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Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines => Bloodlines Modding => Topic started by: khaos526 on February 12, 2019, 01:03:40 AM

Title: Modding Skins Folder Questions
Post by: khaos526 on February 12, 2019, 01:03:40 AM
  Ok I'm a bit familiar with how the skins work, as I have added a number of new ones for the clans and NPC's.  I even swapped the skins of two clans using the clan000.txt, which was in the
(https://forums.planetvampire.com/bloodlines-modding/reassigning-skins/) thread.

  Now I think I'm getting confused here with how things work.

In the \\Vampire The Masquerade - Bloodlines\Vampire\ folder I have both a materials and a modelsfolder.  The materials folder also has a models folder in it as well.

  Some mods seem to only have a materials folder, while others have both the materials folder and models folder.

  It seems they are almost the same, but it's confusing why there are two?

  I also noticed when modifying the clan000.txt that it seems to point to the Vampire The Masquerade - Bloodlines\Vampire\models\ folder and not the one in the "models" in the materials folder.

  So what is this?

  I'm trying to swap and do a hybrid Malk using several people's skins and just use say Armor0 from one mode, Armor1 from another, etc.  I'm also wanting to change the link in the clans000.txt to have some cases where I want Armor0 from one mod, Armor0 from another, but have that one as Armor1, etc.  Which seems to be possible.  I'm just not sure what "model" folder to use?

  Hope it's not too confusing the way I stated it...
Title: Re: Modding Skins Folder Questions
Post by: khaos526 on February 12, 2019, 01:09:09 AM
Update:  Is it that there is a separate model folder under Vampire The Masquerade - Bloodlines\Vampire\ because some people have altered the actual look of the character and not just the clothes?  If so, I would then assume that those mods that have altered the actual look of the character won't work with armors that just go in the materials folder?
Title: Re: Modding Skins Folder Questions
Post by: Barabbah on February 12, 2019, 04:58:08 AM
A model file contains the 3d model and text paths to the textures in the materials folder. Some modifies it along the texture files to avoid the modified texture to be used by any other 3d model.
For example, when creating a clone of the Jeanette model but with alternate textures, if you want to keep the original textures for her change the name of the new textures and modify the model file clone to search for the textures in the different directory.
The game, when search for a file first looks for it outside the .vpk archives and then inside. So if a mod changes only textures all the models depending on these files will load it (so no need to add it to the mod archive, although some might still add it).
And for the last question, a modified model may still work with the original textures but if not then it must use different textures.
I hope to have made it all clear.
Title: Re: Modding Skins Folder Questions
Post by: khaos526 on February 12, 2019, 01:50:43 PM
That sort of makes sense then.  So I guess (as there are actually limited skins out there anyways right now) it would just be best to leave them as is, unless it's just a "material" change and not one that uses different models.

  My new questions is, I've say downloaded a skin (Toreador for example) and it comes with the 4 "armor1 - armor4" folders for both model and materials, and I realize I really like armor1, armor1 and armor2, armor3, but hate armor 4 and decide I want to just use say armor3 for the armor4.

When I go into the clan000.txt I have updated the paths from this from the "player_toreador"
"F_Body4"    "models/character/pc/female/toreador/armor4/toreador_Female_Armor_4.mdl"
"F_Body5"      "models/character/pc/female/toreador/armor4/toreador_Female_Armor_4.mdl"

To this:
"F_Body4"      "models/character/pc/female/toreador/armor3/toreador_Female_Armor_3.mdl"
"F_Body5"      "models/character/pc/female/toreador/armor3/toreador_Female_Armor_3.mdl"

  However, when I start the game, I'm still having my character show the Armor4 model as nothing has changed.  So trying to figure out why that is?

 
Title: Re: Modding Skins Folder Questions
Post by: argikt on February 12, 2019, 02:42:45 PM
Armor 4 is armor 3, because the count start in 0. :razz:
Title: Re: Modding Skins Folder Questions
Post by: Barabbah on February 12, 2019, 07:22:55 PM
A more useful solution is copying the folder with the armor you want to double, rename the files inside as the names of those of the one you hate and finally rename the folder accordingly

Example: you want to use the 3rd armor (armor2) also as the 4th (armor3). Copy "armor2", copy the names of each file in "armor3" and paste it in those in the copy of the former

namearmor2.dx7_2bone.vtx    -> namearmor3.dx7_2bone.vtx
namearmor2.dx80.vtx         -> namearmor3.dx80.vtx
namearmor2.mdl              -> namearmor3.mdl
namearmor2.phy (if present) -> namearmor3.phy


delete "armor3", rename "armor2" as "armor3" and it's ready
Title: Re: Modding Skins Folder Questions
Post by: khaos526 on February 12, 2019, 08:21:24 PM
I actually originally tried that, but think I was doing it only with the files in the Model Folder under Armors and not in the Materials folder.  That might be why.  So that means the clans000.txt is actually looking at the Model folder and not the Materials/Model folder (this is what I had been previously confused about).

 I'll try it out the way you suggested under the Material folder...
Title: Re: Modding Skins Folder Questions
Post by: Barabbah on February 12, 2019, 10:23:39 PM
No! Not the material/models, the other one! :smile:

You have to make a copy of the model. If you delete the textures of a model and replace them with others you will encounter in 3 possible outcomes:
- the model won't find the textures, almost ever
- the model will find texture files of the same name it needs but aren't compatible (the result is like putting scooter wheels on a tractor, you can bolt them but it's a mess), rare
- the model find the textures and by luck they are compatible, almost never
Title: Re: Modding Skins Folder Questions
Post by: khaos526 on February 13, 2019, 01:13:25 AM
That worked.  It was just confusing to me what the MATERIALS folder was and what the MODELS folder was and how the MATERIALS folder also has a Model folder in it.  So I never knew which "Model" folder people or things were really referring to.

  I just thought the MODEL folder was for the body shape and such for the PC and the MATERIALS was for the armor designs that you would modify.  Still it's confusing to me, but your example worked at least...
Title: Re: Modding Skins Folder Questions
Post by: vampire_nonsense on February 13, 2019, 09:16:38 PM
Think of it like this:

Materials/models = the "materials" (textures) that go on the models.

Models = the models themselves (which need "materials")

All the textures go on different types of things. Models are objects like characters and furniture, while things like wallpaper and floors and the outsides of buildings are flat. That's why there's a folder also named Models within the Materials folder: it's for the textures that go on all the things in the OTHER Models folder.

If you can, looking through each folder for a given model should help you grasp the difference more easily.
Title: Re: Modding Skins Folder Questions
Post by: khaos526 on February 14, 2019, 02:38:25 AM
  That clears it up, thank you.  Now my only other question is I found a skin (Male Gangrel) that only uses MATERIALS and doesn't have any MODELS in it.  The MODEL folder also doesn't have a folder for Male Gangrel.  Does this mean the MATERIALS just default to the base model that was installed in the game for the male Gangrel?

  If so, I don't suppose there's anyways to removed or rearrange the armors for that as I could with the previous comments I had changing the MODEL armors for the Female Malk?
Title: Re: Modding Skins Folder Questions
Post by: Barabbah on February 14, 2019, 09:08:47 AM
If you need the models you can find those in the .vpk archives, extract those and rename as the malk ones. So not only the gangrel is reskinned but also the malkavian will use those models.

But if you want to keep them separated, I mean vanilla gangrel to the gangrel and modded gangrel to the malk, then things become a little complicated.

1. Change the directory of the modded reskin, like
- FROM    materials/models/character/pc/male/gangrel/
- TO      materials/models/character/pc/male/gangrelnew/

2. With the VPKTools edit, on the copy of the gangrel model you use for the malk, the path of the textures to the new one
3. Edit in all the .vmt files of the reskin the new position too (only if the texture is from that folder, so for shared stuff like eyes and teeth don't do nothing
4. IF a .vmt file is not present you have to make one: they're just .txt files, so you have to create a .txt file and write down some stuff which I don't remember (I'll add them in the next ten minutes)
0. ALWAYS do a backup before trying
Title: Re: Modding Skins Folder Questions
Post by: Barabbah on February 14, 2019, 10:03:22 AM
4. IF a .vmt file is not present you have to make one: they're just .txt files, so you have to create a .txt file and write down some stuff which I don't remember (I'll add them in the next ten minutes)

Here's the standard content of a .vmt file:

Code: [Select]
VertexLitGeneric
{
"$basetexture" "materials/models/character/pc/male/gangrelnew/[name of the texture WITHOUT the extention]"
}
Title: Re: Modding Skins Folder Questions
Post by: khaos526 on February 14, 2019, 02:13:50 PM
  Actually I don't need to switch between the Malk and Gangrel.  I was just using the Malk one as an example of how it was easy to just remove an armor type (say Armor1) and just use Armor0 for it instead.

  The Gangrel one is the only one where I don't currently have a MODEL for it existing, it only has the Armor's in MATERIALS.

  So will check then .vpk and try and get the base MODEL for the gangrel and then use the .vmt as you stated in the next comment and see how that goes.  Thanks...
Title: Re: Modding Skins Folder Questions
Post by: vampire_nonsense on February 14, 2019, 04:43:12 PM
If you mean there is no Vampire/models folder for the Gangrel skin, that is normal. Most people don't tweak the actual models; if they do, or if they create a set with other models from the game (like basing a new Gangrel character on Beckett's model), then a new Vampire/models folder with the new model files is needed to overwrite the old.

  That clears it up, thank you.  Now my only other question is I found a skin (Male Gangrel) that only uses MATERIALS and doesn't have any MODELS in it.  The MODEL folder also doesn't have a folder for Male Gangrel.  Does this mean the MATERIALS just default to the base model that was installed in the game for the male Gangrel?

Yes, the game directs the new textures to the default model. As long as you are using new textures for the game's default models, you don't even need a models folder. Barabbah, of course, is giving you great technical advice for any deeper changes you may wish to make.
Title: Re: Modding Skins Folder Questions
Post by: khaos526 on February 15, 2019, 02:37:15 AM
Yes, the game directs the new textures to the default model. As long as you are using new textures for the game's default models, you don't even need a models folder. Barabbah, of course, is giving you great technical advice for any deeper changes you may wish to make.
  Yeah I was able to change and remove the armor's I didn't like from the MODEL folder as was mentioned before with the tips.  I am now wondering how to alter the Armors that only exist in the Materials folder to remove the Armors I don't like and use another Armor in the same folder and just copy that.

  The only way I saw to do this was using the MODEL directory which I did, but now just wanting to do it for those that don't have anything in the MODEL directory.

  Hope that clears it up...
Title: Re: Modding Skins Folder Questions
Post by: Barabbah on February 15, 2019, 09:13:28 AM
  Yeah I was able to change and remove the armor's I didn't like from the MODEL folder as was mentioned before with the tips.  I am now wondering how to alter the Armors that only exist in the Materials folder to remove the Armors I don't like and use another Armor in the same folder and just copy that.

  The only way I saw to do this was using the MODEL directory which I did, but now just wanting to do it for those that don't have anything in the MODEL directory.

  Hope that clears it up...

Sorry, that wasn't clear :/
Title: Re: Modding Skins Folder Questions
Post by: khaos526 on February 15, 2019, 02:06:15 PM
  So I looked into the .vpk archives and found 1 base armor0 for the MODEL directory for all the clans in the *002.vpk archive.  But there wasn't any other armor's I could extract, just the armors for the MATERIAL folder (base textures I guess).

  Again, the help I got from Barabbah helped with my Malkavian armor issue because he showed me how to alter the files names in the MODEL directory which I had a model for the Malkavian.

  The Gangel is just a separate clan I wish to alter (nothing to do with merging with the Malkavian skins or anything).  I just don't like one of the downloaded armor's I got in the download (which only contained a MATERIALS folder).  This means I can't use the same method Barabbah helped me with changing the Malk armor previously as that was done in the MODEL folder.

  Hope that clears up the confusion a bit...
Title: Re: Modding Skins Folder Questions
Post by: vampire_nonsense on February 15, 2019, 02:58:10 PM
  So I looked into the .vpk archives and found 1 base armor0 for the MODEL directory for all the clans in the *002.vpk archive.  But there wasn't any other armor's I could extract, just the armors for the MATERIAL folder (base textures I guess).

  Again, the help I got from Barabbah helped with my Malkavian armor issue because he showed me how to alter the files names in the MODEL directory which I had a model for the Malkavian.

  The Gangel is just a separate clan I wish to alter (nothing to do with merging with the Malkavian skins or anything).  I just don't like one of the downloaded armor's I got in the download (which only contained a MATERIALS folder).  This means I can't use the same method Barabbah helped me with changing the Malk armor previously as that was done in the MODEL folder.

  Hope that clears up the confusion a bit...

Heh, I think we're all a little confused. :)

You want to duplicate an armor texture to replace one you don't like, right? I am assuming the Gangrel's armor1 and armor2 since those aren't different models, and so could swap textures easily. Renaming the textures should be enough, so maybe you could explain exactly what's gone wrong so far? A link to the skin you are using or a screenshot might be also helpful at this point.
Title: Re: Modding Skins Folder Questions
Post by: khaos526 on February 15, 2019, 11:47:40 PM
  Yes I don't actually want to do deeper changes.  In fact I'm not even trying to change Armor from one clan to another.  I was just referencing that they helped me with my Malkavian by explaining how to do that using the file name changes in the MODEL folder for the Malk.

  I just want to do the same thing for the Gangrel, but there is no Model for it of the one I downloaded, just the MATERIAL Armors.  Those I can't figure out how to remove one of the Armors and just use a copy of another one of the Armors in the same folder.

  Looked at the .vpk file and saw the MODEL for the male Gangrel in pack002.vpk (Couldn't get it to open with GCFScape at all, despite having the needed things installed on the computer.  Had to use the Bloodlines SDK instead to view them).

  Problem was in the pack002.vpk, I only saw MODEL for Armor0 of the Gangrel, not the other 3.  So wasn't sure how to work with that to modify my armor.

  Hope that clears it up a bit...
Title: Re: Modding Skins Folder Questions
Post by: vampire_nonsense on February 16, 2019, 02:28:35 AM
OK, got it. If all you want is the rest of the Gangrel's model files, just keep looking in the other vpks. pack005, for example, has files for the armor2 textures and model.
Title: Re: Modding Skins Folder Questions
Post by: khaos526 on February 17, 2019, 07:45:02 PM
OK, got it. If all you want is the rest of the Gangrel's model files, just keep looking in the other vpks. pack005, for example, has files for the armor2 textures and model.
  Great, that's what I needed to do then.  Didn't realize they were in different packs, only looked through a few of them, but not all :)