collapse

Author [EN] [PL] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?  (Read 1763 times)

Offline Rubinia

  • Ancillus
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
  • Reputation: 3
  • Avatar made by drakonitka
Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2018, 03:12:35 PM »
I guess vampires could keep in hiding forever. Presicely, as long as they have Ventrues and Torreadores. With Domination and Presence charms people shall willingly forget and delete everything, all compromising data.

Personally I'd think I watch a special-effects improved clip rather than I see an evidence of supernatural activity, or I'd been forced into such belief with each and every action movie on the TV.

Apart from the fact the Masquarade concept is quirck and weird. Vampires with such powers would have already ruled the world. The best prove they don't exist.
"Having created something so extraordinary one would die happy, if one died."

"One is the path of a man, straight and plain: the never ending Crossroads."

Offline Wesp5

  • Administratrix
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 5163
  • Reputation: 849
  • Unofficial Patcher
Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2018, 04:30:22 PM »
I guess vampires could keep in hiding forever. Presicely, as long as they have Ventrues and Torreadores. With Domination and Presence charms people shall willingly forget and delete everything, all compromising data.

And don't forget the Nosferatu who can manipulate anything in computers...

Offline Barabbah

  • Ancillus
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
  • Reputation: 5
Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2018, 05:43:17 AM »
Nah, they would be too much worried about their selfies and duckfaces. Problem solved.
Quote
Fuckin' Humans
- Oderus Urungus

Offline Signothorn

  • God Hates Fangs
  • Administratrix
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 15045
  • Reputation: 1145
Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2018, 03:40:38 PM »
I think vampires could also become slaves to the tech giants. They'll be kind of forced to become cypherpunks in many ways. With facial recognition tracking your every move in public, combined with phones being tracked by mac address, and it being nearly impossible to avoid Amazon, FB, Google ect from tracking all your activities via their various api calls, they'll be forced to not have much of an un-life, or do something socially drastic in the other direction. Otherwise there will soon be a specific profile on vampires like the rest of us, and an algorithm could be used by law enforcement and Society of Leopold to determine who may be vamps in their area based on habits and purchases.

Offline Barabbah

  • Ancillus
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
  • Reputation: 5
Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2018, 06:25:09 PM »
I think vampires could also become slaves to the tech giants. They'll be kind of forced to become cypherpunks in many ways. With facial recognition tracking your every move in public, combined with phones being tracked by mac address, and it being nearly impossible to avoid Amazon, FB, Google ect from tracking all your activities via their various api calls, they'll be forced to not have much of an un-life, or do something socially drastic in the other direction. Otherwise there will soon be a specific profile on vampires like the rest of us, and an algorithm could be used by law enforcement and Society of Leopold to determine who may be vamps in their area based on habits and purchases.

vampires should already be working with the ones managing profiles and algoriths

Offline Signothorn

  • God Hates Fangs
  • Administratrix
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 15045
  • Reputation: 1145
Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #50 on: August 10, 2018, 04:24:27 PM »
I think vampires could also become slaves to the tech giants. They'll be kind of forced to become cypherpunks in many ways. With facial recognition tracking your every move in public, combined with phones being tracked by mac address, and it being nearly impossible to avoid Amazon, FB, Google ect from tracking all your activities via their various api calls, they'll be forced to not have much of an un-life, or do something socially drastic in the other direction. Otherwise there will soon be a specific profile on vampires like the rest of us, and an algorithm could be used by law enforcement and Society of Leopold to determine who may be vamps in their area based on habits and purchases.

vampires should already be working with the ones managing profiles and algoriths

How much influence would they have in the companies? Purely hypothetical that vampires could magically gain influence in companies, convincing the boards that it's in their best interest to forego potential income to reward shareholders in order to protect a select group of people. That takes extra work, rather than allowing the algorithms to function, and there would be reports to any amendments to it, so alterations couldn't be hidden. There are many such factors, and I think it would be an interesting quest to gain influence, but to assume the influence is already there for the sake of convenience is kind of lazy from a storytelling perspective imo. Those partnerships and relationships would need to be earned and maintained.

Offline deicide

  • Ancillus
  • ***
  • Posts: 162
  • Reputation: -5
Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #51 on: August 11, 2018, 07:33:13 AM »
They aren't normal sites. Such a resource is an enormous worldwide distributed network pandemonium that requires an appropriately abundant staff to operate. One could not ensure their loyalty, so they have a number of different lobbies spanning from goverment agencies to different companies. In WoD setting, such a situation will result in extra cainite lobby.
Ad tracking is easily avoidable, delete cookies after each search, use the browser that does not share an unique information, change IP if feeling extra paranoid, done. The most of these tech is actually cainite-friendly and shall be used against mortals, not vice versa.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 07:53:11 AM by deicide »

Offline Signothorn

  • God Hates Fangs
  • Administratrix
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 15045
  • Reputation: 1145
Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #52 on: August 11, 2018, 08:34:43 AM »
They aren't normal sites. Such a resource is an enormous worldwide distributed network pandemonium that requires an appropriately abundant staff to operate. One could not ensure their loyalty, so they have a number of different lobbies spanning from goverment agencies to different companies. In WoD setting, such a situation will result in extra cainite lobby.
Ad tracking is easily avoidable, delete cookies after each search, use the browser that does not share an unique information, change IP if feeling extra paranoid, done. The most of these tech is actually cainite-friendly and shall be used against mortals, not vice versa.

Somewhat, and it will vary by the country you're in. In the U.S., you're constantly being tracked if you have a phone. Whether it's anonymous data that could be tied to you, or knowing where your phone pings to build a profile where you shop, where you were when crimes were committed, that you go to the laundromat every tuesday and stop at Starbucks while the dryer is running ect. There was even a story last week how Facebook is wanting banks to share your transaction history with them to build stronger profiles. It's unavoidable. Deleting cookies only deletes the tracking on your end, our ISP's keep your web browsing history for several years by law, and a VPN doesn't solve that. The service providers like fb, amazon ect don't delete that data either. You'd have to be a very paranoid vampire who is constantly looking over your shoulder, unable to live a somewhat normal unlife in a higher position of power, because there are so many tools to scrutinize your current and past behaviors. So like you said, it would be a constant lobbying effort, but it's one that would be difficult to manage. It would be an ongoing ordeal, based on the reasons from my previous post.

Offline Barabbah

  • Ancillus
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
  • Reputation: 5
Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #53 on: August 11, 2018, 09:59:46 AM »
I think vampires could also become slaves to the tech giants. They'll be kind of forced to become cypherpunks in many ways. With facial recognition tracking your every move in public, combined with phones being tracked by mac address, and it being nearly impossible to avoid Amazon, FB, Google ect from tracking all your activities via their various api calls, they'll be forced to not have much of an un-life, or do something socially drastic in the other direction. Otherwise there will soon be a specific profile on vampires like the rest of us, and an algorithm could be used by law enforcement and Society of Leopold to determine who may be vamps in their area based on habits and purchases.

vampires should already be working with the ones managing profiles and algoriths

How much influence would they have in the companies? Purely hypothetical that vampires could magically gain influence in companies, convincing the boards that it's in their best interest to forego potential income to reward shareholders in order to protect a select group of people. That takes extra work, rather than allowing the algorithms to function, and there would be reports to any amendments to it, so alterations couldn't be hidden. There are many such factors, and I think it would be an interesting quest to gain influence, but to assume the influence is already there for the sake of convenience is kind of lazy from a storytelling perspective imo. Those partnerships and relationships would need to be earned and maintained.

Isn't this game supposed to be of vampires manipulating humanity in the shadows?

Offline deicide

  • Ancillus
  • ***
  • Posts: 162
  • Reputation: -5
Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #54 on: August 11, 2018, 10:02:13 AM »
Deleting cookies only deletes the tracking on your end, our ISP's keep your web browsing history for several years by law, and a VPN doesn't solve that.
Indeed, but that wasn't the point. Deleting cookies will reset UID which the browsing history is tied to. Subsequent search queries would be associated with a different user. As an example, Google UID = cookie + browser ID + IP.
As for ISP, while encrypted connections (like https) are untampered, they are free to store the white noise as long as they like.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 11:14:06 AM by deicide »

Offline Raving_Neonate

  • Rave.Period.
  • Methuselah
  • ****
  • Posts: 499
  • Reputation: 17
  • Raving somewhere....
Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #55 on: August 11, 2018, 03:38:35 PM »
I knew that Apple had been held by the Ventrue... it all comes together now... :D
Me: "I love lollipops!"
WoD ST: "We don't allow lollipops, because we are too dark!"

Offline Signothorn

  • God Hates Fangs
  • Administratrix
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 15045
  • Reputation: 1145
Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #56 on: August 11, 2018, 07:33:33 PM »



Isn't this game supposed to be of vampires manipulating humanity in the shadows?

Yes, and I'd assume this to be the case in some part, but not as easy as saying they automatically influence as a means of convenience. It just seems lazy, that's my point. I prefer vamps trying their best to avoid the radar, while other vamps try to gain influence to make that easier. I believe both are happening simultaneously and it's not as straight forward as assuming the influence is already there, it needs to be earned and maintained. I find that to be much more interesting.

Deleting cookies only deletes the tracking on your end, our ISP's keep your web browsing history for several years by law, and a VPN doesn't solve that.
Indeed, but that wasn't the point. Deleting cookies will reset UID which the browsing history is tied to. Subsequent search queries would be associated with a different user. As an example, Google UID = cookie + browser ID + IP.
As for ISP, while encrypted connections (like https) are untampered, they are free to store the white noise as long as they like.

You're right, it isn't entirely the point. There are means like deep packet inspection and NSA databases based on mac addresses ect, but that's not the point I'm attempting to make either. I'm just pointing out technically vampires would have more of a cypherpunk attitude or strategy rather, to protect the masquerade more than in the past. I think they'd be into crypto, TOR and any means they can think of to stay off big data's radar entirely. I think Nosferatu in particular would have crypto mining botnets of millions of "smart devices" and server farms ect. Then on the other end, vampires are trying to fight big data tech from within. I think it's an interesting dynamic with checks and balances. It's more than just cell phone cameras these days that can track and document locations and behaviors, and assuming influence to stop vamps from getting detected is always there is not practical and kinda boring imo. I hope I articulated that well, I'm not saying you're wrong.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 09:15:03 PM by Signothorn »

Offline deicide

  • Ancillus
  • ***
  • Posts: 162
  • Reputation: -5
Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #57 on: August 19, 2018, 06:11:07 PM »
And Ventrue would gamble on cryptocurrencies, own companies that develop mining hardware and sell drugs over darknet marketplaces (screw you, damn snakes), something in that vein. I think I understood what are you aiming at.
My point was that most of internet security techiques does not require a hacker's knowledge, I think 2-3 points in modern Computers (advanced user) will be enough in order to use the most.

Upd: or cainites' influence over major IT corporations, like Lasombra ruling Sun Microsystems, since without sun there are no shadows, while unscrupulous bussinessmans Ventrue would certainly put their hands into Oracle.
Not just kidding about Sun (R.I.P.), they were so uncompromising about quality that I could imagine it was actually owned by Lasombra, I've learnt proper C from their opened Solaris code, and I would say it's legendary for a reason. They were the last international IT corporation who really cared what will they leave behind. In other words, benevolent, though this is a weird epithet, knightly or "lived up to their own standards" will be more appropriate.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 10:35:34 AM by deicide »

Offline Aurelian

  • Fledgling
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • Reputation: 8
Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #58 on: August 26, 2018, 12:06:45 AM »
I knew that Apple had been held by the Ventrue... it all comes together now... :D

The true Jyhad would be manifested between various corporations that dominate our world, that is where the true battle would be fought.  A street melee is fundamentally meaningless in grand scheme of things.

Offline FleshArtist

  • Infernalist
  • Ancillus
  • ***
  • Posts: 191
  • Reputation: 13
Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #59 on: August 26, 2018, 08:50:12 AM »
We must assume that few vampires, mostly neonates or Nosferatu are truly tech savvy. Elders and the like who are strongly connected to centuries past and lower levels of technology would be at very high risk in the current 2018 world, or further into the future. Even if the Elders in question held great power behind the scenes, owned numerous companies, had government contacts, it would only be a matter of time before the sophisticated surveillance systems of the time caught onto their proclivities. If for example, we had an Elder Ventrue who pulled the strings of Google from the shadows, it would only be a matter of time before one of his mortal servants in the workplace happened to collect some "sensitive data" on his activities, unless he had a solid understanding of the modern world's technology, and how to avoid surveillance. On that note, Elders who are more cunning might perhaps live in remote and well secured mansions with fully loyal mortal servants who do know how to work with the technology of the current world. Such Elders would no doubt survive for a very long time into the future.

The majority of Neonates, if they would be anything like most consumers in the U.S or globally are, would have some knowledge, but limited knowledge on how deep technological surveillance and data mining truly goes, and those who are reckless could be caught by the Society of Leopold or related organizations relatively quickly, for we have plenty of reasons to believe the Society of Leopold has members and leaders who are well versed with modern computing and technology. Although the current human society is even more distanced from mysticism and superstition than before, the Society of Leopold would have even more capability to strike at the vampires in the midst of the human population, they could for example, using connections within global militaries, acquire drones to simply drone strike a suspected vampire's Haven. As time continues, the Society of Leopold and related Hunter organizations will acquire even more advanced technologies, further putting younger vampires at extreme risk.

With all that said, the Schrek.net of Clan Nosferatu is a curious feature. Mitnick managed to crack it after great effort, but had no understanding of it, and was embraced shortly after anyhow, and we also know that the Nosferatu are incredibly tech savvy, and would have a very deep understanding of contemporary and future computing and software. The technology improves, but not necessarily the skill of mortal hackers with it, and the Nosferatu are likewise masters of surveillance, so any hacker deemed a potential threat to the Masquerade would be watched and dealt with swiftly if need be.

In a world where individual privacy is near totally compromised, the Nosferatu, the Ventrue, the Lasombra, and the Toreador would be the most likely clans to adapt and survive. The other clans and Bloodlines would likely be exposed and destroyed, and the four mentioned would be forced to go underground or even deeper within the shadows.

This all leads me to ponder another question; How would vampires fare even further into the future where the potential for Transhumanism to become the norm is real, and the capabilities of cyborgs or biologically enhanced mortals may even exceed the powers and potential of the Blood of Caine save for the power of the Antediluvians and Fourth Generation? In such a case, Vampirism may very well become redundant.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 09:33:15 AM by FleshArtist »

 

* Game Files