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Author Topic: Couple of questions about skinning & PC models  (Read 591 times)

Offline Viatrixa

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Couple of questions about skinning & PC models
« on: January 28, 2019, 04:20:45 PM »
I managed to learn how to switch the posters around - also how to change skins for some npcs. This of course is very simple (and I find it to be quite a bit of fun) but I do have a couple of questions that pertain changing things for PCs and such.

As I understand it, the player models have a kind of a "skeleton", and some some skins I downloaded previously also seem to change this "skeleton". If I decide to skin any PCs, do I have to mess with these too? Talking about what goes in models/character/ etc. (I know you actually change models with via the clando000.txt but this isn't what I'm actually asking)

Otherwise I get the impression that making my own skins for different armors just have to be named right and correspond to the correct number (0,1,2,4) and obviously placed in the correct locations. That having said, is there a way to remove certain parts off of an armor? I know that for example Jeanette's / the female malk's skirt can be removed. How does one go about doing this? Or the hats on the female malk's cowboy outfit, and so on and on etc. I wanna see if I can give the female malk some dashingly tight pants.  :justabite:

Offline Barabbah

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Re: Couple of questions about skinning & PC models
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2019, 05:05:04 PM »
If by skeleton you mean the 3d model yes, textures are only bidimensional images, the game loading the models creates the 3d object then seek in the filepath written inside the texture files. Some reskins (specially the PCs ones) if they need another model they will have to include a copy of the model, and if you want to mantain separate the two reskins (for example, a reskin based on the male tremere for the male malk) you have to edit the model files with the vpk tools to make the alternate model files to seek for different texture files. Otherwise both models, seeking the same textures, will be identical.

Regarding hiding stuff in the models, that's an interesting trick. First editing the texture you have to delete the part of the model you don't want making that area transparent. Look at this example:



The background isn't grey as the page color, simply is not shown. Which program do you use for photo editing?

However, when you manage to do this then edit the .vtm file and add, before the last line with a "}" those lines (without removing the " symbols):

   "$translucent" "1"
   "$nocull" "1"

(If it doesn't work try "$alphatest" instead of "$translucent")
"Some quotations," said Zellaby, "are greatly improved by lack of context."
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Offline Viatrixa

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Re: Couple of questions about skinning & PC models
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2019, 06:15:51 PM »
If by skeleton you mean the 3d model yes, textures are only bidimensional images, the game loading the models creates the 3d object then seek in the filepath written inside the texture files. Some reskins (specially the PCs ones) if they need another model they will have to include a copy of the model, and if you want to mantain separate the two reskins (for example, a reskin based on the male tremere for the male malk) you have to edit the model files with the vpk tools to make the alternate model files to seek for different texture files. Otherwise both models, seeking the same textures, will be identical.

Regarding hiding stuff in the models, that's an interesting trick. First editing the texture you have to delete the part of the model you don't want making that area transparent. Look at this example:



The background isn't grey as the page color, simply is not shown. Which program do you use for photo editing?

However, when you manage to do this then edit the .vtm file and add, before the last line with a "}" those lines (without removing the " symbols):

   "$translucent" "1"
   "$nocull" "1"

(If it doesn't work try "$alphatest" instead of "$translucent")

Yeah! I did mean the 3D models by skelly. The way I understood this is that the textures are flat, but their shapes "wrap" around and onto the 3d models which is how and why we can make nifty skins!

As for what program I use, I use gimp like a looser!

I'm a bit confused though, are you saying that I can just "delete"  the texture for the skirt and this makes the in game model for it transparent?

Offline Ghanima_Atreides

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Re: Couple of questions about skinning & PC models
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2019, 06:24:58 PM »


I'm a bit confused though, are you saying that I can just "delete"  the texture for the skirt and this makes the in game model for it transparent?

Yes, as long as the background remains transparent and you add those lines Barabbah mentioned to your .vmt file.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 06:43:36 PM by Ghanima_Atreides »
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But stranger still is
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Offline Viatrixa

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Re: Couple of questions about skinning & PC models
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2019, 06:30:36 PM »


I'm a bit confused though, are you saying that I can just "delete"  the texture for the skirt and this makes the in game model for it transparent?

Yes, as long as the background remains transparent and you add those lines Barabbah mentioned to your .vtm file.

This would easily work on Jeanette, seeing as her skirt is an actual entity - but it wouldn't work on the ladymalk, would it?

Edit: By .vtm you mean .vmt ?
Edit 2: Also, forgot to mention - yikes, pedobear!
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 06:33:28 PM by Viatrixa »

Offline Ghanima_Atreides

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Re: Couple of questions about skinning & PC models
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2019, 06:33:04 PM »
I'm pretty sure it would, but obviously that might leave you with unsightly gaps in the model...

I once tried an edit of the PC's nails (long story...lol) and accidentally chopped off part of her thumb.  :haw:


Edit: yes, sorry, I did mean .vmt
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 06:46:19 PM by Ghanima_Atreides »
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But stranger still is
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Offline Viatrixa

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Re: Couple of questions about skinning & PC models
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2019, 06:54:22 PM »
Honestly this "make it transparent" sounds... suspiciously easy, could someone show an example of this?  :chinscratch:
Edit: Also just in case someone wonders why I wanna see if I can chop off the skirts - I wanna try skinning some awesome pants onto the lady malk. Though I'm suspicious of how successful this might be now. I haven't really seen her with "pants" on (unless you count the final armor!)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 06:59:04 PM by Viatrixa »

Offline Ghanima_Atreides

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Re: Couple of questions about skinning & PC models
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2019, 07:06:20 PM »
It's not mine, but here's Jeanette without her skirt:



She isn't wearing pants, exactly, but the principle is the same. :P

Edit:

Sorry, when you said "lady malk" you were talking about the PC Malkavian? In that case I don't know how it would look if you made the skirt invisible, probably not well, there would be gaps and such...I don't know I haven't worked with it.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 07:12:27 PM by Ghanima_Atreides »
Strange is the night where black stars rise,
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But stranger still is
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Offline Viatrixa

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Re: Couple of questions about skinning & PC models
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2019, 07:46:37 PM »
It's not mine, but here's Jeanette without her skirt:



She isn't wearing pants, exactly, but the principle is the same. :P

Edit:

Sorry, when you said "lady malk" you were talking about the PC Malkavian? In that case I don't know how it would look if you made the skirt invisible, probably not well, there would be gaps and such...I don't know I haven't worked with it.

Yes sir, I did mean the female malk PC. Like I said thinking about it now I've never seen a reskin of her with "pants" that have been skinned onto her armor 0. May have to just opt to work with the armor 4 model. Thanks for the response anyway! Guess I'll have to try another idea!

Offline Ghanima_Atreides

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Re: Couple of questions about skinning & PC models
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2019, 08:15:57 PM »
Good luck, looking forward to seeing your work!  :vampsmile: Working with armor model 4 is probably a better idea if you want pants.

P.S. I'm not a sir, though. :P
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Offline Barabbah

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Re: Couple of questions about skinning & PC models
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2019, 10:16:21 PM »
Yeah! I did mean the 3D models by skelly. The way I understood this is that the textures are flat, but their shapes "wrap" around and onto the 3d models which is how and why we can make nifty skins!

As for what program I use, I use gimp like a looser!

I'm a bit confused though, are you saying that I can just "delete"  the texture for the skirt and this makes the in game model for it transparent?

1. Yes (trying to explain it I only made it more confusing :facepalm:)
2. Citing the awesome Dr. Krieger, "Me too!"
3. Yup. And most importantly, you can also remove pieces from a single texture. Look here:

If you remember the original malk 4th armor you may remember his hat. The texture of the whole model is made of one single texture. The maker of this reskin simply made a transparent hole where there was the hat section, added the lines in the .vmt file and the hat was removed. This process has three small drawback. First, the model doesn't remove the invisible part, it just became invisible. Zooming with the camera as closest to the pc as possible and rotating into the hat place the camera will enter it and show the hat less transparent (I don't know how to explain it better, you should try it for yourself). Second, but I don't know if happens to anybody else, the shadows draw also the invisible parts. Third, some parts cannot be removed. Well, they can but it don't work well. You wanto to cut the beard to Jack? Behind it there's a hole in the model, hidden by the beard and without it is the really creepy sight of a broken model
(depending of the cases it can be so glitchy as this classic bug....)

Edit 2: Also, forgot to mention - yikes, pedobear!

I love black humour. It's like legs: not everybody has it.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 04:35:07 AM by Barabbah »
"Some quotations," said Zellaby, "are greatly improved by lack of context."
― John Wyndham, The Midwich Cuckoos
"fuck the hole in the face"
― me

Offline Viatrixa

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Re: Couple of questions about skinning & PC models
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2019, 01:20:51 AM »
Yeah! I did mean the 3D models by skelly. The way I understood this is that the textures are flat, but their shapes "wrap" around and onto the 3d models which is how and why we can make nifty skins!

As for what program I use, I use gimp like a looser!

I'm a bit confused though, are you saying that I can just "delete"  the texture for the skirt and this makes the in game model for it transparent?

1. Yes (trying to explain it I only made it more confusing :facepalm:)
2. Citing the awesome Dr. Krieger, "Me too!"
3. Yup. And most importantly, you can also remove pieces from a single texture. Look here:

If you remember the original malk 4th armor you may remember his hat. The texture of the whole model is made of one single texture. The maker of this reskin simply made a transparent hole where there was the hat section, added the lines in the .vmt file and the hat was removed. This process has three small drawback. First, the model doesn't remove the invisible part, it just became invisible. Zooming with the camera as closest to the pc as possible and rotating into the hat place the camera will enter it and show the hat less transparent (I don't know how to explain it better, you should try it for yourself). Second, but I don't know if happens to anybody else, the shadows draw also the invisible parts. Third, some parts cannot be removed. Well, they can but it don't work well. You wanto to cut the beard to Jack? Behind it there's a hole in the model, hidden by the beard and without it is the really creepy sight of a broken model
(depending of the cases it can be so glitchy as this classic bug....)

Edit 2: Also, forgot to mention - yikes, pedobear!

I love black humour. It's like legs: not everybody has it.

Ahhh, I see - I downloaded that skin and took a look in the viewer and true enough, there's a hole where the hat is.

Edit: Well! I got it to work! Sadly as someone warned it doesn't look right:



BUT! At least I got this to work and in doing so I learned a neat trick.

I get what you mean with the hat  :smile: Mister Malk's extra wobbly pimp hat is just a ghost. So if you activate anything that has a graphical aura effect the silhouette will still show, same with the shadows. Still, a fun little trick to know anyway!

 :chinscratch: well, I guess that means I'll have to make some cute skirts and use the biker armor for pants! Thank you all :) I think I know what I'm doing, finally.

ACK! So sorry Ghanima_Atreides, I mean 'dam in that case then!
« Last Edit: January 30, 2019, 01:40:34 AM by Viatrixa »

Offline Ghanima_Atreides

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Re: Couple of questions about skinning & PC models
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2019, 09:14:31 AM »
No worries.  :vampwink:

And ack, I had a feeling there would be gappage...had an idea too, if you wanted you could still work with the 1st outfit and go with a "skirt over pants" look?

For example:



(Not these particular styles, just to illustrate the point)

You could perhaps shorten the skirt too, without removing it completely so that the model remains intact.


Just an idea.
Strange is the night where black stars rise,
And strange moons circle through the skies,
But stranger still is
Lost Carcosa.

Offline Barabbah

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Re: Couple of questions about skinning & PC models
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2019, 01:12:28 PM »
Or making it the lower part of a jacket....
"Some quotations," said Zellaby, "are greatly improved by lack of context."
― John Wyndham, The Midwich Cuckoos
"fuck the hole in the face"
― me

Offline Viatrixa

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Re: Couple of questions about skinning & PC models
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2019, 08:01:16 AM »
No worries.  :vampwink:

And ack, I had a feeling there would be gappage...had an idea too, if you wanted you could still work with the 1st outfit and go with a "skirt over pants" look?

For example:



(Not these particular styles, just to illustrate the point)

You could perhaps shorten the skirt too, without removing it completely so that the model remains intact.


Just an idea.

Yeah, I'll just work with the skirt for now! I have a couple of ideas. If I wanna give her pants I can always use the biker outfit as a base. I don't think a jacket would look very good  :chinscratch: but it's also certainly an idea to try.

A friend said that if I really wanted to I could just chop off the part of the skirt that moves and simply texture the static part as that's the one that causes the gap but I'm not sure I'd have the patience for that. I gotta see what works I guess!