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Author [EN] [PL] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: Bloodlines Resurgence Multiplayer  (Read 22275 times)

Offline Signothorn

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence Multiplayer
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2014, 10:19:19 pm »
My understanding was AtrBlizzard was intending to have the ported game check for Bloodlines assets (from my recollection of conversations over the years), so it wouldn't be as much a matter of lost revenue. I haven't seen the actual rejection notice, but Activision may have had a say in the call for all I know. I know from conversations I've had with GoG, they have been trying to get Bloodlines for a while now, but have had some issues with Activision. It could possibly because they are DRM free, but that's not verified. Regardless of who the "bad guy" is, I'm sad it ended this way. I'm not questioning WW's ultimate call, I just don't understand how this can get be put to a stop, when CCP/WW didn't go after "Dark" for blatantly ripping off Bloodlines, even with mentions of Bloodlines characters and The Asylum mentioned. There's probably more to it, I just don't understand.

Offline atrblizzard

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence Multiplayer
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2014, 12:37:22 am »
Atr, thanks for all the work, we all owe you thanks to the work you have done.
I think Source is a massive roadblock, I've tried contacting Valve several times on my own for any resources or code, but it seems like they want Source to die, to make place for the next engine.

Thanks Serazahr. As much as they try to support the current Source 1 engine, even with the Source SDK 2013 being out wouldn't change too much for its future. Source definitely shows its age and limitations. Can't blame them, it's been based on Quake engine and just cannot compete with any modern engines like Unreal 4, Crytek and Unity 4.

I can understand that. White Wolf probably still gets some money for every Bloodlines copy sold on Steam and elsewhere, and these are quite a lot of copies during the sales, like on Halloween! You wouldn't be able to demand money for Resurgence but it would still kill of some regular Bloodlines sales.

My original idea which I shared with White Wolf is to set up a Steam only build which can only be accessed to those who own the original game until further methods are found. Those who don't own the game wouldn't see it in their Steam library. That would lock out the retail users but for now that's be one working way. This project is and has been non-commercial since the beginning but that wouldn't mean it'd be for free either. Having it set up on Greenlight would also increase the game's sale. Buy the original and get the remake as an additional bonus content.

I'm not interested in MMOs at all, so even a WoD MMO would not be something for me...

As many others share the same interest, including myself, Bloodlines is great for its own reasons, great writing, a lot of replayability, great RPG mechanics and great single player experience. And I say this for all, seeing how many great games receive remakes over these past few years, and Bloodlines being a great cult, it'd be wrong not to have it fully finished, more or less as the original developers intended, within your help.

The problem is that we already restored everything we know details about and now it would be necessary to move into new territory. Like from the music composer we know that Troika planned a "latino" Eastern Hollywood hub very early on and judging from a lot of oilfield related models, the LA oilfield lies east from Hollywood in the real LA, we could get an overall feeling how this was intended to look, but that's about it. No quests, NPCs, stories and similar are known...

That would be a long shot to realize but it can always be referenced from how it looks in real life. Although I'm interested on what you found so far. I can imagine Troika planned far more than anything you've discovered, but was cut either to get the game finished by time or technical limitation.

My understanding was AtrBlizzard was intending to have the ported game check for Bloodlines assets (from my recollection of conversations over the years), so it wouldn't be as much a matter of lost revenue. I haven't seen the actual rejection notice, but Activision may have had a say in the call for all I know. I know from conversations I've had with GoG, they have been trying to get Bloodlines for a while now, but have had some issues with Activision. It could possibly because they are DRM free, but that's not verified. Regardless of who the "bad guy" is, I'm sad it ended this way. I'm not questioning WW's ultimate call, I just don't understand how this can get be put to a stop, when CCP/WW didn't go after "Dark" for blatantly ripping off Bloodlines, even with mentions of Bloodlines characters and The Asylum mentioned. There's probably more to it, I just don't understand.

That is correct, the way I managed it with Source was always with using the installer to convert the needed assets from the original game, which could only be achieved if you'd own the game, either the retail or Steam version, and would apply further changes to it. With Unity that'd be different. Since developing the project in Unity would mean all assets to be converted to "raw" format, which can be read easily by modeling/texture editing programs. And building the game would include all the assets in its own format, therefore no further way of converting them from the user's end. The only reason I can think of for not have permission given would be of this. But as always, there's way to counter measure that if they truly fear that.

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence Multiplayer
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2014, 07:33:40 am »
Thanks Serazahr. As much as they try to support the current Source 1 engine, even with the Source SDK 2013 being out wouldn't change too much for its future.

My impression was that Valve dropped mod support quite a bit to get the Linux versions out for the upcoming Steam machines. Right now Valve is all about selling games on Steam, they only pimp up mods as a side job ;)!

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My original idea which I shared with White Wolf is to set up a Steam only build which can only be accessed to those who own the original game until further methods are found.

That would have made retail users like myself angry and surely there would have been an easy hack out there soon to get the remake running without the original game!

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And I say this for all, seeing how many great games receive remakes over these past few years, and Bloodlines being a great cult, it'd be wrong not to have it fully finished, more or less as the original developers intended, within your help.

The problem is that not many games get a fan remake. I can only think of Black Mesa and maybe The Dark Mod, but that doesn't include original missions. All others were commercial reboots and most of them utter failures!

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Although I'm interested on what you found so far. I can imagine Troika planned far more than anything you've discovered, but was cut either to get the game finished by time or technical limitation.

The biggest cut thing that we know of is the whole East Hollywood hud, for smaller things check the list at the end of the UP readme. I'm especially curious about the unknown downtown area marked on the hub sewer maps.

It could possibly because they are DRM free, but that's not verified.

I don't believe that. A crack for retail Bloodlines, which probably works on Steam too, has been out for ages!

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I just don't understand how this can get be put to a stop, when CCP/WW didn't go after "Dark" for blatantly ripping off Bloodlines, even with mentions of Bloodlines characters and The Asylum mentioned.

They mentioned Bloodlines characters and The Asylum? I didn't know that. I only noticed that in demo videos a lot of disciplines hat the WoD names, but they changed this for the final game. Might have been WW calling too!
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 07:40:47 am by Wesp5 »

Offline Signothorn

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence Multiplayer
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2014, 05:02:34 pm »

It could possibly because they are DRM free, but that's not verified.

I don't believe that. A crack for retail Bloodlines, which probably works on Steam too, has been out for ages!

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I just don't understand how this can get be put to a stop, when CCP/WW didn't go after "Dark" for blatantly ripping off Bloodlines, even with mentions of Bloodlines characters and The Asylum mentioned.

They mentioned Bloodlines characters and The Asylum? I didn't know that. I only noticed that in demo videos a lot of disciplines hat the WoD names, but they changed this for the final game. Might have been WW calling too!

Hard to say. I haven't been in contact with Gog for a bit, I'll see if I can get an update. As far as the cracked version being out, you're speaking real logic, corporate logic is often very different and when companies are losing money, they tend to tighten their controls on the product.

With the Dark rip off, this is one example that was pointed out to me via facebook, a screenshot from somewhere in the game:

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence Multiplayer
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2014, 09:19:29 pm »
With the Dark rip off, this is one example that was pointed out to me via facebook, a screenshot from somewhere in the game:

Wow, that's obvious. It almost implies that they planned DARK to play in the WoD but then WW stopped them somehow. This time it's a good thing IMHO, because DARK is an awful game and not worth being compared to Bloodlines or Redemption!

Offline wordsmithkid

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence Multiplayer
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2014, 10:29:46 pm »
You should google Dark pic when the character turn on auspex. That seems colorful.

Offline atrblizzard

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence Multiplayer
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2014, 01:08:00 pm »
My impression was that Valve dropped mod support quite a bit to get the Linux versions out for the upcoming Steam machines. Right now Valve is all about selling games on Steam, they only pimp up mods as a side job ;)!
I would have to strongly agree here, Valve is mostly focusing on bringing gaming to Linux with their SteamOS and also focusing heavily on the Steam machines and virtual reality department. The new engine is still nowhere to be seen, as the only key point they presented in this year's GDC was their latest Steam Controller prototype. Modding wasn't truly their strong point since Half-Life 2. Having so many engine forks and whatnot is bad management.

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That would have made retail users like myself angry and surely there would have been an easy hack out there soon to get the remake running without the original game!
That would have been inevitable, but for the sake of the project, it would have at least secure the permission from them. It's a tainted curse.

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The problem is that not many games get a fan remake. I can only think of Black Mesa and maybe The Dark Mod, but that doesn't include original missions. All others were commercial reboots and most of them utter failures!
Examples like Dungeon Keeper for mobile and Rollercoaster Tycoon 4. It took the Black Mesa team 7 years to finish, and they had high faith on putting so much effort because Valve granted them the permission to use their likeliness. Hence why Resurgence didn't get too much attention because of this. Nobody wants to put too much effort into a remake that the IP holders don't provide permission to. Shame though, I had so much hope in the Unity port, and the current prototype shown quite some impressive results. A great chance to properly improve the game.

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The biggest cut thing that we know of is the whole East Hollywood hud, for smaller things check the list at the end of the UP readme. I'm especially curious about the unknown downtown area marked on the hub sewer maps.
There are quite a lot of cut contents and I am aware of most of them, except for the East Hollywood. Not sure if I have seen this one. Also it truly saddens me that games like Half-Life 2 get more attention in recreating the old beta aspect than Bloodlines does. There aren't as many folks out there who discovered this amount of data as you did. Maybe it'd be a nice idea to set up a site branch on PV for such things. I'm sure many would be interested in contributing to it as well.

With the Dark rip off, this is one example that was pointed out to me via facebook, a screenshot from somewhere in the game:
That's actually in their online manual: http://cdn4.steampowered.com/Manuals/225360/dark_pc_manual_us_online.pdf?t=1385744742

Sad to see horrible games can get away without much issue. As for the project, I might continue working on the Unity prototype but it won't be using any Bloodlines assets, as it happened with all projects that wanted to remake the game so far. Just a thought, we could always have that Sabbat game everyone wanted to have, as long as the game is free. I always had that feeling that when it comes to more than just playing any WoD game, when you get too close to it, you will be halted.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 01:11:12 pm by atrblizzard »

Offline Claudia Vonigner

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence Multiplayer
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2014, 01:53:49 pm »
All my hugs :(

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence Multiplayer
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2014, 06:35:19 pm »
Examples like Dungeon Keeper for mobile and Rollercoaster Tycoon 4.

I don't know about RT4 but as far as I can see from game sites the Dungeon Keeper remake is a big failure too!

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Not sure if I have seen this one.

You couldn't, because there is nothing explicite left inside the game. It was the music composer Rik Schaffer who pointed me to this. You can read his answers in the Restored Music {info}.txt inside the sound/music folder. We don't know more! I just read his emails again and I noticed that I might have misunderstand something. I believe he is talking about an East LA hub, not a East Hollywood hub as I understood it, because he also composed another Hollywood music...

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Also it truly saddens me that games like Half-Life 2 get more attention in recreating the old beta aspect than Bloodlines does.

BTW, I played some of the HL2 beta restoration projects, but none of them were really playable or finished...

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Maybe it'd be a nice idea to set up a site branch on PV for such things. I'm sure many would be interested in contributing to it as well.

Just recently I started a thread called Unknown Locations here, but it seems not many people know anything we don't know!

Just a thought, we could always have that Sabbat game everyone wanted to have, as long as the game is free.

But as soon as you call the sect Sabbat and use WoD disciplines WW will come down on you. The only way I see is making this a Bloodlines mod. WW doesn't seem to care about The Final Nights or the Antritribu Mod that replace many clans!
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 07:05:12 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline atrblizzard

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence Multiplayer
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2014, 06:49:58 pm »
You couldn't, because there is nothing explicite left inside the game. It was the music composer Rik Schaffer who pointed me to this. You can read his answers in the Restored Music {info}.txt inside the sound/music folder. We don't know more! I just read his emails again and I noticed that I might have misunderstand something. I believe he is talking about an East LA hub, not a East Hollywood hub as I understood it, because he also composed another Hollywood music...
Ah right, thought as much. The Downtown hub theme has the alternative, not the Hollywood hub which is why I was confused a bit. Shame it didn't get through.

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BTW, I played some of the HL2 beta restoration projects, but none of them were really playable or finished...
That might be true, but they aren't living in fear of being shut down, and even the Half-Life 2 Enhancemenent Mod which aims to be ported to Alien Swarm and have most assets improved, has been Greenlit, and now is a fully standalone game having all the Half-Life 2 game contents added. Even if they are mods, some engines do not come with the HL2 assets and have to be repackaged for them to use.

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Just recently I started a thread called Unknown Locations here, but it seems not many people know anything we don't know!
I've been checking the thread out but I will have to agree, there aren't many things we didn't know already. But one can still search for more.

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But as soon as you call the sect Sabbat and use WoD disciplines WW will come down on you. The only way I see is making this a Bloodlines mod. WW doesn't seem to care about The Final Nights or the Antritribu Mod that replace many clans!
That would be going back to square one, limited modding possibilites to include new assets. Models are still not fully compilable from my experience, which is one of the many problems we face. I've also learned that another Half-Life mod aimed to recreate Duke Nukem has gotten a cease and desist letter from Gearbox, screenshots can be found here.

It's just sad to see that companies like these don't really care about re-making their original games, and when the fans have the best intention to do so, they get shut down. Granted, overprotecting your IP in such matters is just vacuous. I'm well aware of a fan project of a Bloodlines sequel that WoD accepted in one way or another as long as they don't make money off their IP. They forgot if it weren't for the fans and your dedication and support all these years, Bloodlines would have been that forgotten game that wouldn't have earned a second chance from them. Some people treat such games as mere products while for others is much more than that.

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence Multiplayer
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2014, 07:05:29 pm »
That might be true, but they aren't living in fear of being shut down, and even the Half-Life 2 Enhancemenent Mod which aims to be ported to Alien Swarm and have most assets improved, has been Greenlit, and now is a fully standalone game having all the Half-Life 2 game contents added.

I guess that Valve is allowing this projects to keep the Half-Life universe alive due to the fans, while they themselves don't care about it anymore as long as Steam is making them money and they can pimp up the occassional mod to give the impression they are still a game developer!

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I'm well aware of a fan project of a Bloodlines sequel that WoD accepted in one way or another as long as they don't make money off their IP.

What would that be? I recently stumbled over some The Sims pictures, but I don't know if that is a finished project.

Offline atrblizzard

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence Multiplayer
« Reply #41 on: March 27, 2014, 09:44:08 am »
The project would be Vampire the Masquerade: Renaissance.

A little update on why White Wolf refused to give permission. Turns out that White Wolf cannot give permission for Resurgence to remake Bloodlines is because it was originally published in collaboration with and under license to, Activision. Which means any commercial or non-commercial use of the game, including mods, re-publication requires Activision's permission, hence why they simply cannot give permission since it's not theirs to give. Although I've been told by one of the Greenlight representatives that upon contacting Activision, they've been told that they only have distribution rights and not intellectual property rights, as its owned by White Wolf. The current situation sounds a bit shady, but I would think it's best to contact Activision in regards and get back to CCP.

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence Multiplayer
« Reply #42 on: March 27, 2014, 11:55:36 am »
The project would be Vampire the Masquerade: Renaissance.

And they have the permission of WW? There is little more than their blog on the project. It's just a pixelated old school turn based RPG, so no danger to Bloodlines or a 3D MMO whereas your project is!

Update: I just read the Blog some more and noticed that the pixelated game is called Bloodhunt and that Renaissance was supposed to be a 3D game but their development stopped early. I don't think they ever needed WW approval the same as WW never cared about your Resurgence Project prototype published here...
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 12:57:54 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline atrblizzard

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence Multiplayer
« Reply #43 on: March 27, 2014, 03:45:27 pm »
I doubt White Wolf wasn't aware of the project, and there weren't any legal issues so far. Taking matters into keeping the game legal and only played for owners of the game is always a huge priority for the project, no matter what approach is being used. The project never got any C&D letter from neither company. Having permission would make other contributors feel safe that their invested time wasn't completely wasted.

Offline Claudia Vonigner

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence Multiplayer
« Reply #44 on: March 29, 2014, 04:51:48 pm »
either way the problem is CCP (cf the isses Stephen Webb had :( )

 

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