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Offline Rubinia

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Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2018, 03:12:35 PM »
I guess vampires could keep in hiding forever. Presicely, as long as they have Ventrues and Torreadores. With Domination and Presence charms people shall willingly forget and delete everything, all compromising data.

Personally I'd think I watch a special-effects improved clip rather than I see an evidence of supernatural activity, or I'd been forced into such belief with each and every action movie on the TV.

Apart from the fact the Masquarade concept is quirck and weird. Vampires with such powers would have already ruled the world. The best prove they don't exist.
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Offline Wesp5

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Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2018, 04:30:22 PM »
I guess vampires could keep in hiding forever. Presicely, as long as they have Ventrues and Torreadores. With Domination and Presence charms people shall willingly forget and delete everything, all compromising data.

And don't forget the Nosferatu who can manipulate anything in computers...

Offline Barabbah

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Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2018, 05:43:17 AM »
Nah, they would be too much worried about their selfies and duckfaces. Problem solved.
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Offline Signothorn

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Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2018, 03:40:38 PM »
I think vampires could also become slaves to the tech giants. They'll be kind of forced to become cypherpunks in many ways. With facial recognition tracking your every move in public, combined with phones being tracked by mac address, and it being nearly impossible to avoid Amazon, FB, Google ect from tracking all your activities via their various api calls, they'll be forced to not have much of an un-life, or do something socially drastic in the other direction. Otherwise there will soon be a specific profile on vampires like the rest of us, and an algorithm could be used by law enforcement and Society of Leopold to determine who may be vamps in their area based on habits and purchases.

Offline Barabbah

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Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2018, 06:25:09 PM »
I think vampires could also become slaves to the tech giants. They'll be kind of forced to become cypherpunks in many ways. With facial recognition tracking your every move in public, combined with phones being tracked by mac address, and it being nearly impossible to avoid Amazon, FB, Google ect from tracking all your activities via their various api calls, they'll be forced to not have much of an un-life, or do something socially drastic in the other direction. Otherwise there will soon be a specific profile on vampires like the rest of us, and an algorithm could be used by law enforcement and Society of Leopold to determine who may be vamps in their area based on habits and purchases.

vampires should already be working with the ones managing profiles and algoriths

Offline Signothorn

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Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #50 on: August 10, 2018, 04:24:27 PM »
I think vampires could also become slaves to the tech giants. They'll be kind of forced to become cypherpunks in many ways. With facial recognition tracking your every move in public, combined with phones being tracked by mac address, and it being nearly impossible to avoid Amazon, FB, Google ect from tracking all your activities via their various api calls, they'll be forced to not have much of an un-life, or do something socially drastic in the other direction. Otherwise there will soon be a specific profile on vampires like the rest of us, and an algorithm could be used by law enforcement and Society of Leopold to determine who may be vamps in their area based on habits and purchases.

vampires should already be working with the ones managing profiles and algoriths

How much influence would they have in the companies? Purely hypothetical that vampires could magically gain influence in companies, convincing the boards that it's in their best interest to forego potential income to reward shareholders in order to protect a select group of people. That takes extra work, rather than allowing the algorithms to function, and there would be reports to any amendments to it, so alterations couldn't be hidden. There are many such factors, and I think it would be an interesting quest to gain influence, but to assume the influence is already there for the sake of convenience is kind of lazy from a storytelling perspective imo. Those partnerships and relationships would need to be earned and maintained.

Offline deicide

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Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #51 on: August 11, 2018, 07:33:13 AM »
They aren't normal sites. Such a resource is an enormous worldwide distributed network pandemonium that requires an appropriately abundant staff to operate. One could not ensure their loyalty, so they have a number of different lobbies spanning from goverment agencies to different companies. In WoD setting, such a situation will result in extra cainite lobby.
Ad tracking is easily avoidable, delete cookies after each search, use the browser that does not share an unique information, change IP if feeling extra paranoid, done. The most of these tech is actually cainite-friendly and shall be used against mortals, not vice versa.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 07:53:11 AM by deicide »

Offline Signothorn

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Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #52 on: August 11, 2018, 08:34:43 AM »
They aren't normal sites. Such a resource is an enormous worldwide distributed network pandemonium that requires an appropriately abundant staff to operate. One could not ensure their loyalty, so they have a number of different lobbies spanning from goverment agencies to different companies. In WoD setting, such a situation will result in extra cainite lobby.
Ad tracking is easily avoidable, delete cookies after each search, use the browser that does not share an unique information, change IP if feeling extra paranoid, done. The most of these tech is actually cainite-friendly and shall be used against mortals, not vice versa.

Somewhat, and it will vary by the country you're in. In the U.S., you're constantly being tracked if you have a phone. Whether it's anonymous data that could be tied to you, or knowing where your phone pings to build a profile where you shop, where you were when crimes were committed, that you go to the laundromat every tuesday and stop at Starbucks while the dryer is running ect. There was even a story last week how Facebook is wanting banks to share your transaction history with them to build stronger profiles. It's unavoidable. Deleting cookies only deletes the tracking on your end, our ISP's keep your web browsing history for several years by law, and a VPN doesn't solve that. The service providers like fb, amazon ect don't delete that data either. You'd have to be a very paranoid vampire who is constantly looking over your shoulder, unable to live a somewhat normal unlife in a higher position of power, because there are so many tools to scrutinize your current and past behaviors. So like you said, it would be a constant lobbying effort, but it's one that would be difficult to manage. It would be an ongoing ordeal, based on the reasons from my previous post.

Offline Barabbah

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Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #53 on: August 11, 2018, 09:59:46 AM »
I think vampires could also become slaves to the tech giants. They'll be kind of forced to become cypherpunks in many ways. With facial recognition tracking your every move in public, combined with phones being tracked by mac address, and it being nearly impossible to avoid Amazon, FB, Google ect from tracking all your activities via their various api calls, they'll be forced to not have much of an un-life, or do something socially drastic in the other direction. Otherwise there will soon be a specific profile on vampires like the rest of us, and an algorithm could be used by law enforcement and Society of Leopold to determine who may be vamps in their area based on habits and purchases.

vampires should already be working with the ones managing profiles and algoriths

How much influence would they have in the companies? Purely hypothetical that vampires could magically gain influence in companies, convincing the boards that it's in their best interest to forego potential income to reward shareholders in order to protect a select group of people. That takes extra work, rather than allowing the algorithms to function, and there would be reports to any amendments to it, so alterations couldn't be hidden. There are many such factors, and I think it would be an interesting quest to gain influence, but to assume the influence is already there for the sake of convenience is kind of lazy from a storytelling perspective imo. Those partnerships and relationships would need to be earned and maintained.

Isn't this game supposed to be of vampires manipulating humanity in the shadows?

Offline deicide

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Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #54 on: August 11, 2018, 10:02:13 AM »
Deleting cookies only deletes the tracking on your end, our ISP's keep your web browsing history for several years by law, and a VPN doesn't solve that.
Indeed, but that wasn't the point. Deleting cookies will reset UID which the browsing history is tied to. Subsequent search queries would be associated with a different user. As an example, Google UID = cookie + browser ID + IP.
As for ISP, while encrypted connections (like https) are untampered, they are free to store the white noise as long as they like.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 11:14:06 AM by deicide »

Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #55 on: August 11, 2018, 03:38:35 PM »
I knew that Apple had been held by the Ventrue... it all comes together now... :D
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Offline Signothorn

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Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #56 on: August 11, 2018, 07:33:33 PM »



Isn't this game supposed to be of vampires manipulating humanity in the shadows?

Yes, and I'd assume this to be the case in some part, but not as easy as saying they automatically influence as a means of convenience. It just seems lazy, that's my point. I prefer vamps trying their best to avoid the radar, while other vamps try to gain influence to make that easier. I believe both are happening simultaneously and it's not as straight forward as assuming the influence is already there, it needs to be earned and maintained. I find that to be much more interesting.

Deleting cookies only deletes the tracking on your end, our ISP's keep your web browsing history for several years by law, and a VPN doesn't solve that.
Indeed, but that wasn't the point. Deleting cookies will reset UID which the browsing history is tied to. Subsequent search queries would be associated with a different user. As an example, Google UID = cookie + browser ID + IP.
As for ISP, while encrypted connections (like https) are untampered, they are free to store the white noise as long as they like.

You're right, it isn't entirely the point. There are means like deep packet inspection and NSA databases based on mac addresses ect, but that's not the point I'm attempting to make either. I'm just pointing out technically vampires would have more of a cypherpunk attitude or strategy rather, to protect the masquerade more than in the past. I think they'd be into crypto, TOR and any means they can think of to stay off big data's radar entirely. I think Nosferatu in particular would have crypto mining botnets of millions of "smart devices" and server farms ect. Then on the other end, vampires are trying to fight big data tech from within. I think it's an interesting dynamic with checks and balances. It's more than just cell phone cameras these days that can track and document locations and behaviors, and assuming influence to stop vamps from getting detected is always there is not practical and kinda boring imo. I hope I articulated that well, I'm not saying you're wrong.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 09:15:03 PM by Signothorn »

Offline deicide

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Re: Is the masquerade doomed in the future?
« Reply #57 on: August 19, 2018, 06:11:07 PM »
And Ventrue would gamble on cryptocurrencies, own companies that develop mining hardware and sell drugs over darknet marketplaces (screw you, damn snakes), something in that vein. I think I understood what are you aiming at.
My point was that most of internet security techiques does not require a hacker's knowledge, I think 2-3 points in modern Computers (advanced user) will be enough in order to use the most.
« Last Edit: Today at 03:03:20 AM by deicide »

 

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