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Author Topic: Bloodlines Santa Monica  (Read 6844 times)

Offline The Shadow Man

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Re: Bloodlines Santa Monica
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2017, 04:50:28 PM »
All I'm saying is that it would be nice to have the option

Offline _IZAC_

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Re: Bloodlines Santa Monica
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2017, 06:05:31 AM »
I don't think it matters too much. People can do as they wish with it - it'd be totally up to wesp if he wanted to include any of them. While I will of course post a .blend with all my updated models my intention is to re-create santa monica in a more modern engine. Really I just like to play with this stuff.

For sure i wouldn't want this to be applied universally. Bloodlines is one of the few 3d games my bad computer can even run, so something that makes its graphics perform worse for frivolous reasons such as 'curved arches' is something i want to avoid.

This is a bit reductionist, adding depth to building facades makes a big difference, more so than the arches in fact. Fixing the uv unwrapping is also a big improvement, they where clearly very stretched for time.

Really though you wouldn't notice almost any difference at all to performance. Generally it's not the amount of geometry you send to the gfx card, but the number of times you send stuff. This is why batching is so important. Since the source engine uses baked static lighting and compiles texture atlases internally one of the few nice things I will say about the "trash" engine is that it batches pretty well. Since the source engine uses 90's technology, BSP and all that, most people find themselves CPU limited anyway, and the extra geometry won't make a blind bit of difference to that.

Either way, back to images. Finished that utility pole.

« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 06:10:11 AM by _IZAC_ »

Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Bloodlines Santa Monica
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2017, 09:23:29 PM »
I wonder what will you do with the pier... it's a very "atmospheric" element. Maybe redesign the scaffolding or some such? ;)
Me: "I love lollipops!"
WoD ST: "We don't allow lollipops, because we are too dark!"

Offline _IZAC_

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Re: Bloodlines Santa Monica
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2017, 09:47:24 PM »
Plan is just follow the same route, add details. The less I try to do the more likely I am to get it done :P

These arches and window frames are all just textured in. Little bit of detail here and there, normal maps specular maps and so on.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/v__/images/c/c8/Santa_Monica_Pier.png/revision/latest?cb=20150827164443&path-prefix=vtmb

I would like to add a room for the psychic though.

Offline The Shadow Man

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Re: Bloodlines Santa Monica
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2017, 10:14:53 PM »
I don't think it matters too much. People can do as they wish with it - it'd be totally up to wesp if he wanted to include any of them. While I will of course post a .blend with all my updated models my intention is to re-create santa monica in a more modern engine.
Sounds like Project Vaulderie, hopefully you don't run into the same issues.

Quote
Really I just like to play with this stuff.
I'd be rather interested to see what you come up with.

Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Bloodlines Santa Monica
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2017, 07:35:41 AM »
Plan is just follow the same route, add details. The less I try to do the more likely I am to get it done :P

These arches and window frames are all just textured in. Little bit of detail here and there, normal maps specular maps and so on.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/v__/images/c/c8/Santa_Monica_Pier.png/revision/latest?cb=20150827164443&path-prefix=vtmb

I would like to add a room for the psychic though.

Fair enough ;) . On a side note, I would also like to see that elusive and enigmatic psychic to "open the doors" finally and gather some cash. Other than that, it is really cool to see the objects detailed a bit, since the mass of small bits usually leads to spectacular results on the whole. ;)
Me: "I love lollipops!"
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Offline _IZAC_

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Re: Bloodlines Santa Monica
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2017, 07:39:52 AM »
Sounds like Project Vaulderie, hopefully you don't run into the same issues.

:P Going for low-key.

Offline SCO

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Re: Bloodlines Santa Monica
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2017, 02:59:10 PM »
Even project vaulderie didn't need to go 'low key'. If people have two games, whatever mods they use to convert one to the other is strictly legal as long as no complete files are distributed.

What project valderie needed was to use binary and text patching (work as normal, distribute like that) to take the original files and transform them into the final result so the game is needed to work and no original files are distributed. That would remove the legal leg that Activision needs to threaten people - it might not stop them because that's oligarchies for you, threatening to ruin you for political pressure, but it would be a legal joke, even in america, home of legal capitalistic interest capture.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2017, 03:05:25 PM by SCO »

Offline The Shadow Man

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Re: Bloodlines Santa Monica
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2017, 03:05:33 PM »
What project valderie needed was to use binary patching to take the orginal files and transform them into the final result so the game is needed to work and no original files are distributed.
If I recall correctly I think that was the plan all along.

Quote
That would remove the legal leg that Activision needs to threaten people - it might not stop them because that's oligarchies for you, threatening to ruin you for political pressure, but it would be a legal joke, even in america, home of legal capitalistic interest capture.
I don't think it was Activision, it was the (now previous) owners of the WoD IP, it's moved around a few times I think.

Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Bloodlines Santa Monica
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2017, 04:00:39 PM »
What killed Vaulderie are the legal acrobatics. Seriously, they prosecuted the team with subtle threats. A shame.
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Offline Signothorn

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Re: Bloodlines Santa Monica
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2017, 02:48:20 PM »
What killed Vaulderie are the legal acrobatics. Seriously, they prosecuted the team with subtle threats. A shame.

Somewhat. If the mod modifies the current game, there will likely be no problems and I'd be happy to promote it. Vaulderie's issues were that AtrBlizzard was transferring the game to another engine.  CCP sent the C&D as they were selling off WW, and Activision may or may not have had a say in it as well. 

Tobias and new White Wolf were ultimately supportive of the idea behind the scenes for the record, and Tobias tried to see whether Activision would allow this solution, and it took forever for them to respond. However, it was Activision which ultimately said no, without much specificity as to why. I know AtrBlizzard was even suggesting to use Steam Workshop as a means to hinder piracy, but it came down to Activision's call. I don't know that the second half of that story had been relayed publicly, but I think it's noteworthy that the new WW is more supportive of community content than CCP and it should improve going forward without Activision. :suicide:

Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Bloodlines Santa Monica
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2017, 07:40:51 AM »
Nevertheless, it's a shame that no compromise could've been made. However, like you said Signothorn, I hope that the future is a brighter one.

Back to the topic at hand ;). I like the work you're putting in this detailing of the game _IZAC_: I prefer the original game plus the UP+, so if you make a patch/mod to add intricate details like these it could be a juicy combo.
Me: "I love lollipops!"
WoD ST: "We don't allow lollipops, because we are too dark!"

Offline SCO

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Re: Bloodlines Santa Monica
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2017, 07:02:50 PM »
But who contacted who? Seriously, this is not the first time i see people making the mistake of contacting IP holders for a 'permission' they didn't need and then crashing and burning when their lawyers whisper 'no'.

Roland and Munt being another notable case, where to this day Dosbox devs are scared away of using the munt library in upstream, leading to ridiculously un-userfriendly workarounds (client-server for mt32 device emulation). Or to sane people using forks ofc.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 07:12:27 PM by SCO »

Offline Signothorn

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Re: Bloodlines Santa Monica
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2017, 01:28:46 AM »
But who contacted who? Seriously, this is not the first time i see people making the mistake of contacting IP holders for a 'permission' they didn't need and then crashing and burning when their lawyers whisper 'no'.

Roland and Munt being another notable case, where to this day Dosbox devs are scared away of using the munt library in upstream, leading to ridiculously un-userfriendly workarounds (client-server for mt32 device emulation). Or to sane people using forks ofc.

I'm not 100% sure who contacted who first. Either way, it was the appropriate thing to engage WW and Activision. Our long standing community has always tried to honor WW's IP and their partnerships. To go ahead and continue the project with CCP's lawyers going after AtrBlizzard at the time, just because he could, would have been beneath what our VtM community would have tolerated. It wasn't about fear with AtrBlizzard's situation, and he held onto his work after the C&D, to show the new WW in their discussions back and forth, which included a video conference(s) between AtrBlizzard and Tobias.

Activision has the publishing rights, and we still don't know entirely if it was Activision in conjunction with CCP sending the cease and desist letter, or CCP alone. When Paradox purchased WW, Tobias tried to reach out to some contacts at Activision to see if they would be open. It took a while to get a response, but Tobias followed up with them frequently while working to staff and rebuild WW. His old contacts at Activision had all left, and re-engaged them. Activision ultimately said no.

It wasn't the result we wanted, but I completely defend going through proper channels, hoping we'd get a result like Blizzard allowing Skywind. It didn't ultimately work out, and everyone was disappointed, but throughout the process I learned that the new WW doesn't just talk about community, they follow through. #FuckActivision

Offline SCO

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Re: Bloodlines Santa Monica
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2017, 06:21:48 PM »
That's my point. Going through 'proper channels' is always a mistake. What do people expect, that the corporate lawyers of the huge corporation answer 'yes' when people ask to make use of their IP, even if they're legally allowed to do so? Of course they say no; even if only to cover their ass. At least sending a actual Cease and Desist order has legal risks and proactivity, so it's less likely to happen.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 06:30:33 PM by SCO »