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Author Topic: In the upstairs bathroom at The Asylum...  (Read 9525 times)

Offline Rick Gentle

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Re: In the upstairs bathroom at The Asylum...
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2011, 06:15:18 AM »
I thought he was a Ventrue, before I realized he was an Anarch and he said he was Toreador. He's definitely one of the more well-done Toreador I've ever seen. I'm still very interested in Velvet Velour perfecting her art, though.   :cometome:
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Offline PGM1961

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Re: In the upstairs bathroom at The Asylum...
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2011, 10:22:16 AM »
This is true.  Overall, the character's demeanor, motives, physical appearance, etc. are balanced between plausible and interesting in a way that none of the other Nosferatu are.  Most of the others blatantly run afoul of one or more Nossie cliches eventually.

Similarly, I think Isaac is the least cliche Toreador in the game.

I agree with both of these.  Too bad the rest of the Bloodlines crew weren't as original as these two.  I still love the game, of course; but I wish we could tweak some of the main NPCs.

As for the teeth issue... who wants yellow teeth?  Keep them clean.

I thought he was a Ventrue, before I realized he was an Anarch and he said he was Toreador. He's definitely one of the more well-done Toreador I've ever seen. I'm still very interested in Velvet Velour perfecting her art, though.   :cometome:

VV is a poseur, but they are a part of Toreador society too.  It's no wonder Isaac doesn't mention her.  From what she says, and her poetry, I'm pretty sure Isaac is her sire; but it's obvious Ash is his favorite.
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Offline G-Flex

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Re: In the upstairs bathroom at The Asylum...
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2011, 12:31:56 PM »
This is true.  Overall, the character's demeanor, motives, physical appearance, etc. are balanced between plausible and interesting in a way that none of the other Nosferatu are.  Most of the others blatantly run afoul of one or more Nossie cliches eventually.

Gary Golden is the most disappointing in that regard, as he acts like he's totally monstrous and hideous, yet... he looks more normal than any of the other Nosferatu in the game.

Offline Porphyria

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Re: In the upstairs bathroom at The Asylum...
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2011, 01:04:43 PM »

Similarly, I think Isaac is the least cliche Toreador in the game.

When you are comparing him to someone like Ash, that isn't hard.

Offline VentrueIan

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Re: In the upstairs bathroom at The Asylum...
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2011, 01:16:50 PM »
My biggest disappointment in regards to clan cliche's was in Lacroix. They tried so hard to make him a typical Ventrue that they made him generic.
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Offline Radical21

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Re: In the upstairs bathroom at The Asylum...
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2011, 02:01:56 PM »

Gary Golden is the most disappointing in that regard, as he acts like he's totally monstrous and hideous, yet... he looks more normal than any of the other Nosferatu in the game.

Thats because of all of them he is the one that used to be the most vain in the days when he was still a popular actor.

Offline Rick Gentle

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Re: In the upstairs bathroom at The Asylum...
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2011, 09:07:20 PM »
EDIT

Given Gary Golden's concept, I find it highly believable that he'd Embrace Imalia as a Cleopatra just to teach her "a life lesson". However, I don't like that of all the Nosferatu you meet in the game, fully 20% of them are Cleopatra. (I totally forgot about poor Barrabus!) I don't think the Nosferatu would waste the time or energy Embracing that high a number of Cleopatras - what would they DO? How would they be useful to the warren? Imalia, from what we've seen of her, spends all her time in her room just ooooozing jealousy all over Tawni Sessions. Maybe now that Sessions is dead, she'll be able to move on and become a productive member of Nosferatu society. But I find it a lot more likely she'll just find a new target and remain the same static character ad infinitum.
Mitnick is the same, just with entirely different qualities, like obscure references to ecryption programs and hacker code. (I'm sure you've seen his "leetspeak" name in the emails he sends you.)
Gary Golden... well, it has to be said. He's still a vainglorious bastard stuck in the past pretending to be something he's not. I love him, and I wish the game included more quests from him... But he's no Calebros. He's not even a Bertram Tung.
Tung is THE Nosferatu in the game, and if I had been designing it, I would've switched him and Gary Golden around. Golden may be older, but Tung has all the merits to lead. On the other hand, Tung is sort of the working-man's Nosferatu, and if he's busy with all of that, he may not have time to lead. But I didn't get the impression that Golden did anything more than give Tung the occassional order that interfered with the real business Tung was conducting.

And when I say "art", PGM1961, I'm aware that Velour is a poseur.   :justabite:  But can you honestly tell me you wouldn't want to preserve the illusion that much longer?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 10:47:19 AM by Rick Gentle »
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Offline G-Flex

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Re: In the upstairs bathroom at The Asylum...
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2011, 10:54:42 PM »
Wait, how is Mitnick a Cleopatra? He was just some guy they dragged in because he's damn good with computers, and because he stumbled upon knowledge he shouldn't have. He doesn't even mind being an ugly son-of-a-bitch.

My biggest disappointment in regards to clan cliche's was in Lacroix. They tried so hard to make him a typical Ventrue that they made him generic.

I would agree, except it seems clear enough to me that LaCroix tries to play to that stereotype. He poses as a typical, strong-willed Ventrue, yet it's obvious he's an insecure, petty brat with little self-control.

Offline PGM1961

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Re: In the upstairs bathroom at The Asylum...
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2011, 11:15:30 PM »
After several decades, Gary is obviously still bitter about his Embrace.  He is one of those people who saves up all the crap they have to take on their way up, and then take delight in turning around and dumping it on the people who are below them.  He had his fame stolen away, so by God he's going to do the same to someone else.

I'm certain Mitnick and all the other Nosferatu hate the fact that Gary Embraced Imalia.  Who wants to associate with a whiny bitch like that every day?  Even if the Warrens had been full of Nossies, Imalia would've still been alone in her room, fuming.  I think you're right... she won't change.

I don't think Tung would want to be Nos Primogen, any more than he wants to be Prince/Baron of Santa Monica.  He's field personnel, and he'd hate all the politics that goes with Primogen.  That's what I think, anyway.

I never said I disliked the character of Velvet Velour.  But you spoke of Velvet perfecting her 'art'.  I'm sure this was a joke about watching her dance; but VV is just like every other stripper who insists on being called a 'dancer', to salvage what's left of her self-esteem.  She has no art; only the pretense of art.  Perhaps Isaac thought he saw something in her and tried to 'save' her, like he did with Ash.  But instead of reinventing herself after her Embrace, she is still a stripper.  In her poetry, she says, "Father I never knew you, Mother I ran away from you, Sire you forgot me..."  She also refers to Isaac as being "like the father I never had", and speaks of Ash as a step-sibling.  Even if Isaac isn't actually her sire, she has latched onto him as surrogate father figure.  But he never speaks of her at all, only Ash.

I think Isaac has two children he tried to save by Embracing them... and he failed both times.  Talk about dysfunctional families.
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Offline G-Flex

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Re: In the upstairs bathroom at The Asylum...
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2011, 11:20:48 PM »
I remember specific lines of Isaac's dialogue saying that he didn't embrace VV, though.

Offline Rick Gentle

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Re: In the upstairs bathroom at The Asylum...
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2011, 11:53:35 PM »
Mitnick is the same as Imalia in that he's a static character. He's too happy with his lot in life; leave him alone with his computers for eternity and he's as snug as a bug in a rug on drugs.

I think Tung would like to play around with the politics - why else get with Jeanette and screw with Therese? - but he wouldn't want the responsiblity that came with the position. Much more fun to manipulate people from a distance by letting slip just the right kernel of information in just the right ear and watch it ensue. And then sell a bit of counter-information to the opposite side in exchange for a favor, etc, etc. I think he enjoys playing the game, but he doesn't want to be team captain. That's why he's the perfect Nossie - the power behind the throne, but leave the spotlight to Toreador or Ventrue. (And on that note, you'll notice that LaCroix immediately pins the blame for the sarcophagus being stolen on, guess who - the Nosferatu primogen. Of course, it WAS Gary's fault, but I don't think Gary is as quite as clear in where his loyalties lie as LaCroix would like.)

Yes, the comment about Velvet's "art" was mostly a joke, but you can't deny there's a certain... aesthetic... appeal about it.   :cometome:
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Offline VentrueIan

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Re: In the upstairs bathroom at The Asylum...
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2011, 12:10:39 AM »
I have to disagree with the concept of vv as a poseur. I don't think she was embraced to preserve her artistic talent, I think she WAS the art her sire was trying to preserve. She may be talentless and poetry for sure, and deludes herself into thinking she's deep, but you can't tell me you didn't look at her longer then you have most paintings.  :vampwink:
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Offline _username

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Re: In the upstairs bathroom at The Asylum...
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2011, 12:54:33 AM »
Now that you mention it, the Toreador clanbook has several referrences to clan members who consider themselves walking pieces of art.  Almost without fail, people with that attitude are hopelessly deluded, egotistical and ultimately useless and forgettable.
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Offline PGM1961

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Re: In the upstairs bathroom at The Asylum...
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2011, 12:56:28 AM »
I remember specific lines of Isaac's dialogue saying that he didn't embrace VV, though.

Proof please.  I don't remember Isaac mentioning VV once.

Yes, the comment about Velvet's "art" was mostly a joke, but you can't deny there's a certain... aesthetic... appeal about it.   :cometome:
She may be talentless and poetry for sure, and deludes herself into thinking she's deep, but you can't tell me you didn't look at her longer then you have most paintings.  :vampwink:

Heather's better.  That yellow tube top... if she were a real woman, I would have severe trouble looking her in the eye; and that's from someone who prefers a shapely butt over big boobs.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 01:04:11 AM by PGM1961 »
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Offline VentrueIan

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Re: In the upstairs bathroom at The Asylum...
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2011, 12:57:53 AM »
"You've met VV, have you? Of all the Kindred I know, she seems the most alive. She's young still, though - but nonetheless adept. She's not my childe, but she's become like a daughter to me." - Issac
Be it though science, occult, or becoming a living ghost, if one can grasp immortality, I'll find out before the next life. Fuck reincarnation.