Author Topic: CQM confusion  (Read 327 times)

Offline PaKaniuk

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CQM confusion
« on: January 01, 2019, 08:29:02 PM »
I used to play Bloodlines for something like ten years now, but never used mods - for serious, at least - and also never needed to register to forum. I were reader only, more or less regular.
So i wanted to say hello, before starting writ any (possibly) annoying stuff. Then hello.
Also wanted to do something for years and now that i'm already registered: please take my big expressions of gratitude for all this years working with Vtm:B and it's problematic - at least - code. I'm aware that it's hard and boring work. I never succeeded in modifying anything serious in this game. So i just want you to know ladies and gentlemans that your work is appreciated, for years event if i didn't show it any ways before. There is a lot of people in readme files of many projects that are worth of personally gratitude, which i even remember by nicks and can list here without checking any files, which is greatest evidence of cooperation and (probably) envy free spirit of cooperation in this society. I presume.

And now (possibly) annoying stuff. I am new here so typing about problems with (possibly) spoiling topics, before i give any contribution into community is little rude and i'm aware of it. Also as I already mentioned this game definitely surpass my modding skills (not once, i can assure you) so any possible contribution from my side never gonna be big, which i consider very sad. So, let's start:

I play Glass Eyed Brujah, Camarilla (Anarchs) path. Also: english isn't my first language and spanish are completely unknown which can make - or may not - some importance.
Spoiler for Hiden:
1) After getting into East LA i had no idea where to go. I knewed i have to find Jesse, but spent a lot of time looking for Gallery until i find him in skatepark i realised what "gallery" he was talking about. Nothing in his look or way of talking implies that he could be find in skatepark, just find him running randomly in the hood. Facts that he stay in dark and lacks of busstop in sight when you get there for the first time also didn't help.
2) I knew also that i have to speak with Victoria, this is what Andrei want me to do. I couldn't ask Jesse about her. But during conversation he said something like she is in projects. So i spent some time looking for shop/company/gastronomy witch name can refer to word project somehow until i realised that it's housing project. By the way mailboxes with names do their jobs in helping early navigation.
3) Victoria wanted me to go to Mack. Finding him were a lot easier - you know prostitution, red light - thereforth it's still like Regent's Riddle, but without riddle per se.
4) After some time i had to go to Arturo with the briefcase full of gold to convince him to let sister go. Only dialog options i had were referred to Arianna's sexworker carrier was implicated by Victoria. Which i didn't know, maybe i could suspect (which i didn't). This dialog confused me a lot. I reloaded and spended some time looking for clue after this. Talked one more time with Arianna, checked her laptop, looked for some diary or something Hannah quest like. No succed. Looked for clues in Victoria house (pc, note, appointment book anything). No succed. I thought that maybe Mack has some clues, but his laptop was inaccessible
but he told me that her brother already let her go once. Then I started to think that maybe it's all lie/bluff what i sad to Arturo, but earlier in the game that sort of think was always with colorfull fonts.
After this i pissed a little and started this topic. I'm not sure, maybe it's work as intended, but if not it's maybe not so hard to fix.
Spoiler for Hiden:
To be perfectly clear i'm not even try to suggest rebuilding dialogs. I know how painfull voiceacting implementation can be. I thought more about more precise log entries. Moving cabbie closer to busstop is probably biggest issue and probably it's only me that think this could be good. With Jesse's dialogs it would be great that you could ask him about certain people/places before meeting them but after you heard about them. With Mercurio it work that way and i always looked for his advice before i goes somewhere, not after. Unfortunately i was so excited about going to east LA that i haven't ask him about this district, but i did fast look into mercurio.dlg and it looks like he has nothing to say. To be clear: i don't and i didn't expect dialog with Mercurio about east LA  (as i typed already: i can imagine voiceacting pain), checked by curiosity. Mercurio has added dialog conditions about flags that are added after you talked with someone about someone/something. It would be really great to do something like this with Jesse.
There is also more generic stuff which can be (a little bit) annoying:
Spoiler for Hiden:
Braid Talisman added +1 Perception, but it's description states: +1 Wits. Weekapaug Thistle needed to be add via console (i'm aware this is known bug, exclusive to CQM). There are items that don't participate in any quest anymore since Gary's posters quest was removed, but aren't sellable (worth 0$) and you newer can be sure are they, at some point, aren't exchangable for some lore/easteregg info or even some juicy bumpstat/xp reward (for example: Vampyr Apocrypha). This wouldn't be a problem if you could carry all junk with you, but you can't. There is some limit in items in personal inventory. There would be great if non-quest items have some price. Which left us with Vivitrazac/Drug Box, which is quest item at this state of UP, but only once, and you can get at least two of them in CQM. Adding price to it however wuldn't be a big gameplay changer because Trip/Drugs quest is at the moment when you have only one shopkeeper so danger that you sell it somewhere else by accident is really marginal.
It looks like some of this stuff is really easy to change and should be because they are small buggy insects, but some of them not so easy and some of them i don't know, maybe are like they should/intended to be and shouldn't be changed even if their "repair" looks easy.
And now thinks i don't like for some point and used to change them, at least tried, for personal use:
Spoiler for Hiden:
Occult items increased stats. Why they can't increase feats? It's so easy to do that i always thought it is intentional, but this is really annoying, many of them are accessible so far in the game that possibility that you have charisma/security/perception/wits/agility maxed is far over average. Only casus of agility can be justified because it gonna neglect armor penalty which is great (don't have to change clothes every time you want to open hard lock is priceless). That leads us to -
 probably - CQM exclusive feature: -2 tremere/histories max stat penalties. -2 agility means 9 and 10 level locks are beyond your'e access forever. With antique locker +1 lockpicking, not security, you could handle 9 level locks later in the game. But it still leave firearms book level 5 beyond your'e access. Fair enough if you play as tremere who are generally considered to be overpowered. But there are histories (maybe i don't remember good) for non tremere characters that cripple your'e physical abilities when you don't have thaumaturgy you probably plan to invest xp in firearms. This book is gonna be real tragedy when you get end of chinatown to find out you can't never open this door. I have no idea to which degree this stuff is intended.
I may understand reasons why stat/feat situation was left this way in UP, but lefting this in overhaul mod surprised me, really.
For personal use i also aliased occult items with inspection not research, just to make this stat more usefull. I don't think someone beside me may like that idea.
Well because i already mentions max stats. I gonna write one more thing, but it's little offtopic there is possibility to change maxstat via item, so it is probably via discipline also. Increasing every max stat always when when discipline increase youre stat. For years wanted to test it but i'm too lazy and incompetent does anyone who read it tried? Would it work 15 strenght (stat+bloodbuff+potence), with brujah with maxed brawl that give 21 unarmed and plus 5 undefendable damage from potence. Is it really work that great as it looks on the paper? Similar with ranged/defense and auspex. Is it really gonna be as devastating as it looks? For purpose of this questions i will try overlook difficulty of acquiring enough experience to maxed stats like this.
Well increasing maxstat via disciplines could neglect penalties, even used in smaller degree (like for example: only at bloodbuff 3 or 5; something like that).
There is also one more stuff during installation of CQM is an option to disable blood timer. I have to say that this timer is the first reason i started to look after mods Bloodlines. As i understand many people finding it annoyed because it ticking during dialogs. But what i remember someone (probably Zer0Morph, if i remember correctly) find way to disable it in dialogs which was used in Final Nights. I looked into guts of Final Nights back then and remember that blood timer took there a lot of code (it was bounded to humanity and stamina, so it's understandable) but i don't remember i found dialog enabler/disabler. Point is that i could look for it again, i'm couple of years smarter after all, but does anyone is interested to using this? I really don't know, maybe only i am blood timer fan?
Spoiler for Hiden:
For last, lack of maybe spoiling informations make me feel unhappy (a little).
1) I wanted to know how sabbat ending resonate with other quests? Lasombra from library or Lorenzo from ventrue quest, for egsample, are there possibility to meet them in other circumstances what are their relations with other sabbat members from 4.0? Is there Hallowbrook fight? I havent get there if not, do you still meet Lorenzo as ventrue? On the other hand you don't consider this a plot hole: Andrei's lair is at Kings Way(and it looks like tzimisce home), If you a cammy we can assume you make him move out, but if you join sabbat why should he? As long as i remember for them moving out is a big deal. At the second look we can assume that Hallowbrook is his lair, but definitly doesn't look like one.
2) which clan you can safely pick for sabbat ending without worrying that youre clan quest is gone after warrens? Is there any list of screwed quests if you join sabbat. I want sabbat for second CQM playthrough.
3) Can't diblerize VV after join victoria fair, it's storytelling. I read somewhere, that this unfortunately means you can't succesfully "eat" Isaack, and this is big deal, it put you in point where choosing side makes a big difference. Is it true?

I also aware that my "relatively easy" things to do are much complicated in context of CQM installation options and code compatibility between every installation. Burgermeister01 already write about it in other topic i'm aware of the problem. Don't wan't someone think i'm ungratefull demanding peace of s**t. I just thought I give feedback to team that makes CQM. Becouse it's great, really. I know that i wrote a lot of stuff with "my problems", but i really think its great, and i would love to help, if i could somehow.

Thanks to everyone who gonna read this. Greatest gratitude to anyone who gonna reply.

Offline Barabbah

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Re: CQM confusion
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2019, 12:04:11 PM »
I have to admit orienting in the latino hub may be a bit difficult at first (although in the projects all mailboxes, in the same place, hints Victoria's apartment is the 1st and in the bus stop maps there are boobs drawed in the place you can find mack's whorehouse). And even the briefcase quest is very confusing (have you tried using it in the inventory before give it to Arturo?  :vampwink:)

And about the clan quests, some time ago I wrote down a quick guide to who and when these quest can be activated, I just need to find that....
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 12:06:35 PM by Barabbah »
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― me (on changing my mind on deleting cheeks for a mod)

Offline PaKaniuk

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Re: CQM confusion
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2019, 09:07:26 PM »
Thanks for replay, Barrabah.

My first post is very confusing (probably i was to excited writing it), I should edit it somehow.
I read already walkthrough from CQM official site, but the case is:
Spoiler for Hiden:
Most of Clan Quests starts or have main part after miting with Garry. If you play sabbat way Brujah quest can be done dirty (by killing Strauss); Ventrue quest is doable (without giving Assamite book, which you probably don't want to do if you plan to side with sabbat); Malkavian and Nosferatu quests are available after speaking with Garry, so they out; Torreador quest start before meeting with Garry, but to finish it you have to be cammie in giovanni level, so it out to; Tremere quest is fully doable - I think - it looks like you can start and finish it in before going The Ways of Kings; Gangrel quest is troubling me most, almost everything you can do before warrens, but to finish you have to speak with Beckett, does he chase you in the alley if you sabbat to give you chance to finish quest?. From beckett.dlg it looks like he will speak with player character, but without option of finishing quest. I don't know is it intended to be that way (gangrel quest), because it can be changed weary easy. I would love to do it, but I don't know does anyone want it and is it should be changed in the first place. I'm not sure if, maybe design intentions are: clan quests or sabbat ways?
All what i wrote already is based on walkthroughts. I didn't look for answers in .dlg (or others) files (for gangrel quest I did). Does anybody knows the answer or I have to dig through files? I'll be grateful for answers because looking for something in such big amount of files is real pain in the a*s. To be clear i'm ready to do it, but i don't want to use force on open doors. So if someone know the answers that are proven true it would be really nice to read them.

I took some time to look at youtube videos and take some small insights into files. After this i realised that some of my "problems" are probably related to CE not CQM per se. Videos made by mod author are without CE installed so maybe this is "canonical" version of mod and should be played that way to avoid any small irritations. Also I changed traiteffects000.txt (every entry commented to avoid confusion):
Spoiler for Hiden:
1) Braid Talisman add wits, not perception.
2) Antique Locket increase feat (lockpicking), not trait (security).
3) All stats increasing disciplines (BloodBuff, Potence, Auspex, Protean) have also "max 20" (in other files 20 states as maximum value for most, if not every stat, so enabling discipline resets your penalty to - let's say - "vanilla" state.
4) All frenzy stats modifiers get the same "max 20" modifier.

I tested it at Hallowbrook level with/without maxed stats, enabled/disabled. It isn't game changer at any point. Maybe at this point i'm so overpowered that it doesn't matter.
I would love to upload it, but can't figure out how, it's for CQM + CE with timer + CompModLite. But I'm not sure does anybody find it useful.
Spoiler for Hiden:
By the way. CompModLite let you embrace Yukie. I already left her in fish market, but as long as I remember I will met her chinatown near games end, so I will try to embrace her there. Another question is does sabbat path let you embrace Heather/Yukie?

I also have to sorry for stuff from previous post, because:
Spoiler for Hiden:
In video I saw "real" Andrei's Hallowbrook Lair and it looks like his home, so Big excuses to authors for "plot hole" accusations. It was rude, unfair and simply not true. Also during file testing I saw Lorenzo, so he is there. Maybe during sabbat playthrough i will have chance to spoke with him.

There is still question of Grout's Mansion book/item case. Can anyone suggest me where to change this? In which files? Python is a mystery to me, so I can only do some copy/paste/change monkey work. When I read through I can't see any reference to item that I'm interested in or maybe I'm just blind/stupid?
And last: is there any list of items that are used to anything. It's question of carrying stuff. I played Bloodline so many times, that when I do it, I want to see/read everything what is possible and as I mentioned in previous post it's impossible to carry all stuff with you. Or maybe I can mod it somewhere?
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 10:24:59 PM by PaKaniuk »

Offline burgermeister01

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Re: CQM confusion
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2019, 06:29:37 AM »
Hey CQM mod author here, just wanted to pop in and give you a few responses to your post. First off, thank you so much for your kind words and thoughtful comments. It sounds like overall you are enjoying the mod, so I am glad for that =D

I will try to answer the most important questions instead of every individual question and point you raise.

Confusion in navigation East LA hub:
 I have been astutely watching other peoples' Let's Play videos of CQM and it has been incredibly educational for me. I am aware there are a large number of things in CQM that people find curious or confusing that I need to make more intuitive. The mailboxes were meant to help, but as you can see they are somewhat far away, for instance. It's easy for me the creator to get too close to this project and miss things that would otherwise be difficult for other people to intuit. It's all been a great learning experience for me, and the issues I CAN fix in the future, I intend to do so. Jesse's location, for instance, isn't as easy, as I'd have to change his dialog and the voice acting, and it doesn't really make sense for him to be on a map anywhere.

Other Sabbat NPCs:
This is another shortcoming of CQM, as I don't do a lot to tie things up with Lorenzo or any other Sabbat NPCs you previous meet. It's just a little awkward because I had a great idea for a story in my head, and the other characters introduced through CQM seemed to come from a time when CQM was less mature so it was in a lot of ways, easier to forget them all together, especially considering that to have it REALLY work seamlessly, I would need to go back and change the old CQM content to make those quests work as well with the new content. This is a much harder problem to solve and I don't know if I realistically ever will.

You guessed right that CQM doesn't really affect this very much. CQM doesn't do anything to change your stats or traits or histories or anything like that. There's a few cases where I made a mistake merging UP and CE, so some of the artifacts are missing and you get significantly less XP if you take the Sabbat route (although that is somewhat displaced by the ability to diablerize other vampires) but otherwise the power level should be more or less the same. Other changes you see are probably related to CE or other mods.

Anyway, I hope these comments help you understand where I'm coming from. I'll definitely take your advice about navigation in East LA onboard, and how confusing it can be. Cheers!


Offline PaKaniuk

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Re: CQM confusion
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2019, 03:32:04 PM »
Thank you very much for answer, Burgermeister01. I haven't really expect to get response from author himself. That make me feel, a little "special"?

Well I understand now where the problems lays, when I finish current playthrough I gonna reinstall CQM without CE or CompModLite. I found way to Change Beckett dialogs in way to finish gangrel quest as sabbat, during infamous "Wait" dialog.
Spoiler for Hiden:
When he chase player in alley there are two ways to end this dialog. There is also only one line that start clan quest section of dialog in Ventrue Tower (1169). I just copied ending lines, changed output line to 1169, copied conditions from previous line that send you to 1169 and added condition to fire "G.Player_Sabbat == 1" to prevent non sabbat gangrel players from postpone doing earlier stages of quest. I feel proud? I think.
Problem is that it looks little factitious at the first glance, but it's just a silly hack.
I have no idea how to test it because as i already mentioned python is a mistery to me and i don't know if script that start dialog even fire if you sabbat and did joining sabbat or not giving book to Beckett at earlier game state didn't set quest state to unfinished earlier.
I could publish this Beckett.dlg somewhere, but i'm still haven't figure out how add files attachments to forum posts.
I will be very glad if someone could give some clues how to look through game scripts and test that kind of stuff.

One more time thanks for everyone for response. I am aware of fact that my "problems" and unstoppable posts writing may be irritating. My tie to story consistency is created by fact that i never played CQM earlier and that's why i'm so annoying.