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Author Topic: Clan Gargoyles  (Read 5658 times)

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Offline [archive] arathalion_5

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Re: Clan Gargoyles
« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2006, 08:49:00 AM »
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     no, they could not have gotten the more social aspects or subtler things into the game.
     
     for instance, how would you do dementation, presence... especially summon and vicissitude correctly? there are other things ass well.
     
     and yes, i know why allot of it was not fixed.                        

     

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    Offline [archive] Offkorn

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    Re: Clan Gargoyles
    « Reply #16 on: December 25, 2006, 10:07:00 AM »
                    In Reply To #16
     
     They had no need to do all of Vicissitude's effects, since you couldn't play as a Tzimisce, they also had no need to code in every Discipline in the game. Could that be done? Certainly, but that would be a job for the Modders. See Redemption for a good example of Devs only making what was needed while the community made what was left out.
     
     I'm not complaining about the lack of Disciplines, I'm complaining about the way they utterly butchered the standard Disciplines. How you can defend their slip-shot/incompetent handling of the Disciplines as 'limitations of the system' I have no idea. The system is far from limited, their implementation/understanding of that system is what was flawed.
     
     How would the correct versions be implemented you ask? Take a look at the WoD Mod for Redemption, that's how they'd be implemented.
     
     ---------------------------
     
     Rather then keep as true to the Disciplines as possible, Troika decided to make them all balanced and equal. They didn't even attempt to implement the Disciplines correctly, as they wanted every build to be equally viable. While that's a great idea for a game with no RP aspects or history behind it, it's a mortal sin for an RPG with a deep and detailed past. To compound this, they used an engine they didn't make, making it so there was no possibility of salvation by the Modding community.
     
     Plain and Simple: They fucked up. Thankfully, they won't get to repeat this tragedy.                        

     

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    Offline [archive] arathalion_5

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    Re: Clan Gargoyles
    « Reply #17 on: December 25, 2006, 10:23:00 AM »
                    In Reply To #17
     im not defending them, im defending my own statement, and i only made it cause that other guy was pissing me off.
     
     i understand what your complaining about, and indeed i would join you.
     
     as for the WoD mod, i haven't tried it, but i tried WtD, and i wasnt sure how much better it could get... but i couldnt find a working download link dor WoD mod.
     
     and yes, but they should code in the disciplines that npcs use, apposed to scripting them.
     
     the only thing i am saying is the first line in the above post
     "they could not have gotten the more social aspects or subtler things into the game."
     which basically hinges on the ai.
     
     though i think i might go and try to download WoD mod again at somepoint.
     
     
     
     "Rather then keep as true to the Disciplines as possible, Troika decided to make them all balanced and equal. They didn't even attempt to implement the Disciplines correctly, as they wanted every build to be equally viable."
     and can you stop telling me what i already know please                        

     

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    Offline [archive] Offkorn

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    Re: Clan Gargoyles
    « Reply #18 on: December 25, 2006, 11:42:00 AM »
                   
    arathalion posted:
    im not defending them, im defending my own statement, and i only made it cause that other guy was pissing me off.

     
     You're not? What about your post right before this one?
     
     

    "no, they could not have gotten the more social aspects or subtler things into the game.
     
     for instance, how would you do dementation, presence... especially summon and vicissitude correctly?"

     
     That is a defense of Troika's incompetance. They could have, they chose not to.
     
     

    the only thing i am saying is the first line in the above post
     "they could not have gotten the more social aspects or subtler things into the game."
     which basically hinges on the ai.

     
     They did get the subtler aspects into the game, they made dialogue checks. That was a perfectly acceptable solution. That's not the issue however, the issue is the complete butchering of the Disciplines main/basic effects (combat and non-combat alike).
     
     

    "Rather then keep as true to the Disciplines as possible, Troika decided to make them all balanced and equal. They didn't even attempt to implement the Disciplines correctly, as they wanted every build to be equally viable."
     and can you stop telling me what i already know please

     
     I'd love to stop telling you things you already know, as soon as you can show you actually know them. Defending Troika, for whatever your reasoning, indicates that either: A) You don't know, or B) You're being purposely hypocritical in order to win an argument with 'someone who was pissing you off'.                        

     

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    Offline [archive] arathalion_5

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    Re: Clan Gargoyles
    « Reply #19 on: December 25, 2006, 11:15:00 PM »
                    In Reply To #19
     
     defending my self
     
     "That's not the issue however, the issue is the complete butchering of the Disciplines main/basic effects (combat and non-combat alike)." well then i agree with you
     
     closer to b... but that "person that was pissing me off" wasnt you... just to clarify, they guy with 6 or 7 posts, all of which i read and where rather rude and unsubtle...
     
     im sorry i can view this in a detached manner because i dont actually care that much. and dont think it is a big deal. im sorry that i can see why they wanted to "balance" it, i dont agree with them, but i can see why they did it.
     
     please stop taking it personally, i havent attacked you.
                           

     

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    Offline [archive] Offkorn

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    Re: Clan Gargoyles
    « Reply #20 on: December 26, 2006, 06:29:00 PM »
                   
    arathalion posted:
    defending my self

     
     "They" != "I".
     
     

    closer to b... but that "person that was pissing me off" wasnt you... just to clarify, they guy with 6 or 7 posts, all of which i read and where rather rude and unsubtle...

     
     I never said it was me...I know precisely who you were talking about, and you were apparently making hypocritical statements simply because you didn't like his attitude. Nevermind that his attitude was perfectly correct.
     
     

    im sorry i can view this in a detached manner because i dont actually care that much. and dont think it is a big deal. im sorry that i can see why they wanted to "balance" it, i dont agree with them, but i can see why they did it.

     
     I have no idea what you're talking about here. If you were detached, you wouldn't have defended Troika simply because someone said no one in this thread knows what they were talking about regarding the WoD.
     
     If you want to be sorry about something, you should be sorry about defending Troika solely to chastise someone whose attitude you didn't like.
     
     

    please stop taking it personally, i havent attacked you.

     
     I never said you attacked me, nor did I ever imply that I was 'taking things personally'. To take things personally I would have to have been involved, which I wasn't.
     
     You involved yourself by responding to another member in a fashion that defended Troika. I'm simply exposing your comments for the purposeful hypocrisy they are.                        

     

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    Offline [archive] arathalion_5

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    Re: Clan Gargoyles
    « Reply #21 on: December 26, 2006, 09:09:00 PM »
                    In Reply To #21
     sorry, it sounded like you where taking it personaly... or perhaps that is the wrong term for the statement.
     
     i just had a problem with the guys tone. all 6/7 of his posts where like that and i might have been in a bad mood.                        

     

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    Offline [archive] Luella63421844

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    Clan Gargoyles
    « Reply #22 on: December 31, 2006, 11:54:00 AM »
                    In Reply To #22
     
     Just in terms of sheer lore, a 'clan' of Gargoyles looks a bit difficult to justify. How do they maintain masquerade points? Or humanity? Do they spend most of their existence pretending to be ugly statues hanging off the sides of ugly buildings, creaking into life when nobody's looking to do a fine bit of innocent rampaging before anyone notices?
     
     Other than the silliness of it, it sounds like a fun mod. You'd want a lot af angry cops around to cope with an increasingly tough monster stomping around the streets. Try not to step on the daisies.  happy
                           

     

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