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Offline The Shadow Man

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2016, 02:33:11 am »
I guess we also have a problem with how the lore is structured as a whole, based off of the ToJ series (which we can all come to a general agreement that it was horrible I'm sure), Gehenna occurs in 2005, which would just give the neonate in Bloodlines about 6-12 more months before it's all over. I guess you could get some good story play in during that time, but it just really bugs me about how cWoD gets cut a little short due to ToJ's added "canon".

Its only canon if we listen *covers his ears* I can't hear you Gehenna. Well a extension to the game after the original ending would be kinda neat but there would have to be a point where there was a second and final ending or playthroughs would never finish. I don't think anyone could add 6-12 months to Bloodlines so I think were cool, although seeing the world end might be a neat and conclusive final ending (can't be anymore if your dead).
« Last Edit: June 24, 2016, 02:44:17 am by The Shadow Man »

Offline IanW

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2016, 05:55:32 pm »
I guess we also have a problem with how the lore is structured as a whole, based off of the ToJ series (which we can all come to a general agreement that it was horrible I'm sure), Gehenna occurs in 2005, which would just give the neonate in Bloodlines about 6-12 more months before it's all over. I guess you could get some good story play in during that time, but it just really bugs me about how cWoD gets cut a little short due to ToJ's added "canon".

ToJ happened in early 2004 (Gehenna was released January 14, 2004). Bloodlines stretched that out to late 2004.

Onyx Path's V20 material is metaplot agnostic: although it's 2011-2016, it's in a nebulous metaplot point between 2nd edition and Revised, and Gehenna hasn't happened yet. By Night Studios' MET:VTM took the approach that Gehenna was averted in 2004 and Kindred society continues on much as it has before.

Our original intent for the new edition was to pick up 11 years after Revised left off: Gehenna happened, and it was devastating to Kindred, but less so for the rest of the world. Remaining Kindred spent some time licking their wounds before rebuilding their society. I suspect White Wolf's new edition will work in a similar fashion.

So there are a lot of options beyond just "the end of the world happened."
Ian A. A. Watson
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Offline Nigama

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2016, 01:50:22 am »
To quote Trainspotting:

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton: This was to be my final Gehenna, but let's be clear about this. There's final Gehennas and final Gehennas. What kind was this to be?
"You may not remember us, but we may be responsible for your lack of memory."

Offline InTech

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2016, 07:14:43 pm »
I always imagined Gehenna as a gradient story-line wise, on one end is 'The Fire Dies'* situation.
Where magic ends and mankind reverts back to a prehistoric society (because science is also a kind of magic) and most of the supernatural are killed off with the exception of individuals who manage to find a loophole.
This leads to the nWoD aka the Chronicles of Darkness when humanity eventually rebuilds. (probably wrong)

On the other end is 'The Invisible'**  utopic ending where reality fails and all limitation are removed, you can literally be whatever you want to be.
Want to create a sun that fits in your hands? Sure. Want to live in a world where everything is made of jelly containing abstract concepts made real? Sure.

And everything in-between including something in the middle where things are dire but they're able to rebuild with some changes.

*Book
**Graphic Novel

Offline The Shadow Man

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2016, 07:53:37 pm »
I always imagined Gehenna as a gradient story-line wise, on one end is 'The Fire Dies'* situation.
Where magic ends and mankind reverts back to a prehistoric society (because science is also a kind of magic) and most of the supernatural are killed off with the exception of individuals who manage to find a loophole.
This leads to the nWoD aka the Chronicles of Darkness when humanity eventually rebuilds. (probably wrong)

On the other end is 'The Invisible'**  utopic ending where reality fails and all limitation are removed, you can literally be whatever you want to be.
Want to create a sun that fits in your hands? Sure. Want to live in a world where everything is made of jelly containing abstract concepts made real? Sure.

And everything in-between including something in the middle where things are dire but they're able to rebuild with some changes.

*Book
**Graphic Novel

I am also a member of the Onyx Path forums and on there it has been made clear more than once that WoD doesn't become CofD or visa versa, the two settings are said to be two distinct settings even if they have similarities.  As for the rest I don't know enough about Gehenna to comment.

Offline IanW

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2016, 06:35:05 am »
Indeed. Although the two settings are thematically similar, the two are not linked.
Ian A. A. Watson
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Offline InTech

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2016, 08:45:09 pm »
I stand corrected.
I have a tendency to work off my own general knowledge, I must be getting confused.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 08:47:01 pm by InTech »

Offline The Shadow Man

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2016, 09:25:58 pm »
Well expanding the game beyond its original ending is a neat idea but things have gotta be visibly changed for it to be worth doing and realistic as well properly will requiring a whole new Hub and expansion to the story accumulating in a second and final ending.

Offline InTech

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2016, 10:28:18 pm »
I've always thought it would be awesome if you could have an in-game Vampire Lair creator kind of like the town creator in Fallout.
With your own minions with a look that varies based on your ending.

Offline The Shadow Man

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2016, 11:32:56 pm »
I've always thought it would be awesome if you could have an in-game Vampire Lair creator kind of like the town creator in Fallout.
With your own minions with a look that varies based on your ending.

Interesting tell me more

Offline InTech

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2016, 09:25:18 pm »
Interesting tell me more
Well just think about it, instead of ending the game you re-spawn in a new 'hub':
If you had Camarilla ending you could become the Prince of China Town as Kuei-jin have been vacated.
With the Anarch ending you could become the Baron of Downtown perhaps gaining control of the old Sabbat place.
If you go Autarkis maybe the Society of Leopold's cave? With the entrance to the church blown out.

Then you could have a simplified 3D editor that would allow you to spawn in prefabricated models, ghouls and loyal supernatural creatures.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 09:41:30 pm by InTech »

Offline The Shadow Man

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2016, 10:22:58 pm »
Interesting tell me more
Well just think about it, instead of ending the game you re-spawn in a new 'hub':
If you had Camarilla ending you could become the Prince of China Town as Kuei-jin have been vacated.
With the Anarch ending you could become the Baron of Downtown perhaps gaining control of the old Sabbat place.
If you go Autarkis maybe the Society of Leopold's cave? With the entrance to the church blown out.

Then you could have a simplified 3D editor that would allow you to spawn in prefabricated models, ghouls and loyal supernatural creatures.

Well the idea has potential, the last bit might work better as a set of minions in a Companion mod set up. As for the Camarilla, if you did become Prince its more likely you would become Prince of LA with Santa Monica, Hollywood and Chinatown included. Also what about the Sabbat ending? Then my other question would be what do you do then?

Offline InTech

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2016, 10:37:16 pm »
Well the idea has potential, the last bit might work better as a set of minions in a Companion mod set up. As for the Camarilla, if you did become Prince its more likely you would become Prince of LA with Santa Monica, Hollywood and Chinatown included. Also what about the Sabbat ending? Then my other question would be what do you do then?
I always assumed the Tremere regent took over as Technocratic (in the political sense) leader of the Camarilla in LA until a new Prince is chosen by the hierarchy and logically he would only be able to 'give you a job' not hand over keys to the Kingdom.
Although yes I suppose that could happen eventually if the powers that be chose you.
For Sabbot... Bishop of China Town maybe?
It's Sandbox mode so really just finish of any left over quests although I guess there could be some new quests.

Offline The Shadow Man

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2016, 11:53:54 pm »
Well the idea has potential, the last bit might work better as a set of minions in a Companion mod set up. As for the Camarilla, if you did become Prince its more likely you would become Prince of LA with Santa Monica, Hollywood and Chinatown included. Also what about the Sabbat ending? Then my other question would be what do you do then?
I always assumed the Tremere regent took over as Technocratic (in the political sense) leader of the Camarilla in LA until a new Prince is chosen by the hierarchy and logically he would only be able to 'give you a job' not hand over keys to the Kingdom.
Although yes I suppose that could happen eventually if the powers that be chose you.
For Sabbot... Bishop of China Town maybe?
It's Sandbox mode so really just finish of any left over quests although I guess there could be some new quests.

That sounds about right thou I'm not sure if Bishops take on Domains. In any case I'm pretty sure Andrei would stay Archbishop of LA just without any Camarilla or Anarch interference. I can see your point about the Regent though if you really did want the job I don't think that Strauss could stop you, you did take down the Sheriff, Andrei and Ming Xiao among others.  Well the Museum quest would properly be off limits since you either finished off the Sabbat or Joined them. The Nosferatu properly would adapt to whoever is in charge so the Screcknet and Webcam quests from them might still work. If you become the "Boss" in some way over certain Vampires I don't see you doing quests for then but either way pretty much all the Human given quests would still be possible I think.

Offline InTech

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Re: Open End Game, progress?
« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2016, 01:01:08 am »
Well the idea has potential, the last bit might work better as a set of minions in a Companion mod set up. As for the Camarilla, if you did become Prince its more likely you would become Prince of LA with Santa Monica, Hollywood and Chinatown included. Also what about the Sabbat ending? Then my other question would be what do you do then?
I always assumed the Tremere regent took over as Technocratic (in the political sense) leader of the Camarilla in LA until a new Prince is chosen by the hierarchy and logically he would only be able to 'give you a job' not hand over keys to the Kingdom.
Although yes I suppose that could happen eventually if the powers that be chose you.
For Sabbot... Bishop of China Town maybe?
It's Sandbox mode so really just finish of any left over quests although I guess there could be some new quests.

That sounds about right thou I'm not sure if Bishops take on Domains. In any case I'm pretty sure Andrei would stay Archbishop of LA just without any Camarilla or Anarch interference. I can see your point about the Regent though if you really did want the job I don't think that Strauss could stop you, you did take down the Sheriff, Andrei and Ming Xiao among others.  Well the Museum quest would properly be off limits since you either finished off the Sabbat or Joined them. The Nosferatu properly would adapt to whoever is in charge so the Screcknet and Webcam quests from them might still work. If you become the "Boss" in some way over certain Vampires I don't see you doing quests for then but either way pretty much all the Human given quests would still be possible I think.
Correct, Strauss couldn't stop you (although realistically he should be able to but you're the protagonist so you win) you probably wont be recognized by the Camarilla however much you call your self a Prince.
The Nosferatu did seem to have a pretty mercenary attitude, I think the Imalia at the very least might be willing to work with you.
On a side note: it occurs to me that as a Sabbat Bishop, you'd probably end up with the Fu Syndicate building given the Sabbats connections through the Order of St Blaise.

 

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