Those Giovanni Spirits?

[MadamePhoenica]

POSSIBLE SPOILER - Now this has probably been asked before, but I have tried to search and cannot find any information on it. I'm not new to the game, however I have only recently discovered after I defeat the Chang Brothers and before I go back to LaCroix with the sarcophagus, that when I attack one of the stone slabs with the men holding a sword, a "spirit" comes springing out. I have not been able to figure out what they're for. In trying to search for an answer, I also discovered a small room with a well (the well apparently being added by one of the modders) which also has a spirit in it when you first enter the room, before it eventually disappears. Can anyone shed any light on this?

[Wesp5]

I can do that, because it's a restoration done by the plus version of the Unofficial Patch :). I did this because I found the following description in item_w_chang_ghost.txt, which is used in the final game for the explosion the brothers cause when they get together instead:

// Chang Ghost Projectile that is spawned when a coffin is broken open

It seems Troika changed this last minute, but don't ask me why there are ghosts to be in these coffins in the first place. Or maybe ask the Giovanni ;)!

[Raving_Neonate]

I can do that, because it's a restoration done by the plus version of the Unofficial Patch :). I did this because I found the following description in item_w_chang_ghost.txt, which is used in the final game for the explosion the brothers cause when they get together instead:

// Chang Ghost Projectile that is spawned when a coffin is broken open

It seems Troika changed this last minute, but don't ask me why there are ghosts to be in these coffins in the first place. Or maybe ask the Giovanni ;)!

Spaghetti and Corpses boss... spaghetti and corpses... ;)

[The Shadow Man]

There's a well room?

[MadamePhoenica]

There's a well room?

Yep. I didn't even know it was there until I started researching the spirits

[MadamePhoenica]

It seems Troika changed this last minute, but don't ask me why there are ghosts to be in these coffins in the first place. Or maybe ask the Giovanni ;)!

I do wonder if it is more to do with the Kuei Jin than the Giovanni. If you remember, there are two of these "coffins" in the Fu Syndicate (which contained no such spirits, I tried lol). But could these spirits be waiting to be "reborn through the second breath" perhaps..........?

The other thing I noticed is that when I "cut them out", they make noises ranging from maniacal laughter, to screaming, to saying "don't touch me" (as well as hurting me if I stand too close). Rather odd indeed.

I guess I was just checking to make sure they weren't part of any side quests I wasn't aware of

[Raving_Neonate]

I am convinced that those spirits are the result of Giovanni necromancy. Since they like experimenting with death and its aspects (poor Capaddocians ;) ), maybe these souls were "extracted" for their own experiments... e.g. reanimating a corpse.

[Wesp5]

I do wonder if it is more to do with the Kuei Jin than the Giovanni. If you remember, there are two of these "coffins" in the Fu Syndicate (which contained no such spirits, I tried lol).

Oh, that'a restoration from me too, like the well room. For the latter I found the unused models called gio_water_pump and gio_wish_well and others and placed it into a completely empty room in the crypt. For the former I did the same with two completely empty rooms in the Fu Syndicate, to imply that the Kuei-Jin were already researching into the Giovanni and the sarcophagus. Of course I don't know what Troika intented to do with these rooms, but they were clearly unfinished!

[IanW]

Yeah, the Giovanni's whole schtick is their expertise with Necromancy. When one of the Kindred needs a ghost dealt with, they'll often turn to the Giovanni. Bound ghosts would be in their catacombs for the same reason the zombies would be: mostly to serve as aides for various tasks or rituals.

[MadamePhoenica]

I do wonder if it is more to do with the Kuei Jin than the Giovanni. If you remember, there are two of these "coffins" in the Fu Syndicate (which contained no such spirits, I tried lol).

Oh, that'a restoration from me too, like the well room. For the latter I found the unused models called gio_water_pump and gio_wish_well and others and placed it into a completely empty room in the crypt. For the former I did the same with two completely empty rooms in the Fu Syndicate, to imply that the Kuei-Jin were already researching into the Giovanni and the sarcophagus. Of course I don't know what Troika intented to do with these rooms, but they were clearly unfinished!

Ah that makes sense. I had wondered what the go was with those rooms (and now that I think about it, they were empty until I had installed the Unofficial Patch). I have to admit I'm surprised I didn't think of that, as I've just begun to experiment a little with editing things in the game

I am convinced that those spirits are the result of Giovanni necromancy. Since they like experimenting with death and its aspects (poor Capaddocians ;) ), maybe these souls were "extracted" for their own experiments... e.g. reanimating a corpse.

That makes sense as well. Admittedly much more sense than my Kuei Jin theory. You're right about the Cappadocians too, I remember something about that from Redemption. The Giovanni had brought the entire Cappadocian clan their final death, and possibly in that fashion. As you said before, "Spaghetti and corpses, boss" lol

[IanW]

I remember the explanation of Ming Xiao about her kin, something like this: "The Second Breath - our rebirth into the supernatural form. It is a spiritual awakening, not some lowly blood ritual meant to spread a despicable curse."

The Kuei-jin in brief:

Someone dies and ends up in one of the Thousand Hells. But for whatever reason, through strength of will, they crawl their way out of Hell and back to their corpse (or, sometimes, someone else's corpse). They re-awaken, they bodies newly made whole. This is the Second Breath. As Ming Xiao says, they're not the subjects of a random curse: it's a purposeful event unique to each Kuei-jin.

Their bodies can no longer create their own Chi to stay alive, so they must obtain it from others. By default, they can obtain it from the blood of others. Kuei-jin seek a sort of enlightenment, which takes the place of Kindred Humanity and Generation. If they fall down the scale, they are little more than mindless, dangerous beasts who need to take Chi from others' flesh. Conversely, as they increase in enlightenment, they may rarefy their processes enough that they can extract Chi from the breath of the living. The most enlightened Bodhisattvas can obtain Chi by osmosis from their surroundings by meditation.