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Author Topic: Malkavia build help for 2nd playthrough  (Read 1302 times)

Offline aleque

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Malkavia build help for 2nd playthrough
« on: May 28, 2019, 08:23:37 PM »
Hi all

My first playthrough was a Toreador with focus on firearms, persuation and seduction. And some unarmed. (this was with Unofficial Patch Basic)

Now I am looking for a different experience with a Malkavia character (Unofficial Patch Plus). Combat-wise I want to focus on melee and probably some firearms, too.

I want a relatively easy playthrough, primarily focusing on the story and the dialogue. I also want this to be as entertaining as possible regarding squeezing as much craziness out of a Malkavian regarding what they can do and say.

Socially, I want to go for Persuation but I am not sure how much, since I am confused regarding how much it matters, in regard to Dominate / Dementation (are they even the same thing?).

I heard that Dementation affects the things I can say to others but how much should I level it in order to be optimal and not too much? And how does it work in conjunction with other convo-skills like Persuation?

I attached 2 pics below. The one is of my current build (Malk) and the other is my previous char (Toreador). This is so you can estimate the different experience that I am looking to create.

There is a bit too many possibilities regarding builds and I just want to find a decent build that lets me kick as$ in combat (the crazy melee way - with a knife or an axe). And most of all, I would love some suggestions on which primary skills to focus on. Dementation? Persuation? Seduction?

I also considered Obfuscate and use it to sneak and kill with melee. But should I then forget the normal Sneaking skill? It's ok if the game becomes "too easy". I just want to feel like I am controlling an insane character that even scares me.

Please help me out.

EDIT: And what abot Perception - does it affect dialogue in any way?
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 05:28:23 PM by Wesp5 »

Offline Barabbah

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Re: Malkavia build help for 2nd playthrough
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2019, 08:48:13 PM »
Well, I'm not good in spending points (always used the auto feature. I'm a mediocre rpg gamer....)
One thing I can say is as a malk you have a completely different set of wacky dialogs. Some are special like dominate or persuasion, you brainwash them but with a malk twist flavor.
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Offline aleque

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Re: Malkavia build help for 2nd playthrough
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2019, 09:07:50 PM »
Well, I'm not good in spending points (always used the auto feature. I'm a mediocre rpg gamer....)
One thing I can say is as a malk you have a completely different set of wacky dialogs. Some are special like dominate or persuasion, you brainwash them but with a malk twist flavor.

Yeah, the things You say are different. Just pity, that how others respond to that is mostly generic - they reply as if you said it in a normal way, as another "normal" character. I have only gotten a few special responses reserved to a Malk, but I only just began.

And regarding Dominate VS Persuade. I am not sure which one is 1). most fun/interesting/entertaining and 2). most effective/practical.

I wish Intimidate was useful enough. Could be fun to scare NPCs into doing what you want them to do throughout the entire game. But I heard it was crap.

And Seduction... well - still kind of confused how good this one is, especially on a Malk. I'd gladly sacrifice some practicality of my build for some more WTF-hilarious-moments.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 09:13:08 PM by aleque »

Offline Malkav

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Re: Malkavia build help for 2nd playthrough
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2019, 09:59:13 PM »
You still need persuasion because not every persuasion situation also has a dementation option. But there are some quite good ones, so be prepared to use both. Without saying too much, dementation is fun with the russian in the parking lot and the food critic.
For seduction, the blooddoll dialogs are a bit different from the usual ones, but not much so. So I'd say taking seduction or not is mostly decided by the question if you want to hunt for your blood or use the easier way with blooddolls. With the plus patch you may want to have seduction 4 when talking to Jeannette after the Ocean House.
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Offline aleque

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Re: Malkavia build help for 2nd playthrough
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2019, 10:07:31 PM »
You still need persuasion because not every persuasion situation also has a dementation option. But there are some quite good ones, so be prepared to use both. Without saying too much, dementation is fun with the russian in the parking lot and the food critic.
For seduction, the blooddoll dialogs are a bit different from the usual ones, but not much so. So I'd say taking seduction or not is mostly decided by the question if you want to hunt for your blood or use the easier way with blooddolls. With the plus patch you may want to have seduction 4 when talking to Jeannette after the Ocean House.

or use the easier way with blooddolls <-- please elaborate. Are those only the club chicks or the hookers too?

With the plus patch you may want to have seduction 4 when talking to Jeannette after the Ocean House. <-- I only had 2 in Seduction when I did. But I had higher Seduction on my Toreador (edit: oh, it was on Basic...) and got some flirty lines with her. Did I miss something special on my Malk? You are welcome to spoil it.

Btw, good to get advice from a Malk(av) :D

Offline aleque

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Re: Malkavia build help for 2nd playthrough
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2019, 11:16:01 PM »
"With the plus patch you may want to have seduction 4 when talking to Jeannette after the Ocean House." <-- oh, I thoughts you meant the house where Mercurio's attackers reside. I still have time to get 4 Seduction, then :)

Offline z

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Re: Malkavia build help for 2nd playthrough
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2019, 06:42:30 AM »
For your question about Persuasion and Dementation, IMO both are useful. Because there are some results you cannot get even if you have high dementation.. My personnal advice is to aim for Persuasion 9 (but not persuation 10 as there is NO dialogues that needs persuasion 10 in the game).

I just looked at your character sheet and I notice that you spend a lot of exp in Finance and 4 exp in Manipulation.
IMO, this is not necessary.
You can obtain the three first dots in Finance for free : first dot with Trip's mission for drugs (beginning of the game), second dot with fat Larry (but you have to get AT LEAST persuasion 5 to trigger this...) and the third dot in a finance book (the book is on a table, when you do the russian mafia quest for Venus Dare). And there you go : 3 FREE dots in Finance, I don't think you need more dots in Finance (I always end the game with more than 2000$ that I don't know how to spend so...)

As for the seduction skill, it's useless (as it gives you NO additional experience point throughout the game. You can do every quest without seduction). BUT you maybe want to have 4 in seduction to... have fun with Jeanette, and maybe 6 if you want to seduce some girls in the clubs (if you want easy feed) and pink dialogues options with VV (even if at the end of the day, even a Nosferaltu with 0 seduction can have the best result with VV haha).
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 07:36:42 AM by z »

Offline aleque

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Re: Malkavia build help for 2nd playthrough
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2019, 04:01:18 PM »
Cool, thanks for info.

I use this guide for skill books, but unfortunately it has no info regarding NPCs, who also give you skills: https://vtmb.fandom.com/wiki/Skill_Books

EDIT: Oh, nvm, here: https://vtmb.fandom.com/wiki/Teachers

My build looks like this so far (see pic below): Green = free skills from found books. Orange = Pawn shop guy skill from drug quest.

For PC passwords I decided to "cheat", rationalizing that I got a secretly obtained master-list by the higher powers. I other words - I have a list of all passwords.

Also, I started using NOCLIP to travel faster in towns, etc.

And btw I got the kinky scene with Jeanette and I liked it.

Going to focus on Persuation, Melee, Dementation and Obfuscate. Not sure how much skill (for each), tho. Will try and hit Persuation 9 eventually. Still not sure if Dementation needs a certain skill/level to unlock all the red lines in convos.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 04:10:31 PM by aleque »

Offline z

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Re: Malkavia build help for 2nd playthrough
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2019, 04:19:10 PM »
Quote from: aleque

Going to focus on Persuation, Melee, Dementation and Obfuscate. Not sure how much skill (for each), tho. Will try and hit Persuation 9 eventually. Still not sure if Dementation needs a certain skill/level to unlock all the red lines in convos.
Well, persuasion 9 is one of the easiest thing to get :
- Beckett can give you scholarship 4 at the Museum
- After you kill a certain boss, Isaac Abrams will give you the Pearl of Dubai (+1 charisma)
- And if you want, later in the game Beckett will give you an interesting choice : scholarship 5 OR a new discipline (only if you have high humanity and if you play with the unofficial patch. DON'T pick the blue option with Beckett at this point tho, it's a trap as you only get 1 exp haha)

So to be perfectly effective with Persuasion, you only have to concentrate on the 3 first dots on scholarship and the 2 first dots in charisma. The rest is free ;)

edit : I think that the higher your Dementation is, the better for the dialogues. I remember a very funny Dialogue with a certain girl at hollywood if you have at least Dementation 3. I won't spoil it tho haha ! Have fun ;)
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 04:27:42 PM by z »

Offline aleque

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Re: Malkavia build help for 2nd playthrough
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2019, 04:45:58 PM »
Damn, this game is chess.

Offline Barabbah

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Re: Malkavia build help for 2nd playthrough
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2019, 07:01:33 PM »
About only malks having special dialogs:
Dialog files were designed to gave each clan alternate answers (with malks having the options on all standard dialogs). At the end Troika could only add the malk ones but the option to add them is present (for example in the X20 mod Tremeres won't say to Strauss things like "yo max whazzup?" anymore but have a more formal approach)

About "noclip":
My advise to everyone I hadn't yet annoyed with this alternative: try instead "sv_runscale #" (where # is a number). This changes the velocity when running (if it can be called running....). 1 is the default value, 2 or 3 is a perfect choice.
I remember that time where I had the arsenal mod, used "sv_runscale 6", "debug_infinite_ammo 2" and "buddha", started the zombie cemetery quest and picked the grenade launcher (I had even to slow down in fear to break my pc XD)
Anyway, other similar cheats are "sv_walkscale #" (to change the walk speed, in other words when you press maiusc, default is 1) and "sv_sneakscale #" (the speed when crouched, default is 2.3, and yes, you can use decimals too)

About chess:
I never could to think of any strategy after the move I'm about to do. The same reason I suck at RPGs: never known how to build a character and how and when spend the few points at my disposal at the moment. I hate myself....
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 07:08:19 PM by Barabbah »
"Some quotations," said Zellaby, "are greatly improved by lack of context."
― John Wyndham, The Midwich Cuckoos
"fuck the hole in the face"
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Offline Happydeathclaw

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Re: Malkavia build help for 2nd playthrough
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2019, 08:47:06 PM »
Damn, this game is chess.

Black Isle -> Troika -> Obsidian is all about it

Offline Malkav

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Re: Malkavia build help for 2nd playthrough
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2019, 09:58:15 PM »
Quote from: aleque

Going to focus on Persuation, Melee, Dementation and Obfuscate. Not sure how much skill (for each), tho. Will try and hit Persuation 9 eventually. Still not sure if Dementation needs a certain skill/level to unlock all the red lines in convos.
Well, persuasion 9 is one of the easiest thing to get :
- Beckett can give you scholarship 4 at the Museum
- After you kill a certain boss, Isaac Abrams will give you the Pearl of Dubai (+1 charisma)
- And if you want, later in the game Beckett will give you an interesting choice : scholarship 5 OR a new discipline (only if you have high humanity and if you play with the unofficial patch. DON'T pick the blue option with Beckett at this point tho, it's a trap as you only get 1 exp haha)

So to be perfectly effective with Persuasion, you only have to concentrate on the 3 first dots on scholarship and the 2 first dots in charisma. The rest is free ;)
But the last point in scholarship from Beckett is too late. After all you need persuasion 9 for the Dirty Dishes quest. At least if you want to get all the dirty secrets. And you probably want to use the melee 5 book before the Chang brothers fight....
Quote
edit : I think that the higher your Dementation is, the better for the dialogues. I remember a very funny Dialogue with a certain girl at hollywood if you have at least Dementation 3. I won't spoil it tho haha ! Have fun ;)
I don't think you need Dementation higher than 3 in dialogs.
On the matter of Obfuscate. I think 2 is enough unless you want to get it to 5 before the museum. And even though the description says otherwise you don't need level 3 for stealth kills. When you have obfuscate 2 and get the stealth kill symbol, you can make a melee attack (use the "attack", not the "use" key) and do a stealth kill without breaking obfuscate. Start your Malk with obfuscate 2 so you have it for the tutorial and then forget about it.
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Offline z

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Re: Malkavia build help for 2nd playthrough
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2019, 10:13:31 PM »
Quote from: Malkav
But the last point in scholarship from Beckett is too late. After all you need persuasion 9 for the Dirty Dishes quest. At least if you want to get all the dirty secrets. And you probably want to use the melee 5 book before the Chang brothers fight....
Well, this was true until one of the last unofficial patch ;) For some reason, you can go back to the Giovanni Stronghold AFTER you speak to Beckett hehe !
I think Wesp made it possible just in case you forgot the book for Pisha. So you can do the the Dirty Dishes quest AFTER getting the point from Beckett (except if you agro them and make them hostile in your first visit, obviously haha).
Some would argue that being able to go back to the Giovanni should not be possible. And I agree as this is not logical. Even Pisha warn you that there is only ONE chance to get her book. But... Wesp5 made it possible => I couldn't resist ! Optimisation man 😈
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 10:21:04 PM by z »

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Malkavia build help for 2nd playthrough
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2019, 10:59:08 PM »
Even Pisha warn you that there is only ONE chance to get her book.

That was before you made the LA Giovanni go extinct :)!