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Offline tarulu

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How well Wod is presented in bloodlines?
« on: September 10, 2018, 02:58:08 PM »
bloodlines for sure is a vampire game with 7 playable clans and few others but it also contains other wod creatures and elements.
my question is how well bloodlines show wod? and i don't mean just the theme and horror but i mean how well and correct are sects and clans presented and what about other elements? like ghosts or zombies.



Offline tarulu

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Re: How well Wod is presented in bloodlines?
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2018, 03:19:20 PM »
i start myself.
the dark theme and horror  are very well presented,like wod Manipulation is the main theme for neonates and horror and killings and moral choices can be seen in times like dealing with pisha and masquerade,indeed bloodlines show them very well.
on the matter of clans, Brujah are done well we see at least 3 of them in game and they are well presented same can be said about Malkavians,Toreadors and Nosferatu however on the matter of other 3 things get a little tricky.
Tremere is not bad they get a haven but not much more still they are better than ventrue and Gangrel which are very badly done in my opinion.
the only Gangrels i can remember are the slasher and beckett which you can only talk about your clan to latter.
on other hand the only ventrue is prince and while we do have many interactions with him i don't think he or  interactions are enough to represent the whole clan in proper way.Giovanni is also done well and i think even better than ventrue and gangrel.

sects are done nicely with maybe a little more room for Camarilla to be better.
don't know about other creatures like Hengeyokai



Offline Rubinia

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Re: How well Wod is presented in bloodlines?
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2018, 03:56:45 PM »
Werewolf is nice because he is invincible.
Tricky thing, there are two major plus-sides of WOD Masquarade, as far as I can tell with my limited expierience. Both are more-or-less contrary to each other. I guess it is up to what a fan seeks and expects, anyway.
First, the Masquarade gloomy-moody air of despair. This side I personally rather dislike. It is making the WOD look like in constant depression. A place where you're bound to feel eternal sadness because of fact the world is so cruel. Especially if you're a vampire there. In Bloodlines this kind of attitude is represented by Ash (quite unlucky name for a vampire). The best remark against it is what the PC can say talking with him, goes like: Being vampire is great: you got superpowers, live forever, sleep all day long. During whole gameplay there are marks of this 'over-dark' atmosphere, e.g. with feeding Phisha (not mistake with feeding fish!), Imalia quest, Lily quest (if you are low on Humanity). Tzimitse makings are quite sick, in gore way, and the story behind tape is rather depressive, too. On the other hand, beachside vampires love-story and multiple rather comic remarks during the game make the air not all-serious, like it was in Redemption. So, this aspect of WOD (its darkness) is present, but not so overhelming to drag us down.
Second rather obvious trait here is its delusive air. Idk if its common to all WOD or is limited but to Vampire part of the series. Still, many situations, people and so on do have second, not so obvious meaning. You do something and later on you discover that you were completely wrong with interpretation all way long. Or up to some point. Malcavian PC breaks the bank here, his madness makes quite charming and usefull hints though dialogues. But most of the time you're likely to not notice their deeper (and wiser) meaning. It's very striking expierience during first gameplay or in case of re-play made late enough to not-really-recall the story. This ascpect of Masquarade (delusive, second-meaning structure) I immersely love and prefere it far over the previous, depressive one. Both are in-game waiting there.
I'll tell as far that if game makers/storytellers put too much emphasis on one WOD:M ascpect, they quite eliminate the other one. I guess in a depressive, awfull 'reality' even complex, mistaking illusions are not that much fun.
And there is the last, overlaping trait of WOD:M. It's one big great pastiche. Or maybe patchwork made from scraps, motives, and so on, taken not-so-serious and with much simplicity. It basically consist of different, loose 'pieces' of vampirism-ideas to be found in culture, put together with other culture links so that there's more fun. This linking trait is also in-game, mainly in dialogues. It's a bit clowny, insanely contrary to 'depressive-air' some players may value, yet is brilliant and is necessery.       
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Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: How well Wod is presented in bloodlines?
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2018, 08:13:23 AM »
The whole point of WoD is to be depressive and fatalistic, but I am not really supporting the overall direction that the show is taking. For instance, most of the game mechanics and results are dark for dark's sake and the heavy air of the WoD is just an excuse to indulge in various machinations of the humanity's obscure depths.
Vampires are evil and that is a fact, but the overall absence of those that seek redemption from it is a sign of the franchise taking a rather worrying turn. I always favored kindred such as Christof, VV and even LaCroix simply because they do not give in to the monstrous side and that makes them somewhat sympathetic and relatable, not like the Sabbat with their anarchist rage or some such gizmo that drives them forward... let's just say that I like the chess pieces more than the table.
I perfectly understand Rubinia's sentiment above, I share it to some extent, although I do tend to like the heavy atmosphere, but only as long as it has purpose, not as an enforced prop... in Redemption the overall despair really give shine to Christof's humanity and that is what I like: Byronic heroes in WoD.

Also,+1 Rubinia from me.
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Offline DiamondBorne

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Re: How well Wod is presented in bloodlines?
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2018, 02:22:08 PM »
The only thing that was badly represented are the Sabbat and anything oriental in general.

The Kuei Jin and Chinatown because it is choke full of stereotypical and the lacks cultural research making this subject not aged well.

And the Sabbat because it is easier to simply make a player hates a complete monster instead of questioning themselves everytime they killed one "Did I killed a well intentioned bad guy?" "Maybe he did have a point"

Other than that, you'll never find any better game adaptation as VTMB not only fully respects the source material, it also managed to correctly translate the atmosphere that can only be "feel" by reading the book, into a different kind of interactive media. An impressive feat by itself.

Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: How well Wod is presented in bloodlines?
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2018, 07:51:51 PM »
The only thing that was badly represented are the Sabbat and anything oriental in general.

The Kuei Jin and Chinatown because it is choke full of stereotypical and the lacks cultural research making this subject not aged well.

And the Sabbat because it is easier to simply make a player hates a complete monster instead of questioning themselves everytime they killed one "Did I killed a well intentioned bad guy?" "Maybe he did have a point"

Other than that, you'll never find any better game adaptation as VTMB not only fully respects the source material, it also managed to correctly translate the atmosphere that can only be "feel" by reading the book, into a different kind of interactive media. An impressive feat by itself.

Nicely said.
The reason behind such a bland performance in my humble opinion are the time constraints that Troika had suffered in the later stages of the development. The entire hub of Chinatown is rather an exuberant gallery of shut buildings and the main quest covers most of the locations in the "chapter"... every optional quest is but a quick dalliance mostly happening in a single or two locations. The design choices are just a reflection of this.
Me: "I love lollipops!"
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Offline page

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Re: How well Wod is presented in bloodlines?
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2018, 08:08:49 AM »
My random thoughts.

I really liked how quiet and ominous the world of Bloodlines is. In order to get this gothic/punk feel, gamemakers presented fitting architecture, furnishings, details with pinch of urban decay; anywhere we looked, we've got a grim and slightly twisted version of RL landscape. Streets of L.A. were sparsely populated, the music was mostly downtempo and chilling ambient, solitude loomed behind every corner. All that was done very well and evoked feelings we had as tabletop players.

Of course Bloodlines presented rather mainstream-appealing side of World of Darkness. They didn't hold brake pedal with Sabbat presentation, I'll give them that. King's Way and warrens are sick, pure and simple; but still, they rely on visuals of gore, not the mental torments that are possible only in WoD games. Even our Malkavians, although believable, are somewhat civilised and well-groomed. Grout seemed to cope with his mental issues very well, as far as I remember he even sorta "controlled" voices in his head. Tourette had a troubled past, but ended up being a hot chick we can rescue. All hail you, virtuous fledgling! :)

What's more, Bloodlines didn't delve too much in history nor the occult. It's up to you how you rate it; I'd say it wasn't disregarded completely but merely "scaled down", and I'm cool with that.

Although we don't see Changelings or Mages, I feel there is enough room for mystery to satisfy WoD players. Ed from Ocean House, Mr. Ox and Cab Driver are just a couple examples of ambiguous characters, open to interpretation. They leave the impression that most of WoD secrets are unknown even to us, friggin vampires. And that impression was just spot on. I don't need to see every and each type of fallen creature as long as I feel there are so many secrets out there.

Offline BoxCrayonTales

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Re: How well Wod is presented in bloodlines?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2018, 09:34:24 PM »
I think the game should be judged on its own merits. World of Darkness is not the kind of universe that can be neatly packaged within a CRPG.

World of Darkness is, more or less, as convoluted as a long-running comic book universe. It has gone through numerous rules revisions, retcons, alternate universes, changing writers, etc. It is a mess to keep track of.

Bloodlines is a functional game, at least until Chinatown when the budget clearly ran out. I’d like to see a remaster, but Paradox doesn’t seem willing to pay for the distribution rights from Activision.

Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: How well Wod is presented in bloodlines?
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2018, 08:51:00 AM »
I think the game should be judged on its own merits. World of Darkness is not the kind of universe that can be neatly packaged within a CRPG.

World of Darkness is, more or less, as convoluted as a long-running comic book universe. It has gone through numerous rules revisions, retcons, alternate universes, changing writers, etc. It is a mess to keep track of.

Bloodlines is a functional game, at least until Chinatown when the budget clearly ran out. I’d like to see a remaster, but Paradox doesn’t seem willing to pay for the distribution rights from Activision.

Yes indeed, but it is based on a larger picture thus a degree of judgment is in order. WoD is similar to Shadowrun in that regard, but the latter's digital entries are more numerous and posseses a high degree of quality in terms of storytelling and atmosphere.
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Offline BoxCrayonTales

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Re: How well Wod is presented in bloodlines?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2018, 04:28:58 PM »
I think the game should be judged on its own merits. World of Darkness is not the kind of universe that can be neatly packaged within a CRPG.

World of Darkness is, more or less, as convoluted as a long-running comic book universe. It has gone through numerous rules revisions, retcons, alternate universes, changing writers, etc. It is a mess to keep track of.

Bloodlines is a functional game, at least until Chinatown when the budget clearly ran out. I’d like to see a remaster, but Paradox doesn’t seem willing to pay for the distribution rights from Activision.

Yes indeed, but it is based on a larger picture thus a degree of judgment is in order. WoD is similar to Shadowrun in that regard, but the latter's digital entries are more numerous and posseses a high degree of quality in terms of storytelling and atmosphere.

World of Darkness is a very weird universe. I think Bloodlines did as well as it could with what it had to work with.

Shadowrun seems, I do not know, more marketable? Supposedly World of Darkness was big in the 90s but now is not even listed in the top best selling RPGs according to most public market research.

The next most recent primarily vampire-themed CRPG games were Vampyr and Bloodlust Shadowhunter.

Go figure.

Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: How well Wod is presented in bloodlines?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2018, 05:31:15 PM »
I think the game should be judged on its own merits. World of Darkness is not the kind of universe that can be neatly packaged within a CRPG.

World of Darkness is, more or less, as convoluted as a long-running comic book universe. It has gone through numerous rules revisions, retcons, alternate universes, changing writers, etc. It is a mess to keep track of.

Bloodlines is a functional game, at least until Chinatown when the budget clearly ran out. I’d like to see a remaster, but Paradox doesn’t seem willing to pay for the distribution rights from Activision.

Yes indeed, but it is based on a larger picture thus a degree of judgment is in order. WoD is similar to Shadowrun in that regard, but the latter's digital entries are more numerous and posseses a high degree of quality in terms of storytelling and atmosphere.

World of Darkness is a very weird universe. I think Bloodlines did as well as it could with what it had to work with.

Shadowrun seems, I do not know, more marketable? Supposedly World of Darkness was big in the 90s but now is not even listed in the top best selling RPGs according to most public market research.

The next most recent primarily vampire-themed CRPG games were Vampyr and Bloodlust Shadowhunter.

Go figure.

No one ever said that Bloodlines was bad or something similar, this thread focuses on the quality of the presented material and the judging of Bloodlines for what it is rather than on what was supposed to present sounds fair. Bloodlines had to inherently bend several rules of WoD so a game could be made, nothing scandalous there - every other universe does so when they adapt to the video game franchise.

The reason I compared WoD to Shadowrun was the loose character of it when it comes to writing and lore - both share similar themes also, with their respective differences. A shadowrunner living on his own, constantly running away from the corporations is similar to a life of vampire, but the latter has a more private tone to it with the beast and damnation mechanic.

I do not need to go and figure anything - the popularity of Shadowrun (plus it has 3 modern games not counting the console entries) over WoD is the result of rising interest in cyberpunk in the past decade where the interest in vampire steadily vanes. The pendulum will swing back eventually, but that is an entirely different topic.
Me: "I love lollipops!"
WoD ST: "We don't allow lollipops, because we are too dark!"

Offline Nanaloma

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Re: How well Wod is presented in bloodlines?
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2018, 03:55:05 AM »
Werewolf is nice because he is invincible.
Tricky thing, there are two major plus-sides of WOD Masquarade, as far as I can tell with my limited expierience. Both are more-or-less contrary to each other. I guess it is up to what a fan seeks and expects, anyway.
First, the Masquarade gloomy-moody air of despair. This side I personally rather dislike. It is making the WOD look like in constant depression. A place where you're bound to feel eternal sadness because of fact the world is so cruel. Especially if you're a vampire there. In Bloodlines this kind of attitude is represented by Ash (quite unlucky name for a vampire). The best remark against it is what the PC can say talking with him, goes like: Being vampire is great: you got superpowers, live forever, sleep all day long. During whole gameplay there are marks of this 'over-dark' atmosphere, e.g. with feeding Phisha (not mistake with feeding fish!), Imalia quest, Lily quest (if you are low on Humanity). Tzimitse makings are quite sick, in gore way, and the story behind tape is rather depressive, too. On the other hand, beachside vampires love-story and multiple rather comic remarks during the game make the air not all-serious, like it was in Redemption. So, this aspect of WOD (its darkness) is present, but not so overhelming to drag us down.
Second rather obvious trait here is its delusive air. Idk if its common to all WOD or is limited but to Vampire part of the series. Still, many situations, people and so on do have second, not so obvious meaning. You do something and later on you discover that you were completely wrong with interpretation all way long. Or up to some point. Malcavian PC breaks the bank here, his madness makes quite charming and usefull hints though dialogues. But most of the time you're likely to not notice their deeper (and wiser) meaning. It's very striking expierience during first gameplay or in case of re-play made late enough to not-really-recall the story. This ascpect of Masquarade (delusive, second-meaning structure) I immersely love and prefere it far over the previous, depressive one. Both are in-game waiting there.
I'll tell as far that if game makers/storytellers put too much emphasis on one WOD:M ascpect, they quite eliminate the other one. I guess in a depressive, awfull 'reality' even complex, mistaking illusions are not that much fun.
And there is the last, overlaping trait of WOD:M. It's one big great pastiche. Or maybe patchwork made from scraps, motives, and so on, taken not-so-serious and with much simplicity. It basically consist of different, loose 'pieces' of vampirism-ideas to be found in culture, put together with other culture links so that there's more fun. This linking trait is also in-game, mainly in dialogues. It's a bit clowny, insanely contrary to 'depressive-air' some players may value, yet is brilliant and is necessery.     

Ash and the unfortunate name:  true, but he was likely named after Victoria Ash (Prince of Atlanta, I believe) and later offered Prince of New York City but refused). 

Offline Rubinia

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Re: How well Wod is presented in bloodlines?
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2018, 05:25:55 PM »
Ash and the unfortunate name:  true, but he was likely named after Victoria Ash (Prince of Atlanta, I believe) and later offered Prince of New York City but refused).
Do I get it right? There is WOD Masquarade reality were more than one vampire named "Ash"? Wow. That means the makers have deeper sense of humour I can dream of reaching! That is having named my character Caries.
Btw, I'm a bit surprised that the Fledgeling can't actually become (claim) Prince title him/herself. It just looks plainly obvious, given the amount of sheer power we obtain during the playthrough.
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