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Offline fylimar

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Re: Unanswered Storyline Questions
« Reply #60 on: March 06, 2021, 08:54:24 pm »

Siding with Gary doesn't mean, that he becomes the next prince, just that maybe you help him and the Nosferatu.
Help them how exactly ? They are not a faction interested in the sarcophagus themselves. They are simply neutral on the issue.

Other than that, you already helped him, you did several tasks like saving Barbarus.

Besides, siding with Gary means siding with the Camerilla, since the Nosferatu are part of the Camerilla, and you can already do that.

The anarchs are not really interrested in the sarcophagus. Gary at least sold it for favors or money or both. I have helped Strauß during the game too (with the plaguebearers and maybe with the Gargoyle), you still get an ending with him, same with the anarchs, same with Lacroix (depending on your playstyle). So I don't see an issue by helping Gary during the game and getting an ending with him. As I said, at least the LA Nosferatu are pretty much out for themselves, they are Camarilla and I guess, they are mostly loyal, but they hadn't had a problem with selling the sarcophagus to the Giovanni, despite the Camarilla prince wanting it. So it could be a different ending. Besides: the game is finished, I was just musing. It's not like there are many more endings coming. I just said, that I want more Nosferatu in the game, because imo the Nossie npcs are among the best in that game, they deserved more screentime.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2021, 07:32:16 am by Wesp5 »
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Offline Happydeathclaw

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Re: Unanswered Storyline Questions
« Reply #61 on: March 11, 2021, 03:52:19 pm »
Gary
Factions come and go away, systems change, princes rule and die, Gary remains unshakable.

Offline Rubinia

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Re: Unanswered Storyline Questions
« Reply #62 on: March 11, 2021, 07:09:40 pm »
I guess that Jack was in fact secretly Sabbat masquerading as an Anarch. It's a kind of theory that works best if kept unclear all way long, so it's not a very good idea to give answers to this very question... yet if so, I'd be glad to be right  :afro:
« Last Edit: March 12, 2021, 10:03:46 am by Wesp5 »
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Offline cyberfloof

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Re: Unanswered Storyline Questions
« Reply #63 on: March 11, 2021, 11:31:47 pm »
That makes a weird kind of sense. It's like...

Nines: dad friend archetype

Damsel: literally a communist

Skelter: hardass but super loyal and protective to his friends

Jack: "You know, I kinda like killing people with their own jawbones. Also uh... freedom? heheheh."

None of Nines and his crew live up to their ideals, but Jack is so far out in "freedom to be a douchebag" territory that I keep imaging my fledglings being like, "Hey, why do you even trust this guy? You know he's a total douche right?"

Canonically he's a master manipulator and that's enough to make the personality cult believable, but he could also probably Presence the others into liking him without them knowing, since he has 200+ years on all of them.

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Unanswered Storyline Questions
« Reply #64 on: March 12, 2021, 10:08:14 am »
I guess that Jack was in fact secretly Sabbat masquerading as an Anarch.
That makes no sense. His and cabbie's plan result in destroying the Sabbat in LA! The only faction that is not affected are the Anarchs...

Offline Happydeathclaw

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Re: Unanswered Storyline Questions
« Reply #65 on: March 12, 2021, 04:33:38 pm »
Canonically he's a master manipulator and that's enough to make the personality cult believable, but he could also probably Presence the others into liking him without them knowing, since he has 200+ years on all of them.


Something to look forward, eh? 200+ years ago Jack was also a fledgling who was getting pushed around by every vampire with week of seniority over him

Offline fylimar

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Re: Unanswered Storyline Questions
« Reply #66 on: March 12, 2021, 05:58:05 pm »
I guess that Jack was in fact secretly Sabbat masquerading as an Anarch. It's a kind of theory that works best if kept unclear all way long, so it's not a very good idea to give answers to this very question... yet if so, I'd be glad to be right  :afro:
Smiling Jack is a very well known npc in the World of Darkness outside of the games. He is also clearly an anarch. His sometimes brutal demeanor is because he was a pirate in life , but he is not in league with the Sabbat.
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Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Unanswered Storyline Questions
« Reply #67 on: May 07, 2021, 04:04:11 pm »
The entire sarcophagus deal appears to be insignificant in the eyes of the Anarchs as a whole, since the entire process of staging up has been developed and performed by Jack with the assist of the Cabbie, in other words, Cain. Cam is also aloof to a degree, since Strauss acknowledges the prince's desire but no one except LaCroix and Jack talk about it extensively, while the Sabbath is all over the place, with Andrei referencing it here and there.


In my humble opinion, the entire Ankaran deal is a showdown between Jack and LaCroix with everyone else just getting into the crossfire. Ming wanted to play the game also, but I doubt that Jack planned her involvement. A funny detail isn't it? There is no evidence that good ol' Jack ever conspired with the Kuei or been in contact.
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Offline tarulu

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Re: Unanswered Storyline Questions
« Reply #68 on: May 07, 2021, 04:13:27 pm »
There is the Dane problem, it was either done by Jack or Ming. if it was done by Jack then why there is something about a creature similar to Ming Warform washing out in beach on news? if it was done by Ming how Prince which at the time had an alliance with Ming was unaware.

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Unanswered Storyline Questions
« Reply #69 on: May 07, 2021, 04:15:20 pm »
The entire sarcophagus deal appears to be insignificant in the eyes of the Anarchs as a whole, since the entire process of staging up has been developed and performed by Jack with the assist of the Cabbie, in other words, Cain.
Which to me is a clear sign that Jack told the Anarchs the sarcophagus is not worth caring about, to prevent them to be caught in the cross-fire. After all for him it is a tool to get the whole city back into Anarch hands.

Quote
In my humble opinion, the entire Ankaran deal is a showdown between Jack and LaCroix with everyone else just getting into the crossfire.
I disagree. Here is what Jack says to the Cabbie in the end: "Hey, it happened just like you said. [Jack laughs]They never even knew what hit 'em. Threw that sarcophagus out there and they just tore each other up tryin' to get to it." Which means that it was all Cabbie's idea and he did indeed plan to hit as many factions as possible.

About the creature washed to the beach, this is on the other coast of the USA and thus not connected.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2021, 04:35:45 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Unanswered Storyline Questions
« Reply #70 on: May 07, 2021, 04:30:22 pm »
Still, even if Jack had been in correspondence with Ming, fully aware of their rising numbers and abilities as he said himself, there would be too much collateral damage. Even if the Cam gets ousted, he had been willing to risk another war where doubtlessly a whole lot of anarchs would die so it loses the point, since I doubt that the Sabbath would sit on the sidelines - maybe they would finish off the both of them, since their numbers had been on the rise. If he had a certain way/method to ensure that the Cam loses, that the Kuei become too weak to put up a fight and that the Sabbath posed no threat, I think that only then Jack's plan would hold water.




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Offline Wesp5

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Re: Unanswered Storyline Questions
« Reply #71 on: May 07, 2021, 04:38:11 pm »
Still, even if Jack had been in correspondence with Ming, fully aware of their rising numbers and abilities as he said himself, there would be too much collateral damage.
I think you misunderstand the situation. At the time of Bloodlines the Anarchs had a war with the Kuei-Jin and were so weakened by it, that the Camarilla could install a prince and the Sabbat invade their territory too. So regardless of the Cabbie's plans, Jack warning the Anarchs off would mean that only other factions would be weakened by fighting over the box with LA ending up back in Anarch hands!
« Last Edit: May 07, 2021, 04:40:02 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Unanswered Storyline Questions
« Reply #72 on: May 07, 2021, 05:11:30 pm »
What about the Sabbath though?

I admit that your argument is more than viable regarding the major trio, but I don't think that the Black Hand would be a pushover and that easily removed. Who knows, maybe they can be the wild card that in the end takes over the entirety of LA once the dust settles. Their numbers are constantly on the rise and a whole lot of them had been continually pouring in from other countries.
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Offline Wesp5

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Re: Unanswered Storyline Questions
« Reply #73 on: May 07, 2021, 05:49:15 pm »
What about the Sabbath though?
I guess they came to LA because they too heard that the Anarchs were weakened, and Jack knew exactly that they would be triggered by the rumour of an Antediluvian in the box. So even if there wouldn't have been the player to help the story along, Jack had hoped that Camarilla, Sabbat and Kuei-Jin would hurt each other. Especially as he gave the key to the Kuei-Jin to start it all. But I would argue that he couldn't have figured that the Nosferatu got the Giovanni involved, so their demise was probably an unintentional bonus :)!

Offline Talyn82

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Re: Unanswered Storyline Questions
« Reply #74 on: May 08, 2021, 09:02:56 pm »
What about the Sabbath though?
I guess they came to LA because they too heard that the Anarchs were weakened, and Jack knew exactly that they would be triggered by the rumour of an Antediluvian in the box. So even if there wouldn't have been the player to help the story along, Jack had hoped that Camarilla, Sabbat and Kuei-Jin would hurt each other. Especially as he gave the key to the Kuei-Jin to start it all. But I would argue that he couldn't have figured that the Nosferatu got the Giovanni involved, so their demise was probably an unintentional bonus :)!


Jack is a mastermind.  Also I have a lingering question.  It's safe to assume that it was Jack who slaughtered the crew of the Elizabeth Dane.  How did Jack retain any of his humanity?  I assume if the fledgling would have slaughtered the cops, they would have lost all of their humanity.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2021, 09:08:25 pm by Wesp5 »

 

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