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Offline Zer0Morph

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VTM: The Final Nights (Team Camarilla International)
« on: June 12, 2010, 03:43:05 PM »
Dear Camarilla Edition Fans,

Well it looks like Team Camarilla International is back at it again. With the success of the Camarilla Edition series of mods we are proud to introduce our latest expansion for the Bloodlines game. Now normally we aren't known for publicly releasing information on an expansion so early in the works, but we are just too excited to keep this new project a secret any longer. This thread will be your gateway to all information pertaining to the "The Final Nights" expansion so feel free to leave questions and ideas here. We now also have a forum dedicated to TFN which is linked directly to the Camarilla Edition forum so stop over for the latest news. The forum can be found at CamarillaEdition.DarkBB.com and we even have a live chat room where you can talk to other members directly.

We hope you're as excited with this project as we are, stay tuned...



One of the first things you may notice in the title is that the "B" is missing from VTMB, this is not an accident. The Final Nights is an expansion to an otherwise flawless video game built upon the success of the Camarilla Edition series of mods. The "B" has been removed because this expansion can no longer bare the name Bloodlines as it is so far removed from the original game as to warrant the name change. The idea behind this expansion is, and always will be the notion of a completely new experience unlike we've seen so far.

With 7 completely brand new clans, 5 new disciplines, extra quests, re-written dialogue for the new clans, new music and modified maps, the features seem endless. All of this is being built upon the Camarilla Edition series incorporating such things as the blood timer system, pedestrian blood dolls, and the new combat system. Combined we feel the name Bloodlines must be removed from this game, and thus we now simply have "The Final Nights".

Below are some of the features of VTM: The Final Nights 1.0. (All features are subject to change)

All features included in Camarilla Edition Ver. 1.2

7 Brand New Clans
Assamite - Vizier caste, Scholars and Artists, Diablerists
Baali - Evil demon worshippers, corrupters of souls
Followers of Set - Usurpers, use serpent charms
Ishtarri - African clan of gluttons, information gatherers
Osebo - Violent warriors of Laibon, quick to frenzy
Salubri - Noble healers and warriors of the righteous
Samedi - Rotting, stinking undead, good assassins

5 Brand New Disciplines
Daimoinon - Discipline of devil worship which specializes in the corrupting of souls and infernal combat
Obeah - Healing for both body and soul, greater control of the beast and other various effects
Quietus - Grants influence over the blood of others, Assassin based discipline known by the Assamites
Serpentis - The Setites core discipline, can use to charm others and take the form of their god Set
Thanatosis - A truly disturbing discipline which involves manipulating effects of death and decomposition

All Brand New PC Model skins
More to come on this...

Brand New NPCs
- Akeem the Assamite Vizier
Meet Akeem the Assamite Vizier who's come to LA seeking certain relics of interest. This 400 year old Kindred can be a friend or foe depending on how you address him. He is one of the Research Book sellers, will tell you all about the 7 new TFN clans in detail, and will even give you Side Quests to expand your adventure. He is fully interactive in every way including brand new dialogue and voice files designed and spoken by our Writer/Voice Actor 'Scarecrow'.
More to come on this...

Enhanced/Brand New Quests
- Inquisitors know too much
This is a brand new quest given to the player by Akeem and involves Hunters in downtown LA.
- Hot Stripper Assassin Action
This quest has been remade in that now Chastity is the leader of a small squad of hunters.
- Society for the Preservation of Professors
This quest has been remade in that Grunfeld Bach has additional support in final battle.
- Poster Quest
The Poster Quest from Wesp's Unofficial Patches has been removed.
- Potential to earn more XP than before
More to come on this...

Stealth
Stealth has been revamped and is now much harder and realistic. We have received alot of complaints at how easy the Stealth skill is to use and how you can hide right in front of enemies at a low level, so we adjusted the levels making it much more realistic. No longer can you hide in plain sight at level 4, now you must stick to the shadows.

Humanity/Frenzy
- Murder will drop your Humanity to a minimum of 3
- You can lose Humanity for acts such as threatening, stealing, corrupting, and many other vile deeds
- Those with low Humanity will succumb to frenzy much faster than before

Bartering System
The bartering system and research books are being handled differently in TFN. Research books are no longer found, but purchased instead. The bartering skill has been completely revamped making it a very viable option to build your character around, and purchase unlimited research books using money and your bartering skill. No longer is barter a waste of XP and no longer will you find yourself heading straight for the research books right at the beginning of the game which seems to break immersion of roleplaying. You will now find research books sellable by new fully voiced and interactive NPCs scattered throughout the main zones, created specifically for TFN.

New opening cut scenes
The entire opening scene has been changed to fit the new clans. All of the player models have been taken from the crowd and LaCroix now has personal henchmen doing his dirty work. Some minor voice work and lip movements of LaCroix will need to be changed as well.

Music/DJs
More to come on this...

Hunters
- Society of Leopold Hunters are much tougher, with better weapons, tactics, and the use of Numina
- Masquerade Violation Level 1 summons hunters
- Female and Average hunters have been reskinned

Re-written Dialogue
More to come on this...

Bug Fixes left over from CE 1.2
- Fixed misspelling of Fortitude description
- Fixed camera view buttons to make more sense
- Fixed unclear description of Tawni Quest
- Fixed Skelter's eyes, should've been Gangrel
More to come on this...
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 07:36:40 PM by Zer0Morph »



Offline Zer0Morph

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Discipline Huds
I thought I would first start by showing you the new discipline huds I created. It took awhile to get them exactly right but I'm very happy with how they turned out. They light up great in the game and look like they were in the original.



Discipline: Daimoinon
Ok now for the first completed discipline in the set. Daimoinon is a diabolic discipline practiced only by the Baali and few other Kindred of the worst kind. Its foul powers are devoted to tapping the dark forces of existance and corrupting the souls of others. Men of faith have defense against this discipline.

Here is a screenshot of the character sheet


Tier 1: Blood of the Sinner - There isn't really much to show here. When activated you gain extra blood when feeding on those who have led meaningless lives, such as bums and hookers. There is a neat little effect when you activate it and while it's running you will see embers float around the character.





Tier 2: Rest for the Wicked - This power puts a temporary curse or hex on the victim making them pass out immediately. The effect is really sweet as the victim stands in the middle of a pentagram with candle style flames surround them.





Tier 3: Conflagration - This is where things really heat up (literally). Conflagration allows the Baali to shoot fireballs from his hands doing aggravated fire damage. The effect is totally freakin awesome and the person stands there and tries to put themselves out which usually takes about 3-5 seconds, until that time they sit there and burn and take damage.







Tier 4: Infernal Servitor - This awesome power allows the Baali to open up a portal under the victim and summon a demon to kill them. When the portal opens, a fierce wind and hot embers will swirl about the victim and a demon's face will rise from the portal. There are several different demons who will appear and will kill the victim in different ways and is totally random as to which demon will appear.









Tier 5: Concordance - Though all of the previous tiers are super fun to play and have awesome graphic and sound FX, Concordance is the true reason to play a Baali. You have achieved the perfect commune with evil and can now summon devils to enter your body and grant you their incredible power. When a demonic entity enters your body you will burst into flames doing aggravated fire damage with your melee attacks. The demon will also take any damage suffered first, before you take any damage working as a buffer. The FX are simply insane with this power and I can't wait to get videos so you can see it more clearly.












Offline Zer0Morph

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Discipline: Serpentis
Ok now for the second completed discipline in the set. Serpentis is the trademark discipline of the Followers of Set clan. It primarily provides shapechanging abilities, though it also encompasses charms and other characteristics associated with snakes. The Setites are very protective of this discipline.

Here is a screenshot of the character sheet


Tier 1: Eyes of the Serpent - This is your basic Dominate: Trance effect but with obviously new graphics and sound. When cast you will hear an Indian flute playing in a mesmerizing tone along with snake hissing and a rattler, its a pretty cool effect.







Tier 2: Breathe the Sandstorm - This power is ALOT of fun to play. First the character breathes out a large amount of hot scorching sand, and that it begins to swirl into a massive storm around the victims. It's pretty short ranged but is fantastic when surrounded, and it even does a small amount of damage.





Tier 3: Apep's Semblance - Your first true shapeshifting ability. I was originally going to create "Form of the Cobra" instead but I couldn't find a good cobra model to use, so I chose to use the Tier 8 ability Apep's Semblance which is a half human half snake hybrid form. Obviously I reskinned the Warform and removed any instance of it in the game so you won't find other Kindred using Apep's Semblance. While in this form, you gain extra strength and bonuses to your soak feats, but most of all you will deal aggravated damage. Snake hissing and rattler sounds play in the background while in this form for a very cool effect.







I just liked this picture because a Cop is pointing his Glock right at the Serpents face, lol. (He's about to bite it off! :)


Tier 4: Phobia - I wanted 1 more mind affecting discipline in the set, being that Serpentis is the only mind affecting discipline now that Dementation and Domination are gone. Phobia was the answer, this ability not only is a mass hold but also allows you to pounce on the victims without releasing them from their hold. They just stand there cowaring in fear while you beat on them, the sound effect is also alot of fun, hearing the screams of fear and worry, how evil! :)







Tier 5: Heart of Anubis - Ok this is the cream of the crop of all disciplines, comparable to Daimainon's Concordance ability. With Heart of Anubis you literally rip your own heart out of your chest and place it in your inventory for safe keeping. Powerful Setites are known for doing this because it makes them immune to staking and nearly indestructable. Though you are incredibly hard to kill when you remove your heart, you remove all but 1 blood point as well making other discipline use impossible. Once you put your heart back in by canceling the power, you will gain the original blood you had back as well. Also while the heart is removed, you no longer are subject to blood loss. When you open your inventory while this discipline is active, you while find your heart waiting for you as an inventory item. I found shapeshifting into Apep's Semblance then removing your heart is a very powerful discipline combo. 



It's so cool watching him clutch his chest in pain...



Offline Zer0Morph

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Discipline: Thanatosis
Ok now for the third completed discipline in the set. Thanatosis meaning "death" and -osis meaning "state of disease", is the exclusive discipline of the Samedi bloodline. Thanatosis involves manipulating effects of death and decomposition, and is in some ways similar to Necromancy.

Here is a screenshot of the character sheet


Tier 1: Infection - Infection is your basic single target debuff discipline. For Kine, the infection simply reduces all of their combat Feats by -10 for 20 seconds. For Kindred, it effects them in both penalty and time for 1/2 the amount. It's hard to show the awesome graphics and sound that goes with this ability, but trust me, the oozing bubbles and dark greenish/black gas makes this a favorite.







Tier 2: Necrosis - The next two disciplines are by far my favorites in the entire set. This discipline actively drains the victim of their Stamina and gives it to you for the next 60 seconds. Each target will vary in Stamina therefore varying the amount drained, so you may drain 3, 4, or maybe even 5 Stamina for the next 60 seconds. When you activate the discipline on the target, a large ball of diseased goo fires from the victim and hits you with a large "Splat" sound. At that point you will actively drip dark green slime as long as the discipline is in effect, and the target in turn will also drip the same goo signifying that they are the one that was effected.











Tier 3: Enervation - This discipline is just like Necrosis, except it targets the victim's Strength instead of Stamina. Just like Necrosis, you can watch as a ball of goo flies across the screen and you absorb the victim's Strength. Instead of green diseased goo dripping, this time a diseased aura with bubbles will form around your hands for the next 60 seconds, and in turn will form around the target that was effected. Enervation and Necrosis together make a great combo and can quickly make your Samedi extremely dangerous in melee combat.









Tier 4: Contagion - This next discipline is incredible useful for debuffing a large group of enemies at once. I played around with this and it was a life saver in many situations. It basically mimics what Infection does except not only does it last 30 seconds instead of 20, but also effects everyone in a large radius. The only drawback is because of the potency of the infection and the fact that its so contagious, it does cost blood to use.





Tier 5: Compress - This discipline is not for the feint hearted, and the screenshots clearly show this. This discipline allows the Samedi to shrink the skin of the target until the pressure gets so great that they explode. When used, you can hear bones cracking, skin stretching, and organs mashing. If you're into gore, blood, and guts then you'll love this discipline. 










Offline Zer0Morph

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Roster Update
Ok, here is the new official roster complete with everything needed for a new clan. It took some time moving everything around, getting rid of the True Brujah and setting up the Assamite Viziers instead. But it's all set now so I thought I'd show a pic.

Discipline: Obeah
First off I wanted everyone to know that I made another important change and this is final. Valeren will not be in "The Final Nights", instead I decided to go with my original idea of using Obeah. I did this in an attempt to preserve the "Healer" aspect of the character, not to be confused with the Warriors or Sabbat based Salubri Antitribu that typically use Valeren. Both disciplines are strangely similiar but one is on the defensive side and the other is more offensive. These disciplines are mostly defensive in nature. I hope everyone approves...

Obeah focuses on the ability to restore lost vitality and cleanse individuals of taints to both the body and the soul. Greater knowledge means advancing the path to Golconda. Use causes the third eye to open violating the Masquerade if used in safe areas.

Here is a screenshot of the character sheet


Tier 1: Sense Vitality - Tier 1 sets the stage for the entire discipline, when using Sense Vitality your vision will change so you can see in the dark, and you will be able to see the auras of everyone around you. Red to Yellowish auras reflect non-supernatural NPCs while blue to purpleish auras will reflect supernatural beings. You will also permeate neat little lightning effects which grow stronger as you advance in Obeah.



Tier 2: Warding the Beast - As you further near Golconda your character will gain even greater control of the Beast receiving a +2 to all frenzy checks. This ability stacks with the Salubri innate advantage of +2 to all frenzy checks, it will be rare for your character to frenzy while using this discipline which is huge in TFN. The lightning effects will also increase slightly.



Tier 3: Renewed Vigor - This is where Obeah really starts to pay off. Tier 3 grants you a deep blue healing aura that surrounds your character granting them constant healing. The extra healing is slightly slower than Bloodheal but not by much, and of course stacks with every other benefit from every other Tier. A wicked beam of light shoots down from heaven when activating this discipline and you can see the neat aura as well.





Tier 4: Anesthetic Touch - Stacked with all of the other bonuses from previous Tiers, Anesthetic Touch really tops the cake. This ability allows the Salubri to block pain effectively granting a +3 bonus to all soak feats. These are not automatic soaks like when using Fortitude, but instead grant bonuses similiar to wearing extremely armored clothing. When activating this discipline, lightning will shoot from the heavens over your character for a seriously awesome effect.







Tier 5: Wrath of Heaven - The finishing touch to an otherwise perfect discipline. Wrath of Heaven has achieved the pinnacle of the Obeah discipline and has reached Golconda and perfect harmony. While in spiritual perfection the Kindred may summon the fury of heaven that will increase all Unarmed and Melee combat feats by +3. The lightning effect while surround the players hands and blue shocks waves will hit the ground when activating this ability.







New Opening Scenes
I'm really excited to show this off, because my internet was down all weekend I wasn't able to work on the things I wanted too. Instead I thought I'd begin work on the beginning cut scenes of the game which was something I was saving for later, but hey there's no time like the present.

Many new features are present with the new opening scenes. First off, I took all of the PC models out of the audience because I didn't want Non-Camarilla members at the intial meeting. Why would a Setite show up for a Camarilla beheading right? Secondly I didn't want the PC models involved with the beheading either for the same reason, and since I'm using the Ventrue PC models for the Setites, those had to be replaced too. So I went ahead and grabbed humans in suits and made them Vampires, which will serve as Lacroix's new henchmen. In fact, I like the models and skins so well I'm thinking about putting these 2 guys into the game as possible enemies you will have to fight, maybe in the Ventrue tower, as mini-bosses. There are also now mixed in with the Primogen scene as well, and I will place them in all scenes appropriately. Oh ya, and many new unique NPCs are now at the meeting that weren't there before.

This dude looks serious about his job.


HAHA, the stake is completely missing his hand, oh well, thanks Troika! :)


Lacroix's men are not to be trifled with.


You can see Mitnick sitting up in the stands, watching from a distance.


I found out Skelter was a Gangrel so naturally I gave him Gangrel style eyes. Oooohh spooky...


Beckett decided to join the party too, he wanted to watch the beheading of your sire.


Perfect shot of all 4 Ventrue a-holes. You may just need to fight them all, well not Lacroix of course, booo.


Another great shot of the new Ventrue thugs.


Who do we have here, is that Gary, and Imalia, and Beckett, all in the same shot? Sweet!

Offline Zer0Morph

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Sunrise Diner
I apologize for the length of time it took me to get this out. Last week I started my new IT job so that has taken alot of my time, no more 16 hrs per day spent on modding :(

Anyways, I didn't realize just how time consuming overhauling something as simple as the diner would be. Ok so here's what I did, first I obviously changed the name from "Surfside Diner" to "Sunrise Diner". Next I overhauled the entire from the painted walls to the upholstery of the booth, stools, and benches. Then I decided to liven it up a little by giving animations to all of the NPCs, like the male patron using a cell phone, and the girl patron now drinks a beer and walks over to the payphone. Even the killer stands with his arms crossed looking around. I replaced the cook to be the big fat guy you see as the bartender from "The Last Round". The biggest change was the radio I put on the counter, it plays 1950's oldies music that gets louder and softer depending on how close you are to it. It plays as background music but adds alot of atmosphere in my opinion.

Here are the screenshots!
















Offline Zer0Morph

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Discipline: Quietus
Ok now for the last completed discipline in the set. Quietus is the signature discipline of the Assamites that grants them influence over the blood of overs. Though each of the Assamite castes possesses Quietus as an in-clan discipline, it is primarily known for being an assassin's tool in the hands of the Warrior caste.

Here is a screenshot of the character sheet


Tier 1: Silence of Death - The most basic of the Quietus discipline and your first steps into a world of stealth. Silence of Death allows you to silent the area immediately around you granting you a +2 to sneaking. The graphic effect of dull red and black make this a neat discipline to use.







Tier 2: Quicken the Blood - Arguably the most helpful utility discipline in all of VtM. Quicken the Blood will cause a mortal to bleed from the skin and passout allowing the Kindred to feed freely. While the victim is passed out, the Vampire will gain extra blood from the victim.







Tier 3: Taste of Death - The only ranged attack in the set, Taste of Death allows the Kindred to spit acidic blood at a victim. The blood will begin to corrode the armor or clothing of the victim for the next 15 seconds granting a -3 penalty to defense, and all soaks feats while also doing minor damage. Awesome Power!





Tier 4: Baal's Caress - The ultimate assassin power, Baal's Caress allows the Vampire to coat any of his melee weapons with poison granting them extra damage. This ability does cost blood to use but the Kindred will be able to smite his foes down with ease while the poison is in effect.







Tier 5: Leech - Theft of Vitae step aside, here comes the grand daddy of all blood stealing disciplines. This ability allows the Assamite to draw blood through the skin of his victims. This effects everyone near the Vampire and is an obvious violation of the Masquerade. Their is no limit as to how many you may draw from at a time as long as they are near you, and you will receive 3 blood points per victim. This ability is great when you're swarmed with enemies and low on blood.






Offline Chip Boundary

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Hey, new poster in these forums but I've been a huge fan of VtM since the day it came it out and well before. I've been reading all your updates and such but I'm curious as to why you did not include Clan Tzimisce, Clan Giovanni (or Cappadocian since your reviving dead clans with the Salubri), or for that matter Clan Ravnos? Why not use those clans instead of clans that aren't from the core VtM lore and story. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who would kill to play a Tzimisce, Giovanni, or Ravnos. I'm not the hugest fan of clan Ravnos, but I think they are way underplayed! I saw your point about not doing the Lasombra which I feel is not the greatest reason to not do it. But hey I don't judge, I just enjoy the content. These are all questions for merely curiosities sake.

Also I'd like to make mention as an avid fan and player of the PnP game, Clan Gangrel is spread pretty evenly amongst all the factions....Camarilla, Sabbat, Anarchs, and Independants so you can easily place a Gangrel into just about any scene or crowd involving vamps. Gangrels tend to be used as the first line of offense/defense by the Sabbat and Camarilla.
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Offline Zer0Morph

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Hey Chip and welcome to the new PV.

The main reason we decided to stray away from the Tzimisce, Giovanni, and Lasombra was because there is already a mod being developed for these clans and we didn't want to duplicate their work. They seem to have a solid grasp on what they're doing with these clans and they had their mod set a year before we began working on ours, so we didn't want to step on their toes.

The reason why I strayed away from the Ravnos clan, which by the way is an awesome clan that I'd love to play, simply was because we ran out of discipline space for Chimestry. Between not being able to find a suitable model combined with discipline space made us ultimately run with the 7 clans you see now.

We originally thought about making City Gangrel a playable clan, but ultimately scratched it because, again, we needed the discipline space, and having Protean meant we couldn't have Serpentis. It's a pretty delicate balance that the Bloodlines engine makes us walk, I wish we had more freedom with it but you can only do what you can do.  :thanku:

Offline Chip Boundary

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Thank you for your timely response Zer0. As disappointed as I am to not see those clans in your mod I'm still very impressed with the work you've dun thus far and impressed even further still by your dedication to an old product. I like the revival you are putting into this much misunderstood and underappreciated game. Keep up the good work and I look forward to downloading and playing your final product.

If only Activision had given them more time and Troika had a few more talented people such as yourself on staff you wouldn't be having to do what your doing now and we'd have the product all of us VtM fans dream of. Keep living the dream man, and I'll keep playin' the mods.

P.S. I just dl'ed CE 1.3 and love it as well, good show on that one. I look forward to TFN.
"At no time is freedom of speech more precious to a man, than when he hits his thumb with a hammer." ~Ano Nymous

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Offline Zer0Morph

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Wow Chip! I really appreciate the encouragement man, it's posts like these that keep us modders going strong.

I know how you feel about the clans, I really wanted to create Obtenebration for the Lasombra, but Antitribu beat me to it. They seem to have done a pretty good job with it though so we'll see.

I also agree with the under-appreciated comment. To this day I still think Bloodlines and Redemption were 2 of the best RPGs ever to hit the shelves. I understand with all of the glitches that Bloodlines had at first (and before Wesp worked his magic) that people would shy away from the game. And I know that more people are into quick, mindless, games like Halflife 2, which was released about the same time Bloodlines was, to keep people from buying Bloodlines. But with all of the support in the community I hope this game never dies, and though I don't foresee another VtM game released anytime soon, I hope TFN can be a good substitute.

Offline Chip Boundary

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That was the frustrating part about all of it. Valve gave Troika the rights to use the Source engine for Bloodlines, but they wouldn't let them release it before Half-Life 2 was because it was their engine. Then when Half-Life 2 got released and it hit big Activision forced Troika to release the game prematurely. You can see it in the game, some parts are so beautifully rendered like the Haunted Hotel and the fight with the gargoyle in the theater where you could see the dust particles in the light that came in from the broken roof. But then you see an NPC walking around with a picture-based face on a fully rendered body. Or Venus inside of Confession where they did so well on her, then her cleavage and ass are just so poorly done it doesn't do the character justice.

I'm really still very frustrated by what Activision did. I honestly believe if they'd give them more time on the game it would've been epic and sold millions of copies. Who knows, maybe Troika wouldn't have closed it's doors. The world lost an amazing company when they closed up for good. Arcanum was an AMAZING game, if you haven't played it I recommend you do.
"At no time is freedom of speech more precious to a man, than when he hits his thumb with a hammer." ~Ano Nymous

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Offline YamiRaziel

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Today I made a little research. I just finished my KOTOR 2 playthrough and I decided to see if there are interesting mods about the KOTOR series. I found a good website and what do I see? Over two hundred mods. I checked most of them and realized that they are more of a skin change mods or small hotfixes. I'm pretty sure that KOTOR is a lot more easier to mod than Bloodlines. Most of the mods are like that and they even have tools which help them mod the game. Only one mod introduces new content similar to the best mods of Bloodlines. When I checked the team behind the mod.... they are over fifty people! Most of the Bloodlines mods are made by one or two guys!!!
So I wanted to say this.... Bloodlines modders, you are the best!

Offline Chip Boundary

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Amen Raziel, amen! I adore KOTOR and I love all the modded content, but I'd say I appreciate the content provided by the modders for Bloodlines MUCH more.
"At no time is freedom of speech more precious to a man, than when he hits his thumb with a hammer." ~Ano Nymous

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana." ~Ano Nymous

Offline Zer0Morph

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Man you guys are showing some MAJOR love in this thread, WOW I appreciate it!  :idhitit:

Actually I modded KOTOR and KOTOR II also, lol. I didn't like how short the durations were for the force powers so I extended them. After like 15 minutes I figured out
how to do everything I wanted to do. I must say, I've modded Oblivion, Fallout 3, NWN1 and 2, KOTOR etc... and by far the hardest game to mod still happens to be the
best RPG in history, BLOODLINES!

Ya know though, I'm kind've glad Bloodlines is such a biatch to mod, because now only the most dedicated nerds can do it, or at least do it well. I guess in a way it makes
us kind've special that there's no GECK creation program that practically does everything for you, it's all command line, numbers, and text files.  :thanku:

 

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