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Author [EN] [PL] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: Unofficial Patch 9.9 released!  (Read 14534 times)

Offline Acleacius

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Re: Unofficial Patch 9.9 released!
« Reply #210 on: January 04, 2018, 06:10:15 AM »
So while you 'can' kill in combat zones, that doesn't changes the rules of what constitutes a Humanity bonus or penalty.

Yes, but the game handles it that way automatically. In a combat zone no kill ever gives a Humanity loss! If I add some in via Python, you can end up with the player being able to reach Humanity zero, again due to technical limitations...

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So if you spare an innocent, you receive a bonus and if you kill an innocent, you get a penalty.

No, you only ever get one of them. Otherwise each Humanity decision would be worth two points!

Yes, defiantly no Zero'ing out in combat, that would suck. Yet, I'm still confused, so I'll check it next time I play. I'm talking about quests though and could swear we get Humanity during quests, good or bad.

I've never seen it, happen where someone could get two positive or two negative Humanity. I.e. Carson, when he's in the cell we could free him for Humanity bonus or an evil player could exploit him for cash (threaten to kill him if he doesn't get $200 cash from his atm). I'm just making this up as I go, the point is how could someone get two points from an npc, who gives Humanity bonus or penalty? If this is an example of the technical limitations you mentioned, then yeah that would suck.
Trust me, most of the names I have been called you can't translate in any language...they're not even real words as much as a succession of violent images.

Offline SeKaLoR

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Re: Unofficial Patch 9.9 released!
« Reply #211 on: January 07, 2018, 03:13:02 PM »
Wesp, when i try to do the Beach House quest to retrieve the Astrolite, i dont have any money envelope in the cigar box. Im using the 9.9 patch (playing Brujah, i used persuasion to get inside the house) and i already restarted the game and reloading from a different save, the cigar box is empty.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 03:17:44 PM by SeKaLoR »

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Unofficial Patch 9.9 released!
« Reply #212 on: January 07, 2018, 04:20:10 PM »
Wesp, when i try to do the Beach House quest to retrieve the Astrolite, i dont have any money envelope in the cigar box.

Can you check the console for any Python errors and post them here?

Offline SeKaLoR

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Re: Unofficial Patch 9.9 released!
« Reply #213 on: January 07, 2018, 04:26:22 PM »
I went berserk mode and uninstalled the game xD. Tommorow ill try to install it again and see if the bug will happen again. I've seen im not the only one who got this glitch....

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Unofficial Patch 9.9 released!
« Reply #214 on: January 07, 2018, 09:49:30 PM »
You were playing a Brujah right? In that case I found the problem and will release a hotfixed 9.9 tomorrow if possible...

Offline SCO

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Re: Unofficial Patch 9.9 released!
« Reply #215 on: January 13, 2018, 05:33:02 AM »
Wesp: if you have a way to inflict humanity loss on npc death from python even if the combat map doesn't automatically do it for you, you can easily guard against reaching zero or giving more than one humanity loss per map. It's simple code against a global variable per affected level:

global G.MAPS_HUMLOSS = [ name_of_map:0, ...etc]
def subtract_humanity():
    name_of_map = getNameOfMapSomehow()
    if name_of_map in G.MAPS_HUMLOSS and not G.MAPS_HUMLOSS[name_of_map]:
        G.MAPS_HUMLOSS[name_of_map] = 1
        <actual code to subtract humanity once>

Finding the right way to trigger code on npc death and worse, a certain type of npc death might be difficult though. Maybe with a parameter to pass the npc class.

That's why i suggested a humanity loss for each 'needless' death of a cop at a break, or civilian 'bloodbags' in was possible. Now there is the argument that those humanity losses shouldn't happen because the cop shots first and 'you're just defending yourself'.

I find this argument unconvincing.


BTW does the bum at the warehouse and the girl at the brotherhood of the ninth circle give humanity loss if killed?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 05:46:44 AM by SCO »

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Unofficial Patch 9.9 released!
« Reply #216 on: January 13, 2018, 08:51:03 AM »
Wesp: if you have a way to inflict humanity loss on npc death from python even if the combat map doesn't automatically do it for you, you can easily guard against reaching zero or giving more than one humanity loss per map.

EntenSchreck pointed me to a much easier way indicating that Troika actually planned to do something like this! There is an unused flag called "AlwaysInnocent", if this is set you get a Humanity loss for a NPC even in a combat area and it is protected against reaching zero too! I have set it for NPCGeneric, Bums, Hookers and BlueBloods in 10.0 now...

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BTW does the bum at the warehouse and the girl at the brotherhood of the ninth circle give humanity loss if killed?

Of course.

Offline J3ster

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Re: Unofficial Patch 9.9 released!
« Reply #217 on: January 13, 2018, 09:24:40 AM »
No, what about my blue blood bum prostitute killing rampages?!

I don't think there's a lot of cases when that's necessary, though. Giovanni mansion is cleared after you go down the basement or if  you assault your way in. SM Warehouse bum already gave you HL, as well as clinic guard.

Offline SCO

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Re: Unofficial Patch 9.9 released!
« Reply #218 on: January 13, 2018, 10:04:24 AM »
Wesp: if you have a way to inflict humanity loss on npc death from python even if the combat map doesn't automatically do it for you, you can easily guard against reaching zero or giving more than one humanity loss per map.

EntenSchreck pointed me to a much easier way indicating that Troika actually planned to do something like this! There is an unused flag called "AlwaysInnocent", if this is set you get a Humanity loss for a NPC even in a combat area and it is protected against reaching zero too! I have set it for NPCGeneric, Bums, Hookers and BlueBloods in 10.0 now...

Honestly? I wanted this for cops, but obviously, it would need a more strict restriction such as 'only happens once per map'. I guess this is me getting too serious about a game but i can't conceive that for example, you breaking into kamikaze zen, then killing the guard cop there isn't worth a humanity loss, even if the cop shoots first. Same thing for the library (since it's a optional quest) but maybe not the museum, and Dane (since you're forced into that situation by the prince though it's better to be consistent and depend on the paragraph below).

And of course, if you're already at 'sub 4 humanity', then you probably already don't think much of cop lives so i'm fine with a limit that is bigger than zero. Even 6 or 5.

But whatever, if the other innocents are covered by the patch it's already something better.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 10:10:50 AM by SCO »

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Unofficial Patch 9.9 released!
« Reply #219 on: January 13, 2018, 03:19:59 PM »
Hm, with your kind of attitude, what kill would not merit a humanity loss? There wouldn't be much left besides ghouls and vampires attacking you, after all any other humans only do their job...

Offline SCO

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Re: Unofficial Patch 9.9 released!
« Reply #220 on: January 14, 2018, 08:14:15 AM »
Their job to be a criminal or a paramilitary unit. Granted, the hunters are only 'guilt-free' targets because they're just hostile to vampires (you) whenever they find them in the context of the lore. Unlike policemen, where they're 'there' because 'you' are not supposed to be, and killing them in self-defense is a bit facetious (if ostensibly sensible in-game because they straight up shoot you down in the game).

Speaking in hypotheticals, if the game was done today and i had influence in the design, i'd support a sliding scale of innocence:

a humanity loss from killing would only occur depending on the victim:
  • monsters - no penalty (this is ofc, 'game monsters' not high humanity vampires)
  • hunters 8 humanity turns into 7 humanity, no effect otherwise
  • cops      8-7 humanity loses 1, at 6 and onwards no effect
  • everyone else 8-5 loses 1, at 4 and onwards no effect
  • scripted events and dlgs of mmhawaw, chaotic stupid evil can stlll affect the whole 1-8 'still human' range, so something more than gameplay murder is needed to get to 3. Except if you kill children or something.
  • game over - like p&p - if you ever reach 0 humanity. Troika pussied out on this ofc. Maybe chose one of the Sabatt paths instead at this point instead of game over and be locked into being a edgy shit

The current system does have the virtue of being instantly understandable to any player, so i don't mind it too much besides the 'implications'.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 10:08:46 AM by SCO »

 

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