Unofficial Patch 9.6 beta released!

[Corriguinech]

Acleacius, most low-gen are powerful elders counting centuries whom ancilla such as Lacroix wouldn't dare to openly oppose. They would sire as they please, only sending the young Prince a courtesy note about the newest childe of theirs.
Our Sire was nobody, about as painfully young as we are and had no one to protect them, this made all the difference. Was s/he a misbegotten progeny of an Anarch that fell in the war with Kuei-Jin? Was s/he a disposable tool? Was s/he a defector from the Pyramid? Was s/he a childe of uncaring Elder that sired on a lark and threw childer away? We'd never know and I reckon their Sire, if still alive, would like to keep it that way.

Hmm, speaking of the last one, once upon a time there was this bastard flaw you could take which stated that you had made an unapproved childe and thus had a potential death sentence on you and your childe. The flaw could've been taken many times. Embrace sleeping human and disappear into the night et voilà, free points for character creation and no threat for your head. Take the flaw several times if you want more free points. The storyteller might hold a grudge though. It's plugged by now; farewell, fun times of a bastard pack pursuing resident power-player. Alternatively, you could raise the childer in secret, move from the state you sired them at, and field a party on your own that is blood-bound to you and wouldn't dissent or bicker as much as your friends do.

Thanks for the rep, but it is quite unnecessary, as I've never bothered to figure how it works seeing as it affects nothing.

Wesp5, yes, the claws could deal aggravated damage. There are ways - special material, Thaumaturgy (even Jack knows Thaumaturgy - that's how useful it is), Vicissitude, Essence or Discipline imbuement, graft of a tissue that has such an effect, something unique to Grout - he made a room with sunlight-like effect if that wasn't your doing. On the same note, know that as a general rule ghouls are as much or more vulnerable to fire than common humans. The ghouls of Grout become more dangerous, won't stop burning and appear to be entirely unaffected by being on fire that would kill any human or vampire for a reason. There is a Dementation power that causes both human and vampire targets to enter the state of uncontrollable panic at the mere sight of a fire that I imagine would work well with fireproof ghouls, too.

Already cautious by nature Grout fully expected Lacroix try to kill him, and had an ample time to observe and analyse the Prince's offensive habits, that is, sending in Sheriff and vampire machine-gunners in armoured leather coats; he had the time to learn of the most efficient ways of killing vampires, that is, fire and aggravated melee damage to speak in game terms. Of course he hadn't foreseen a slippery infiltrator of entirely different species ghosting right past all of his anti-vampire and anti-mortal precautions and killing him in his daily sleep. Ming Xiao even knew enough to restrain sleeping Grout before attempting to kill him and avoided a fatal mistake that had ended the unlives of many would-be diablerists and assassins.

Would you like to hear another conjectural theory on why it was so easy for us to get in? I hypothesize that Grout had connected all of his Ghouls to himself via one of the more insidious aspects of Dementation, for all intents and purposes making them networked being controlled by Grout, who would not only know everything his ghouls would see, hear and feel, but also would be able to channel disciplines through them, via Auspex becoming even more hyperaware than such a state made him already. And most importantly of all, it would have made Grout just as capable of reacting to attack at day, when his body was asleep and vulnerable. When Grout was killed the feedback broke his ghouls, making them single-mindedly weep, giggle, walk in circles and yank the chandeliers. Of course this theory has no game ground whatsoever, but it would explain why we met no opposition that was meant to deter invading vampires and why the mansion is filled with ghouls that aren't locked up and all seem to be affected with the same brand of terminal mental failure.

[Acleacius]

Yeah, don't think it means anything other than extra cookies at the end of each week ... thanks for all the interesting and helpful info Corriguinech 

Thanks Corriguinech, it's some really good info, we have had many discussions around here about how Grout might have been expecting Nines. Or at least had heard Nines opposed LaCriox and possibly sought an alliance with the Anarchs for protection. Though Nines never brings this up afaik. Nor do I know what skills the Kuei Jin have, so she could have easily gotten to Grout without the Nines disguise.

Wesp, Dragon's Breath shows up after speaking to LaCroix. LaCroix is always the last stop for me. Any chance you can change the Dragon's Breath to appear once we return from Society of Leopold, not after LaCroix? Or maybe let me know how I can change my own.

[Corriguinech]

Grout might have been expecting Nines. Or at least had heard Nines opposed LaCriox and possibly sought an alliance with the Anarchs for protection. Though Nines never brings this up afaik. Nor do I know what skills the Kuei Jin have, so she could have easily gotten to Grout without the Nines disguise.

Possible. Unlikely. Everything I know about Malkavians and the Kuei-Jin indicates that Grout would've seen through such a disguise even disregarding the chorus of voices that would howl in his head about what this "Nines" is and what it had came to do. Even silence of the voices would be very telling. Even if that was real Nines  in his heightened paranoia Grout wouldn't trust him enough to welcome him into his mansion. "Nines" act was all for us, or rather for Lacroix to frame real Nines.
Besides, Grout was killed in his bed, his body shackled to it. He must have been asleep when the deed happened. Theory - Ming Xiao came in the night and hid somewhere inside till day, used her abilities to get to Grout undetected, shackled him, imbued the stake with chi, staked Grout, slid out and hid somewhere by the exit, waiting for the night and you.

On the Kuei-Jin's infiltration... A vampire with Auspex or Dementate can easily see through any disguise the Kuei-Jin can make. There are advanced Kuei-Jin abilities that, with lots of limitations, allow them to teleport, turn incorporeal and shapeshift. Nothing that a vampire of a certain clan couldn't do, but Grout had expected to detect and counter vampiric blood-based disciplines, not chi-based disciplines of the Cathayan.

[Acleacius]

Thanks Corriguinech, yeah those high level powers seem damn impressive!

Wesp, has there been any changes to the Griffith Park, Bloodhunt and Final Choice... if not, going to start a Tremere game?

Edit: Wesp I meant to ask back during 9.5 but what's the deal with Dominate level 3 Sleep, I can't feed or interact, is it a bug on my end or intentional, if so why?

Thanks

[Wesp5]

Wesp, has there been any changes to the Griffith Park, Bloodhunt and Final Choice... if not, going to start a Tremere game?

Yes, the Ming ending has been improved in subtle details, otherwise I think no. But you might wait for the final, as it will have some new weapons!

Wesp I meant to ask back during 9.5 but what's the deal with Dominate level 3 Sleep, I can't feed or interact, is it a bug on my end or intentional, if so why?

You need to ask EntenSchreck this, he changed the disciplines. Either there is a PnP version of this or he just wanted to have enemies completely out of a fight.

[Malkyjeff]

These unofficial patches (especially the plus versions) gets better and better.

[Corriguinech]

Wesp I meant to ask back during 9.5 but what's the deal with Dominate level 3 Sleep, I can't feed or interact, is it a bug on my end or intentional, if so why?

You need to ask EntenSchreck this, he changed the disciplines. Either there is a PnP version of this or he just wanted to have enemies completely out of a fight.

I've thought we had gone over the issue already and concluded that EntenSchreck put back redundant spare animations without much care for PnP or game-play, no? Which is nice, but would've been better if he simply randomized effects of the first dot.

PnP-wise even the first level of Dominate allows you to put the target to sleep or force it to perform pretty much any simple (as it is one word per blood point Discipline) action you want. But unless you possess a form of telepathy you must look target in the eye and speak clearly to use the Dominate. Deaf and blind are invulnerable to the first dot of Dominate. The second dot allows you to implant a thought, an urge, a hypnotic suggestion, even highly complicated instructions straight into a target mind and requires merely an eye contact. However, only one such suggestion can be placed in the target mind, so you might be out of luck when fighting someone enthralled by another user. No 'direct' orders to suicide either, although you can order a snivelling child (that is, a toddler, not a fledgeling) attack a frenzied Stargazer Metis Ahroun (take death machine from Griffith Park, magnify it by an order of magnitude), for example. Or have them fetch a mirror from under working thresher, as Gary had put it.

Keep in mind that the success of any Dominate depends on your mental and social stats such as Manipulation, Intimidation, Wits, etc. The main drawback of Dominate is that you can't dominate those of lower generation than you (however there's a lot of ways to bypass this particular limitation, both easiest and most efficient of which belong to Tremere). And you can bet that any relatively senior to you vampire that had bothered to develop any mental Discipline or merely has enough willpower would throw it off with ease even if they were more than five generations higher than you.

Also don't forget that you still need an eye contact unless you have a form of telepathy. Which Ventrue thankfully do not have, and that is another reason why Tremere or Tzimisce could be far, far more dangerous with Dominate if they bother to invest in their social stats (you can bet your life their mental stats would be higher than yours). Also because Tremere can neatly supplement it with magic and Tzimisce can make an eye-catching glowing eye anywhere they want and tend to speak with absolute authority.

[mat-th-ew]

Hi, glad to see Bloodlines is still kept updated, congrats Wesp. I'm an Italian fan of the game and I'd like to give it a proper translation, anyone can explain me where I should begin from?

[Wesp5]

I've thought we had gone over the issue already and concluded that EntenSchreck put back redundant spare animations without much care for PnP or game-play, no?

Basically you are right, but EntenSchreck for some reason never added sleep to be one of the random results the Command disciplines which would have been easy. So I suspect he got some hints that Troika planned something seperate. But I don't really know...

[Wesp5]

I'm an Italian fan of the game and I'd like to give it a proper translation, anyone can explain me where I should begin from?

Contact me via email or PM and I can provide you with the archive of the upcoming UP 9.6 final, which would the best start.

[Corriguinech]

Basically you are right, but EntenSchreck for some reason never added sleep to be one of the random results the Command disciplines which would have been easy. So I suspect he got some hints that Troika planned something seperate. But I don't really know...

I conjecture that it was a spare three-dot form of Trance, made for the chance of devs having enough time to properly implement first two dots. Again, the first two dots of the PnP are Command (one-word order) and Mesmerize (putting a complicated thought/urge/order straight into the target mind), which are signature powers of Dominate. Whereas the third one, The Forgetful Mind, is, basically, a memory extraction, removal and edition tool. Very useful in the PnP, useless in the FPS. Begging to be replaced by anything, even Sleep.

Addenum: the fourth dot of the PnP is Conditioning. Over time it makes the target more susceptible to your will and influence while strengthening it resistance to will and influence of others. Again, very useful in prolonged PnP campaign, useless in one night FPS special. The fifth dot of the PnP is Possession, which is taking some body for a joyride. The things it most productively could be used for is to move around and oversee crucial operations in the daylight or for the suicide missions that for whatever reason you can't entrust to anyone else; don't forget to leave the body before it dies. You're able to use your Disciplines, even. Imagine all those fun assignments that may very well get you killed for nothing undertaken in the light of the day by some disposable trash or Heather. Even if you'd limit the Discipline to be used only on your missions it has enough potential to completely wreck the cutscenes.

Troika had to adapt a social discipline to FPS without either overpowering it (the first dot of PnP can do far more than fifth dot of your patch) or making it useless (as it is still a social Discipline that requires an eye contact). And nigh no time for putting the game together, much less implementing the proper Discipline mechanics. All things considered a wonder it turned as well as it did given how rushed it was and how many outside problems they've encountered.

[Acleacius]

In regards to the Dominate and Dementation disciplines, maybe we could return them to the way they were but make new 5th level.  I really don't like them as they are atm and if understand Corriguinech correctly 5th level probably should go back to being an AoE, even being an AoE of the dot 1 would be better.

I don't mind waiting to play the end sections till later but what did you mean by, Final?

Edit: If your not comfortable switching back to the original Troika Dominate and Dementation, what was the last BUP with default disciplines? I should be able to download and use those...maybe add a few edits too.

[Wesp5]

I don't mind waiting to play the end sections till later but what did you mean by, Final?

The current 9.6 is a beta release, as I only have one internal beta tester left, so very soon I will include all the fixes discussed here and release the 9.6 final version!

If your not comfortable switching back to the original Troika Dominate and Dementation, what was the last BUP with default disciplines?

You can already select to only have the old disciplines during the patch installation!

[Acleacius]

The current 9.6 is a beta release, as I only have one internal beta tester left, so very soon I will include all the fixes discussed here and release the 9.6 final version!

Sent an invite on Steam, teally wish I could help more, my brain needs to recharge after playing this too much. I've only switched over to a Steam install in the last 6 months and creeping near 150 hours. I'd hate to see the last 12 years on Bloodlines, would easily be over 1500 hours.  :faint:

You can already select to only have the old disciplines during the patch installation!

Completely forgot about Basic since I've never used it! 

[Wesp5]

Completely forgot about Basic since I've never used it! 

That's not about the basic patch. You can deselect some plus features as there were complains or they contain specific non Troika content, like the wolf warform model and eyes...