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Author [EN] [PL] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: Bloodlines SDK  (Read 205152 times)

Offline atrblizzard

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Re: Bloodlines SDK
« Reply #465 on: September 06, 2022, 11:39:57 pm »
Not really related to the topic, however I wasn't sure where to post this now, so here it goes! Also sorry for getting your hopes high thewarsend if you expected something else.

If you were following me on twitter, there were some neat stuff happening. Mostly playing around with a UE5 port of Bloodlines, because why not, have made some pretty good progress recreating a lot of the core parts. You can see it in the the video below.



As S&Box seemed promising a year ago, I came to the conclusion that it wouldn't be the best fit. Yes, it would have been fantastic to use its Hammer editor and the built-in conversion for the contents, but I came to several issues. One being that you can't create standalone games with S&box and the built-in conversion got removed.
All being said, it's always up to the engine makers if it supports certain features and API to allow customizability. So the other route was going with Unreal Engine 5.

So far modding seems very promising. Contents wise that means anything from models to animations to new weapons and clans. The good news is, we got Python working, which enables further scripting. But for now, basic modding support is definitely doable.

There is still a lot to do, adding weapons, third person camera, disciplines, animations, AI, and so on. But for now, enjoy the video and the playlist with full raytracing on.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsPWKk0ivmfmaH4dDvsIsz-VIY4dUuETx

As a disclaimer, this may or may not go anywhere. I'm mostly trying various strengths of Unreal with recreating features from Bloodlines. I thought I'd just share some status about it because some things cannot die.

Offline Barabbah

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Re: Bloodlines SDK
« Reply #466 on: September 07, 2022, 03:59:45 am »

Omg.
This.
Is.
Beautiful.


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Offline thewarsend

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Re: Bloodlines SDK
« Reply #467 on: September 08, 2022, 09:48:37 pm »

Not really related to the topic, however I wasn't sure where to post this now, so here it goes! Also sorry for getting your hopes high thewarsend if you expected something else.

No worries, the moment I saw your name I knew whatever you posted had nothing to do with Bloodlines SDK.


If you were following me on twitter, there were some neat stuff happening.


I was following your twitter a year ago, when some neat stuff was actually happening. As soon as I realized you would abandon the Source 2 port, I stopped watching. I remember being upset with myself for thinking you might actually finish it. I should have known better.




As S&Box seemed promising a year ago, I came to the conclusion that it wouldn't be the best fit. Yes, it would have been fantastic to use its Hammer editor and the built-in conversion for the contents, but I came to several issues. One being that you can't create standalone games with S&box and the built-in conversion got removed.
All being said, it's always up to the engine makers if it supports certain features and API to allow customizability. So the other route was going with Unreal Engine 5.

It didn't just seem promising, it was promising. You made significant progress with it. You will have issues no matter which engine you port it to, so I doubt that has anything to do with it. We both know you could have gotten past majority of those issues either way. I mean, if anyone can, it is you.

Also, you can technically create standalone games with S&box, considering how Source/2 engine works. Game exe runs whichever folder you point it to and there are ways to change that.

I am sure I don't even need to list what the main benefits of porting Bloodlines into Source 2 would be.

So I am just going to mention a few bullet points. Do to its similarities to Source 1, everyone here pretty much understands how Source 2 works, so patching and modding would be a lot easier. Which would mean with Source 2, you would have a community behind it. It may not sound significant but it really is. With any version of the unreal engine, that definitely wouldn't be the case. Not to mention Source 2 has VR support out of the box, which would be an amazing thing to have.


Mostly playing around with a UE5 port of Bloodlines, because why not, have made some pretty good progress recreating a lot of the core parts.


I would argue UE5 isn't the best fit either. It certainly doesn't look or feel right. Unreal engine is like ranch dressing, despite some who may claim otherwise, it doesn't go well with everything.


As a disclaimer, this may or may not go anywhere. I'm mostly trying various strengths of Unreal with recreating features from Bloodlines. I thought I'd just share some status about it because some things cannot die.

In all likelihood, it will not go anywhere. You will abandon it soon enough. As much as I like you and admire your skill, my faith in you finishing a project is zero at this point.

Don't get me wrong, I mean no disrespect. You just have a terrible track record. I just wish you stuck with the Source 2 port, for a hot minute there it looked like you might actually finish it.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2022, 09:53:56 pm by thewarsend »

Offline Barabbah

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Re: Bloodlines SDK
« Reply #468 on: September 09, 2022, 05:55:43 am »
Damn, you are rude.
Give him some credit. If he thinks the source engine is not worth it accept he decided to use Unreal instead.
And sorry for being rude myself  :tongue:
"Some quotations," said Zellaby, "are greatly improved by lack of context."
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Offline thewarsend

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Re: Bloodlines SDK
« Reply #469 on: September 09, 2022, 04:45:32 pm »

Damn, you are rude.
Give him some credit. If he thinks the source engine is not worth it accept he decided to use Unreal instead.
And sorry for being rude myself  :tongue:


Was I little rude? Sure. But being rude and being wrong is not the same thing.

I know it wasn't the nicest thing to say, but even if he doesn't exactly remember me, I have known Atrblizzard since 2008. I have seen him go trough this cycle over and over again. He does this often enough, he tries to port Bloodlines to a new engine, he makes some progress, he gets bored with it, scraps everything and a short while later he tries to port it into a different engine.


At first it was the Bloodlines Revival Project, then it was the Bloodlines Resurgence, but then it was Project Vaulderie. He changed engines three times BEFORE cease and desist even hit. Source 2 and UE5 is only his latest tries.

He either never even intended to finish them, or he can't stay loyal to a single project long enough to finish it. Either way I can't get excided about anything he works on anymore because I am sure even if it looks nice it will never bear any fruit. So posting it here, in a topic he might have helped but didn't, is insulting at best.


Don't get me wrong, I still have a lot of respect for him and his skill, but I just had to say what I have in mind. Stick to a project and try to finish it for once.

Offline Barabbah

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Re: Bloodlines SDK
« Reply #470 on: September 09, 2022, 05:32:09 pm »
Ok, sorry for all I said  :undecided:
"Some quotations," said Zellaby, "are greatly improved by lack of context."
― John Wyndham, The Midwich Cuckoos
"fuck the hole in the face"
― me

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Bloodlines SDK
« Reply #471 on: September 09, 2022, 11:08:40 pm »
Don't get me wrong, I still have a lot of respect for him and his skill, but I just had to say what I have in mind. Stick to a project and try to finish it for once.
In my opinion alone the idea that one person alone could remake Bloodlines in whatever engine is unrealistic and I agree with endthewars that switching engines all the time doesn't help! I believe that Atrblizzard should stick with Source or Source 2 so the modding community could help him out and that he should concentrate on recreating the cut multiplayer side of the game. There is already talk about this in the patch thread and a video from a year ago was posted there showing deathmatch in Santa Monica. Why hasn't this been finished? This is one aspect we pretty much will never be able to do in the original Source version, so here even changing the engine to Unreal might be justified, especially as you probably don't need facial animations in a multiplayer game. So Atrblizzard, please check out the patch thread!
« Last Edit: September 09, 2022, 11:11:52 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline SCO

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Re: Bloodlines SDK
« Reply #472 on: October 16, 2022, 05:37:41 pm »
Respectfully disagree about the engine. There is a lot of 'want games like bloodlines but it's terrible to make new maps or new npcs (or new dialogs)' energy being wasted in my opinion.

The 'best' new mods are the ones that add content, and although it's not 'impossible' to add content to old maps, it's a bit disappointing to see the nth iteration of the same story in the same maps after the highs of the clan quest mod for that type (even that one didn't dare change the hubs to add new doors for some reason), or the prelude mod/WW2 mod for the 'total conversion type'.

If a new engine can use or reuse other, open source maps that make sense for a rpg like bloodlines better than halflife 2 updated or not, that's more than encouraging (as long as the scripts and dialog trees continue to be as full featured, or more).

I don't care about multiplayer and i don't think i'm alone.

I honestly kind of wonder if there is a 'suite' of text to speech voices possible in the near future to automate the creation of 'voice acting'. If not at runtime (to keep download size down) at creation time. That would be a boon for the costs of rpgs and barrier to entry.

I don't think that anyone is particularly enthusiastic about 'deathmatch bloodlines' or about 'new discipline without any new mechanics and only used for combat'. Any new story content that appears in mods like the UP or clan quest is welcome of course, but the 'bones' of the story will always be beachhouse-warehouse-dane-...etc, so people stop playing until something truly new comes out and even when it does (like the east la area in CQM) it's often so late that people don't feel the 'need' to try it out right a way.T

For instance, i played bloodlines prelude right away when it appeared but for CQM new sabbat faction, i'm only playing it now.

Heck, i entertain myself with what some would call 'exploits' or modded cheats after removing bloodheal and bloodbuff (the biggest cheats of them all, right from the start) to maximize the engagement (modded in web college to waste money for instance). Things that make the optimization problem of 'what order to do things to maximize the dots without spending xp' more complex so i can be 'entertained' by thinking about the min-max problem (without writing it out of course).

If you want to make maps 'fresh' again without all that investment, make a loot randomizer mod too (I was very impressed by the prelude 1 approach to random loot based on perception). In short, it spawned a random number of items, ranged by your perception on random places on the map. Although bloodlines engine limit on the number of inventory objects probably sabotages that idea for the main game, idk.

Don't make multiplayer buggy mods on a engine that troika itself gave up on that.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2022, 05:58:23 pm by SCO »

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Bloodlines SDK
« Reply #473 on: October 16, 2022, 10:46:46 pm »
There is a lot of 'want games like bloodlines but it's terrible to make new maps or new npcs (or new dialogs)' energy being wasted in my opinion.
I agree. In my opinion Bloodlines does not need a remake! It needs more content. We are making a prequel, but how about a sequel?

Quote
If a new engine can use or reuse other, open source maps that make sense for a rpg like bloodlines better than halflife 2 updated or not, that's more than encouraging (as long as the scripts and dialog trees continue to be as full featured, or more).
The problem is that the Unreal engine is known to be even less mod friendly than the Source engine Bloodlines uses. I might be mistaken, but somebody please list me all the great new maps for Unreal engine games. I don't know any!

Quote
I don't care about multiplayer and i don't think i'm alone.
I'm not a multiplayer guy myself, which is the main reason why adding anything into that direction to the patch is so slow.

Quote
I honestly kind of wonder if there is a 'suite' of text to speech voices possible in the near future to automate the creation of 'voice acting'.
This might indeed be possible in the near future and we might add voices to the Prelude that way. Still new content must exist before that!

Quote
For instance, i played bloodlines prelude right away when it appeared but for CQM new sabbat faction, i'm only playing it now.
What I don't understand is that it seems as if most people just want to replay the old game again and again instead of new content. Compared to the latest final patch version, Prelude I has less than 10% of the download numbers and even the Clan Quest Mod doesn't reach the same numbers in three years that the patch manages in half a year! This is kind of discouraging to modders creating new content...

Quote
In short, it spawned a random number of items, ranged by your perception on random places on the map.
That feature was either taken from the Camarilla Mod or The Final Nights, the Prelude didn't invent it.

Quote
Don't make multiplayer buggy mods on a engine that troika itself gave up on that.
Troika never gave up on anything, Activision and no time and money made them!
« Last Edit: October 16, 2022, 10:51:16 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline Entenschreck

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Re: Bloodlines SDK
« Reply #474 on: October 19, 2022, 07:57:37 am »
Quote
The problem is that the Unreal engine is known to be even less mod friendly than the Source engine Bloodlines uses. I might be mistaken, but somebody please list me all the great new maps for Unreal engine games. I don't know any!

Personally, I'd prefer an old engine with the ability to produce fantastic facial expressions over a newer engine any time. Well animated faces are a key element of Bloodlines. Just my two cents.

Quote
What I don't understand is that it seems as if most people just want to replay the old game again and again instead of new content. Compared to the latest final patch version, Prelude I has less than 10% of the download numbers and even the Clan Quest Mod doesn't reach the same numbers in three years that the patch manages in half a year! This is kind of discouraging to modders creating new content...

I think that's because people have little interest in a product that isn't even half finished. Prelude 1 is the first of three parts and it's the smallest part, too, when it comes to the amount of new content. Download numbers will rise once Prelude 2 is out. In the meantime I actually don't want the mod to attract much attention. Makes for a bigger bang when Prelude 2 finally gets released.

Quote
That feature was either taken from the Camarilla Mod or The Final Nights, the Prelude didn't invent it.

True, I didn't invent the initial version of it. I think it was Zer0morph's idea and Malkav helped with the python code. I did, however, expand that idea and wrote my own code from scratch, so items are spawned at random locations in order to encourage exploration and make Inspection a more valuable feat to have. I offered my version to Zer0morph, but he declined, which was probably the best decison. The random loot system can be pain in the ass to balance, I'm still tinkering with the ratios. Adding that Bloodlines could easily cause a huge shift to the balancing of the whole game.




 

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