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Offline [archive] sexydeth

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Re: Blender questions
« on: April 26, 2008, 09:35:00 am »
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  •                 I have been playing with tutorials and such but I have a few questions related to its use with skinning for Bloodlines.
     
     1.  When I try to zoom in on a characters face it zooms in towards the center of the body and I have to grab the model and move it down so I've got her face in the center of my window.  But there is this grey box there making zooming way in to pick the pink dots very hard since its covering some of the model.  Is there a way to zoom in on a part of the screen without picking up the model and putting the part you want in the center of the view?  I can delete the cute but I'm not sure if its counted as part of the model and deleting it might through off some figures that I'm still learning about.
     
     2.  Once I've edited a model imported in from VampEd (.x) file I see I can export it as a VampEd (.x) file but how do I convert it to something the game can use?  I originally got the .x file from the .mdl (I believe) so I assume I would need to make that conversion again.  Is this done in VampEd?  The newer versions don't seem to extract to the same type of .x so I'm using version 0.92.
     
     3.  Off hand, does anyone remember how to get the UV mappings to show up on the image?  I've split the main window into two and the left side is the 3d model and the right side is the textures.  I have found how to select UV triangles from the 3d model and have the texture show what I've picked but I'd like to see all the UV lines because its a bit difficult in the model view to see that I've got all the triangles selected (see question #1)
     
     While on the UV topic, does anyone recall what program was able to extract the UVs of a model?  I have lots of programs I've downloaded from when I was reading up on this over a year ago so looking at them now I don't recall all of the ones I was using then.
     
     Thanks for any help!                        

     

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    Offline [archive] MooCHa2

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    Re: Blender questions
    « Reply #1 on: April 26, 2008, 03:42:00 pm »
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  •                
    sexydeth posted:
    I have been playing with tutorials and such but I have a few questions related to its use with skinning for Bloodlines.
     
     1.  When I try to zoom in on a characters face it zooms in towards the center of the body and I have to grab the model and move it down so I've got her face in the center of my window.  But there is this grey box there making zooming way in to pick the pink dots very hard since its covering some of the model.  Is there a way to zoom in on a part of the screen without picking up the model and putting the part you want in the center of the view?  I can delete the cute but I'm not sure if its counted as part of the model and deleting it might through off some figures that I'm still learning about.

     
     First off delete the cube. I forgot to mention that in the other thread when saying about making a default window layout. If you didn't delete the cube, exporting would screw up the vert/face count, infact both as you can't add or delete but only modify.
     
     Zoom, If you look on any active viewport window do you see the icon next to the arrow where you select 3d window, uv image editor etc. goto user prefs>view and controls and look for pan view. this mean you can just move the window up and down.  
     
     If you wanted to though, you could add a few cameras at certain points of the model so you could use numpad keys to rotate through them to get to parts of the model you want to edit quickly. You would just have to remember to delete them and only them before export . Starting to waffle tipsy so I will leave it there for tonight. All I will say is do not delete the camera that is there when first imprted. Note it!
     
     Zoom I think your looking for is hold ctrl then hold middle mouse wheel in then zoom in whislt using rotate in the viewport.
     
     
     
    sexydeth posted:

     2.  Once I've edited a model imported in from VampEd (.x) file I see I can export it as a VampEd (.x) file but how do I convert it to something the game can use?  I originally got the .x file from the .mdl (I believe) so I assume I would need to make that conversion again.  Is this done in VampEd?  The newer versions don't seem to extract to the same type of .x so I'm using version 0.92.

     
     The way you are doing it requires you to go back to the model in vamped regarding the way you did when you extracted the .x, now what you have to do is drag the .x from windows explorer on to the mdl in vamped when you have the model selected. I always have vpks extracted so if you do too then just go to the models folder of the character you edited in the game folder and that is the finished exported .mdl. Just check the date on the file to be sure.
     
     There is another way as Dan made 2 export scripts that saves the file as .mdlx.
     
     This will require you to copy the original .mdl from the game directory structure into the same directory that vamped extratcted your pc/npc character to so you should have a .mdl and .x in the same folder where you imported the .x from.
     
     You will need Dans bloodlines_mod mdlx export script(Paine's site?) now what you do is when exporting is start the export, select the original mdl file then it will export a file as a .mdlx and this is the file you want, now copy it over ingame dlete the original mdl (I remame it to orig_blah blah for obvious reasons) then rename the mdlx to .mdl. Presto happy
     
     
    sexydeth posted:

     3.  Off hand, does anyone remember how to get the UV mappings to show up on the image?  I've split the main window into two and the left side is the 3d model and the right side is the textures.  I have found how to select UV triangles from the 3d model and have the texture show what I've picked but I'd like to see all the UV lines because its a bit difficult in the model view to see that I've got all the triangles selected (see question #1)
     
     While on the UV topic, does anyone recall what program was able to extract the UVs of a model?  I have lots of programs I've downloaded from when I was reading up on this over a year ago so looking at them now I don't recall all of the ones I was using then.
     
     Thanks for any help!

     
     Blender and max. I can't remember other programs that do it. Plenty of tutorials around on it. Hmm not sure totally what your on about so go into uv face select, use right mouse to slect a uv face then hold ctrl then hit L to select joined uv faces. now in another viewport bring up the uv image editor. For instance if you selected the face as your uv joined faces the associed image file(texture) will be visable with lots of pink dot in the uv image editor, right mouse one of the pink dots then hold ctrl then hit L again. This will select them all.
     
     Now goto UVs> Scripts in the uv editor then to "save uv face layout" and i think you should only have wrap selected. I really can't remember wether it is 512 or 1024(I think it is 1024 but check tga image dimension in photoshoip>image>image size on menu to be sure) that you input before saving the uv template. Open the uv in photoshop ande make it a second layer then set your opacity for the layer then the rest is up to you happy
     
     Regards...                        

     

                                                      

    Offline [archive] sexydeth

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    Re: Blender questions
    « Reply #2 on: April 26, 2008, 04:16:00 pm »
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  •                 Cool, thanks for the post!  I'll continue to play around with it as it is the best way to learn.  The tutorials have been helpful by making the program more familiar and moving around simple objects makes more sense.  When you pull up one of the game models though you can appreciate just how much detail went into them.  There are just a few things I want to alter the shape of a bit for some skins I'm doing.  Mostly I've just been using Blender to look at my model from different angles but some stuff needs a bit of depth so I just want to make a few minor alterations (raise some parts to make it look like clothes they are wearing rather than painted on).  Thanks again for the tips!                        

     

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    Offline [archive] MooCHa2

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    Re: Blender questions
    « Reply #3 on: April 26, 2008, 04:35:00 pm »
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  •                
    sexydeth posted:
    Cool, thanks for the post!  I'll continue to play around with it as it is the best way to learn.  The tutorials have been helpful by making the program more familiar and moving around simple objects makes more sense.  When you pull up one of the game models though you can appreciate just how much detail went into them.  There are just a few things I want to alter the shape of a bit for some skins I'm doing.  Mostly I've just been using Blender to look at my model from different angles but some stuff needs a bit of depth so I just want to make a few minor alterations (raise some parts to make it look like clothes they are wearing rather than painted on).  Thanks again for the tips!

     
     Do the depth in the texture editing with photoshop building up layers and so forth and adjusting the model slightly too. I agree some of the models are in great detail but if you look at a common npc you wil notice a lower vert/face count on some of them.
     
     Regards...
                           

     

                                                      

    Offline [archive] sexydeth

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    Re: Blender questions
    « Reply #4 on: April 26, 2008, 05:02:00 pm »
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  •                
    MooCHa2 posted:
    sexydeth posted:
    Cool, thanks for the post!  I'll continue to play around with it as it is the best way to learn.  The tutorials have been helpful by making the program more familiar and moving around simple objects makes more sense.  When you pull up one of the game models though you can appreciate just how much detail went into them.  There are just a few things I want to alter the shape of a bit for some skins I'm doing.  Mostly I've just been using Blender to look at my model from different angles but some stuff needs a bit of depth so I just want to make a few minor alterations (raise some parts to make it look like clothes they are wearing rather than painted on).  Thanks again for the tips!

     
     Do the depth in the texture editing with photoshop building up layers and so forth and adjusting the model slightly too. I agree some of the models are in great detail but if you look at a common npc you wil notice a lower vert/face count on some of them.
     
     Regards...
     

     
     Yup, most of my time is spent in Photoshop and just checking things out in Blender, seeing how it all fits together.  But I'm having trouble with a pair of gloves that I'm trying to make.  They don't cover any of the fingers but have a triangle shape on the top of the hand and attaches to the base of the middle finger.   This has been giving me a very hard time since the textures aren't layed out exactly like hands.  I was hoping to paint a basic shape on the 3d model (in a different colour) then in PS see the part that makes that up.  I think maybe exporting the UVs like you said will help me in PS.  I'm just not sure how specific the UVs are.  I see the colour goes outside the UVs but is the line of an outside UV the exact point where it stops.  With a hand its difficult to figure out.  The result in Blender is a crooked line on the hand.                        

     

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    Offline [archive] MooCHa2

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    Re: Blender questions
    « Reply #5 on: April 26, 2008, 05:34:00 pm »
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  •                
    sexydeth posted:
    MooCHa2 posted:
    sexydeth posted:
    Cool, thanks for the post!  I'll continue to play around with it as it is the best way to learn.  The tutorials have been helpful by making the program more familiar and moving around simple objects makes more sense.  When you pull up one of the game models though you can appreciate just how much detail went into them.  There are just a few things I want to alter the shape of a bit for some skins I'm doing.  Mostly I've just been using Blender to look at my model from different angles but some stuff needs a bit of depth so I just want to make a few minor alterations (raise some parts to make it look like clothes they are wearing rather than painted on).  Thanks again for the tips!

     
     Do the depth in the texture editing with photoshop building up layers and so forth and adjusting the model slightly too. I agree some of the models are in great detail but if you look at a common npc you wil notice a lower vert/face count on some of them.
     
     Regards...
     

     
     Yup, most of my time is spent in Photoshop and just checking things out in Blender, seeing how it all fits together.  But I'm having trouble with a pair of gloves that I'm trying to make.  They don't cover any of the fingers but have a triangle shape on the top of the hand and attaches to the base of the middle finger.   This has been giving me a very hard time since the textures aren't layed out exactly like hands.  I was hoping to paint a basic shape on the 3d model (in a different colour) then in PS see the part that makes that up.  I think maybe exporting the UVs like you said will help me in PS.  I'm just not sure how specific the UVs are.  I see the colour goes outside the UVs but is the line of an outside UV the exact point where it stops.  With a hand its difficult to figure out.  The result in Blender is a crooked line on the hand.  

     
     I'm starting to get drunk now so post a screenshot of it so I know what your talking about and tell which model you are editing.
     
     Regards...                        

     

                                                      

    Offline [archive] sexydeth

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    Re: Blender questions
    « Reply #6 on: April 26, 2008, 08:39:00 pm »
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  •                
     
     Here is what I'm trying to achieve on VV.  Its the right shape but the texture was killing me.  So I found another skin to borrow parts from.  I feel like Dr Frankenstein, lol.  But what I was trying to get at is that I can't just draw a perfect V on her hand in the texture in PS so being able to draw it in Blender as an outline to follow would help.  I have to figure out how to paint on the UV now.  But I've been taking it one step at a time.  I've been working on this skin for a year (took a long break) so I'm anxious to finish and release her.                        

     

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    Offline [archive] MooCHa2

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    Re: Blender questions
    « Reply #7 on: April 27, 2008, 11:20:00 am »
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  •                 Look on the uv editor window of the screenshot. If you look at the pink dots, use your right mouse to select one of them that's away from the glove then press left mouse on the dot that was selected then let go then drag it nearer to the glove.
     
     Try placing this just inside your glove outline then do the same thing with the other pinks dots that need adjusting. tweak the uv as much as you have to in that area.
     
     You are going to have to tweak the texture in photoshop too if you want some depth on the outside of the material of the glove.
     
     Make extra layers of what you have done so far, make the layers hidden and locked so you have a backup layer of everything in your psd.
     
     
     Regards...
     
     Edit: I forgot to mention that you will have to save the texture image via blender for the changes to be save to your .tga.
     
     Make sure that you set rgba under format. This is under buttons window, press F10 then look for format, press rgba, Go back to uv editor, selec image> save as in uv editor select targa raw. thats it. Load it into photoshop.
                           

     

                                                      

    Offline [archive] sexydeth

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    Re: Blender questions
    « Reply #8 on: April 27, 2008, 02:10:00 pm »
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  •                 Cool, thanks for the tip!                        

     

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    Offline [archive] MooCHa2

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    Re: Blender questions
    « Reply #9 on: April 27, 2008, 07:21:00 pm »
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  •                 No problem.
     
     I want to add a bit more regarding uv. for instance if you select say vv's pelvis in uv select, you will see this reflected in the uv editor as you know.
     
     now you want to get the job done quick so hold shift then select say the arm with right mouse on one uv face and then a leg, her collar, her strap on her top etc then whilst holding ctrl hit L to link them.
     
     Also if you hold ctrl then press in the gray viewport background with left mouse it can be use as a multiple selection tool to select lots of faces. Eg most of the body then just rotate and pick of any stray faces using the shift+L etc like the top of her collar or the bottom of her heals. Seriously just play around with it, you will get the hang of it.
     
     I can't think of anything else to say so here is the UV's but please try to do it yourself as it wont benefit one bit if you don't
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     Regards...                        

     

                                                      

    Offline [archive] sexydeth

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    Re: Blender questions
    « Reply #10 on: April 27, 2008, 09:35:00 pm »
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  •                 Woot thanks!  Will it come out the right size so I can copy paste on the .tga (I keep a running .psd with many, many layers) or will I have to adjust it?  The texture seems to be drawn outside of the UV lines so I'm just wondering if the UV lines are exact or a rough estimate?  Sometimes they draw outside the view area so when its cut back there is no concern that part will be missed (like comics drawn outside the boarders then cut back to be sure they don't have white spaces along the sides).
     
     Perhaps I'm being a bit anal too.  Trying to get an absolutely perfect line when the details in Blender are much more noticeable than the game.  If this was your skin (besides the fact that it would be 100x better), would this (yo linky, show up) be too fuzzy?  Would you try to get a straighter line?  I think I just need to know when to quit, lol.                        

     

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    Offline [archive] MooCHa2

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    Re: Blender questions
    « Reply #11 on: April 28, 2008, 06:26:00 am »
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  •                
    sexydeth posted:
    Woot thanks!  Will it come out the right size so I can copy paste on the .tga (I keep a running .psd with many, many layers) or will I have to adjust it?  The texture seems to be drawn outside of the UV lines so I'm just wondering if the UV lines are exact or a rough estimate?  Sometimes they draw outside the view area so when its cut back there is no concern that part will be missed (like comics drawn outside the boarders then cut back to be sure they don't have white spaces along the sides).
     
     Perhaps I'm being a bit anal too.  Trying to get an absolutely perfect line when the details in Blender are much more noticeable than the game.  If this was your skin (besides the fact that it would be 100x better), would this (yo linky, show up) be too fuzzy?  Would you try to get a straighter line?  I think I just need to know when to quit, lol.

     
     Yer, copy and paste the uv's to a new layer in photoshop>face uv goes in your face texture file etc. The dimensions are correct. Set layer opacity to say around 50 percent, make sure layer is above your work, lock the layer so you can't move to accidentally then toggle layer visibility as needed.
     
     The uv lines are exact so adjust it in the uv editor then check back on your model in object mode.
     
     Yes, I would try to get a straighter line. I wouldnt call it straighter but yes just tweak it to make it a little less fuzzy but remember it doesn't need to be perfect. I wouldn't call it anal. Zoom in photoshop and get close and personal with it. This will allow you to make adjustment a lot easier with more control.
     
     Keep at it you will get there but don't just expect everything to work out first time.
     
     The rest is upto you.
     
     Just a thought on zoom and getting to model parts bit quicker. If I remember correctly in object mode you can click and the curor will move to another point then you can press c key to center then zoom into that point.
     
     Regards...                        

     

                                                      

    Offline [archive] sexydeth

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    Re: Blender questions
    « Reply #12 on: April 28, 2008, 06:33:00 am »
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  •                 I'll have to give that a try.  I threw her in game and the lines on her hand are noticeable fuzzy when she blows Strauss a kiss but I'm getting closer!                        

     

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    Offline [archive] paul_syntax

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    Re: Blender questions
    « Reply #13 on: April 30, 2008, 07:42:00 am »
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  •                 Hi,
     
     Did you try the VampEd 1.58 version? It's working with blender?
     
     bye,
     paul
     
     VampEd 1.2 History:
     
     1.20 Feb 17 2006
     Bloodlines wireframe map viewer.
     Some small fixes to the importer for 3dsMax 8.0
     Added the extra MaterialInfo template to the .x files
                           

     

                                                      

    Offline [archive] sexydeth

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    Re: Blender questions
    « Reply #14 on: April 30, 2008, 10:57:00 am »
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  •                
    paul_syntax posted:
    Hi,
     
     Did you try the VampEd 1.58 version? It's working with blender?
     
     bye,
     paul
     
     VampEd 1.2 History:
     
     1.20 Feb 17 2006
     Bloodlines wireframe map viewer.
     Some small fixes to the importer for 3dsMax 8.0
     Added the extra MaterialInfo template to the .x files
     

     
     IF its working with Blender I can't find out how.  Version 0.92 I can use because of 'Blender import export for VampEd 0.92' (also on Paine's site).  I set the path and can import VampEd files from 0.92 but if I try to use a higher version I get a python script error and the program crashes.  Also the only way I've figured out how to save a .x file (and its called a D3d.x not VampEd.x) is to find the character in the packs (can't seem to get it to work from an extracted .mdl file like 0.92), Ctrl-R, then right-click copy, right-click paste as D3d.x.  I've looked on Paine's site and found no information on how to use the updated program so I haven't.  I'd like to but I can't figure out what's up with it and the changes.  Used to be I could export and bottom right of the screen would let me set a path.  That's gone now.
     
     Looking directly on the Blender site they have 'A knife python script for cutting a mesh along a given infinite plane.'  Now we can't add or delete but can we cut and move stuff then lock them onto another place on the model.  Like take an armband and make a choker out of it?  Cut off the Lotus Blossom girl's butterflies and move them to a another part of her head (I think a few simple things like that in blender could make skins look different enough that they don't look like just a painted version of an older model, which they are but a few small tweaks could help give some variety)?
     
     Mostly I am disappointed with the hair in the game.  Well I'm disappointed with the Toreador female because she doesn't seem supernaturally beautiful in my opinion.  But I want to play with the hair of the models.  Add some length and bangs if possible.  I know I can't get the animations of, say the Tremere female's hair, but again some variety to what's already there would be cool.                        

     

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