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Offline InTech

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Multiplayer Plot/Mechanics?
« on: August 12, 2017, 12:16:45 AM »
Okay so I've been messing around with the text documents and I noticed there are multiplayer patterns for Clans and this lead me to start thinking about how it could work...

The purpose of this thread:
Let's try to crowd source a plot and general concept for the Vampire the Masquerade:Bloodlines multiplayer mode which is teased but was never implemented in the main game...

Here's my thoughts:
Similar to L4D2 (and borrowing some ideas from TF2) specifically the idea of an over all plot line, you can complete scenario campaigns within and each scenario could be segmented (in the same way as L4D2) perhaps reaching some sort of 'safe zone'.

Werewolves as 'Tanks' if you've ever played L4D you know what I mean. :cometome:

The bit that could be borrowed from TF2 is developing your actual character classes, Clans, rather than the game just giving you a random Character.
When you complete segment within each Scenario as a Clan (and possibly Gender, since the interactions in the single player do differ) you would gain XP.
You can then spend your XP for that character (and only that character) at any time then jump back into the game.
What I'm unsure about is if you should be able to refund dots without killing your character (the Rogue in me says 'no')?
Also should loot be transferable between your Characters?

Plot:
On location maybe the Jungle? It was a location that's supposed to be in the original game but obviously not used.
One of the concepts I've been toying with, is the idea of a Supernatural Camarilla prison with themed areas (based on different parts of the WoD).

Time Period: Modern might be awesome, my fan fiction-y concept is the idea that Gehenna ends with a victory for the most extreme end of the Technocracy and as a result the world turns against the supernatural for a period of time with dramatic genocidal results.
I imagine it as a reversal of the Remero-Zombie trope with a group of Undead Vampires fighting off hoards of normal-albeit-frenzied Human mobs plus more seasoned Vampire Hunters, MiB Technocracy Mecha and other specialised equipment joining in on the action.
That said the Inquisition in Europe during the Medieval-Renaissance period was pretty Brutal too so that could be interesting.

So any ideas/thoughts/ruminations?

Also how do you change the dialogue for clans? I want my new Malkavian spin-off Bloodline to well... talk like one.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 12:23:06 AM by InTech »



Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Multiplayer Plot/Mechanics?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2017, 07:47:12 AM »
May I drop in on this one? ;)

I resisted the idea of it going multiplayer, but eventually eased. I haven't played a lot of mmo titles (to be frank, only two) so my opinion is based on what I would like.

I would prefer an open world, where you can go around finishing missions and earning xp. The idea of having limited space is not something that I would prefer, but something like WOW or Guild Wars I guess. Just give me my vamp and let me roam around.

However, I can't help but notice several concepts or mechanics that cannot be easily implemented: frenzy and the whole beast concept; bloodloss that would make the game more interesting; difference between masquarade and non-masquarade areas; introduction of non-vampire beings (werewolves, wraiths etc) and their role. Due these reasons alone I cannot perceive a multiplayer game.

However, since this topic is about a multiplayer segment of the original game, maybe that Left for Dead mechanic could be implemented. Still, the original game is focused on story and detailed narrative, so the shift into the hardcore multiplayer would be difficult to imagine/realize in my humble opinion.
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Offline 4ngelgirl

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Re: Multiplayer Plot/Mechanics?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2017, 01:10:06 PM »
This reminds me of a video I saw a few years ago:



(here's the link in case the player wasn't working: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6ufsRyuzRU)



I would prefer an open world, where you can go around finishing missions and earning xp. The idea of having limited space is not something that I would prefer, but something like WOW or Guild Wars I

I would absolutely love to play a game like this too! *.*
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 01:12:06 PM by AngelsForever »

Offline The Shadow Man

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Re: Multiplayer Plot/Mechanics?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2017, 02:12:21 PM »
This reminds me of a video I saw a few years ago:



(here's the link in case the player wasn't working: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6ufsRyuzRU)

I remember that video, its great. Anyone know how to do that?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 04:46:22 PM by Wesp5 »

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Multiplayer Plot/Mechanics?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2017, 04:50:11 PM »
I remember that video, its great. Anyone know how to do that?

The info has been in the Unofficial Patch readme for years, as the Bloodlines MP has always been working with some limitations, the first being that the server player mustn't touch the ground (make it dedicated and place the player of the server somewhere invisible using noclip), second that players can't hurt each others (so basically only coop is possible) and third that some maps crash (which might be fixable). I'm not at all into MP myself, but I've even created some different clan starting loadouts. It would be cool if someone would build a real MP mod out of this, like have hunters attack the Venture Tower or have vampires attack the Society of Leopold base...

Offline InTech

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Re: Multiplayer Plot/Mechanics?
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2017, 11:18:53 PM »
I would prefer an open world, where you can go around finishing missions and earning xp. The idea of having limited space is not something that I would prefer, but something like WOW or Guild Wars I guess. Just give me my vamp and let me roam around.

However, I can't help but notice several concepts or mechanics that cannot be easily implemented: frenzy and the whole beast concept; bloodloss that would make the game more interesting; difference between masquarade and non-masquarade areas; introduction of non-vampire beings (werewolves, wraiths etc) and their role. Due these reasons alone I cannot perceive a multiplayer game.

A true Monster Mash MMO (or MMMMO if you will) sounds cool!  :vampsmile: But also ultimately sounds more like a completely new game rather than an extension of Bloodlines. (Also not sure how Wraith/Changeling interaction would work.)

However, since this topic is about a multiplayer segment of the original game, maybe that Left for Dead mechanic could be implemented. Still, the original game is focused on story and detailed narrative, so the shift into the hardcore multiplayer would be difficult to imagine/realize in my humble opinion.

One of the main advantage of the Left4Dead style of story-telling is that you can show off and hint at a larger plot without being the focus of it.
(Through Newspapers, Radio, TV's playing, Propaganda, Adverts and the like.)

I remember that video, its great. Anyone know how to do that?

The info has been in the Unofficial Patch readme for years, as the Bloodlines MP has always been working with some limitations, the first being that the server player mustn't touch the ground (make it dedicated and place the player of the server somewhere invisible using noclip), second that players can't hurt each others (so basically only coop is possible) and third that some maps crash (which might be fixable). I'm not at all into MP myself, but I've even created some different clan starting loadouts. It would be cool if someone would build a real MP mod out of this, like have hunters attack the Venture Tower or have vampires attack the Society of Leopold base...

So it sort-of works but needs a dedicated modding and coding team to smooth things to point where it would be slick enough for future Unofficial Patch viability?
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 12:29:52 AM by InTech »

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Multiplayer Plot/Mechanics?
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2017, 09:16:23 AM »
So it sort-of works but needs a dedicated modding and coding team to smooth things to point where it would be slick enough for future Unofficial Patch viability?

Yes. And I don't know if this could be part of the Unofficial Patch or should better be a completely seperate standalone Bloodlines: Multiplayer Mod.

Offline The Shadow Man

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Re: Multiplayer Plot/Mechanics?
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2017, 02:37:30 PM »
Well I think the complexity of the plot would really depend on the style of multiplayer, a campaign style (I think this would be the correct term) most likely wouldn't need much of a plot, it could just do something with say battles between a PC team and NPC team, PC vs PC team or a mix of PC and NPC on each team or one of them, alternatively everyone for themselves would work for this too.
A full story-line for multiplayer or a MMO type deal would be whole different deals all together.

Incidentally a jungle could be a good environment to use.

Offline InTech

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Re: Multiplayer Plot/Mechanics?
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2017, 11:59:29 PM »
Incidentally a jungle could be a good environment to use.

Agreed, especially since the canape provides a ton of cover for Vampires to use against the Sun plus there's music written for a jungle area.

Finessed the multiplayer story a bit:

Imagine, a heavy Fort Knox-like prison that doesn't officially exist built deep in an extremely remote area of the Amazon jungle, securely holding some of the craziest criminals on the planet.
Underneath this prison is another prison built* by the Camarilla for supernaturals that might prove, 'useful' that are not only long dead to Kine but believed dead by Kindred, even the Inconnu don't know where this place is.

Within the prison within a prison, different supernaturals have different extra-dimensional environments created specifically to house those creatures and at the very bottom are the Vampires (and your location) kept in chains behind reinforced Plexiglas and fed mixed animal blood through a tube.

The Camarilla Prison remained active, even during Gehenna, as the Guards powers faded they had nowhere else to go.
But then Gehenna ended and with total Technocracy victory the world turned against the supernatural, rioting people dragged out into the streets shot, clubbed to death, old fashioned witch burning and all that horrific stuff,
Menacing Giant Technocracy Mecha** the size of skyscrapers stalk the streets, Hunters lead frenzied mobs and Black Helicopters are everywhere.

On the plus side your powers are back, an electrical fault has broken your magnetic chains and security measures on your cell.
This was most likely caused by your Guards being very absent lately and escaping 'somewhere'.
On the negative side you can clearly hear the tearing flesh and screams of human prisoners followed by gunfire from human prison security who seem to have found the Werewolf Pen directly above you.

If you work together you might get out... maybe.

Sound fun?

*The Camarilla would more than likely alter the plans to have a few more floors added, altering the plans again to make it look like they never existed.
They could then develop the structure deeper as required.

**They have Mecha of varying sizes.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 12:02:31 AM by InTech »

Offline Yosiel

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Re: Multiplayer Plot/Mechanics?
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2018, 12:04:18 AM »
Hello, it's been a long time since I visited the site but, like always, I was drawn myself again by the fond memories of this game and how my mind envisioned things that, sadly, it couldn't deliver.

The one thing I thought the most was how it would be a Multiplayer mode for VtM:B, it was one of the first things I lurked around when I found the forums. It would had been amazing if that way of playing could capture the same atmosphere I felt when I was at the table with friends roleplaying the PnP.

Since then, I haven't talked about much of it because I'm well aware of the limitations of the engine, but given how this post evolved into wishful thinking I aswell wanted to chime in what I would wanted if the game could support a Multiplayer experience:

This game should be its own thing in Multiplayer games, killing opposing players shouldn't be the goal, but rather just one of the ways to get what you wanted. What's more the sides wouldn't be fixed at the start of the game but rather changing by how the players interact with the enviroment. For example, I thought about how the game should start like a single player one, except that you are told that other fledgelings just arrived in SM, too. They became sireless after the Sabbat attack last night and now they are in the "same boat" as you, that mail ends with the suspicion that their Sire wasn't well known in the Camarilla, as it has just arrived and that they don't know their real motives to be here... The thing here is that all players all told the same. You are friend, foes? who knows?!

The hubs would be the same (it would be way easier if all buildings didn't need to be loaded everytime, but alas) with the exception that some people were replaced by the same character models as the PC, they walked and occasionally run to talk to NPCs, but they were human, so you could, for example identify them apart by their auras.

Whenever a player talks to someone, depending how they respond, the game tracks their dialog option and then assorts them by how much akin the answers are between each other, if they have similar Humanity, if they do not then that's how they are set apart.

Players can just guess if they share the same alignment, later on they could "ask" a resourceful vampire of the zone for a more concrete answer. If they share the same "team": whenever a player receives experience, half of that amount also goes to their partners, but if they are enemies, then when the player fails a Quest that team gains that XP.

A player could make a another fail the quest by killing another (so sad they can't be hurt currently) or rather making they enter into Torpor as they respawn nearby with less humanity and, let's say less money (to convey a transportation of the body to somewhere safe) and they drop an item they had on their inventory.

To boost the gameplay of not only combat stats, now you can "talk" with anybody who you couldn't talk before, well you only have 2/3 things to say, first everyone could make a Persuasion check to see if you can have a word with them, then you have 1 or 2 seconds to either Intimidate them into giving you money quietly without alerting the police, or seduce them to gain blood from them (Kindred could give you blood packs, maybe) if a persuasion feat should be added I'd suggest gaining 1xp and/or an item at random, but I don't want to make persuasion more powerful than it already is.

Law/Hunters enforcement should also be in need of re-programing as well as the Frenzy checks, to me 0 humanity would make you enter in beast mode, even with a large amount of blood, prompting more criminal and mascarade violations to make the game end.

I dunno about how one should "win" though, maybe a fight even between comrades to blow some steam at the end of a determined quest, but I would love to hear from you about this.

Farewell, it was nice to be reunited with you all again.

Yosiel

Offline argikt

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Re: Multiplayer Plot/Mechanics?
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2018, 11:06:39 AM »
I don't think that converting bloodlines in a half-life will be a good idea. Also your idea will need a lot of development... create werewolves as playables etc...

Also there will be a real problem that is celerity, this discipline has been implemented not accelerating you, is working deccelerating "the world" (in my oppinion a very good idea, I don't want to move faster and without control, I prefer all will be slow and I can do fine movements"

this metod will do mulpiplayer playing very boring. Imagine that someone in a 16 players map has celerity 5 and use it, you will play in a very slow motion during 10 minutes...
Game style will degenerate with the time, and any character without celerity won't be selected to play.

Offline Yosiel

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Re: Multiplayer Plot/Mechanics?
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2018, 05:04:33 PM »
Also there will be a real problem that is celerity, this discipline has been implemented not accelerating you, is working deccelerating "the world" (in my oppinion a very good idea, I don't want to move faster and without control, I prefer all will be slow and I can do fine movements"

this metod will do mulpiplayer playing very boring. Imagine that someone in a 16 players map has celerity 5 and use it, you will play in a very slow motion during 10 minutes...
Game style will degenerate with the time, and any character without celerity won't be selected to play.

Re: Celerity. As I have put a lot of thought on how the mechanics of the game should be, I wouldn't mind to play if this discipline now should work in an AoE bubble around the PC, preferebly not affecting through walls, (a lot of dev work I know) the radius of that should be more or less depending balancing issues.

If we are talking Multiplayer now, I think applying all impeding/restricting movement disciplines a cooldown of sorts could make the game more enjoyable to all. That or heavily increasing their blood cost as one have a finite amount of packs within their inventory.

Yosiel

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Multiplayer Plot/Mechanics?
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2018, 08:12:11 PM »
Speaking of multiplayer, why doesn't one of you create an actually working mod for it? The basics are working and the necessary setup is included in the UP readme. Now someone would only need to fix suitable maps by adding spawn points and similar with the SDK!

Offline Yosiel

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Re: Multiplayer Plot/Mechanics?
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2018, 10:54:11 PM »
Speaking of multiplayer, why doesn't one of you create an actually working mod for it? The basics are working and the necessary setup is included in the UP readme. Now someone would only need to fix suitable maps by adding spawn points and similar with the SDK!

Actual modding will be a thing I try when I retrieve my CDs from my home country, right now I'm not even playing the game, just watching it on YT  :facepalm:

But giving back to this community is something I always wanted to do, maybe I will first try translate the dialogs to Spanish from the latest Unofficial Patch, (¡si hay alguien que ya se encarga de eso, avísenme si necesitan ayuda!)

One of the biggest hurdles I find is the innability for PCs to hurt each other, there's no hope with that? I always found that the blood hunt in SM could have some key to resolve this problem but since I don't know coding is not something I researched... If there's no way to implement it, then it would be about to make Hunters models playable (akin to the Prelude you are working on) and a new map with the Society of Leopold to make a mini mission about liberating Ash or something...

Regards, Yosiel

« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 04:40:58 PM by Yosiel »

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Multiplayer Plot/Mechanics?
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2018, 11:08:10 PM »
One of the biggest hurdles I find is the innability for PCs to hurt each other, there's no hope with that?

Not that I know. But it doesn't matter for a Left2Dead kind of coop game.

Quote
If there's no way to implement it, then it would be about to make Hunters models playable ...

They already are, just type in the console mp- to check them out. We would just need dedicated maps for the hunters attacking a vampire stronghold or the other way around...

 

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