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Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines => Bloodlines Modding => Topic started by: atrblizzard on January 26, 2015, 02:13:11 am

Title: Canned map
Post by: atrblizzard on January 26, 2015, 02:13:11 am
Oh wow, forgot I had this map floating around in my hard drive for years, mainly started working on it for Resurgence then slowly forgot about it. Managed to get them compiled with the Unofficial SDK after a few fixing on the map. Either way, here are some of the shots, even if they are mostly just a few blocked out buildings with dev textures.

(http://files.atrblizzard.com/sharex/bloodlines/demo_balcony0007_thumb.png) (http://files.atrblizzard.com/sharex/bloodlines/demo_balcony0007.png)

(http://files.atrblizzard.com/sharex/bloodlines/demo_balcony_0009_thumb.png) (http://files.atrblizzard.com/sharex/bloodlines/demo_balcony_0009.png)

(http://files.atrblizzard.com/sharex/bloodlines/demo_balcony0013_thumb.png) (http://files.atrblizzard.com/sharex/bloodlines/demo_balcony0013.png)

(http://files.atrblizzard.com/sharex/bloodlines/demo_balcony0017_thumb.png) (http://files.atrblizzard.com/sharex/bloodlines/demo_balcony0017.png)
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Zer0Morph on January 26, 2015, 03:24:45 am
Awesome!! Could these be used in Bloodlines (regular Source version)?
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: atrblizzard on January 26, 2015, 04:05:49 am
Oh, but this is being used in regular Bloodlines, hence the "compiled with Unofficial SDK". :) I honestly can't remember where I wanted to go with this map, probably some courtyard like map to have a custom Haven for a specific clan on it.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Zer0Morph on January 26, 2015, 05:25:56 am
Oh, but this is being used in regular Bloodlines, hence the "compiled with Unofficial SDK". :) I honestly can't remember where I wanted to go with this map, probably some courtyard like map to have a custom Haven for a specific clan on it.

Why aren't you and Wesp working together building "Act 5" of Bloodlines. Actually, could I hire you two to make maps for TFN?  :rock:  HAHA
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: DiamondBorne on January 26, 2015, 09:10:35 am
Very cool, VTMB needs more vertical map.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: atrblizzard on January 26, 2015, 10:19:01 pm
Why aren't you and Wesp working together building "Act 5" of Bloodlines. Actually, could I hire you two to make maps for TFN?  :rock:  HAHA
It's been a long time since I've done any maps for any Source game, feels a bit cumbersome to come from modeling back to using Hammer, but nevertheless think it's a good opportunity to brush off the dust on Hammer and try to finish up the map. I remember the countless frustrations I had with Hammer when working on Resurgence under Alien Swarm. That used to crash at least 20 times a day, but so far the unofficial SDK proves to be stable on custom maps that aren't decompiled from Bloodlines. :)
I would have probably considered it an option if my time and work wouldn't be caught up already. I'll consider working on it just for fun and see where it'll lead me, and will keep posting future screenshots during it progresses.

Very cool, VTMB needs more vertical map.
Agreed, there are bound to be some maps that break that concept and try to do something different. If we focus too much on what is lore and what isn't, we'll loose a lot of freedom in creativity that allows us to go with the flow.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Wesp5 on January 27, 2015, 10:12:35 am
That used to crash at least 20 times a day, but so far the unofficial SDK proves to be stable on custom maps that aren't decompiled from Bloodlines. :)

Yeah, I noticed this too. As soon as you open some decompiled map the crash frequency rises sharply. Still Hammer crashes a lot for my taste anyway, especially when creating new entities or changing entities. It's easier to just copy and paste them!

Quote
I'll consider working on it just for fun and see where it'll lead me, and will keep posting future screenshots during it progresses.

Cool! Any infos about your new project or will you wait until Antitribu is released? I still could imagine you doing a true sequel to Bloodlines, or an "act 5" as Zer0 calls it for good old Bloodlines itself. You're probably the best Source mapper we have :)!
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Zer0Morph on January 27, 2015, 07:19:23 pm
Cool! Any infos about your new project or will you wait until Antitribu is released? I still could imagine you doing a true sequel to Bloodlines, or an "act 5" as Zer0 calls it for good old Bloodlines itself. You're probably the best Source mapper we have :)!

I couldn't agree more, Wesp! Arthur's work with Vaulderie blew my mind, so much that I downloaded Unity this week and began learning how to use it along with Java Script (which would replace Python). If the community ever decided to create additional maps for Source I would be interested in creating an 'Act 5' however in the meantime, I'd like to continue learning Unity for a new project entirely.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: DiamondBorne on January 28, 2015, 04:27:29 am
So, right now it's easier to create entirely new map than changing or editing an existing map?
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: atrblizzard on January 29, 2015, 05:19:01 pm
Yeah, I noticed this too. As soon as you open some decompiled map the crash frequency rises sharply. Still Hammer crashes a lot for my taste anyway, especially when creating new entities or changing entities. It's easier to just copy and paste them!
Sadly the same issues arise on newer versions, especially when using the Properties window. Mainly has to do with the way keyvalues are read but it can also be model rendering issue.

Cool! Any infos about your new project or will you wait until Antitribu is released? I still could imagine you doing a true sequel to Bloodlines, or an "act 5" as Zer0 calls it for good old Bloodlines itself. You're probably the best Source mapper we have :)!
It'll have to wait until Antitribu is released, before any official announcement on it. :) As for a sequel, that's going to take a lot longer than you'd think with the current toolset we have. Unless it'll spark enough interest to extend the unofficial SDK and add proper model/VPK support. Making it easy friendly certainly has its benefits.

I couldn't agree more, Wesp! Arthur's work with Vaulderie blew my mind, so much that I downloaded Unity this week and began learning how to use it along with Java Script (which would replace Python). If the community ever decided to create additional maps for Source I would be interested in creating an 'Act 5' however in the meantime, I'd like to continue learning Unity for a new project entirely.
Nice to see others diving into Unity, especially being influenced by the work put on Vaulderie. :) Once you go full Unity there's no return, so don't blame me if going back to Source is going to be a drag, haha.

So, right now it's easier to create entirely new map than changing or editing an existing map?
It's easier in the sense that what you create is not a decompiled map, and thus it doesn't have such issues that show up during decompilation, such as lost brushes, missing entities or anything that would break the map.

Now for the fun part, been working a bit on it. Got to texture most of the part, but there's just something about the textures that don't fit in well at all. Might need to restructure them but for now I just go with the flow.

Massive gallery with cheap lighting incoming:
(http://files.atrblizzard.com/maps/bloodlines/screenshots/demobalcony1f0008_thumb.png) (http://files.atrblizzard.com/maps/bloodlines/screenshots/demobalcony1f0008.png)

(http://files.atrblizzard.com/maps/bloodlines/screenshots/demobalcony1f0009_thumb.png) (http://files.atrblizzard.com/maps/bloodlines/screenshots/demobalcony1f0009.png)

(http://files.atrblizzard.com/maps/bloodlines/screenshots/demobalcony1f0010_thumb.png) (http://files.atrblizzard.com/maps/bloodlines/screenshots/demobalcony1f0009.png)

(http://files.atrblizzard.com/maps/bloodlines/screenshots/demobalcony1f0011_thumb.png) (http://files.atrblizzard.com/maps/bloodlines/screenshots/demobalcony1f0011.png)

(http://files.atrblizzard.com/maps/bloodlines/screenshots/demobalcony1f0013_thumb.png) (http://files.atrblizzard.com/maps/bloodlines/screenshots/demobalcony1f0013.png)

(http://files.atrblizzard.com/maps/bloodlines/screenshots/demobalcony1f0014_thumb.png) (http://files.atrblizzard.com/maps/bloodlines/screenshots/demobalcony1f0014.png)

(http://files.atrblizzard.com/maps/bloodlines/screenshots/demobalcony1f0015_thumb.png) (http://files.atrblizzard.com/maps/bloodlines/screenshots/demobalcony1f0015.png)

(http://files.atrblizzard.com/maps/bloodlines/screenshots/demobalcony1f0016_thumb.png) (http://files.atrblizzard.com/maps/bloodlines/screenshots/demobalcony1f0016.png)


Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Nigama on January 29, 2015, 06:33:34 pm
I like it!
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Blood of Nightmares on January 29, 2015, 07:22:34 pm
Seems like creating new maps is now 'possible' but question is, will even anyone bother with this? Also I don't think adding/creating new material (weapons, characters, etc) is even possible either with model swapping.

I'm sorry but without Project Valudrie, regardless of legal issues (which was a coward move bowing down to them instead of fighting them) I don't see anything of this going any further. Unless there's any work being done on Project Rava which I haven't heard anything about since then since creating new material is tedious and people would end up abandoning it I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Leorgrium on January 29, 2015, 07:33:57 pm
 :holy: looks amazing....Great job Arthur as always:)
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: atrblizzard on January 29, 2015, 07:46:38 pm
Seems like creating new maps is now 'possible' but question is, will even anyone bother with this? Also I don't think adding/creating new material (weapons, characters, etc) is even possible either with model swapping.

I'm sorry but without Project Valudrie, regardless of legal issues (which was a coward move bowing down to them instead of fighting them) I don't see anything of this going any further. Unless there's any work being done on Project Rava which I haven't heard anything about since then since creating new material is tedious and people would end up abandoning it I'm afraid.

Creating maps for Bloodlines was always possible since the unofficial SDK was released, else there wouldn't be the library map or any other, just that it's rather tedious and has a lot of instability issues. Creating new materials was again possible else mods and reskins would have never been existed. Adding new models is where the real issue is, you're limited to same vertex limit or simpler prop models.

Associating myself with the project would bring more setbacks in the future, something I wouldn't want to go for. As for the new project, as stated earlier, more will be unveiled after Antitribu is released.

Also noticed someone on Twitter posted about it. Just a little heads up, this is not an unfinished level made by Troika, it's just a small project I started up long time ago and thought on picking up. :)

I like it!
:holy: looks amazing....Great job Arthur as always:)
Thank you, hopefully I'll get something planned out off this concept and get to do some quests or something unrelated to the main game, as a side dish.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Malkav on January 29, 2015, 09:51:27 pm
Looks really good.

For quests. Well, there are people out here who can script a quest if they have a map. Problem as always is voice acting and lip files.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Zer0Morph on January 29, 2015, 11:47:57 pm
Arthur,

That map looks amazing! I just spilled a little 'stuff' in my pants.  :rock:

Looks really good.

For quests. Well, there are people out here who can script a quest if they have a map. Problem as always is voice acting and lip files.

I can do the voice acting and lip files, I've proven that. It would be great to have cut scenes, this is where I fall short personally.

We have the talent, check this out.
Maps - Arthur
Python - Malkav
Models/Textures - Lenuska
Dialogue/Voice/Lips - Zer0
Cutscenes - Burgermeister
Other stuff I can't think of right now - Wesp (sorry, LOL)

Act 5, let it begin!
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Blood of Nightmares on January 30, 2015, 12:50:32 am
Creating maps for Bloodlines was always possible since the unofficial SDK was released, else there wouldn't be the library map or any other, just that it's rather tedious and has a lot of instability issues. Creating new materials was again possible else mods and reskins would have never been existed. Adding new models is where the real issue is, you're limited to same vertex limit or simpler prop models.

That there, is what I was trying to explain where the main problem lies with Bloodlines and I said many times before and I'll say it again, without Project Valudrie you could might as well consider Bloodlines (or any hope of a WoD computer game) a dead game with no future unlike say Oblivion/Skyrim or even Doom....

There was a future that Bloodlines had but CCP killed it and worse of all, if there was any choices available the fact is you may have took the easy way out and allowed it to happen instead of trying out alternatives like fighting CCP which I think you couldn't do but maybe you should have done. Or maybe CCP in the first place should have allowed this project to happen and maybe even going you legal right to do it (like Transfusion with Blood) but nope apparently the only "closest" communication that CCP has with the community that has been shown so far is a C&D letter which not only says alot, but also it shows how much they "care" about the WoD property and especially it's community which is none.

I'm sorry but I'm feeling extremely pessimistic (if not and honestly incredibility pissed off) over this whole ordeal but the point is, CCP first canceling the MMO and then C&D Project Vauldrie clearly shows a really bad track record which is not a good sign at all where their real interests lie.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: DiamondBorne on January 30, 2015, 05:11:20 am
Quote
Associating myself with the project would bring more setbacks in the future, something I wouldn't want to go for. As for the new project, as stated earlier, more will be unveiled after Antitribu is released.

I hope you stick around the VTMB modding scene too  :smile:

Unless ofcourse, this new project requires more commitment to it than the last one.

Quote
That there, is what I was trying to explain where the main problem lies with Bloodlines and I said many times before and I'll say it again, without Project Valudrie you could might as well consider Bloodlines (or any hope of a WoD computer game) a dead game with no future unlike say Oblivion/Skyrim or even Doom....

 Stop shouting the air like a goddamn Brujah. Project Valderie is dead and will not come back. Even if by some miracle the whole team got back together and do it again, Project Valderie won't be the same because their interest probably died the moment they receive the C&D letter.

 
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Malkav on January 30, 2015, 08:14:33 am
Right, Blood of Nightmares, if you can't do anything but badmouthing bloodlines and the community, go away.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Blood of Nightmares on January 30, 2015, 04:47:32 pm
Right, Blood of Nightmares, if you can't do anything but badmouthing bloodlines and the community, go away.

What I'm saying is that without Project Valudrie, since you can't truly add new content to Bloodlines without 'replacing' things (read swapping models/etc), I'm just trying to remind you that there is little reason to bother with the vanilla game at all given it's serious lack of modding compatibilities (even with the SDK) and any chances and possibility of new content are extremely limiting if not predictable so the best option is to abandon bloodlines to see for what it is.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Zer0Morph on January 30, 2015, 05:55:12 pm
I understand what Nightmare is saying, he's basically saying that the future of Bloodlines with our currently existing broken Source engine is very limited compared to what we could do had we successfully ported Bloodlines over to Unity.

If we take a step back and compare the 2 options, here is what have.

Bloodlines on Unity
- Updated graphics and shadows
- Unlimited modding potential
- Creating it would take some time to develop, so it wouldn't be ready for awhile
- Once it's complete, fighting a legal battle with CCP

Bloodlines on broken Source
- Outdated graphics
- Limited modding potential, however we can still create maps, new quests, fully voiced NPCs, etc...
- No legal issues to deal with
- Everything is ready to go, no further developing needed, we can start making mods right now

So as you can see, both options have its good and bad with it. Probably the biggest problem with Unity Bloodlines is CCP. If we could circumvent the legal issues, then it's just a matter of time before we have a ported version of Bloodlines over to Unity.

I have to disagree that the future of Bloodlines is dead if we stay with the broken Source engine, however we are limited. As technology increases, the out of date graphics will become more and more apparent and the current way we create content for Source Bloodlines is long, tedious, and frustrating. If we could get around the legal issues with CCP, Unity Bloodlines is the clear choice for the future of Bloodlines.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Wesp5 on January 30, 2015, 08:44:57 pm
If we could get around the legal issues with CCP, Unity Bloodlines is the clear choice for the future of Bloodlines.

I still think this is not the real problem here! The library and atrium maps in the UP show that you can create cool new maps already. The CQM shows that you can create cool new quests already. The TFN and Antitribu mods show that you can create cool new clans already. The Arsenal Mod shows that you can create new weapons already. The Companion Mod shows that you can create companions already. Most the above show that you can create new NPCs, cutscenes and more already.

So why do we have no real expansions or more mods? Granted, you would need to replace some weapons or items, but there were a lot of them free in the original game. Granted, there are problems creating new models but reskinning NPCs and other stuff is possible. The WoD atmosphere in Bloodlines is great anyway, so why change this completly in the first place?

I think the problem are people like Blood of Nightmares. They expect that everything is served to them on a plate by others instead of doing something themselves! So please tell me, Blood of  Nightmares, how much Unity modding experience do you have? Would you have created a mod for Project Vaulderie? If so, what were your plans? Tell us something constructive!

As for Unity against Source, I think Source has been modded more than every other engine except older ones like Doom or Quake! It may slowly get outdated from a graphical point of view, but I haven't yet seen one Unity game that matched the quality of HL2 or Bloodlines! Also there haven't been as much mods and maps around for much better engines, like the Cryengine or the UDK. Maybe the latter as well as the Unity engine are better for Indie games, but for fan made maps, expansions and mods staying close to the original games, nothing contemporary can beat Source! Check out PlanetPhillip.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Zer0Morph on January 30, 2015, 08:54:05 pm
Wesp,

You're right that there's still plenty of stuff we can do with the current version of Source, I mean would could essentially create an Act 5 from a technical stand point, we just need the right people to stand up and agree to it.

The main draw to Unity for me is simply the updated graphics and shadowing. The screenshots from Vaulderie looked amazing along with the new radial disciplines menu, etc... We can simply do so much more but even if we couldn't, just the graphical upgrade is enough to sign me up. If Unity isn't an option, we still have our good ol' fashioned Source that we know works and new content CAN be created for it, albeit it's very tedious and frustrating.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Wesp5 on January 30, 2015, 08:58:16 pm
The main draw to Unity for me is simply the updated graphics and shadowing.

Maybe, but still I haven't yet played one Unity game that actually looked better!

Quote
The screenshots from Vaulderie looked amazing along with the new radial disciplines menu, etc...

Well, I was not at all interested in that! Bloodlines should look like Bloodlines with all the gothic playful glory of the HUD and everything. Minimalistic interfaces like PV showed already looked completely out of place in Thief 4 and would do so in any Bloodlines sequel or similar IMHO. Maybe they would fit a cool new sterile modern vampire game, but not a Bloodlines mod!
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: YamiRaziel on January 30, 2015, 10:07:13 pm
Actually guys, I would like to point out something, even though I'm not a modder.

The main issue of the modding scene is not the limitations of Bloodlines, but how divided you all are.
We've all played Wesp's UPs, Malkav's CE, Zer0's TFN, Burger's CQM, Dheu's companion mod and we'll all play Antitribu if it's ever released. Note, however, that even though most of you share knowledge with each other, you haven't done a single project together. Even though Malkav and Zer0 are both TCE and helping each other all the time, they're still developing 2 separate Bloodlines mods.

I think that should you all combine your knowledge, skills and dedication into one mod, that will be the best and most professional mod ever released. The biggest problem is that you all have your own vision of the game and you won't work out a compromise

Going to a better engine won't change a thing, unless you learn to work together. That's my opinion at least.

In order to team up, however, I think that you'll need a couple of Project Managers and Coordinators, people highly respected in this community, whom you'll trust to carry out the vision of the mod you'll all start with. No modder can make decisions on his own, else fights will start before you even start working together.

I hope you're not offended by this. I'm sure that all of the community will back me up on saying that we feel nothing but pure respect for the hard work and love you've showed to this game and its fans.

The facts remains, however, that nothing will really make the Bloodlines modding scene go to the next level, nothing but all you guys, working together towards a common goal.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Zer0Morph on January 30, 2015, 10:12:34 pm
The main issue of the modding scene is not the limitations of Bloodlines, but how divided you all are.

I hate to say it but he's right.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: YamiRaziel on January 30, 2015, 10:28:36 pm
The future of Bloodlines is in your hands, guys. We can't do anything, but support you.

It's up to you!
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Raziel on January 30, 2015, 11:10:39 pm
Right, Blood of Nightmares, if you can't do anything but badmouthing bloodlines and the community, go away.

What I'm saying is that without Project Valudrie, since you can't truly add new content to Bloodlines without 'replacing' things (read swapping models/etc), I'm just trying to remind you that there is little reason to bother with the vanilla game at all given it's serious lack of modding compatibilities (even with the SDK) and any chances and possibility of new content are extremely limiting if not predictable so the best option is to abandon bloodlines to see for what it is.
Get a grip, man  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Zer0Morph on January 31, 2015, 12:39:47 am
This is off topic, but are Raziel and YamiRaziel the same person? Just curious...  :chinscratch:
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: YamiRaziel on January 31, 2015, 02:04:07 am
Yes, he is my second personality. I'm the better one though (No, we've not the same person)

Why would two people call themselves with the same name if they're not the same person?
1. We're apparently not very original when creating usernames
2. This exists - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DOKzTHaPfM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DOKzTHaPfM)

This is actually the beginning of Vampire the Masquerade  :razz:
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Malkav on January 31, 2015, 08:19:35 am
The main issue of the modding scene is not the limitations of Bloodlines, but how divided you all are.

I hate to say it but he's right.  :facepalm:
Yes, he is right. The problem is, we all have our vision about bloodlines, and they are not compatible.
I must admit, I'm not too happy with TFN, and lost interest in Wesp's patch when he started the discipline changes. So a combined mod would probably be something I don't want to play.
Basically, creating a combined mod would be like having a ship with four captains and no crew...
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Wesp5 on January 31, 2015, 10:06:00 am
Basically, creating a combined mod would be like having a ship with four captains and no crew...

He is a little bit correct. My vision of Bloodlines is fixing bugs and restoring content that Troika was planning or at least thinking about to do.

Also I'm not at all interested in a Bloodlines mod, what I would rather like to see is an expansion pack, a prequel or a sequel, a new story!

This could be based on good old basic patch unmodded Bloodlines to which we all should agree to some extent. I would contribute to this!

As for the changed disciplines of the UP, I consider making this an install option. It seems to work by copying the basic files into the plus version!
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: atrblizzard on January 31, 2015, 12:31:56 pm
You monsters, what have thee done? Once a beautiful exposition, now a pool of misfits ideas and hijackers. Where's Jack when you need him?

Poor Unity, you're being looked down like the last whore in Downtown, it's not my fault you have to suffer from the BSP syndrome.
Unity wasn't built much on the idea on modding a game, but to fully create your own, indie or not, it all comes down to your knowledge and arsenal on how the game is created. Just don't blame of an AAA company like Square Enix wakes up with the idea of bringing a 1:1 port of Deus Ex for mobile to Steam. Just because nobody you know has modding support automatically means the possibility to carry it out isn't there.

I see a lot of discussion regarding moddability on Vaulderie without any official word from us on a broader outline, I might cover this in a future thread on this subject, but what I can say right now is that modding is a different thing outside of Source, and requires you to escape that mindset.

As for mapping, the Unofficial SDK exists for a very long time, but only a few picked it up by now. Planet Philips indeed has a lot of maps, but how many carry out a story? I am not too fond on such maps because the majority I have seen were nothing more than simple maps with no goal. Nothing I've seen so far truly stood out for. How about those who aren't interested in new maps at all? And for Bloodlines, in order to create a fully playable expansion pack you will need more than just maps. It's not your standard FPS game, it's an RPG that requires a much more in-depth integration. The same would apply to Vaulderie.

The current unofficial Hammer is very limited compared to the current ones, it is way more tedious to work with it, no proper visgroup, no cordon tool, and any major debugging features, which unfortunately requires too much work on getting it up-to-date to work and I don't think any of the authors are up to that right now. I will try to find a better solutions for anyone interested in mapping for Bloodlines, but as a friendly advice for someone who has seen through all Source SDK with its flaws and twists, you'd better switch to a new engine. Having no real-time lighting without baking inside the editor without recompiling and opening the game up for every little change is certainly a no-go for 2015.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: No_Mercy on January 31, 2015, 01:08:04 pm
Quote
Also I'm not at all interested in a Bloodlines mod, what I would rather like to see is an expansion pack, a prequel or a sequel, a new story!

This could be based on good old basic patch unmodded Bloodlines to which we all should agree to some extent. I would contribute to this!

As for the changed disciplines of the UP, I consider making this an install option. It seems to work by copying the basic files into the plus version!

I agree.

You have the choice between Basic and Plus Patch.

Basic: If you want to have only the original (with Fixes)
Plus: If you want to have all been covered and unfinished additives.

If then added prehistory or subsequent history as an extension (in a separate mod), this should not be a problem for someone. Who likes Extensions - installs it. Who does not like extensions - do not install
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Zer0Morph on January 31, 2015, 06:10:10 pm
I have to agree with Malkav that we all just have too many different ideas on what we want out of Bloodlines. I would be willing to be a team player for a collaborative project but I certainly wouldn't want to lead it. On that note, I would have to ask myself, what am I getting out of this project, especially if I'm doing the work on a project that I don't really enjoy playing. I suppose I would simply want rights to use any resources we created for TFN without complaint from the creator. That would be my only request for helping out, seems pretty fair.

As far as Unity goes, I've scoured the Vaulderie pages, read everything Webb, Arthur, Teemu and friends posted. Watched the videos, witnessed the head aches and burn outs. And after playing with Unity myself and seeing what all would go into a solid, stable, port from Source to Unity, I decided I want nothing to do with it and I'll stick with the clunky, broken, Source we have now.

Even without multiplayer support, the Vaulderie team were still months if not years away from releasing something to the public and while they did an amazing job with what they had in the short (relatively speaking) time they did it in, going through every map, cleaning it up, fixing the java scripts, dialogues, artwork, etc... would've taken forever. I have much respect for that team and what they were trying to do, but in the end, I'm wondering if that Cease and Desist letter gave them much relief and a 'way out' from continuing. As sad as it was for the team, I'm wondering if in the back of their minds they were thinking, OMG YES! I get my life back! LOL
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Raziel on January 31, 2015, 06:17:46 pm
I have to agree with Malkav that we all just have too many different ideas on what we want out of Bloodlines. I would be willing to be a team player for a collaborative project but I certainly wouldn't want to lead it.

So you are basically saying that you're "Avengers" needs their very own Captain America?
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Zer0Morph on January 31, 2015, 07:01:36 pm
I have to agree with Malkav that we all just have too many different ideas on what we want out of Bloodlines. I would be willing to be a team player for a collaborative project but I certainly wouldn't want to lead it.

So you are basically saying that you're "Avengers" needs their very own Captain America?

Actually yeah, someone would need to step up for that role. My true love always has been and always will be TFN, and most of the work I put into the community will be to further TFN's fun and playability. If being on "The Avengers" gives something back to the community to play, that's awesome and I'd like to be a part of it, as long as I can take a piece of it back to TFN to use on my love child. :)
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Wesp5 on January 31, 2015, 08:13:18 pm
Unity wasn't built much on the idea on modding a game, but to fully create your own, indie or not, it all comes down to your knowledge and arsenal on how the game is created.

That's exactly what I meant and it's probably true for the UDK as well. PV would have been such a project, but the argument that it would have made modding easier isn't valid!

Quote
As for mapping, the Unofficial SDK exists for a very long time, but only a few picked it up by now. Planet Philips indeed has a lot of maps, but how many carry out a story?

Only a few have but then again this is a serious limitation of HL2 where the player can't even talk. I only ever point to it as an example of great Source fan maps!

Quote
The current unofficial Hammer is very limited compared to the current ones, it is way more tedious to work with it, no proper visgroup, no cordon tool, and any major debugging features...

Any chance that you and Pycho-A could get together and modify a newer Hammer version? I don't even know what they did to make the old one compatible with Bloodlines though...
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: YamiRaziel on February 01, 2015, 03:38:59 pm
So Wesp, Malkav, ArtBlizzard, Burger and Antitribu guys, would you be willing to work together as a team towards a common goal if someone is willing to lead such a project?
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Wesp5 on February 01, 2015, 05:49:12 pm
It's not that easy. I would offer to take the lead, alone with the reasoning that whatever a new project would be, it pretty much would start from the latest UP and I know best about that one. Also I'm the oldest one here, and not only in working on Bloodlines ;).

But as far as I know burgerneister is still burned out from Bloodlines, Brad and Marvin will have enough to do after their mods are released and they don't like each other much anyway. Lenuska is hard to reach, Malkav has some own project as far as know and the same is true for atrblizzard...

Also what should this project be? The most realistic considerations I have yet done in that direction were for the prequel EntenSchreck planned, but I don't like the idea to start on something like this as long as EntenSchreck is gone.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Claudia Vonigner on February 01, 2015, 06:26:29 pm
The main issue as it's been said before is that everyone has a very different view of what VtM is. Mostly because VtM was never really fully defined... Now if the system was more easily

The issue with working like a team is that there's very little commitment to each other since it's just a hobby... I offer my help whenever I can, but often enough, sadly, life gets in the way and I sadly fall in the loop of oblivion :/
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: YamiRaziel on February 01, 2015, 06:42:23 pm
Wesp, believe me, I know it's not easy.

If you do not even talk about it, it won't get any easier. Discussing is the first step. Maybe others will join you too.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: DiamondBorne on February 01, 2015, 07:04:16 pm
This new project should warrant a new thread. ^_^
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Claudia Vonigner on February 01, 2015, 08:19:41 pm
Oh about lip files, a French guy made a java script that transforms a dlg file into a lip file.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Zer0Morph on February 01, 2015, 10:59:46 pm
I agree that we should keep discussing it and creating a new thread about it.

Oh about lip files, a French guy made a java script that transforms a dlg file into a lip file.

Claudia, is this true? Can you link me to this script so I can play with it?
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Nigama on February 02, 2015, 02:24:47 am
Also, I'll just throw this out there because I know most of the modders in this community are very hard at work on projects already and have their plates mostly filled, but...

If you want more (_______fill in the blank here_________) support, whether it be map makers or modeling or coding or familiarity with unity, it might be good to make a video tutorial series on at least the basics so that people who do not have many coding or modding skills could learn and gain them.  I think there are a lot of people that would love to help beyond financial support, but simply don't have the skills or know how.

Teach them and you yourselves will have more resources to draw upon.

Nigama
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Ventrueloquist on February 02, 2015, 11:30:54 pm
If someone made a video tutorial of the basics of modding or just something a bit more "Modding Bloodlines for dummies" than Dheu's guide, written or video, that would be great. Trying to mod Bloodlines without much previous experience is like emptying the Pacific Ocean with a tea spoon. It's too daunting and you feel like you're not getting anywhere, like you're stuck on square -157 and can't even get to square one.

I'm working on my very first mod right now. It's a dialogue mod for The Witcher 1 in the vein of the Malkavian Mod for Deus Ex 1. I am nearly finished, just need  to get them to actually speak their edited voice lines, because that's whole point of the mod. Having silent characters just isn't the same in a game with so much wonderful voice acting. I would have done something similar with Bloodlines if I knew how to mod it. With a silent protagonist you've got much more flexibility when creating dialogues, since only one character needs to have their voice files edited in a conversation.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Zer0Morph on February 03, 2015, 12:10:17 am
Dialogue creation with voice editing, lip movements, dialogue, conditions, is VERY daunting to get it perfect and professional, in Bloodlines. It's by far the worst part of the game to mod and create new content. Definitely not fun and I don't recommend doing it. LOL

Stay far Far FAR away from new dialogue in Bloodlines.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Malkav on February 03, 2015, 07:58:44 am
...
Stay far Far FAR away from new dialogue in Bloodlines.  :facepalm:
I wouldn't go that far.
Ok. I have no experience whatsoever with voice recording. And my experience wioth lip files is limited to cutting out a bit of text from a line. If you're lucky, you can find fitting npc lines in existing dialogs. Then it's easy.
But the actual dialog files are rather straitforward in my opinon. Learning the basics took me maybe an hour with Dheu's manual and a dialog file to look into. On the other hand, I have spent some time with Oblivion modding, and I still have no idea how the dialog system works.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: atrblizzard on February 03, 2015, 12:17:52 pm
What if I tell you that everything you used to believe is a lie. What if there's a way to resolve the lip sync issues for new files?

Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines - Custom Lip Sync Test (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi8DXsSy8oY#ws)
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Claudia Vonigner on February 03, 2015, 03:01:51 pm
What if I tell you that everything you used to believe is a lie. What if there's a way to resolve the lip sync issues for new files?

Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines - Custom Lip Sync Test (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi8DXsSy8oY#ws)

This

For the lip helper it's just to have all lip files match new dlg files for translating, sorries :/
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Zer0Morph on February 03, 2015, 04:11:15 pm
What if I tell you that everything you used to believe is a lie. What if there's a way to resolve the lip sync issues for new files?

Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines - Custom Lip Sync Test (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi8DXsSy8oY#ws)

If 'someone' said that to me, then I would ask them 'How did you do it, would you teach me?'

...and how much money are we talking here?  :chinscratch:
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Malkav on February 03, 2015, 06:30:14 pm
I want it. NOW!

Btw, the guy had some interesting things to say.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Wesp5 on February 03, 2015, 07:21:44 pm
I want it. NOW!

Yes. Maybe you can contact Psycho-A to include it into the SDK or even merge it into the dialogue editor already in there!
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: atrblizzard on February 03, 2015, 09:41:47 pm
Unfortunately it'll still require a lot of work as it crashes with loading models or touching any flexes in Faceposer, which is why I believe it was left out in any of Psycho-A's release. I'll try to reach him and see if there is a proper way to load the models both in Hammer and Faceposer as they are both connected to each other.

As for the dialog itself, that was manually edited. The dialog editor included in the SDK isn't much of a help when I need to edit lines or change the actions. It'll definitely need a new tool to handle that properly, and have the option to edit the lip file directly.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Zer0Morph on February 03, 2015, 09:45:55 pm
I installed the SDK for Alien Swarm years ago and tried to get Face Poser to work but never could. I noticed that it requires XP to run and I have 7 now so I probably won't even try it a second time. I've always manually synced each syllable which takes forever, but looks professional when it's done.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: YamiRaziel on February 04, 2015, 03:06:09 am
This thread is officially getting better and better  :smile:
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Malkav on February 04, 2015, 08:08:37 am
...
As for the dialog itself, that was manually edited. The dialog editor included in the SDK isn't much of a help when I need to edit lines or change the actions. It'll definitely need a new tool to handle that properly, and have the option to edit the lip file directly.
Yes, a tool that can handle the lip files while editing the dlg would be great. And I agree, there is no good dialog editor around.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: DiamondBorne on February 05, 2015, 06:17:20 am
This thread makes me think that, will this VTMB modding community will eventually grow larger and become self sufficient to the point that we stop giving a damn about new VTMB games?  :chinscratch:
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Malkav on April 28, 2015, 06:56:26 pm
Artblizzard, can you upload this map somewhere for intersted modders?
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Entenschreck on April 30, 2015, 09:28:58 am
Hello there!
Been some difficult months but as things finally brightened up again, I decided to pick up old habits and pay this forum a visit.
To be honest I haven't read every single post but man, this discussion gets me excited!
The idea of some kind of expansion for bloodlines has been haunting me for about a year now. I was thinking about a prequel which would explain why things are the way they are in Bloodlines. Turf wars between the Anarchs and the Camarilla, the Sabbat's arrival, Bach coming to La, etc...
Way too much for a single modder...

If anyone else is interested in making a team and working on something like this I'd really like to be a part of it.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Wesp5 on April 30, 2015, 10:28:50 am
Welcome back!

The idea of some kind of expansion for bloodlines has been haunting me for about a year now. I was thinking about a prequel which would explain why things are the way they are in Bloodlines. Turf wars between the Anarchs and the Camarilla, the Sabbat's arrival, Bach coming to La, etc...

... the Cabbie coming to LA, planning with Jack and the Cabbie, setting Johansen up to find the sarcophagus and bring it to LA, getting some C4 for Jack, preparing the sarcophagus on the Dane, delivering the key to Ming, finding someone to be caught by LaCroix, etc...
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Malkav on April 30, 2015, 02:19:52 pm
Sounds interesting. Who should be the player character? The sire? Jack? One of Jack's helpers, maybe a ghoul...
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Saphrax on April 30, 2015, 02:47:16 pm
For Bloodlines prequel it would be cool if one or two chapters would be set in Turkey, that would tell how the sarcophagus got out of the country in the first place. With all the diablerist Assamites swarming in Anatolia, I guess it was quite a feat getting it to the US, probably there was some blood spilled.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Wesp5 on April 30, 2015, 09:23:36 pm
Sounds interesting. Who should be the player character? The sire? Jack? One of Jack's helpers, maybe a ghoul...

That's still open. EntenSchreck wanted it to be the sire, but I wouldn't really like the ending of the game then ;). Jack would be cool, but you could only play as Brujah in that case. We never thought about a ghoul, because they wouldn't have full access to disciplines.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Wesp5 on April 30, 2015, 09:24:53 pm
For Bloodlines prequel it would be cool if one or two chapters would be set in Turkey, that would tell how the sarcophagus got out of the country in the first place.

I thought about this as well, but I doubt the Bloodlines textures and models would be good enough to create such levels from scratch. We would need to create some new one then...
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Saphrax on April 30, 2015, 11:31:55 pm
For Bloodlines prequel it would be cool if one or two chapters would be set in Turkey, that would tell how the sarcophagus got out of the country in the first place.

I thought about this as well, but I doubt the Bloodlines textures and models would be good enough to create such levels from scratch. We would need to create some new one then...

Well, I hope it will come to pass sometime in the future.
It would be quite cool to see a joint project with you, Mv, Lenuska, Atrblizzard, that guy from the TFN mod and that guy from the Clan Quest mod working on a sequel/prequel. :) (Sorry if I left out any more noteworthy modders working on Bloodlines)
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Malkav on May 01, 2015, 07:06:11 am
That's still open. EntenSchreck wanted it to be the sire, but I wouldn't really like the ending of the game then ;).
I agree on that. And if you want it consistent with your bloodlines playthrough you have to use the same clan.
Quote
Jack would be cool, but you could only play as Brujah in that case.
This is certainly a severe restriction but there are lots of games where you don't have a choice concerning the player character. And Jack is old enough to have learned one or two additional disciplines.
Quote
We never thought about a ghoul, because they wouldn't have full access to disciplines.
But it would give a new feeling to the game, along with new challenges like finding a vampire when the vamp blood runs low.
And if you introduce another young vampire as player character for the prequel there iss still one question: why doesn't this character go on with the action in LA?
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Wesp5 on May 01, 2015, 10:58:53 am
And if you introduce another young vampire as player character for the prequel there is still one question: why doesn't this character go on with the action in LA?

Because he/she get's killed in the Bloodlines intro ;)! Although LaCroix says he considered the sire a "loyal and upstanding member of our organization" which implies that he knew them better and maybe longer...
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: No_Mercy on May 01, 2015, 11:04:50 am
Quote
Because he/she get's killed in the Bloodlines intro ;)!

Good idea.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Wesp5 on May 01, 2015, 11:07:51 am
Quote
Because he/she get's killed in the Bloodlines intro ;)!

Good idea.

It would be most consistent, but on the other hand who wants to play a character that will be killed for sure? I don't...
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: atrblizzard on May 01, 2015, 12:07:31 pm
Artblizzard, can you upload this map somewhere for intersted modders?

Sure, don't think I'll be getting back to it anytime soon, so I've included the source VMF for it as well. Link (http://files.atrblizzard.com/maps/bloodlines/la_balcony.7z) is here.

It would be most consistent, but on the other hand who wants to play a character that will be killed for sure? I don't...

Far Cry 3, Red Dead Redemption and many more.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Malkav on May 01, 2015, 12:18:34 pm
Thanks for the link. Might be just what I was looking for.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: No_Mercy on May 01, 2015, 12:20:38 pm
Quote
It would be most consistent, but on the other hand who wants to play a character that will be killed for sure? I don't...

Only if one knows beforehand the end. The story would not terminated by the death in Bloodlines. The own bloodline would continue to live.

It's like the movie "Terminator". Only after the death of Michael Biehn, the history is outstanding. If he had survived, it would be a love story among many.

The theme offers many opportunities. Until then, it indeed takes even longer.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Entenschreck on May 01, 2015, 12:37:02 pm
I think the player should be able to choose the clan he wants to play. Which means that the protagonist can either be the sire or a completely unknown vampire and, as Malkav already said, that would raise questions about what that new character's doing during the events of bloodlines.

Just in case some of us really start that mammoth project, I'd vote for the sire to be the protagonist. The sire doesn't need to be killed in the end. The one losing his head could just be a scapegoat. If the Cabbie is actually a malk who knows what he could do with mask of a thousand faces. Maybe have a short cutscene in the end showing the sire writing those emails that come from "a friend".
However, I wouldn't mind letting him die, too. Might even be a setup by Jack and the cabbie. Vampire politics, right?



Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Wesp5 on May 01, 2015, 07:31:56 pm
The sire doesn't need to be killed in the end. The one losing his head could just be a scapegoat.

I'll vote for that! The player is the sire but has to disappear because he knows that LaCroix is suspecting something and plans to kill him. So the cabbie, Jack and he set the scapegoat up instead!

Quote
Maybe have a short cutscene in the end showing the sire writing those emails that come from "a friend".

Now that would be the perfect ending of a prequel :)!

Quote
However, I wouldn't mind letting him die, too.

I still wouldn't really like this, because in difference to the other games mentioned here, everyone playing the prequel knows how Bloodlines starts off. So as soon as it becomes clear that the player is the sire, the cat would be out of the bag...
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Wesp5 on May 03, 2015, 09:38:25 pm
P.S.: Now that EntenSchreck is back, who would like to do something like the Prequel he suggested? I talked with Samspin and we could open a dedicated board here that only people working on it would be able to read. Anyone interested to at least talk about it there? Atrblizzard, Malkav, Zer0Morph, Mv.9?
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Malkav on May 03, 2015, 10:25:09 pm
Sure, I'm in.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Saphrax on June 23, 2015, 06:27:00 pm
Well, this seems the appropriate topic for summing up maps that are new additions of the UP for the game. If I leave out something then please help me out. Also I would be interested in who did what.
- Hallowbrook atrium
- Library
- Library basement
- Grout's Mansion maze
- Sewers shortcut

Also what maps are under development? I only know of the Museum exterior by Entenschrek.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: burgermeister01 on June 23, 2015, 08:12:47 pm
I made the library maps, and I think Entenschreck and Wesp worked on the other ones. As far as I know, those are all the new maps. I am working on a bunch of new stuff for the next CQM though! This new SDK is a god send ... it works so well as compared to the older 0.x versions.

Here's a peek at a new map I'm working on:

(http://media.moddb.com/cache/images/mods/1/13/12404/thumb_620x2000/laundromat0000.jpg)


Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Saphrax on June 23, 2015, 09:53:15 pm
Cool. :)

I guess the nosferatu pc is like "Now where did the laundry guys put my T-shirt?" :D
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Wesp5 on June 23, 2015, 10:51:36 pm
First I must say that Psycho-A and atrblizzard helped optimizing and fixing stuff with most of these maps, like adding cubemaps and more.

- Hallowbrook atrium

The level geometry was created by EntenSchreck, entities, details and scripts were added by myself.

Quote
- Library
- Library basement

This is actually only one map. It was created by burgermeister to a layout of mine and EntenScheck created the cutscene. I myself changed many details later on...

Quote
- Grout's Mansion maze
- Sewers shortcut

Prototypes were created by EntenSchreck before he vanished for some time. I finished both maps by merging two unfinished sewer versions into one shortcut and adding several rooms, among them the daylight atrium, to the maze. I also tried to recreate beta screenshots inside both maps!

Quote
Also what maps are under development? I only know of the Museum exterior by EntenSchreck.

It's not a new map, but atrblizzard, Psycho-A and myself just made the pier end accessible :)!
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: burgermeister01 on June 23, 2015, 10:57:18 pm
Cool. :)

I guess the nosferatu pc is like "Now where did the laundry guys put my T-shirt?" :D

lol, living after midnight is a hard existence, but at least I've got clean clothes.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Saphrax on June 23, 2015, 11:31:20 pm
It's not a new map, but atrblizzard, Psycho-A and myself just made the pier end accessible :)!

Nice! So did you reconstruct it's missing parts? Or was it complete over there, at the end of the pier also? (I remember noclipping there once, but as I recall there were some missing parts.)

Also, are you planning on making the pier accessable from the parking lot's gates? (The spot where the policemen are discussing the gruesome murder.) After the crime scene is cleared it would be logical for the pier entrance to be unlocked.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: mouser9169 on June 24, 2015, 05:27:55 am
Just read through this and two words come to mind:

Parkour Running

Tell me Bloodlines doesn't have all the mechanics in place to make some really cool rooftop or 'vertical' levels. Wouldn't that make a lot of sense for vampires, anyway? Easiest way to stay out of sight is to stay out of the way.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Wesp5 on June 24, 2015, 08:02:10 am
Nice! So did you reconstruct it's missing parts?

Atrblizzard did this while he was working on Resurgence, I adjusted some other stuff and Psycho-A added the rain back in.

Quote
Also, are you planning on making the pier accessable from the parking lot's gates?

No, that would be rather difficult because we would need to change the whole level transition. Also I would guess that the main access to the pier is still closed off during the night, police or not. Right now I'm rather thinking what I can do with it, maybe expend the library quest a little bit so you have actually to visit the open end now. I can't add civilians because of the above and because it's still a combat zone...
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Saphrax on June 24, 2015, 04:55:26 pm
No, that would be rather difficult because we would need to change the whole level transition.

Okay, I don't know much about modding Bloodlines, but I'm always interested in what are those things that are more difficult or maybe impossible to do when it comes to modding the game (like adding more than 7 playable clans or more items). So why is level transition hard to do?
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: burgermeister01 on June 25, 2015, 01:57:08 am
Just read through this and two words come to mind:

Parkour Running

Tell me Bloodlines doesn't have all the mechanics in place to make some really cool rooftop or 'vertical' levels. Wouldn't that make a lot of sense for vampires, anyway? Easiest way to stay out of sight is to stay out of the way.


Hahaha! That would be awesome. It would be tricky to pull off, and pretty much impossible to have someone chase you (I don't think NPCs can jump), but what a rad idea.

You know if you push against a flat wall while running forward in Bloodlines it adds angular momentum to your forward speed =p Reminds me of parkour guys running semi vertically across surfaces...



Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Wesp5 on June 25, 2015, 11:57:28 am
So why is level transition hard to do?

You need to add nodes and triggers on both maps which is hard to do unless you recompile the whole maps or are lucky to find a trigger with exactly the size you need. Also it will mess up the level transitions in case someone uses an old save game from before patching.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: atrblizzard on June 25, 2015, 01:00:57 pm
Okay, I don't know much about modding Bloodlines, but I'm always interested in what are those things that are more difficult or maybe impossible to do when it comes to modding the game (like adding more than 7 playable clans or more items). So why is level transition hard to do?

The main issue with adding more than 7 clans is that they are hardcoded within the game's compiled code, and various functions need the exact value else they wouldn't work. Items are hardcoded, because they are part of the weapon system that wasn't built to be modular (except they are a subcategory of items). You are able to modify it either if you have the entire source code to do, tamper with reverse engineering or create a totally new game similar to it but with flexibility and modularity in mind.

So why is level transition hard to do?

You need to add nodes and triggers on both maps which is hard to do unless you recompile the whole maps or are lucky to find a trigger with exactly the size you need. Also it will mess up the level transitions in case someone uses an old save game from before patching.

All valid points, every entity from the save games are linked to the map's entity ID, if something is changed, it'll be unable to recreate the entity and ending up with all sorts of corruption and bugs.

When I worked on Resurgence having to switch to the Alien Swarm engine (hybrid branch) had a very crucial update to Hammer that made all the work a whole lot easier with instances. You could build an entire map by creating the buildings separately and having them instanced on the main hub map. This would give you not only a cleaner workflow but also easier maintanance.

Which is why I've managed to merge the pier map in Vaulderie with the main hub map a whole lot easier, but unfortunately it presented several inconsistencies, such as the wall near Gimble and the two roads that aren't finished, which would mean access from the garage to the pier from the gate would be impossible without fully remaking the pier.

On that note I've began working on a pier map from the actual Santa Monica pier quite a while ago, but I haven't had too much time to work on it, because recreating it from real life shots can be challenging, not to mention the lack of textures.

Still a lot of work to be done no doubt, but it's always been a fascination of mine to get it done ;)

http://files.atrblizzard.com/videos/newpier.mp4 (http://files.atrblizzard.com/videos/newpier.mp4)
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Saphrax on June 25, 2015, 01:44:43 pm
I see. Is also the number of models hardcoded in the game and is the reason why the mods usually modify existing models? I mean for example, although the new pc models look cool in Antitribu mod, I can see that they are only modified versions of the original pc models. Or would there be a way of adding new models to the game which have new faces, clothes, etc.?

Looking forward to the expanded pier :)
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Wesp5 on June 25, 2015, 02:04:05 pm
Is also the number of models hardcoded in the game and is the reason why the mods usually modify existing models?

No, new models can be added as much as one likes! The problem here is we can't edit models for Bloodlines very well.
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Saphrax on June 25, 2015, 06:41:01 pm
I see.

Anyways, would you guys be interested in expanding the abandoned hospital in downtown LA sometime in the future? :)

(Okay-okay, I get it, this is like the 600th different thing I suggested, that would be awesome to make in Bloodlines, and I know that things like making new maps and models is very time consuming and (maybe?) tedious work. It's a shame that I don't really know much about programming or modding (I think the only thing that was closest to it was making games with ASCII's RPG maker, and even there were things I didn't understand how to do), any other case I'm sure I'd do some Bloodlines modding myself. Actually I have great respect for you guys for expanding the IMO greatest game in all time, so keep up the good work! :) )
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Wesp5 on June 25, 2015, 08:38:38 pm
Anyways, would you guys be interested in expanding the abandoned hospital in downtown LA sometime in the future? :)

EntenSchreck already plans an expanded hospital level for the Prequel :)!
Title: Re: Canned map
Post by: Saphrax on June 25, 2015, 08:47:17 pm
Yay! :)
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