PM »
I think that it depends on the discipline.  As I see it there are two types of disciplines: some are just an improvement (celerity, fortitude, potence) whereas others have new abilities and effects (pretty much everything else).

So if it's just an improvement discipline, I'd say XP is enough.  Afterall you're not really learning anything new between Potence 1 and Potence 2.  I see it as the same kind of improvement as going from strength 1 to strength 2, nobody has to teach you anything, you just need to work out.  The experience cost covers the "time" component in my opinion.

With other disciplines like Animalism, there's just no logical way to see that going from talking to animals leads to being able to call animals.  Talking to a rat won't help you know how to mystically call them.  I see this similar to knowledges. Going from computer 1 to computer 2 takes either time or an instructor.  You need to take a class or something as there's no way that turning a computer on and off or checking your email will teach you how to install software or something. 

So I'd say it depends on the discipline.  If it's the first type, experience cost should confer instant benefits.  If it's the second type, there should be a time requirement and/or teaching component.  If you guys want to remove the time requirement or the teaching component, I would suggest increasing the difficulty of the new skill by X amount.

Offline Isador

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Re: Disciplines Learning Curve
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2011, 09:11:21 PM »
I am afraid i disagree with you Friktion. I see disciplines in a very different way.

To illustrate, i'll explain my view on in-clan disciplines first. Essentially a fledgeling vampire will wake up and suddenly find that he is capable of preforming supernatural powers that a human couldn't possibly preform, despite not ever having "learned" how to do this. This gives me reason to believe that in-clan disciplines are instinctual to the vampire, therefore the only thing a vampire has to learn is how to latch on to that instinct in order to activate the power of a discipline. Therefore, even the more difficult disciplines that are native to certain clans will require no more than the knowledge on how to latch on to the instinct related to that specific discipline. A notable exception are Fortitude and Potence (and perhaps to a lesser extent, Celerity) as these are more physical in nature and do not require activation. Instead, i believe they require a sort of "awareness" (for lack of a better word) that gives the vampire the ability to draw on the power dormant in his vitae to strengthen his body without any concentration at all. It's a bit like physical strength, however instead of training your muscles, you train yourself in mastering that power dormant in your vitae.

However, out of clan disciplines are notably harder to master for vampires because whilst they draw on instincts that any vampire can learn to wield, they draw on instincts that are far deeper down than in-clan disciplines. This results in a steeper learning curve, as the vampire tries to learn powers that are not "interfaced" into his vitae (you might even say the vampire has to force his vitae to "flow" in a way that doesn't come natural to it, like when you let a little trickle of water run down a hill and try to use the palm of your hand to force the water over the hill so it flows over the other side.).

Offline Friktion

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Re: Disciplines Learning Curve
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2011, 11:06:13 PM »
Ah that's a good point Isador, I never though of disciplines that way.