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Offline [archive] Not_Beckett

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Re: CompMod Beta 4 Tester Invitation
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2009, 12:59:00 am »
                @Dheu
 
 Is there any standard you used when choosing who to make available as companions?  There are a few folks I'd have liked to see usable, and was wondering if it was possible to add more in the future.                        

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] Dheu

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Re: CompMod Beta 4 Tester Invitation
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2009, 02:31:00 am »
                3 factors: technical, logical and audio quantity
 
 Technically speaking, the NPC has to be capable of speech (Not all models have bones in the mouth.. like some of the dancers and the PC player models). Luckily this is pretty easy to figure out. All NPC's that talk have a .dlg file in the vampire/dlg sub directories.
 
 The second factor is logical. I can't allow you to make LaCroix a companion because he is too vital to the plot. Some plot characters could become available after the game is done with them... or you could remove them from the plot. I did this with Damsel by recreating all of her end of game plot conversation with Jack.  
 
 Finally, splicing the audio together for a companion requires samples of audio. This was the reason I decided not to use Mitnick. I had forgotten that most of your interaction with him is done via email. So there just wasn't enough audio to work with.
 
 Different people will use this mod in different ways. Some people will let the companions do all the fighting, other people will possess companions and play the game pretty much from start to finish using someone elses body. (basically using the companion mod as sort of a model changer mod). And then there are the loner types who may find some joy in tricking vampires into drinking the blood of the AC, but have no interest in actual traveling companions.
 
 I try to support all the different play styles. For the people that want to use CompMod as a glorified model changer script, I provided outfit support. What most people dont realize is that the outfit system is flexible. If it detects a new model in one of your companions directories, you can ask your companion to change to that model. But who said the model had to look anything like the original companion? I could make Heather look like the Sherif if I threw the sherifs model into Heathers model directory.
 
 There are at least 3 people who I would like to make companion options for verison 2.0. Tung, the mafia boss and possibly Venus. I have also had a request to make Killer an option. And I dont see any issue with these. On the other hand, if someone wants to play the game as the Sherif, Nines or Jack... they will just have to make a special outfit pack for one of the existing companions.                        

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] Not_Beckett

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Re: CompMod Beta 4 Tester Invitation
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2009, 04:34:00 am »
                I'd like to see Mercurio or Barabus--not sure you'd be able to work with Barabus because of his limited time, but Mitnick would be great too.
 
 Another question, but I'll send it to a PM for you...spoiler.                        

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] Wesp5

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Re: CompMod Beta 4 Tester Invitation
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2009, 07:06:00 am »
               
Dheu posted:

 There are at least 3 people who I would like to make companion options for version 2.0. Tung, the mafia boss and possibly Venus. I have also had a request to make Killer an option.

 
 I don't think Tung would follow a fledgling like yourself ever which probably would be true for Tourette as well, but I like the idea with the Killer because he obviously needs directions.
 
 Update: I finally was able to watch your first YouTube video and noticed that you need to trick vampires into being your companions with this artifact. Clever idea but I don't really like it. It would probably have been better to only get companions that would help you out without such a Deus-Ex-Machina or is this WOD lore? Also there are some issues with turning Therese: 1) When talking with her as Vandal she calls him Childe, is this correct for a Ghoul? 2) The name of the barkeeper is Cal. 3) How is she supposed to know that you possessed Vandal? And with Damsel, I don't think Nines, Skelter and Jack would allow Damsel to be shot down in their own backyard by an alleged spy of the Camarilla...                        

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] Not_Beckett

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Re: CompMod Beta 4 Tester Invitation
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2009, 10:43:00 am »
                While I agree with Wesp on a few facts here (I'd like to see folks willing to go with you as quest rewards or with a high enough social skill), gotta work with what you got, hehe.  If you do figure it out though, more power to you.
 
 Edit: I've been thinking more and more on it, and I'd really love to see Trip as a companion.  I've had my friend draw countless nerdy pictures of Trip canoodling with the female Tremere, and I'd love to be able to seduce him out of there.  Just a thought. happy  After Merc is unlocked as a vendor, Trip is pretty useless in Santa Monica anywho...unless you're me and you just like to go and gaze at him.
 
 Oh right.  I'm a girl.  Just too lazy to change my settings, blahaha!                        

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] Dheu

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Re: CompMod Beta 4 Tester Invitation
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2009, 12:36:00 pm »
                > I don't think Tung would follow a fledgling like yourself ever which
 > probably would be true for Tourette as well
 
 In the readme, I talk about how the mod started off as a Ventrue mod. Originally, there was not going to be an artifact, you were going to have to play as Ventrue and you were simply going to use dominate. I remember fighting the bomber guy and LaCroix talking to me through him and that is what gave me the idea. I wanted you to be able to collect servants and fight people from afar (probably in a safer location) through possession. Basically I wanted to empower a Ventrue PC with the same kind of capabilities as LaCriox appeared to have.
 
 I thought the idea through and began the mod partially because the whole mindless servant spin was going to make it easier to program. Many people dont realize it, but Zombie games are popular because developers dont have to spend a lot of time developing AI. And the same can be said here... my attraction to the project was the fact that I wouldn't have to spend countless hours splicing audio together. Mindless servants require less interaction and dialog work. So despite what some people may think about the mod and me... the mindless spin was mostly driven by requirements, timelines and the availability of audio to work with. (Making friendly companion options like Yukie and Heather takes a lot more time and effort). In fact, Yukie and Heather are the only friendly options. Everyone else in the game (version 1.0) is a forced companion, wether you use mind control powers on them or not.
 
 > noticed that you need to trick vampires into being your companions with this artifact. Clever idea but I don't really like it.
 
 I am not dead set on mindless servants, in fact I think the game could use a lot more willing companions, but I am simply not willing to spend the time to develop all that audio interaction. I believe as time goes on, people will add more and more willing companions. Lord knows, the initial mod offers enough unwilling companions...
 
 > 1) When talking with her as Vandal she calls him Childe, is this correct for a Ghoul?
 
 Probably not, but she doesn't say the word "Ghoul" anywhere and I couldn't put the word together using the available material in such a way that would work in a sentence. It was the best thing available that indicated verbally that she was recognizing Vandal as someone other than the PC.
 
 2) The name of the barkeeper is Cal.
 
 Depends on your source. His name changed during development and he is referenced in different ways from the original source code. Sometimes he is Sal and sometimes he is Cal. Besides, he is never talked about in the game anyway. Originally the dialog didn't have the bartender bit in and I got confused reactions from people who didn't know who I was talking about.
 
 Still.... I guess to avoid arguement, I can remove the name. Probably should just say "the bouncer" to be clear.
 
 > 3) How is she supposed to know that you possessed Vandal?
 
 In the response (which you can barely read in the video), you tell her that you possessed her Ghoul and you mention her killing her sister. There is only 1 person who knows that... Simply put, she figures it out.
 
 > And with Damsel, I don't think Nines, Skelter and Jack would allow Damsel to be shot down in their own backyard by an alleged spy of the Camarilla...
 
 I disagree. The music in the bar is loud enough that no one would hear the fight and the location is close enough that she would probably just slip out without telling anyone. If I made it far away, there is little probability that she wouldn't tell someone she was heading out. Besides.. it is easy to get lost in downtown. I am trying to avoid a pile of "Where is Damsel" emails... The alley behind the bar was risky enough... =)
 
 The reason the mod is called CompMod not something more majestic is because it is more of an infrastructure upgrade. For example, the original game only allowed 4 responses. I add objects to the game that support dynamically expanding dialogs. Possession is as much an interface for seeing your companion's stats as it is a combat strategy. And to integrate possession into the game, you have to create reaction tables so that people like Therese can recognize their own ghoul. The game also can force unpossession if you attempt to talk to someone that creates an awkward dialog. So every .dlg file in the game has been revamped to call CompMod functions and possibly bail if a reaction issue is found. LaCroix and Jack always talk to you as if you are the protagonist, so the game forces unpossess if you try to talk to those people.
 
 Things like factions, reaction tables, dialog engine improvements, a config file specifically for mods that allows easy external configuration... These are the things that Xaltar is talking about when he says it paves the way for future mods. VTMB was not inherantly made for mods. And non of the patches address this issue. CompMod does. I did write the VTMB Developers Guide afterall, so all the cool little tricks I learned along the way are built into this mod. (Like the ability to detect weapon fire events and figure out who is under the PC's cross hair... etc).
 
 In the end, I added the plot device (AC) to open up parties to all clans and also to address those issues where someone wants to make a companion out of someone who wouldn't normally join your party. You think there are logic errors now? Imagine the issues people would have if there was no AC. If you limit yourself to people who would travel with a fledgling willingly, you would have 3 to 5 ugly and unpopular companions. =) All in all, the final implementation is the culmination of a years worth of hard decisions.                        

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] Not_Beckett

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Re: CompMod Beta 4 Tester Invitation
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2009, 12:59:00 pm »
                Okay, I'm trying a fresh install.  None of the companions seem to want to come with me, and I'm not getting an option to send them to my haven!  sad                        

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] Wesp5

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Re: CompMod Beta 4 Tester Invitation
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2009, 02:03:00 pm »
               
Dheu posted:

 Basically I wanted to empower a Ventrue PC with the same kind of capabilities as LaCriox appeared to have.
 

 
 Wouldn't it be more logical then to use some kind of Domination artifact? Maybe this exists in the WOD?
 
 
posted:

 I thought the idea through and began the mod partially because the whole mindless servant spin was going to make it easier to program.
 

 
 Ah, but wasn't it much more work to do all the dialogue for the Therese and Damsel tricks to work out happy ?
 
 
posted:

 Probably not, but she doesn't say the word "Ghoul" anywhere and I couldn't put the word together using the available material in such a way that would work in a sentence.
 

 
 I suspected that, better leave Childe out then.
 
 
posted:

 Still.... I guess to avoid argument, I can remove the name. Probably should just say "the bouncer" to be clear.
 

 
 Just call him barkeeper or bartender instead.
 
 
posted:

 I disagree. The music in the bar is loud enough that no one would hear the fight and the location is close enough that she would probably just slip out without telling anyone.
 

 
 Sorry, but upstairs the music isn't loud enough to suppress an auto-shotgun wink !
 
 
posted:

 For example, the original game only allowed 4 responses. I add objects to the game that support dynamically expanding dialogs.
 

 
 How did you do that? I would just jump to other lines in the dlg, does it work that way?
 
 
posted:

 In the end, I added the plot device (AC) to open up parties to all clans and also to address those issues where someone wants to make a companion out of someone who wouldn't normally join your party.

 
 I know, but this looks a lot to me like all the people asking for more disciplines and more xp and more money to get their ueber-vampire. I mean your mod is fantastic, but you almost made it a little bit over the top with all those possibilities!                        

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] Not_Beckett

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Re: CompMod Beta 4 Tester Invitation
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2009, 04:39:00 pm »
                Bleh.  Did a fresh install...same deal as before.  I can enchant the companion, but they won't follow me.  
 
 SPOILERS AHEAD
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Vandal looks like he tries, gets stuck, and then he just won't come at all.  Knox makes no movement to come, and Carson just dashed out of the room like a bat out of hell.  I can tell Knox and Vandal to come with me, but nothing happens.  Knox calls me master and everything...I just don't get it.  I don't get an option to send them to my haven at all.                        

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] XaItar

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Re: CompMod Beta 4 Tester Invitation
« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2009, 06:53:00 pm »
                Did you install the official 1.2 patch before you installed Comp mod?                        

 

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Offline [archive] nuclear_blast_beat

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Re: CompMod Beta 4 Tester Invitation
« Reply #40 on: February 19, 2009, 07:17:00 pm »
                What will happen if I instal the mod over the 6.0 patch? I haven't played VTMB in a long time and I wanna try everything new, so, if those two are compaitable it would be awesome. Cheers to all the people who keep this one of a kind game alive!                        

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] Not_Beckett

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Re: CompMod Beta 4 Tester Invitation
« Reply #41 on: February 19, 2009, 07:50:00 pm »
                "Did you install the official 1.2 patch before you installed Comp mod?"
 
 I'm playing through Steam, so it should come with the 1.2.  I have no other mods but 1.2 and the CompMod.                        

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] Dheu

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Re: CompMod Beta 4 Tester Invitation
« Reply #42 on: February 19, 2009, 07:58:00 pm »
                > Wouldn't it be more logical then to use some kind of Domination artifact?
 
 One of the things I liked about the AC is the fact that it presents a challenge. Where would the challenge be in providing an artifact that was basically instant companion? Besides, if you gave players a domination artifact, they would demand access to domination lines throughout the whole game.  
 
 > Ah, but wasn't it much more work to do all the dialogue for the Therese and Damsel tricks to work out  ?
 
 Most of what you see with Jeanette and Therese would be needed regardless of how the final transition played out. It would be pretty easy to add a few final options to say... Jeanette's dialog so that you simply ask her to come along rather than trick her into drinking the blood of the AC. The intimidating part is the expectation that comes with a fully aware and willing Jeanette. People would expect commentary, new conversations, etc... So I traded 4 lines of evil transition for 25 lines of friendly banter.
 
 The other issue is the Pose System. Do you think companions of sound mind and body would allow the PC to pose them around their haven like trophies?... Probably not. The mindless servant aspect prevents other logical issues with the mods features.
 
 > I suspected that, better leave Childe out then.
 
 So if Therese had said "What brings you back to my domain"... you would realize that she thinks you are Vandal? No... it would be way too confusing. I am not saying that "Childe" is a great solution, but it is the best available. If someone splices me an audio file that is better, I will be glad to patch it in, but Childe stays for now. Besides, it is only 1 of about 6 approaches, so the possibility of people coming across this line are actually pretty remote.
 
 > Just call him barkeeper or bartender instead.
 
 Bartender it is.
 
 > Sorry, but upstairs the music isn't loud enough to suppress an auto-shotgun!
 
 Then I suppose I should be glad you moved everyone downstairs. =) Given the politics surrounding things, even if they did know about it, do you really think the Anarchs would join a fight with the Prince's fledgling... especially one that you dont start? Remember, the PC is all talk, Damsel is the one that strikes first... this is the very thing that Skelter talks about if you provoke him. The difference is that Damsel is a little more hot headed than Skelter.
 
 Besides... who says you have to use a shotgun?
 
 > How did you do that? I would just jump to other lines in the dlg, does it work that way?
 
 Its my secret. I guess you will just have to download the mod and see for yourself =P
 
 Actually the method is described in the VTMB Developers Guide. Little functions you put in each
 dialog that track the number of lines that have displayed and automatically make the 4th one "<More>"
 that links. it is very important in mods like mine where you have so many different things that could
 display in your companions dialog depending on :
 
 How many outfits they have
 Are they human... can you feed... do you need to wait before you can feed again...
 Do they have conversation lines (Yukie and Heather)
 etc...
 
 > I know, but ... you almost made it a little bit over the top with all those possibilities!
 
 And people are still asking for more companion options. =)
 
 I admit, the mod can give the player an upper hand because the game wasn't designed for 3 fighters. However, there are lots of play styles to consider. Some people will still fight solo, wether they leave the companions at the haven or use possession. And despite all the changes, one thing I didn't mess with was Experience. At best, companions give you a glimpse of what each class can do, but to really go all out, you still need to play the game as a specific clan.
 
 Since I force unpossess when you talk to important characters, you are not going to get the Nosferatu or Tremere haven\quests in a single runthrough using this mod. (Though you might using your Plus Patch wink  ). Point is, people still have to play through several times to experience everything. If anything, the mod offers the equivalent of a self-governing difficulty level. A concept that was never included with the original game but is standard in all modern titles.                        

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] Dheu

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Re: CompMod Beta 4 Tester Invitation
« Reply #43 on: February 19, 2009, 08:14:00 pm »
                Install on top of 6.0 = bad idea. If you play this mod, following the installaltion instructions on the website... TO THE LETTER.
 
 WILLING COMPANIONS:
 -- -----------------
 Gave this a little bit more thought today. If friendly companion simply means a willing transition dialog and 3 different random opening lines that imply no control, then it wouldn't be too hard.
 
 Jeanette : As Wesp pointed out, she complains about being "So lonely"... she would likely come along just to get out and do something.
 
 Knox : I would never personally make him a companion, but he is a goofball that would likely come along if you asked him too.
 
 Vandal : Probably wouldn't follow PC as a human, but would gladely volunteer to be PC's one "embrace" option. Acutally this would be REALLY easy to do as the opening lines would even stay the same. The main thing Vandal would need to be a willing embrace option would be a new model + skin. The whole hospital outfit just doesn't cut it.
 
 Damsel : Would come along, but probably not till the end (before griffith park) when it might mean helping Nines.
 
 Ash: Probably the easiest one of all to convert to willing. All he really needs is a different transition line and a few different opening lines.
 
 Barabus: Kind of late game for a comp option, but I agree, he would probably come along since the PC saves him. I would have to actually make him a companion option first.
 
 As for the Pose System, I could do what I do with Yukie... have willing companions refuse to be posed. I would leave in the ability to make them unwilling companions for people that really want to be able to pose the companion around the haven.
 
 Anyway, the good news is that dialog additions and changes dont break save games, so I can add more willing companions in a post 1.0 release patch. I am not going to let any last minute additions like this delay the release any more than it has been delayed.                        

 

                                                  

Offline [archive] Not_Beckett

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Re: CompMod Beta 4 Tester Invitation
« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2009, 08:20:00 pm »
                Dheu--would it be possible to do Trip at all?  I'm am majorly in love with that guy, and I'd like to play a whole game with just my female Tremere and him.  I'm such a nerd!  Hahah...He's got enough dialogue options that it might be possible.  And he's my favorite NPC.
 
 Also, don't diss on Knox. :<  He's a character for us ladies.  
 
 And why the hell does it still say I'm male in my profile?  It won't save the change.                        

 

                                                  

 

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