collapse

Author [EN] [PL] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: Open End Game, progress?  (Read 12672 times)

Offline The Shadow Man

  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 727
  • Reputation: +26/-2
Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2016, 02:32:39 AM »
Quote
Correct, Strauss couldn't stop you (although realistically he should be able to but you're the protagonist so you win) you probably wont be recognized by the Camarilla however much you call your self a Prince.
The Nosferatu did seem to have a pretty mercenary attitude, I think the Imalia at the very least might be willing to work with you.
On a side note: it occurs to me that as a Sabbat Bishop, you'd probably end up with the Fu Syndicate building given the Sabbats connections through the Order of St Blaise.

The Fu Syndicate building? Wasn't that just organised by the Keui-Jin? The Order of St. Blaise is a church thing isn't it? The Nosfeartu are the Clan that most all dosen't care about Sects, that is to say, to a Nosfeartu clan comes first and Sabbat Nosfeartu are the most like there Camarilla counterparts of all the clans. Nosfeartu on the whole don't care whos in charge because there information couriers who sell to the highest bidder.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2016, 02:34:50 AM by The Shadow Man »

Offline InTech

  • Ancillus
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
  • Reputation: +11/-4
Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #31 on: July 02, 2016, 10:35:48 AM »
The Fu Syndicate building? Wasn't that just organised by the Keui-Jin? The Order of St. Blaise is a church thing isn't it?
The Order of St Blaise in the World of Darkness is a religious order controlled by the Sabbat.
The Fu Syndicate are clearly Hunters funded by the church as is clear by the Christian religious iconography in some of the rooms, so the idea that the church and by extension the Order of St Blaise might be to take over the building seems like a pretty good one to me.
Especially given that after a Sabbat win they'd be able to operate more openly, eh, that the theory at least.

The Nosfeartu are the Clan that most all dosen't care about Sects, that is to say, to a Nosfeartu clan comes first and Sabbat Nosfeartu are the most like there Camarilla counterparts of all the clans. Nosfeartu on the whole don't care whos in charge because there information couriers who sell to the highest bidder.
I don't know the Sabbat might be a little to far, even for such an insular clan.

Offline The Shadow Man

  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 727
  • Reputation: +26/-2
Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #32 on: July 02, 2016, 12:35:43 PM »
The Fu Syndicate building? Wasn't that just organised by the Keui-Jin? The Order of St. Blaise is a church thing isn't it?
The Order of St Blaise in the World of Darkness is a religious order controlled by the Sabbat.
The Fu Syndicate are clearly Hunters funded by the church as is clear by the Christian religious iconography in some of the rooms, so the idea that the church and by extension the Order of St Blaise might be to take over the building seems like a pretty good one to me.
Especially given that after a Sabbat win they'd be able to operate more openly, eh, that the theory at least.

If you talk to Ming Xiao she confirms the Keui-Jin where behind the Fu Syndicate and there's a email from a "Priestess" which is most likely Ming Xiao. If your talking about the two stone slabs with people on them there properly just some kind of Kindred artifacts or even Kindred in torpor that are stuck in stone, similar things appear in the Giovanni Basement. Besides why would the Sabbat need to find out about Kindred? They are Kindred and know everything the Fu Syndicate testing would tell them anyway.

Quote
I don't know the Sabbat might be a little to far, even for such an insular clan.
Nosfeartu Antitribu are the most like there main Clan of all the Antitribu in fact Nosfeartu themselves don't care about the distinction because Clan comes first to the Nosfeartu. Gary don't like the Prince but he puts up with him. Gary makes deals a deal with the Giovanni that goes against the Prince's plans in fact Gary is properly more of an inconvenience than the Sabbat are.

http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Nosferatu_(VTM)#Nosferatu_antitribu
« Last Edit: July 02, 2016, 12:38:56 PM by The Shadow Man »

Offline InTech

  • Ancillus
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
  • Reputation: +11/-4
Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2016, 10:07:31 PM »

If you talk to Ming Xiao she confirms the Keui-Jin where behind the Fu Syndicate and there's a email from a "Priestess" which is most likely Ming Xiao. If your talking about the two stone slabs with people on them there properly just some kind of Kindred artifacts or even Kindred in torpor that are stuck in stone, similar things appear in the Giovanni Basement. Besides why would the Sabbat need to find out about Kindred? They are Kindred and know everything the Fu Syndicate testing would tell them anyway.

Those look like Creed symbols to me:
http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Creed

That said I was just trying to come up with a narrative, we really don't know enough to say they might be articles of True Faith the Fu Syndicate was experimenting on scientifically to give them a better understanding of how to kill vampires or they might be related to Hunter employees or anything really.
Or there might be a vampire under there as you said, who knows.
From a video game stand point I just like the idea of the Fu Syndicate becoming a shell company for the Sabbat and the OoSB. So you could have 'Hunter' minions in the form Holy Knights of the Order of St Blaise or something.
It's really not hard to think of uses the Sabbat might have for the building, a testing ground for new recruits or discreet blood draining ala BtVS in the alternate universe where the vamps had taken over.



Nosfeartu Antitribu are the most like there main Clan of all the Antitribu in fact Nosfeartu themselves don't care about the distinction because Clan comes first to the Nosfeartu. Gary don't like the Prince but he puts up with him. Gary makes deals a deal with the Giovanni that goes against the Prince's plans in fact Gary is properly more of an inconvenience than the Sabbat are.

http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Nosferatu_(VTM)#Nosferatu_antitribu

So the question is would Golden Gary switch sides? Malice does seem to be something he's very capable of and he is very fond of creating Cleopatra.
However he has been under siege by the Sabbat Archbishop for some time, so no love lost there I imagine.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2016, 10:21:34 PM by InTech »

Offline The Shadow Man

  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 727
  • Reputation: +26/-2
Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2016, 01:07:11 AM »
Quote

Those look like Creed symbols to me:
http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Creed

That said I was just trying to come up with a narrative, we really don't know enough to say they might be articles of True Faith the Fu Syndicate was experimenting on scientifically to give them a better understanding of how to kill vampires or they might be related to Hunter employees or anything really.
Or there might be a vampire under there as you said, who knows.
From a video game stand point I just like the idea of the Fu Syndicate becoming a shell company for the Sabbat and the OoSB. So you could have 'Hunter' minions in the form Holy Knights of the Order of St Blaise or something.
It's really not hard to think of uses the Sabbat might have for the building, a testing ground for new recruits or discreet blood draining ala BtVS in the alternate universe where the vamps had taken over.

Well the Keui-Jin are behind it according to Ming Xiao but maybe the Sabbat could have infiltrated or even made an alliance with the Kuei-Jin, either would be possible. I don't know enough about WoD lore to know Creed symbols but yeah sure its possible however that would be the only suggestion of a religious connection. Maybe it was Hunter run first before being taken over by the Kuei-Jin.


Quote
So the question is would Golden Gary switch sides? Malice does seem to be something he's very capable of and he is very fond of creating Cleopatra.
However he has been under siege by the Sabbat Archbishop for some time, so no love lost there I imagine.

True but he ain't exactly best mates with Lacroix or Issac either. The Nosfeartu don't seem that inconvenienced by the Tzmisce creations however. Nosfeartu of the area clearly broker information to both the Camarilla and the Anarchs so they ain't exactly picking sides. If the Sabbat did take over LA then the local Nosfeartu might not have a choice other than to run, die or join the Sabbat. Nosfeartu seems happy to make deals with the Camarilla, Anarchs and Giovanni so why not the Sabbat?

Offline Wesp5

  • Administratrix
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 6674
  • Reputation: +886/-28
  • Unofficial Patcher
Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2016, 06:25:59 AM »
Before speculation about the knights on the slabs in the Fu building go rampart here, this is an addition of the plus patch which was not in the original game! As far as I know the Fu building is run by the Kuei-Jin, and I placed these slabs there because both rooms where completly empty in the original which looked really unfinished and I figured the Kueij-Jin did some research on the Giovanni when they were hunting for the sarcophagus, which is where these slabs are from. So no connection to the Sabbat or anyone else intended! A Sabbat base should be in King's Way or the Hallowbrook Hotel...

Offline The Shadow Man

  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 727
  • Reputation: +26/-2
Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2016, 12:45:31 PM »
Before speculation about the knights on the slabs in the Fu building go rampart here, this is an addition of the plus patch which was not in the original game! As far as I know the Fu building is run by the Kuei-Jin, and I placed these slabs there because both rooms where completly empty in the original which looked really unfinished and I figured the Kueij-Jin did some research on the Giovanni when they were hunting for the sarcophagus, which is where these slabs are from. So no connection to the Sabbat or anyone else intended! A Sabbat base should be in King's Way or the Hallowbrook Hotel...

I see well that makes sense. I thought they looked like they were the same as ones from the Giovanni mansion.

Offline InTech

  • Ancillus
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
  • Reputation: +11/-4
Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2016, 02:12:23 PM »
Before speculation about the knights on the slabs in the Fu building go rampart here, this is an addition of the plus patch which was not in the original game! As far as I know the Fu building is run by the Kuei-Jin, and I placed these slabs there because both rooms where completly empty in the original which looked really unfinished and I figured the Kueij-Jin did some research on the Giovanni when they were hunting for the sarcophagus, which is where these slabs are from. So no connection to the Sabbat or anyone else intended!

But, but, butt... butts, it makes so much sense, well you could argue that given this is a mod building on a mod plus the Sabbat victory is none cannon we could argue those slabs might as well have always been there...eh.
Actually I think the real question is why the Giovanni had them, as a method of True Faith to control the dead perhaps?

A Sabbat base should be in King's Way or the Hallowbrook Hotel...
I don't know, if I was a Sabbat Bishop I'm not sure I'd want to be that close to the Archbishop.

Offline The Shadow Man

  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 727
  • Reputation: +26/-2
Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #38 on: July 03, 2016, 03:08:20 PM »
Before speculation about the knights on the slabs in the Fu building go rampart here, this is an addition of the plus patch which was not in the original game! As far as I know the Fu building is run by the Kuei-Jin, and I placed these slabs there because both rooms where completly empty in the original which looked really unfinished and I figured the Kueij-Jin did some research on the Giovanni when they were hunting for the sarcophagus, which is where these slabs are from. So no connection to the Sabbat or anyone else intended!

But, but, butt... butts, it makes so much sense, well you could argue that given this is a mod building on a mod plus the Sabbat victory is none cannon we could argue those slabs might as well have always been there...eh.
Actually I think the real question is why the Giovanni had them, as a method of True Faith to control the dead perhaps?
I see no reason why you shouldn't have the option of siding the Sabbat specially since you can side with the Kuei-Jin and betray your own race. Perhaps or maybe they stole them from a religious site or the Society of Leopald, I believe its very rare for a Vampire to have true faith.

Quote
A Sabbat base should be in King's Way or the Hallowbrook Hotel...
I don't know, if I was a Sabbat Bishop I'm not sure I'd want to be that close to the Archbishop.

Ah but we both know we can beat him. A powerful Vampire like the Protagonist would be indispensable to the Archbishop.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2016, 07:33:47 PM by Wesp5 »

Offline InTech

  • Ancillus
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
  • Reputation: +11/-4
Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2016, 09:45:12 PM »
I see no reason why you shouldn't have the option of siding the Sabbat specially since you can side with the Kuei-Jin and betray your own race.

I never said you shouldn't! :razz:
You know what the big irony about the Kuei-Jin ending?
It's the only ending that would mean the protagonist is guaranteed to 'survive' Gehenna after going into torpor at the bottom of the ocean.

Perhaps or maybe they stole them from a religious site or the Society of Leopald, I believe its very rare for a Vampire to have true faith.

Correct, however there are probably plenty of religious individuals or at the very least plenty with contacts in the Church within the living Giovanni family, my guess is they were probably put there to keep the zombies docile to avoid turning the surround into night of the living dead.

Ah but we both know we can beat him. A constantly re-spawning Vampire like the Protagonist would be indispensable to the Archbishop.
Fixed for you, although you are right.
However in my opinion from a Bishop-vampire-protagonist point of view, distance and having your own place would allow you to plot more easily against others within the Sabbat, as Sabbat Vampires do.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2016, 09:48:49 PM by InTech »

Offline The Shadow Man

  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 727
  • Reputation: +26/-2
Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #40 on: July 04, 2016, 02:12:57 AM »
Quote

I never said you shouldn't! :razz:
You know what the big irony about the Kuei-Jin ending?
It's the only ending that would mean the protagonist is guaranteed to 'survive' Gehenna after going into torpor at the bottom of the ocean.
Torpor tied to a box under the sea for god knows how long still pretty tasty.

Quote
Correct, however there are probably plenty of religious individuals or at the very least plenty with contacts in the Church within the living Giovanni family, my guess is they were probably put there to keep the zombies docile to avoid turning the surround into night of the living dead.
I'm given to under the Giovanni are some what lapsed Catholics or not quiet as bad as an average Catholic priest, not entirely sure whether I was joking there or not. Giovanni or at least the Vampire Giovanni know what lies beyond death and its not quiet how the old Bible described.

Quote
Fixed for you, although you are right.
However in my opinion from a Bishop-vampire-protagonist point of view, distance and having your own place would allow you to plot more easily against others within the Sabbat, as Sabbat Vampires do.
The Camarilla do that as well of course they just don't go tearing people apart every night. Andrei might try to keep you under his wing for awhile like Lacroix did because the Sabbat for all its talk, is in the same business as the Camarilla, they might have a longer chain but there slaves all the same and to an even more unforgiving system.

Offline Wesp5

  • Administratrix
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 6674
  • Reputation: +886/-28
  • Unofficial Patcher
Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #41 on: July 04, 2016, 08:14:54 AM »
About the Kuie-Jin ending, I bet the ropes or chains would rot quite fast with a little power applied to them by the player.

About the Sabbat, I guess King's Way would be a nice lair. Andrei is far away downtown and only used it for the videos...

Offline InTech

  • Ancillus
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
  • Reputation: +11/-4
Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2016, 12:45:11 PM »
Torpor tied to a box under the sea for god knows how long still pretty tasty.
About the Kuie-Jin ending, I bet the ropes or chains would rot quite fast with a little power applied to them by the player.
It really depends on what the ropes are made from, shipping ropes made from fiber are really tough and survive for centuries gathering barnacles, that is to say without pressure, and synthetic fiber ropes are even tougher I really don't think even a Vampire could break free of those.
I believe a more likely situation I think is the Vampire goes into Torpor the rotten jerked flesh separate from the ropes a decade or more after being dropped in the ocean and the protagonist just floats free.
Maybe washing up ashore somewhere or picked up by a trawler.

I'm given to under the Giovanni are some what lapsed Catholics or not quiet as bad as an average Catholic priest, not entirely sure whether I was joking there or not. Giovanni or at least the Vampire Giovanni know what lies beyond death and its not quiet how the old Bible described.
Religion in the World of Darkness is about belief and enforcing that belief, it doesn't really matter what the 'truth' is, so long as it can be made to work.
For example a more complex interpretation of the Order of St Blaise is that they enforce the Catholic churches dogma of 'Evil' by encouraging the Sabbat.
I'm sure there are plenty of very religious figures that could rationalize (even knowing the truth) sanctifying the Giovanni catacombs for a price or because of family loyalty.

The Camarilla do that as well of course they just don't go tearing people apart every night. Andrei might try to keep you under his wing for awhile like Lacroix did because the Sabbat for all its talk, is in the same business as the Camarilla, they might have a longer chain but there slaves all the same and to an even more unforgiving system.
Of course, however oversight can be a shit if your boss is an arsehole.

About the Sabbat, I guess King's Way would be a nice lair. Andrei is far away downtown and only used it for the videos...
I'm not sure Andrei would want you to move his furniture...

Offline Wesp5

  • Administratrix
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 6674
  • Reputation: +886/-28
  • Unofficial Patcher
Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #43 on: July 04, 2016, 01:55:07 PM »
I'm not sure Andrei would want you to move his furniture...

I don't think Andrei ever really lived at King's Way. It probably was just scenery for the videos. He says: "Oh yes, the "tape". Merely a test. Certainly not intended to fall into mortal hands." I doubt he would use his own real lair for something like this...

Offline IanW

  • Methuselah
  • ****
  • Posts: 481
  • Reputation: +38/-15
  • Onyx Path Community Manager
    • Onyx Path Publishing
Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #44 on: July 04, 2016, 08:48:11 PM »
Vampires tend to have multiple havens, especially as they grow more powerful (and thus more paranoid). You don't want to lose everything just because a coterie of neonates gets lucky and manages to find their way into one of your havens.

So while I suspect that King's Way was a haven for Andrei, and served as a viable base of operations within Hollywood, it was by no means his only one, and he was more than willing to sacrifice it once the protagonist had gone through it. The bloodbath in the basement of the Hallowbrook was probably his main haven.
Ian A. A. Watson
Onyx Path Community Manager
VTM portal - Tabletop primer

 

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2020, SimplePortal