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Offline InTech

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #60 on: July 09, 2016, 11:51:23 pm »
Yes, but would a paranoid vampire invite others into his lair? We see that LaCroix normally invites the Primogen into Venture Tower. Even if he did, nobody would be surprised, he is a Malkavian after all!
Yes but then there is the Jyhad, information is power after all.
And knowledge of a Malkavians madness can give you power over them.
So what better way to defend your self than to create a partially false image that even you believe?

How about this: Kuei-Jin are shapeshifters. You didn't kill Ming, just one of her goons that looked like her. And LaCroix isn't dead as well, another shapeshifter took his place when you blew him up.

Perfectly reasonable but really how does this effect anything from a player perspective? And whether LaCroix dies in the Camarilla ending is unknown.
I just think Dr Grout would would be neat loose end to tie up in a sequel.

Well I think Wesp5 is right but if InTech wants to create a mod or Sequel to Bloodlines showing that Grout survived I wouldn't see any harm in that.

If I do it might be in the next Paradox/White Wolf game.
Still I do like the idea of a mod set in a single hub post-Gehenna world maybe a psychiatric research facility in the remote American Mid-West...

Offline Malkav

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #61 on: July 10, 2016, 06:17:21 am »
Yes, but would a paranoid vampire invite others into his lair? We see that LaCroix normally invites the Primogen into Venture Tower. Even if he did, nobody would be surprised, he is a Malkavian after all!
Yes but then there is the Jyhad, information is power after all.
And knowledge of a Malkavians madness can give you power over them.
So what better way to defend your self than to create a partially false image that even you believe?
And what does Grout know about the Jyhad? According to his recrodings he only learned about other vampires after the Camarilla moved in, more than 100 years after his embrace. And only then did his malkavian traits (insight, voices) manifest. And I strongly doubt that he admits the madness even to himself.

How about this: Kuei-Jin are shapeshifters. You didn't kill Ming, just one of her goons that looked like her. And LaCroix isn't dead as well, another shapeshifter took his place when you blew him up.

Perfectly reasonable but really how does this effect anything from a player perspective? And whether LaCroix dies in the Camarilla ending is unknown.
Perfectly reasonable? Sounds to me like one of the weakest excuses for bad storywriting I can imagine.
And the fate of LaCroix in the Cam ending is unknown? Hm, yes the cam is known for its generosity, so he probably gets a house on the beach and monthly income from the Camarilla Retirement Fund and his blood delivered by Vit Ex...
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Offline InTech

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #62 on: July 10, 2016, 01:51:38 pm »
And what does Grout know about the Jyhad? According to his recrodings he only learned about other vampires after the Camarilla moved in, more than 100 years after his embrace. And only then did his malkavian traits (insight, voices) manifest. And I strongly doubt that he admits the madness even to himself.
Well first of all he most likely embraced in 1954, second he just seems quite confabulated a lot of the time, take for example his understand of psychiatric medicine.
Freud's understanding of the human mind predates Lobotomy however in his mind Freud came second, that doesn't make any sense...
Unless you accept that he's confusing his opinion with his memory of events.
And that somewhat reduces the reliability of the recordings as evidence as well.

Perfectly reasonable? Sounds to me like one of the weakest excuses for bad storywriting I can imagine.
And the fate of LaCroix in the Cam ending is unknown?
You're right words 'reasonable' and 'realistic' don't make for good story writing but they can, be based on the writer.
Let's take LeCroix's survival for example, what if instead of just given a slap on the wrist he was given a nasty punishment that didn't involve the final death?
Say pressed into servitude into one of the Camarilla sub organizations like The Scourge. Perhaps using blood-magic as form of control that causes intense pain if he fails to tow the line.

Hm, yes the cam is known for its generosity, so he probably gets a house on the beach and monthly income from the Camarilla Retirement Fund and his blood delivered by Vit Ex...
That's pretty much what happened to Napoleon... Except without the blood, as far as I know anyway. :haw:
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 01:53:33 pm by InTech »

Online Acleacius

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #63 on: July 11, 2016, 10:40:52 pm »
This is pretty much the whole point of the thread, just getting the basic unlock of the game after the player's chosen ending. Then the ideas will come.

The fear and paranoia could have caused Grout to act. In general people run when afraid, so there is some possibility in the theory.

The idea of a Haven/Base as a start is pretty damn awesome all on it's own.   :rock:
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Offline FleshArtist

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #64 on: July 20, 2016, 05:09:26 am »
I believe that the most difficult case for Grout really having met his final death is the simple fact that he's a Malkavian, and as we all know, can see ahead. He may not be an older than an ancilae, but being a primogen obviously opened his eyes up to the dangerous world of vampires, despite the fact he mentions he had no idea of the full range of Vampire abilities, he certainly wasn't completely oblivious to the concept that a Kuei-jin or another infiltrator could infiltrate his home and kill him.

Now as far as the ghouls go, we really don't have much of an idea as to why they were hostile other than assuming it's because Grout's dead or just his demented mind projecting through those who rely on his Malkavian blood, it was most likely his command to attack whoever came into his haven.

Regardless of whether Grout really died or not, we still have to wonder who the mysterious "Friend" was.

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #65 on: July 20, 2016, 07:46:55 am »
He may not be an older than an ancilae, but being a primogen obviously opened his eyes up to the dangerous world of vampires, despite the fact he mentions he had no idea of the full range of Vampire abilities, he certainly wasn't completely oblivious to the concept that a Kuei-jin or another infiltrator could infiltrate his home and kill him.

Maybe this is the reason Ming was there as Nines, because Grout knew that Nines could be trusted but not that Kuei-Jin are shapeshifters...

Offline FleshArtist

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #66 on: July 20, 2016, 08:45:36 pm »
Still sort of odd that Grout, a Camarilla primogen and a lunatic none the less would even trust Nines, I don't even know if he trusted LaCroix or the other primogen, considering the fact that he turtled up in his home.

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #67 on: July 20, 2016, 09:16:12 pm »
Still sort of odd that Grout, a Camarilla primogen and a lunatic none the less would even trust Nines, I don't even know if he trusted LaCroix or the other primogen, considering the fact that he turtled up in his home.

It's obvious from Grout's messages that his voices warned him about LaCroix's ambitions, so it may have looked obvious in that case to trust Nines some more as he is clearly the player working against the prince...

Online Acleacius

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #68 on: July 21, 2016, 05:44:48 pm »
That's a good point, whether someone likes or dislikes Nines, he does seem to be an honest leader. I could see Grout at least meeting with him, because Grout would feel like he needed allies. Not to mention both Nines, Kuei-jin and the death of Anarchs leader were common knowledge. As were the war between Kuei-jin and Anarchs. So it's possible Grout saw/know/heard voices about Nines being trustworthy, at least to a point of alliance.   
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Offline Malkav

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #69 on: July 22, 2016, 12:36:24 pm »
What reason do you have to believe Ming went in looking like Nines? The only thing we know is that she came out to meet the player looking like Nines.
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Offline Wesp5

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #70 on: July 22, 2016, 09:55:27 pm »
What reason do you have to believe Ming went in looking like Nines? The only thing we know is that she came out to meet the player looking like Nines.

You are right. Still it is a reasonable assumption!

 

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