collapse

Author [EN] [PL] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: Canned map  (Read 16177 times)

Offline Malkav

  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 1796
  • Reputation: +392/-13
Re: Canned map
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2015, 08:19:35 am »
The main issue of the modding scene is not the limitations of Bloodlines, but how divided you all are.

I hate to say it but he's right.  :facepalm:
Yes, he is right. The problem is, we all have our vision about bloodlines, and they are not compatible.
I must admit, I'm not too happy with TFN, and lost interest in Wesp's patch when he started the discipline changes. So a combined mod would probably be something I don't want to play.
Basically, creating a combined mod would be like having a ship with four captains and no crew...
Co Author of Camarilla Edition Mod

Offline Wesp5

  • Administratrix
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 6827
  • Reputation: +894/-28
  • Unofficial Patcher
Re: Canned map
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2015, 10:06:00 am »
Basically, creating a combined mod would be like having a ship with four captains and no crew...

He is a little bit correct. My vision of Bloodlines is fixing bugs and restoring content that Troika was planning or at least thinking about to do.

Also I'm not at all interested in a Bloodlines mod, what I would rather like to see is an expansion pack, a prequel or a sequel, a new story!

This could be based on good old basic patch unmodded Bloodlines to which we all should agree to some extent. I would contribute to this!

As for the changed disciplines of the UP, I consider making this an install option. It seems to work by copying the basic files into the plus version!
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 11:43:30 am by Wesp5 »

Offline atrblizzard

  • Administratrix
  • Methuselah
  • *****
  • Posts: 263
  • Reputation: +229/-1
Re: Canned map
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2015, 12:31:56 pm »
You monsters, what have thee done? Once a beautiful exposition, now a pool of misfits ideas and hijackers. Where's Jack when you need him?

Poor Unity, you're being looked down like the last whore in Downtown, it's not my fault you have to suffer from the BSP syndrome.
Unity wasn't built much on the idea on modding a game, but to fully create your own, indie or not, it all comes down to your knowledge and arsenal on how the game is created. Just don't blame of an AAA company like Square Enix wakes up with the idea of bringing a 1:1 port of Deus Ex for mobile to Steam. Just because nobody you know has modding support automatically means the possibility to carry it out isn't there.

I see a lot of discussion regarding moddability on Vaulderie without any official word from us on a broader outline, I might cover this in a future thread on this subject, but what I can say right now is that modding is a different thing outside of Source, and requires you to escape that mindset.

As for mapping, the Unofficial SDK exists for a very long time, but only a few picked it up by now. Planet Philips indeed has a lot of maps, but how many carry out a story? I am not too fond on such maps because the majority I have seen were nothing more than simple maps with no goal. Nothing I've seen so far truly stood out for. How about those who aren't interested in new maps at all? And for Bloodlines, in order to create a fully playable expansion pack you will need more than just maps. It's not your standard FPS game, it's an RPG that requires a much more in-depth integration. The same would apply to Vaulderie.

The current unofficial Hammer is very limited compared to the current ones, it is way more tedious to work with it, no proper visgroup, no cordon tool, and any major debugging features, which unfortunately requires too much work on getting it up-to-date to work and I don't think any of the authors are up to that right now. I will try to find a better solutions for anyone interested in mapping for Bloodlines, but as a friendly advice for someone who has seen through all Source SDK with its flaws and twists, you'd better switch to a new engine. Having no real-time lighting without baking inside the editor without recompiling and opening the game up for every little change is certainly a no-go for 2015.

Offline No_Mercy

  • Methuselah
  • ****
  • Posts: 432
  • Reputation: +2/-0
Re: Canned map
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2015, 01:08:04 pm »
Quote
Also I'm not at all interested in a Bloodlines mod, what I would rather like to see is an expansion pack, a prequel or a sequel, a new story!

This could be based on good old basic patch unmodded Bloodlines to which we all should agree to some extent. I would contribute to this!

As for the changed disciplines of the UP, I consider making this an install option. It seems to work by copying the basic files into the plus version!

I agree.

You have the choice between Basic and Plus Patch.

Basic: If you want to have only the original (with Fixes)
Plus: If you want to have all been covered and unfinished additives.

If then added prehistory or subsequent history as an extension (in a separate mod), this should not be a problem for someone. Who likes Extensions - installs it. Who does not like extensions - do not install
Motto: Show no mercy

Offline Zer0Morph

  • Methuselah
  • ****
  • Posts: 278
  • Reputation: +313/-2
    • Team Camarilla International
Re: Canned map
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2015, 06:10:10 pm »
I have to agree with Malkav that we all just have too many different ideas on what we want out of Bloodlines. I would be willing to be a team player for a collaborative project but I certainly wouldn't want to lead it. On that note, I would have to ask myself, what am I getting out of this project, especially if I'm doing the work on a project that I don't really enjoy playing. I suppose I would simply want rights to use any resources we created for TFN without complaint from the creator. That would be my only request for helping out, seems pretty fair.

As far as Unity goes, I've scoured the Vaulderie pages, read everything Webb, Arthur, Teemu and friends posted. Watched the videos, witnessed the head aches and burn outs. And after playing with Unity myself and seeing what all would go into a solid, stable, port from Source to Unity, I decided I want nothing to do with it and I'll stick with the clunky, broken, Source we have now.

Even without multiplayer support, the Vaulderie team were still months if not years away from releasing something to the public and while they did an amazing job with what they had in the short (relatively speaking) time they did it in, going through every map, cleaning it up, fixing the java scripts, dialogues, artwork, etc... would've taken forever. I have much respect for that team and what they were trying to do, but in the end, I'm wondering if that Cease and Desist letter gave them much relief and a 'way out' from continuing. As sad as it was for the team, I'm wondering if in the back of their minds they were thinking, OMG YES! I get my life back! LOL

Offline Raziel

  • Fledgling
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • Reputation: +3/-1
Re: Canned map
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2015, 06:17:46 pm »
I have to agree with Malkav that we all just have too many different ideas on what we want out of Bloodlines. I would be willing to be a team player for a collaborative project but I certainly wouldn't want to lead it.

So you are basically saying that you're "Avengers" needs their very own Captain America?
huehuehue yeeeaaaaahhhh boiiiii

Offline Zer0Morph

  • Methuselah
  • ****
  • Posts: 278
  • Reputation: +313/-2
    • Team Camarilla International
Re: Canned map
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2015, 07:01:36 pm »
I have to agree with Malkav that we all just have too many different ideas on what we want out of Bloodlines. I would be willing to be a team player for a collaborative project but I certainly wouldn't want to lead it.

So you are basically saying that you're "Avengers" needs their very own Captain America?

Actually yeah, someone would need to step up for that role. My true love always has been and always will be TFN, and most of the work I put into the community will be to further TFN's fun and playability. If being on "The Avengers" gives something back to the community to play, that's awesome and I'd like to be a part of it, as long as I can take a piece of it back to TFN to use on my love child. :)

Offline Wesp5

  • Administratrix
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 6827
  • Reputation: +894/-28
  • Unofficial Patcher
Re: Canned map
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2015, 08:13:18 pm »
Unity wasn't built much on the idea on modding a game, but to fully create your own, indie or not, it all comes down to your knowledge and arsenal on how the game is created.

That's exactly what I meant and it's probably true for the UDK as well. PV would have been such a project, but the argument that it would have made modding easier isn't valid!

Quote
As for mapping, the Unofficial SDK exists for a very long time, but only a few picked it up by now. Planet Philips indeed has a lot of maps, but how many carry out a story?

Only a few have but then again this is a serious limitation of HL2 where the player can't even talk. I only ever point to it as an example of great Source fan maps!

Quote
The current unofficial Hammer is very limited compared to the current ones, it is way more tedious to work with it, no proper visgroup, no cordon tool, and any major debugging features...

Any chance that you and Pycho-A could get together and modify a newer Hammer version? I don't even know what they did to make the old one compatible with Bloodlines though...
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 08:29:57 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline YamiRaziel

  • Neonate
  • **
  • Posts: 60
  • Reputation: +219/-2
  • Redeemer & Destroyer
    • Citadelata - a fantasy based fan site
Re: Canned map
« Reply #38 on: February 01, 2015, 03:38:59 pm »
So Wesp, Malkav, ArtBlizzard, Burger and Antitribu guys, would you be willing to work together as a team towards a common goal if someone is willing to lead such a project?

Offline Wesp5

  • Administratrix
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 6827
  • Reputation: +894/-28
  • Unofficial Patcher
Re: Canned map
« Reply #39 on: February 01, 2015, 05:49:12 pm »
It's not that easy. I would offer to take the lead, alone with the reasoning that whatever a new project would be, it pretty much would start from the latest UP and I know best about that one. Also I'm the oldest one here, and not only in working on Bloodlines ;).

But as far as I know burgerneister is still burned out from Bloodlines, Brad and Marvin will have enough to do after their mods are released and they don't like each other much anyway. Lenuska is hard to reach, Malkav has some own project as far as know and the same is true for atrblizzard...

Also what should this project be? The most realistic considerations I have yet done in that direction were for the prequel EntenSchreck planned, but I don't like the idea to start on something like this as long as EntenSchreck is gone.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2015, 05:53:33 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline Claudia Vonigner

  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 545
  • Reputation: +22/-11
Re: Canned map
« Reply #40 on: February 01, 2015, 06:26:29 pm »
The main issue as it's been said before is that everyone has a very different view of what VtM is. Mostly because VtM was never really fully defined... Now if the system was more easily

The issue with working like a team is that there's very little commitment to each other since it's just a hobby... I offer my help whenever I can, but often enough, sadly, life gets in the way and I sadly fall in the loop of oblivion :/

Offline YamiRaziel

  • Neonate
  • **
  • Posts: 60
  • Reputation: +219/-2
  • Redeemer & Destroyer
    • Citadelata - a fantasy based fan site
Re: Canned map
« Reply #41 on: February 01, 2015, 06:42:23 pm »
Wesp, believe me, I know it's not easy.

If you do not even talk about it, it won't get any easier. Discussing is the first step. Maybe others will join you too.

Offline DiamondBorne

  • Ancillus
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
  • Reputation: +14/-12
Re: Canned map
« Reply #42 on: February 01, 2015, 07:04:16 pm »
This new project should warrant a new thread. ^_^

Offline Claudia Vonigner

  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 545
  • Reputation: +22/-11
Re: Canned map
« Reply #43 on: February 01, 2015, 08:19:41 pm »
Oh about lip files, a French guy made a java script that transforms a dlg file into a lip file.

Offline Zer0Morph

  • Methuselah
  • ****
  • Posts: 278
  • Reputation: +313/-2
    • Team Camarilla International
Re: Canned map
« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2015, 10:59:46 pm »
I agree that we should keep discussing it and creating a new thread about it.

Oh about lip files, a French guy made a java script that transforms a dlg file into a lip file.

Claudia, is this true? Can you link me to this script so I can play with it?

 

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2020, SimplePortal