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Author [EN] [PL] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: Bloodlines Resurgence (back on the Source engine)  (Read 6193 times)

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence on UDK
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2013, 12:47:46 pm »
VtM:B is still sold today on steam and there are much older games with a active modding community.

Just for your interest, the latest Unofficial Patch was downloaded almost 60.000 times :)! But then as far as I know there are only two mods alive right now, namely the CQM and the Antitribu mod. Even after the UP showed that creating new levels is actually possible now, there was no obvious interest at all to produce some. So where should the modders come from to help this project out?

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The only thing that really needs to be done is the release of a finished "area" ...

Still this is where I see the problems: Bloodlines is not a linear shooter like HL1, so it is much more complicated to reproduce with all the RPG and scripting stuff going on in the background. We have already seen several Bloodlines-looking "areas" from various restoration projects by now, including Sanguine Nights, but recreating a static level area is far from actually recreating the whole game!
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 12:59:26 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline Luceid

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence on UDK
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2013, 10:32:16 pm »
60.000 ist eine beeindruckende Zahl. Ich selber habe die letzte Version gar nicht gedownloadet, da ich derzeit anderen Spielen wie FF VII, New Vegas, Skyrim oder Civ IV & V fröne. Dazwischen landen immer Indie-Perlen wie To the Moon oder Dear Esther.
So viele tolle Spiele... so wenig Zeit .__.

Well, in english:
Although it may be possible to add new areas, etc. right now I see two problems:
1. It's simply to "complicated"/time-consuming/etc. atm
2. DevKits always lure in plenty of modders - that's the reason why Bethesda games have 3495863495 mods and games like Risen or Two Worlds have not (oder Drakensang um mal ein deutsches Beispiel zu nennen) or even better: Dragon Age 1 has hundreds of (real) mods and Dragon Age 2 has a dozen.

This brings us towards the second quote.
I've never ever seen any kind of a completed area in this game, either playable or as vid.
Well, let me be more precise: With "area", I mean "section" and this means everything from graphics up to gameplay.
I've seen some nice tech demos, true, but nothing cohesive.

The idea behind a completed "section" (and heck: Tutorial is enough) is the following: Wipe out any thoughts like "Won't work anyway", "They never accomplished something".
This *will* draw attention and maybe bring back some old friends of this game.

Modding will always diminish over time, esp. if there is a new game out (see Oblivion --> Fallout 3 --> New Vegas --> Skyrim) but that's not the point for Bloodlines.
No other game comes close to Bloodlines. Games that are similar like Deus Ex: HR lack the setting. This is a big point here.

We've seen many projects in the last years, never thought to be finished, like Black Mesa or Wing Command Saga.
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Water which is too pure has no fish.
Ts'ai Ken T'an

Offline atrblizzard

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence on UDK
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2013, 10:48:59 pm »
Are you serious? This game is like a decade old. the community is a shell of its former self. There are very few left who play this game that have the ability to do the kinds of things needed to assist you. there aren't even that many players, let alone capable modders/artists/programmers willing to spend the next several YEARS trying to get this done. and the few that are capable would have no interest in helping you out when you (the project leader) admit you don't even have much time to devote to this

First of all, I am spending my time on the project because I love the game so much. I'm not an avid RPG gamer, but Vtm:B was always one of my favorite game of all time. Not everyone's interest is to gain profit out of it in order to contribute on the project. I'd also like to quote something VentrueIan said in the other Unreal 3 thread: "If it hasn't been done, then it can't be done? If we all followed that logic, then nothing really would ever get done."

I am sorry, you seem very talented and skilled, but this will never be completed. you are biting off WAY more than you can chew. even if you somehow find and assemble a team of competent people willing to spend time on this for free (and i promise you this will NOT happen), you wouldn't be able to release this due to legal reasons

There are several other reasons why I continue my devotion to this project: because I love the game and want to see it reborn and to learn to use UDK and use the skills for other games in the future. I have learned a lot on how Vtm:B was built both engine wise and mechanism wise. When I think of Resurgence and how it works, I think of a few things in mind on what the game is built on: a dialog system, an inventory system, NPC interaction, story state, character customization, scripting, level design and more. Can a dialog system be done? Has already been done by others, which proves it's not impossible. An inventory system? Same. Customizing parts of the character? Nothing to worry here. Scripting support? Ditto. NPC interaction? All doable. Don't need to list the rest. And by taking into consideration of other games done in Unreal Engine 3, there's nothing that cannot be done. Might sound I'm chewing off too much, but after each core element is implemented then we already have more than just a prototype of the game logics.
 
 
This could very well be true, I am still fixing the occassional bug almost ten years after the release and I'd never claim I understand all entities and scripts in the first place. It should take a long time to convert these to another system! Why don't you join forces with the Antitribu mod instead? This is quite long in the making already, certainly could need some additional support and it provides new content too :)!

I'm sure there are still some unanswered questions left, even with the modding guide done. The entities and other game logics need to be redone for UDK, but that doesn't mean they cannot be done to mimic the way it was done for Source. They can be also improved, but the main thing is, anything that is needed can be rewritten, because you can edit the game's source code while you cannot do in Vtm:B therefore you are forced to work on that level and unable to unlock more doors. I sort of went away from Source modding for a while and do not wish to get back into it any time soon, but I'd like to know what sort of support is needed and what new contents.
 
Still this is where I see the problems: Bloodlines is not a linear shooter like HL1, so it is much more complicated to reproduce with all the RPG and scripting stuff going on in the background. We have already seen several Bloodlines-looking "areas" from various restoration projects by now, including Sanguine Nights, but recreating a static level area is far from actually recreating the whole game!

Indeed, Bloodlines is more than just a few maps done, because it doesn't involve any linear story. Which is why it needs all the core elements all done first, such as disciplines, inventory system, dialogs, character creation (skill points/stats) and a lot more. Only after that you can have a playable game.

Offline Signothorn

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence on UDK
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2013, 12:45:05 am »
I'll just point out one thing: Redemption had a working SDK and there are at least 4 active maps in development, as well as AoR 2013. If ATRBlizzard was successful, the game could in fact have a rebirth, especially if there was some multiplayer. I can't really name one thing mentioned in this thread that ATRBlizzard hasn't acknowledged to me in convos on Steam chat. He's learned how to code and do much of this because he loves Bloodlines, and perhaps his love for the game hasn't waned in the way some others may have. Maybe instead of stating his obstacles, something anyone with a pulse could do, we stand behind him and applaud his efforts, even if you don't think he'll finish. You know, maybe we could actually behave like a Bloodlines support site. Just a thought... :chinscratch:

Offline mr_homn

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence on UDK
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2013, 01:45:20 am »
I'll just point out one thing: Redemption had a working SDK and there are at least 4 active maps in development, as well as AoR 2013. If ATRBlizzard was successful, the game could in fact have a rebirth, especially if there was some multiplayer. I can't really name one thing mentioned in this thread that ATRBlizzard hasn't acknowledged to me in convos on Steam chat. He's learned how to code and do much of this because he loves Bloodlines, and perhaps his love for the game hasn't waned in the way some others may have. Maybe instead of stating his obstacles, something anyone with a pulse could do, we stand behind him and applaud his efforts, even if you don't think he'll finish. You know, maybe we could actually behave like a Bloodlines support site. Just a thought... :chinscratch:

I totally understand where you are coming from. I too love bloodlines. Don't think I wouldn't *salivate* at the thought of something like this getting done. It would be a dream come true!

 I wish I could help with something like this... but I, like most, lack the necessary knowledge/resources/time/etc to help. So it bothers me that when the few rare talented and creative individual like atrblizzard come along, and they choose to spend their time on something that MOST LIKELY will never be released, for a various multitude of reasons, instead of something more realistic that we actually have a hope of seeing come to fruition.

This community doesn't have many willing and/or capable programmers/modellers/etc, and those that are there are few and far between, and unfortunately seem very fragmented. All of them working on their own thing, not together. Of course I have no right to tell others what to do, and it's selfish of me to sit on the sidelines and criticize, and it's at least cool to see these concept videos of what COULD be done... but I wish these talented individuals had more realistic goals sometimes. One of the reason wesp has been so successful in accomplishing his goals is that he sets realistic goals, and he somehow is able to recruit the talents of many talented individuals to help him. I don't think a complete recreation/rewriting of basically the whole game is a realistic goal for one man (however strong his passion) and a team of half hearted (and yet to be found) volunteers.

I think I've said enough on why I don't think this can be done, though. I mean no disrespect to atrblizzard and I still say more power to him. I'm thankful that people like him still take an interest in improving this game, even if the goals are extremely lofty. I'm just very skeptical. I look forward to whatever creation he puts forth, even if it's just some very cool concept videos.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 01:54:31 am by mr_homn »

Offline atrblizzard

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence on UDK
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2013, 12:59:12 am »
I'll just point out one thing: Redemption had a working SDK and there are at least 4 active maps in development, as well as AoR 2013. If ATRBlizzard was successful, the game could in fact have a rebirth, especially if there was some multiplayer. I can't really name one thing mentioned in this thread that ATRBlizzard hasn't acknowledged to me in convos on Steam chat. He's learned how to code and do much of this because he loves Bloodlines, and perhaps his love for the game hasn't waned in the way some others may have. Maybe instead of stating his obstacles, something anyone with a pulse could do, we stand behind him and applaud his efforts, even if you don't think he'll finish. You know, maybe we could actually behave like a Bloodlines support site. Just a thought... :chinscratch:

First of all I would like to thank your support from the beginnings of the project up until now. I must admit that there has been a lot of unsuccessful moments on the behalf of the project, one of them being the biggest one, lacking of experienced coders for Source programming. Since Source engine is the least chosen engine for mod creators, only a few of them still try to focus their time to bring something new out of it. I'm not an avid programmer, since C# is my most used language and C++ is somewhat the least, since my main focus in these last years has been to learn programming, but also putting a lot of effort into modeling. But time isn't too keen and I try my best to keep the project going.

I totally understand where you are coming from. I too love bloodlines. Don't think I wouldn't *salivate* at the thought of something like this getting done. It would be a dream come true!

 I wish I could help with something like this... but I, like most, lack the necessary knowledge/resources/time/etc to help. So it bothers me that when the few rare talented and creative individual like atrblizzard come along, and they choose to spend their time on something that MOST LIKELY will never be released, for a various multitude of reasons, instead of something more realistic that we actually have a hope of seeing come to fruition.

This community doesn't have many willing and/or capable programmers/modellers/etc, and those that are there are few and far between, and unfortunately seem very fragmented. All of them working on their own thing, not together. Of course I have no right to tell others what to do, and it's selfish of me to sit on the sidelines and criticize, and it's at least cool to see these concept videos of what COULD be done... but I wish these talented individuals had more realistic goals sometimes. One of the reason wesp has been so successful in accomplishing his goals is that he sets realistic goals, and he somehow is able to recruit the talents of many talented individuals to help him. I don't think a complete recreation/rewriting of basically the whole game is a realistic goal for one man (however strong his passion) and a team of half hearted (and yet to be found) volunteers.

I think I've said enough on why I don't think this can be done, though. I mean no disrespect to atrblizzard and I still say more power to him. I'm thankful that people like him still take an interest in improving this game, even if the goals are extremely lofty. I'm just very skeptical. I look forward to whatever creation he puts forth, even if it's just some very cool concept videos.

I would like to hear about your opinion on what goals are unrealistic. Just want to know how others see what my goals are for the project. The reason why I don't want to jump onto any other projects yet is because I haven't finished my current one. Since I am in no disposition to create my very own projects, since years before I started working on a mod/game, that seemed for me an unrealistic goal. Many of us wants to create our own game, but also a lot of those people are the idea people. Since I knew I wasn't in much position to create something totally from scratch, I gave a shot to the Bloodlines Revival project (back in the old days) and see how far I can go with it. Since I have only been working with the Source engine before that, and Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines was also running on the Source engine, I thought to myself this shouldn't be much of a problem porting and creating a replication of the game. But only after a short time I've started to see the problems that kept us on hold for such a long time. The biggest problem we were facing was the coding part. Since everything had to be redone from scratch, and I wasn't much experienced with coding, it was a hard task for me, since Source is using C++ and Source isn't the easiest engine to mod either. This was the main thing that always held the project back.
And I've seen times where a lot of coders just came and vanished, and just a few had the will to give Source programming a try. But a lot of them just quit it, even experienced programmers. Now if I were to make a game at that time, I would have quit too, but because I wanted to learn how to mod I kept on going. And failed many times and working on Bloodlines Resurgence taught me a whole lot about designing a game, since Troika had a genius way of creating Vtm:B.

Keeping in mind the failures I had, I decided to give UDK a try. There are plenty of reason why a lot of games are on Unreal Engine 3, while most of the Source games are created by Valve. Only a few third party games were created on Source besides Valve. The biggest reason why I wanted to port Resurgence to UDK was of always hitting the same walls on Source. But with UDK, that problem disappears. Since UnrealScript is used to code the game mechanism and such, while Scaleform (Flash) is used for the interface, FBX for models, powerful material system and a whole new things the engine brings, they ease up a whole lot on creating a game, focusing more on the aspects of the game and less on the coding. UDK is a very powerful engine and it's more robust, has better pipeline development than Source. I've been working with the Source engine for a long time now, not on too many projects, but it was so painful working with the Source SDK. I remember times when Hammer, its level editor, crashed more than 40 times a day. I already created a sport out of pressing Ctrl+S because of that. To try out the map you had to compile it, try it inside the game, or compile the source code, which each of them take time to perform. In UDK, however, all these are fast. You can see how the map will look already in the editor, compiling the source code won't require any external compilers, just UDK.

Now on the development part, why this is not an unrealistic goal to achieve. When creating a game, you will face a few aspects on how to build the game. Each game has a few game mechanism. Bloodlines is an Action RPG game, which means it will have the following: an inventory system, a character creation/skill mechanism, a dialog system that affects the outcome of the story, a story state system, disciplines, ranged and melee weapons, and a few more. In terms of developing them, it doesn't seem hard to do, if you have the programmer's mindset. Since I've already documented myself on the UDK engine, I already have found methods how to implement them.

I hope this will shed some light to those who think it's impossible.

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence on UDK
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2013, 11:44:49 am »
I would like to hear about your opinion on what goals are unrealistic.

Let me answer this too: I think it is unrealistic for one person to recreate the whole game! I am patching Bloodlines for almost ten years soon, with some help by other people now and then, and I wouldn't imagine to do something like this! Burgermeister recreated the new library level and it took half a year just to get this one level right, with myself adding a lot of details after he became fed up with it. Bloodlines has a lot of dynamic entities, which do things connected to triggers or dialogues or Python scripts. You would have to add all the basic interconnection stuff yourself just to get it to work and then add each entity itself and check it out inside the game. Which will probably take years for one person alone!

Offline atrblizzard

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence on UDK
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2013, 07:08:29 pm »
For one person it is, it involves too much work, thus I still keep experimenting and digging into the engine to see what is possible and how easily that can be achieved before jumping too deep into that, which is also taking some time before I can build up documentations for coders and other contributors for the project. Since it's going to be done from scratch, understanding the engine is crucial. Dheuster managed to expose a lot of the VtmB's entities and he still didn't manage to fully understand each of them. And even for UDK, we can only assume how some of the things will work, but cannot guarantee if it's going to have the same result. That would have been the issue with the newest Source engine too, except in UDK you are exposed to more features without depending too much on the coding side.

But to break it simple, here's what I think how the story state and scripting works. Entities have different functions, they can be shared or only for specific entities. Python acts as a bridge to the entities, being able to manipulate them easily instead of relying everything in Hammer. That way you can easily edit the map and its inputs/outputs without compiling the map's entities each time you want to edit something, which is great especially for modding purposes.

The scripts act as a gateway for ent_fire, the story state and other classes that it's exposed to. It can set story states, find targets, hide or unhide entities, change their states and so on. These are not Python exclusive commands, they can be also set from ent_fire in the console.

Now for the story state, it seems to be a simple integer, which the "game" checks. In VtM:B, the scripts can easily check for the story state and depending on that, to act as coded. For example, if story state is 4, then it performs the following actions, if not then do nothing. The story states are nothing meaningful, it's the entities what give meaning to them. For example, if you complete a quest, it increases the story state to a higher number. It all matters how you build up the game around that. Same goes for skills, they are just simple numeric integer values. For example, the computer entity deals with the hacking skillpoints and decides what it can do with it. You set up the properties for the computer in the map, to be only hackable at a certain value. And the entity does the rest. If it meets the certain skill level, then it let's you to hack it, if not, then it fails to do so. Same for the lockpick. It's the lockpick that sets the door to be unlockable if the certain skill level is met.

I'm planning to write a documentation on how to implement most game logics for UDK to be able to build the game logics and source code to it. It should mimic the same results as the original game does.  I'm already keeping touch with a few coders right now, mainly discussing the way to implement the game logics and entities and to build a working prototype for the whole game mechanism.

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence on UDK
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2013, 10:38:14 pm »
That way you can easily edit the map and its inputs/outputs without compiling the map's entities each time you want to edit something, which is great especially for modding purposes.

This editing of entities only can be done in Bloodlines with VPKTool and is what I do all the time. If you would need to recompile a map for every change you would never succeed!

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Now for the story state, it seems to be a simple integer, which the "game" checks.

The G.Story_State variable is only one of hundreds of variables that the game needs to work. You can find a list of what each story state refers to in the Unofficial Patch readme. These variables do everything from influencing map entities and dialogue choices to Python scripts!

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I'm already keeping touch with a few coders right now, mainly discussing the way to implement the game logics and entities and to build a working prototype for the whole game mechanism.

So how many people do you think you can actually get to help you? Because most of the Bloodlines mods are done by one or two man teams and I don't see anyone else willing to still mod it.

Offline ColonelAlias

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence on UDK
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2013, 05:05:42 pm »
I'm going to be honest here. My opinion as a computer science degree graduate is that this meandering about models and scenarios is _useless_ without systems in place to translate original game:

1) map entities (this is most of what Troika programmers did)
2) animations
3) (most especially) dialog system, which should run unmodified from the original, or with backwards compatible new API extensions for modders
4) UI
5) Input (interacts with mods too)

Ideally this crap (especially 1 and 2) would be done by a parser output transformation. Since the plan obviously changed to Unreal, thus exponentially complicating any possible translator, i doubt the project will get anywhere in terms of 'complete game that won't be shut down'.
Also, don't expect the project to be a success if you can't do 1) and 3) without backwards compatibility to the engine. This is absolutely necessary so that projects like the UP continue to work, so any manual translation is useless, since you can't expect people who mod the game to abandon the original for your project.
Since the move was obviously motivated to avoid doing the programing and reversing work of 1) and 2) I'm not much optimistic.


Recoding the whole game will not get you modders!
« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 05:14:42 pm by ColonelAlias »

Offline Serpent

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence on UDK
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2013, 08:01:41 pm »
I'm going to be honest here. My opinion as a computer science degree graduate is that this meandering about models and scenarios is _useless_ without systems in place to translate original game:
If you talk about all the converters written over the years to port content from a buggy beta engine to the various successors of said engine, that failed, miserably. Feel free to play with the unofficial 1.0.2.1 or Resurgence Post-Install Wizard. The problem was always the same, for every minute spent to get stuff properly converted to source x, then source y, then source swarm etc. it was often necessary to fix stuff manually afterwards. Not to mention that Valve didn't consider their SDk and modding community a valuable asset and from once leading this movement lost most modders to UDK or CryENGINE. I can understand why artblizzard has a closer look at udk and considers abandoning source (even so it seems Valve picks up their pace).
1) map entities (this is most of what Troika programmers did)
Uh, yes these suck. Guess even Werner is still fixing them, years later. Converting a buggy source doesn't help, on the contrary.
2) animations
Particles were the problems with the source engine.
3) (most especially) dialog system, which should run unmodified from the original, or with backwards compatible new API extensions for modders
You can't run anything unmodified if the binary is involved, dialog, inventory etc, doesn't matter. You have to code it from scratch if source engine or not, that doesn't change. Even as an experienced c++ dev it's complicated in source. You have to learn its quirks and dig deep into the source engine to implement stuff like that. There is no real separation between "gamecode" like inventory handling and the engine nor can I see a way to attach some compatibility layer to it and expose some API. To integrate python support in alien swarm is troublesome, you could use Squirrel for scripting yes, once again this requires to code everything, previously python, from scratch. In UDK that's a different matter. Unreal script is a new language yes, but regardless if you come from c++, java, js etc it isn't hard to get. You change something in the scripts, you compile just that, not the complete engine. Also static meshes used in UDK can be converted rather easily from BSP and are according to atrblizzard far more efficient.
[/quote]
4) UI
Guess, resurgence will use scaleform.
5) Input (interacts with mods too)
Not sure what you are talking about here. The UDK player input classes are rather flexible.
Ideally this crap (especially 1 and 2) would be done by a parser output transformation. Since the plan obviously changed to Unreal, thus exponentially complicating any possible translator, i doubt the project will get anywhere in terms of 'complete game that won't be shut down'.
Well see above, it isn't that easy, and doesn't provide necessarily an advantage as resurgence had to learn the hard way.
Also, don't expect the project to be a success if you can't do 1) and 3) without backwards compatibility to the engine.
There is no chance to have backward compatibility. Impossible. Just the cloth system, the movements of the short skirt by the malkavian char are some troika homebrew code, this isn't in the valve source engine. Particles, bones, maps even just the python stuff in the original. The single hope by sticking to source was to have less trouble with the art assets.
This is absolutely necessary so that projects like the UP continue to work, so any manual translation is useless, since you can't expect people who mod the game to abandon the original for your project.
Not sure what you are talking about, Werner cares about the original. No reason for an UP in resurgence. If he notices a bug in resurgence, it would be resurgence responsibility to fix it. In their code.
Since the move was obviously motivated to avoid doing the programing and reversing work of 1) and 2) I'm not much optimistic.
Again, you can't avoid programming. Regardless the engine you have to do all logic from the beginning. The art assets were the reason to stick to source. And animations and particles are different things.
Recoding the whole game will not get you modders!
Again, regardless which engine you have to code, the point is which one makes it the easiest. Modding is certainly an issue. I honestly have no idea yet how that will turn out. But once there is working code I think that can be handled and without the typical restrictions bloodlines has (limited amount of items etc).

There is no question that this is an ambiguous project. Will it succeed? No idea. Will it at least have some results? No idea. Does it hurt existing mods? No, I won't work on anythings else, I have no interest in multiplayer (atrblizzard can prove that), I have no interest in creating mods, maybe playing them ok (let me be selfish). The point I try to get across is that I am willing to spend time on bloodlines but not necessarily in stuff you deem worthy. My goal is, and why I am willing to spend time with resurgence is to move this game to the next decade. Werner managed to buy time with his patch and survive the +4GB RAM and widescreen times. I dream to have this game on a somewhat technical up to date platform, essential gameplay code open so even if it gets abandoned someone else is able to pick it up and continue the work. Maybe even once ColonelAlias so criticized programming is done and basic gameplay is possible to interest artists to work on the art. Maybe even pimp up the graphics and effects to the standard we have now. Something which is certainly is possible with the unreal engine.

Offline atrblizzard

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence on UDK
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2013, 08:13:43 pm »
Problem with UDK is that it wasn't meant to be moddable. Which is a huge downside for the whole game because the biggest reason for the project is to recreate it with proper modding support. Since Vtm:B is as moddable as it is, it's not enough for it to create properly any new contents.
Source on the other hand handles modding like no other engine can, not to mention with the SDK that the current engine comes enables you to import your contents without having issues like with the unofficial SDK for the original game.

Apparently the Source 2013 SDK came at the right time. I'm considering setting up a github project with the current code done for the project so far and merge the codes from Alien Swarm to this engine. Since this engine is being maintained regularly while Alien Swarm's engine and SDK hasn't been touched for years, it's best to switch to that instead. It comes with Linux and OS X support, VPK support, updated engine code base and a few more.

Moving the project to UDK is counter-intuitive because of many reasons. I've been trying to port the maps from BSP to meshes and it's taking too much time to convert. Not to mention it would require the lightmaps to be manually layed out. UDK's main downside is that once the game is cooked, you cannot modify it anymore. It's good for games that do not need modding, but for a game like Vtm:B, modding is very crucial. Maps wouldn't be able to get modified without editing it from the editor (the uncooked map file) and every new content that you'd add have to be merged into the cooking process.

About backward compability, the only way you can do that is if you totally understand how their entities work. Since there are many entities that only a little are known about them cannot guarantee total compability. Map entities would have the same entity names. The dialog system can be coded to parse the data without touching them for backward compability.

Offline ColonelAlias

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence on UDK
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2013, 07:54:07 pm »
Guess i am out of date on this. You aren't switching to Unreal then and continuing with Source?

Offline Radical21

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence on UDK
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2013, 08:29:23 pm »
UDK wasn't meant to be moddable? are these excuses I am hearing now?

Just admit that you went over your head trying to do this, don't blame it on the software.

Offline atrblizzard

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Re: Bloodlines Resurgence on UDK
« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2013, 10:27:00 pm »
Guess i am out of date on this. You aren't switching to Unreal then and continuing with Source?
UDK was more of a test bed to be honest, and I have been a bit too forward to announce that's going to be on UDK that soon without getting to the bottom of things. Seemed how well it went until the point that there is no modding support at all, unless you buy the full UE3 engine license. I thought it would have been possible to emulate that with DLLBind but each content you'd create would be baked and unable to edit afterwards.

Even though, the new Source SDK 2013 came at the right time, even if it should have happened several years ago, it's great to see an supported engine branch. Even now they're constantly fixing bugs and resolving any issues, since they're hosting it on github which is way more efficient in terms of getting the latest updates and constant feedback than it was with the old method of the Source SDK launcher and such. Alien Swarm is not being supported by them and even licensees are told to stay away from that engine branch. I've been porting the codes from the Alien Swarm version to the current 2013 code branch and it's been going well.

UDK wasn't meant to be moddable? are these excuses I am hearing now?

Just admit that you went over your head trying to do this, don't blame it on the software.

See above.

 

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